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OfflineAll We Perceive
Sea Cucumber
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Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 10,491
Last seen: 10 months, 22 days
Re: Not answering the door [Re: Stonehenge]
    #12598820 - 05/20/10 03:17 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

All I was illustrating was the ample authority, per your request, suggesting that a misdemeanor warrant is not a bar to entering your premises to arrest you which seemed to be the topic of debate.  Just because one poster suggested that a cop came by, banged on the window, and left does not seem to be very definitive.  In any event, I'm not quite certain to what "caveats" you refer.  I generously provided case law on the subject from numerous states.  Granted, I did not bother to find all 50 states.  If you feel that I was errant in some way, feel free to quote away.


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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak

Edited by All We Perceive (05/20/10 03:19 PM)

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Anonymous #1

Re: Not answering the door [Re: All We Perceive]
    #12598861 - 05/20/10 03:25 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

yah i'm not offering my experience as proof of anything, just simply what it was- my experience. another note; the warrant was for contempt of court... not sure if that is felony or misdemeanor. i failed to appear on felony charges though so i'd assume felony.

Edited by Anonymous (05/20/10 03:27 PM)

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Invisiblefastfred
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Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
Re: Not answering the door [Re: All We Perceive]
    #12598960 - 05/20/10 03:41 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Fred you are a jackass. I will not answer you again or read any of your posts. If we have an ignore feature here i will surely put you on it.




Yes, there is an ignore feature.  Please use it.  Then I won't have to constantly try to spare your feelings when I comment on your asinine posts.


-FF

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Not answering the door [Re: Raw]
    #12599156 - 05/20/10 04:13 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

Well, awp, let me quote your own text

"[A]n arrest warrant-even for a misdemeanor-constitutes “authority of law” which allows the police the limited power to enter a residence for an arrest, as long as (1) the entry is reasonable, (2) the entry is not a pretext for conducting other unauthorized searches or investigations, (3) the police have probable cause to believe the person named in the arrest warrant is an actual resident of the home, and (4) said named person is actually present at the time of the entry."

You don't see all those caveats and limitations? Let me quote you some more then.

"if the police know of the location of the felon when they obtain an arrest warrant, the additional burden of obtaining a search warrant at the same time is miniscule. The inconvenience **1653  of obtaining such a warrant does not increase significantly when an outstanding arrest warrant already exists. In this case, for example, Agent Goodowens knew the address of the house to be searched two days in advance, and planned the raid from the federal courthouse in Atlanta where, we are informed, three full-time magistrates were on duty. In routine search cases such as this, the short time required to obtain a search warrant from a magistrate will seldom hinder efforts to apprehend a felon. Finally, if a magistrate is not nearby, a telephonic search warrant can usually be obtained. See Fed.Rule Crim.Proc. 41(c)(1), (2)."

This is all from your own posts. So you see, an arrest warrant and a search warrant are two different things and are not synonymous. An arrest warrant does not automatically give the right to search or to enter a residence. Whether they can do that or not depends on circumstances. If your goal was to show that any arrest warrant gave the right to the police to break in looking for the one named in the warrant, you have not done that. I will grant that in some cases they can do it. But not all. Fair enough?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineAll We Perceive
Sea Cucumber
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Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 10,491
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Re: Not answering the door [Re: Stonehenge]
    #12599216 - 05/20/10 04:25 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

You're completely taking my post out of context. 

Quote:

ell, awp, let me quote your own text

"[A]n arrest warrant-even for a misdemeanor-constitutes %u201Cauthority of law%u201D which allows the police the limited power to enter a residence for an arrest, as long as (1) the entry is reasonable, (2) the entry is not a pretext for conducting other unauthorized searches or investigations, (3) the police have probable cause to believe the person named in the arrest warrant is an actual resident of the home, and (4) said named person is actually present at the time of the entry."




We were talking about one's own residence so obviously #3 isn't a "limitation" because by it being your place, obviously you're the resident.  Basically the quoted language comes down to entry must be reasonable and there must be a reasonable belief that the person is on site.  Quite simply, those two "limitations" are not really that limiting.  Surely you don't mean to be implying that i'm saying that police can raid any house they want whenever they want.

Moreover,

Quote:

"if the police know of the location of the felon when they obtain an arrest warrant, the additional burden of obtaining a search warrant at the same time is miniscule. The inconvenience **1653  of obtaining such a warrant does not increase significantly when an outstanding arrest warrant already exists. In this case, for example, Agent Goodowens knew the address of the house to be searched two days in advance, and planned the raid from the federal courthouse in Atlanta where, we are informed, three full-time magistrates were on duty. In routine search cases such as this, the short time required to obtain a search warrant from a magistrate will seldom hinder efforts to apprehend a felon. Finally, if a magistrate is not nearby, a telephonic search warrant can usually be obtained. See Fed.Rule Crim.Proc. 41(c)(1), (2)."

This is all from your own posts. So you see, an arrest warrant and a search warrant are two different things and are not synonymous. An arrest warrant does not automatically give the right to search or to enter a residence. Whether they can do that or not depends on circumstances. If your goal was to show that any arrest warrant gave the right to the police to break in looking for the one named in the warrant, you have not done that. I will grant that in some cases they can do it. But not all. Fair enough?





As I pointed out above the first paragraph is quoting a case where the police, after receiving a tip, raided a premises that is not the named person's residence.  I merely thought that case would be of interest as I pointed out above and is not directly relevant on the topic here.  If you bothered reading my post above, you would know that.  I fully admit that there is a substantive difference between a search warrant and an arrest warrant; however, the distinction between a search warrant and arrest warrant plays little difference here because we aren't talking about search warrants. 

When I invited you to respond to my posts above by "quoting away," I did not invite you to quote my above posts completely out of context at your leisure.  Please say something substantive?


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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak

Edited by All We Perceive (05/20/10 04:26 PM)

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Invisiblefastfred
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Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
Re: Not answering the door [Re: All We Perceive]
    #12599436 - 05/20/10 04:55 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

> Please say something substantive?

Stonehead has a long history here of repeatedly arguing the same points, over time and in different threads, even after he's been definitively been proven wrong and asked not to repeat the disinformation.

He also likes to straw man, side track, red herring, and otherwise completely ignore the opposing argument in order to keep spouting nonsense.

It's best to not feed him and only shoot him down when he actually makes a gross representation of law that could harm someone.


-FF

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OfflineAll We Perceive
Sea Cucumber
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Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 10,491
Last seen: 10 months, 22 days
Re: Not answering the door [Re: fastfred]
    #12599633 - 05/20/10 05:27 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

Hmm.  Good to know.  I'll keep that in mind for the future.


--------------------


"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak

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Anonymous #2

Re: Not answering the door [Re: All We Perceive]
    #12639676 - 05/27/10 04:12 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

People are stupid. You never have to let a police officer into your home. Unless they come in with guns draw, through the windows and doors; sorry.

It is your option to talk to them, but lets be honest. If you DO NOT TALK, their is no confession. No Confession means the case would have to be proven by evidence, and witnesses in an official court case.

So really the only time you ever want to talk to a cop is if it is something so marginal it doesn't matter. Any other time shut the fuck up.

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InvisibleKhaos


Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 183
Re: Not answering the door [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #12642330 - 05/27/10 10:25 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Depends on what they are after you for. If they want you bad enough they can just say your suspected of something related to terrorism.

According to the patriot act they can do almost whatever they want if its related to terrorism. However if they go this far its probably not going to be for grass, mushrooms,....Etc.

In the case it is something that they go that far to get you for it will surely be feds and not your local police and the feds will likely get you eventually no matter what.

But you should never under any circumstances answer your door for law enforcement or talk to them without a good lawyer present. I would expect this to be common sense.


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"Surely all Americans have the right to give their money only to those causes which they support. But what kind of society has this created? A society where the ignorant reign. A society where enlightened must hold their tongues. A nation whose politicians must profess half-hearted devotion to an ancient fable or face the disastrous consequences of speaking their true mind." -Chris Mccandless 1987

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