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MushroomOD
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Registered: 03/10/10
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PF jar smell?
#12555185 - 05/13/10 12:39 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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My Pf jars smell a little, not strong or sour, but there's a definite odor to them. My question is could this be the colonizing mycelium or is it contamination? Also, it's been 6 days since i knocked up these jars and there's still no growth. Should I be worried?
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Nialwi
ZeMadScientist



Registered: 02/22/08
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Why are you smelling the jars? 
It's probably just the mycelium and you should start seeing growth within the next few days. it wont be a thick white until its grown a few weeks. at first it will be a grayish white, but dont let that worry you. if its purple or green then you've got problems.
just makes sure they stay in the dark around 75-90 degrees. 85-90 for best growth
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lkelly2006
lkelly2006


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Re: PF jar smell? [Re: Nialwi]
#12555304 - 05/13/10 01:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nialwi said: Why are you smelling the jars? 
It's probably just the mycelium and you should start seeing growth within the next few days. it wont be a thick white until its grown a few weeks. at first it will be a grayish white, but dont let that worry you. if its purple or green then you've got problems.
just makes sure they stay in the dark around 75-90 degrees. 85-90 for best growth
90 degrees! That seems a bit high to me. I've always been instructed to keep them no higher than 82 F.
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windex
old hand
Registered: 06/27/01
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Holy cow, 90F 82? WTF are you guys getting this ancient info from?! If you letting your jars sit at 90F the internal tempurature is ~112F At 82 your still well into the 90s!
Let them colonize ~75.
Edited by windex (05/13/10 02:01 PM)
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Nyawinge



Registered: 03/17/10
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Re: PF jar smell? [Re: windex]
#12555653 - 05/13/10 02:12 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
windex said: Holy cow, 90F 82? WTF are you guys getting this ancient info from?! If you letting your jars sit at 90F the internal tempurature is ~112F At 82 your still well into the 90s!
Let them colonize ~75.
You want an internal temp of around 82-84 degrees, 90 is waaayyy too high. Also, they don't need to be in the dark- PF jars will colonize just fine in ambient light
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ChronicCluster
Lord Cephalopod is Reborn!




Registered: 04/28/10
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Re: PF jar smell? [Re: Nyawinge]
#12556419 - 05/13/10 04:35 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
*Incubating dark is another thing in Paul Stamets 'The Mushroom Cultivator' that needs to go away. The old advice of "incubate in total darkness" is bunk. Those words were written by Stamets in TMC 20 years ago, and he disavows that advice today. There is no harm or benefit from keeping jars in the dark. Expose them to normal room lighting from day one. There is no reason at all to ever have your mycelia in the dark. Darkness will only delay pinning. If you give light from day one, your yields will go up, and you won't face overlay problems. I've found no benefit or harm from allowing the grain jars to be exposed to light from day one. If a few pins form in the grains, it is actually a good thing. Contrary to popular belief, a few pins in the grains can be spawned right into the manure or straw (or used in grain to grain transfers) and they do not rot or otherwise cause contamination. There is evidence they actually help to give a faster, more uniform pinset in the eventual flushes. Stamets believes it's the hormones or other chemical triggers in the pins that do this. Exposing light from day one, one jar out of a hundred will make an early pin or two, but I simply spawn those pins right into bulk substrate along with the grains with zero ill effects. (In other words, small pins don't contaminate when spawned to bulk along with the grains). Twenty years ago, Stamets wrote in TMC to "incubate in total darkness" and people stick to that as if they were the words of god. However, stamets no longer teaches incubation in darkness, and I agree. If you visit fungi perfect, you'll see 10,000 square feet of incubation area, with 8' fluorescent tubes lighting the entire area for ten to twelve hours per day. Of course myc will grow in the presents of light. IME myc grows faster in the absence of light also in nature myc colonizing substrate is most always not exposed to light so when we do not know for sure we will try to mimic nature which IMHO is the intelligent thing to do. Paul is a pioneer and is always learning as are we and things (ideas) will change again as we begin to really understand better what nature has given us. LIGHTING COLONIZATION
*And I've been trying to correct that disinformation for years. It's all based on a chart somebody mailed to stamets many years ago showing 86F to be the peak temperature for growth of cubensis on a petri dish, and everybody just accepts it as though Moses carried it down from the mountain on a tablet of stone. However, every single experiment I did to try to duplicate that with extremely accurate temperature monitoring was unable to verify that bogus 86F figure. What I have repeatedly found regardless of strain is that cubensis colonization remains rather flat from about 75F through 81F. Beginning at 83F, the rate of growth falls off sharply. By 86F, growth has slowed down nearly 50% what it was between 75f and 81F. These experiments were conducted on petri dishes that produce little to no heat because of the very thin layer of mycelium. In jars, up to several degrees of heat is produced by the colonizing mycelium; so definitely don't go over 80F to 81F if you're looking for maximum rate of growth. Furthermore, bacteria and thermophilic molds such as Mucor, the black pin mold are stimulated by higher temperatures. Therefore using an incubator set to 86F is certainly favoring bacteria and molds, while slowing down mushroom mycelium growth. Below is a picture of one of my colonization shelves. It sits in my bedroom at normal room temperature and quart jars of rye berries colonize fully in ten days, and pf jars colonize fully in 14 to 21 days, but usually closer to 14. How often do we see posts where people have incubators set at 86F, and they're asking why their jars aren't colonized after four to five weeks, and they have large spots of yellow liquid forming? The liquid is metabolites that the mycelium secretes in response to stress, usually from competitor molds and/or bacteria. What has happened, is they've slowed down the mycelium while stimulating the competitors. COLONIZATION
All of that is from RR and can be found here. Hope this helps with the temp and ambient light questions. I don't know about the smell though.... I'd watch for signs of contam. sorry.
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Chlawre
Amateur



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I've had smell before, kind of weird, hard to describe. It's never ended up being anything but watch your jars. Also incubate at around 75, jars will be warmer internally.
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Mountrakker
r2d2



Registered: 12/28/09
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you will soon be able to distinguish different smells according to what is growing in there, definitely the best is the mushroomy one too sweet smell is mostly bacteria, and mold also smells distinctively, most of us have encountered green mold on fruit a strange non-mushroomy smell often has visible baddies to support it
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Breakfast Crew
Cheerios



Registered: 01/20/09
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It's funny because my first chem lab teacher in high school told me NEVER SMELL ALIEN SUBSTANCES. Visual inspections can save your health.
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zigzag
Eating Wolf Pussy

Registered: 12/19/07
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maybe you are smelling your lips?
try washing your mustache...
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SomeGuy
I feel better now :)


Registered: 04/18/10
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Re: PF jar smell? [Re: zigzag]
#12557114 - 05/13/10 06:35 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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of course darkness isn't neccissary, but If you have a prob. with pinnig before colonization, thats from light. Also certain mushroom flies won't lay eggs in the dark, so it can save your cakes, if you see flies, put them in the dark. Generally in the light is fine in most situations
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Fluffheads420
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Re: PF jar smell? [Re: SomeGuy]
#12557480 - 05/13/10 07:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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when i birthed my cakes, they smelled like mushies to me...
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Mountrakker
r2d2



Registered: 12/28/09
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zigzag - huge lol, cool pic!
it is true, by sniffing it you're inviting whatever released toxic substances the host of your cake holds, and they can dangerous when there are pathogenic agents involved, but since you cannot really tell unless you send it to a lab for identification, let your eyes do the work
smell is another key element to identify contamination just give your fully white colonized cakes a sniff when you birth them and rinse under running water(RR style),they should all have the distinctive mushroomy smell
if there is funky coloring red, green, brown, black, yellow etc dont bother sniffing it, just toss it (for cubensis)
-------------------- Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see. Arthur Schopenhauer
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MushroomOD
Stranger

Registered: 03/10/10
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Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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I'm not sure if what i'm smelling is "mushroomy". There's no visible growth yet, and it doesn't smell real foul so I'm just waiting i guess. Is it normal not to see colonization after 1 week?
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Mountrakker
r2d2



Registered: 12/28/09
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was it multispore solution or liquid LC? i strongly recommend liquid culture with honey, pretty easy if you have a digital scale measure 4ml honey and 100ml distilled water, -otherwise a half full teaspoon of honey. pressurecook it for about 30m (other recommend less) and inject spores from syringe..
brf cakes inoculated with LC show results in ~75F in 3-4 days, and massive! i have 5 brf cakes and its been 7 days and its >70% colonized!
to return to your question, for multispore solution 7-12 days should be enough for any sign of growth, if 2 weeks pass and you see nothing, something went wrong
-------------------- Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see. Arthur Schopenhauer
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8joker
Raptor Hendrix


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 305
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Probably the smell of cooked BRF, my jars had that too. Growth should only begin being visible after about a week, so it may be that your jars are just slow or you inoculated towards the center of the jar instead of the walls.
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Nyawinge



Registered: 03/17/10
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Re: PF jar smell? [Re: SomeGuy]
#12577806 - 05/17/10 08:10 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
paducahovoids said: of course darkness isn't neccissary, but If you have a prob. with pinnig before colonization, thats from light. Also certain mushroom flies won't lay eggs in the dark, so it can save your cakes, if you see flies, put them in the dark. Generally in the light is fine in most situations
Never heard of mushroom flies....
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andymc
cocoa beetles from zanzibar



Registered: 11/25/09
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Re: PF jar smell? [Re: Nyawinge]
#12577929 - 05/17/10 09:06 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nyawinge said: Never heard of mushroom flies....
Count yourself lucky then
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Nyawinge



Registered: 03/17/10
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Re: PF jar smell? [Re: andymc]
#12578074 - 05/17/10 09:50 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Indeed, hopefully won't have to deal with those buggers anytime soon....
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Pscientist
KushKaptain




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Re: PF jar smell? [Re: Nyawinge]
#12578259 - 05/17/10 10:39 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Theyre bitches, and its terrible to watch them walk all over your mushrooms with little you can do about it..
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SomeGuy
I feel better now :)


Registered: 04/18/10
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Quote:
Pscientist said: Theyre bitches, and its terrible to watch them walk all over your mushrooms with little you can do about it..
one thing I've discovered; if you dunk your cakes for 48 hours, the flies and maggots drown. The eggs hatch and then drown panty hose over the top of your colonizing jars and terrarium air holes. Fly paper near the terrarium.
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Pscientist
KushKaptain




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Re: PF jar smell? [Re: SomeGuy]
#12578406 - 05/17/10 11:29 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
paducahovoids said:
Quote:
Pscientist said: Theyre bitches, and its terrible to watch them walk all over your mushrooms with little you can do about it..
one thing I've discovered; if you dunk your cakes for 48 hours, the flies and maggots drown. The eggs hatch and then drown panty hose over the top of your colonizing jars and terrarium air holes. Fly paper near the terrarium.
It hit a monotub of mine, I had no clue what to do at the time..
Never got them on cakes.. But the fly paper does sound like a good idea.
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SomeGuy
I feel better now :)


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They WILL crawl right in the top of your colonizing jars, and diq through your filter layer. These "knats" can apparently smell myc. from 2 miles says TMC
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Pscientist
KushKaptain




Registered: 11/13/09
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Re: PF jar smell? [Re: SomeGuy]
#12578615 - 05/17/10 12:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thats pretty scary.. Im glad I have Only seen em once, then moved
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