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Invisiblebeardedliberty
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Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating
    #12559628 - 05/14/10 12:49 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Hi everyone, I'm new to this site, and to magic mushroom growing. I've done a lot of reading (read almost all of the super handy documents on this site, plus the MMGG) and currently waiting for spores and other supplies to arrive. I plan on using PF Tek for my first grow.

So I had this idea, why not go ahead and prepare some jars for incubation, and incubate them, without inoculating them first. If they are contaminated, this will become obvious before long. Then, the ones which do not get contaminated can then be inoculated and others can be re-sterilized before inoculation.

Is contamination more likely without inoculation? Should I just wait until I get my spores to prepare my jars?

Thanks in advance for answers, and thanks for the awesome documentation that this site has developed and made available.

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Offlinemadi
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: beardedliberty]
    #12559640 - 05/14/10 12:52 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You can make test jars to see if your sterilization is ok but I wouldn't use them after some time.

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OfflineGiggle_Grower
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: madi]
    #12559734 - 05/14/10 01:11 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

incubating is a bad idea in general, increases contams. room temp is perfect.  All substrate will be contamed on a long enough time-line. noc ur jars up and keep one aside for a control. if ur worried about ur sterile tek, then make a few practice jars while u wait for ur spores to arrive, than make fresh jars for them.


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Noobs! The best tool here is up top to the right. Don't  forget about it. Just type your question in!:cool:
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Offlinemadi
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: Giggle_Grower]
    #12559781 - 05/14/10 01:19 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Imo incubating is just a term for growing the mycelium, not about temperatures. You can incubate in room temps too. Someone correct me if Im wrong. English is not my main.

Edited by madi (05/14/10 01:19 AM)

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OfflineGiggle_Grower
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: madi]
    #12559807 - 05/14/10 01:24 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

we generally use the term colonizing for the myc germination and growth phase and incubating for increasing temps. tho sometime noobs get confused, i did back in the day. i think the OP needs to clarify what he/she meant.


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I'm  always interested in trades.
The Awesome Purple Mystics
Noobs! The best tool here is up top to the right. Don't  forget about it. Just type your question in!:cool:
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Offlinemadi
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: Giggle_Grower]
    #12559935 - 05/14/10 02:00 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Ok good to know. But if the conditions are already optimal wouldn't that be incubating the mycelium? Or maybe it involves the maintaing to incubate.

[To incubate: To maintain (eggs, organisms, or living tissue) at optimal environmental conditions for growth and development.]

[incubate - grow under conditions that promote development]

Edited by madi (05/14/10 02:02 AM)

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OfflineGiggle_Grower
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: madi]
    #12559966 - 05/14/10 02:09 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

lol perhaps i need to read up on English myself, tho im pretty sure my defintions still apply for mycology. i guess you could say the terms are interchangeable.


--------------------
I'm  always interested in trades.
The Awesome Purple Mystics
Noobs! The best tool here is up top to the right. Don't  forget about it. Just type your question in!:cool:
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OfflineStainBlue
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: beardedliberty]
    #12560085 - 05/14/10 02:46 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You do not want to let your jars sit for extended periods of time just to see if they are contaminated. Since the jars are not air tight when sterilized they will contaminate eventually. Even canned/jarred food from the supermarket will spoil after a while and those containers are air tight/vacumm sealed.

You could do control jars as was mentioned but that too doesn't really do you any good. You could noc up 5 brf jars and have 1 as a control. The 5 brf jars could colonize completely but that 6th jar is going to contaminate eventually anyway so doing control jars doesn't really accomplish anything other than waste material.

The only productive thing to do is prepare the jars you need, noc em up, and visually inspect them from time to time during colonization. You will know when something is contaminated just by it's appearences or smell, and you won't need control jars to accomplish that.


--------------------
Peace,
StainBlue

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Invisiblebeardedliberty
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: Giggle_Grower]
    #12561552 - 05/14/10 12:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Giggle_Grower said:
we generally use the term colonizing for the myc germination and growth phase and incubating for increasing temps. tho sometime noobs get confused, i did back in the day. i think the OP needs to clarify what he/she meant.




I guess I did actually mean colonizing, I was looking for a better term, but it's hard to quickly reference all that stuff I read. :crazy:

But OK, you guys have talked me out of trying this...I will just be patient and wait for my spores to arrive.

So speaking of incubating, my room temp is about 73-75°F, is that adequate temp for colonizing my jars? I have an aquarium heater, and was going to try the doubled-up plastic box with water in between and the heater in the bottom box method. If this isn't necessary that would save me some trouble. :smile:

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Offlinemadi
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: beardedliberty]
    #12561601 - 05/14/10 12:19 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Temp is perfect forget that heater.

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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: madi]
    #12561664 - 05/14/10 12:35 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Never re-sterilize contaminated jars.
Do Not use an incubator. 70-75 degrees is perfect for colonization.
IMO you should just make the jars when your spores arrive. Don't try to be cleaver on your first grow or you WILL fuck up. GUARANTEED. Just do what the tek tells you to. good luck. peace

edit- My jars get up to 82 degrees all the time because I live in the desert so anywhere from 70-82 is fine but try to keep it below 76ish  so bacteria can't grow.


--------------------

Edited by Grumpyorc (05/14/10 12:37 PM)

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Offlinemadi
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: Grumpyorc]
    #12561874 - 05/14/10 01:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Bacteria can grow below 76.

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OfflineMountrakker
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: madi]
    #12561925 - 05/14/10 01:31 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

hell i have 1 brf cake lost to red/pinkish bacteria out of 5..
and it always happens because i cant wait that long(even with LC!) and incubate in about 80-82F (at times 85)

i want mushies in 3 weeks and i loose on bacterial growth

~75F is much safer

bacteria can grow indeed in lower temperatures, but it seems the pyrophylic bacteria are the ones we mostly encounter in those temps above 80F


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Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see. Arthur Schopenhauer

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OfflineGrumpyorc
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: Mountrakker]
    #12562074 - 05/14/10 01:55 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mountrakker said:
hell i have 1 brf cake lost to red/pinkish bacteria out of 5..
and it always happens because i cant wait that long(even with LC!) and incubate in about 80-82F (at times 85)

i want mushies in 3 weeks and i loose on bacterial growth

~75F is much safer

bacteria can grow indeed in lower temperatures, but it seems the pyrophylic bacteria are the ones we mostly encounter in those temps above 80F



:thumbup:

If your that impatient try using LC on WBS and then just casing it and popping it in your Shotgun FC. I'v never straight cased it, I spawn, but WBS jars are much faster then BRF jars IME.


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Invisiblebeardedliberty
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: madi]
    #12562438 - 05/14/10 03:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

madi said:
Temp is perfect forget that heater.




OK, will do. Thanks. I guess people in colder climates use that sort of thing?

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OfflineGrumpyorc
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: beardedliberty]
    #12562475 - 05/14/10 03:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

beardedliberty said:
Quote:

madi said:
Temp is perfect forget that heater.




OK, will do. Thanks. I guess people in colder climates use that sort of thing?



Correct


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Invisiblebeardedliberty
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: Grumpyorc]
    #12562664 - 05/14/10 03:37 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Grumpyorc said:
Never re-sterilize contaminated jars.




That wasn't my intention - I would have dumped what was in them and started from scratch. But at this point I see that I might as well just go ahead and wait for the spores, then inoculate them after prep/sterilization.

Quote:

Grumpyorc said:
Do Not use an incubator. 70-75 degrees is perfect for colonization.
IMO you should just make the jars when your spores arrive. Don't try to be cleaver on your first grow or you WILL fuck up. GUARANTEED. Just do what the tek tells you to. good luck. peace




Thanks but I need science, not luck! That's why I'm here. :wink:

Quote:

Grumpyorc said:
edit- My jars get up to 82 degrees all the time because I live in the desert so anywhere from 70-82 is fine but try to keep it below 76ish  so bacteria can't grow.




So the more light & heat, the more bacteria, eh? I will try to avoid both as much as possible.

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Offlinemadi
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: beardedliberty]
    #12562719 - 05/14/10 03:47 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Light doesn't matter. Just don't put them to direct sunlight.

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OfflineGrumpyorc
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: madi]
    #12565767 - 05/15/10 02:50 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Indeed colonizing in light does not harm them. Actually it gets them used to a light rhythm which makes them pin faster later. Anyone wants to argue with that go look at RR's notes. He makes a clear point of it. good luck


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Testing for infection by incubating without inoculating [Re: Grumpyorc]
    #12565808 - 05/15/10 03:04 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)


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