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 Psil
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 132
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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 Re: h202 hydrogen peroxide quick questions  [Re: andymc]
#12547218 - 05/12/10 06:31 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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By watched I mean they appear on "watch lists" like the UN Red List and DEA List. Hydrogen peroxide is not on either of those so no worries.
For anyone interested: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45007 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEA_list_of_chemicals
Most of the other ingredients used home made bomb manufacture like Acetone (Acetone + H202 = Acetone Peroxide) or Nitric Acid and Sulfuric Acid (add to OTC cough suppressant Glycerol gives Nitroglycerin) are all on there as is hydrochloric acid which was also an ingredient in the London Bombs.
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Nanoid
See lost a seat You bend this
Registered: 03/30/10
Posts: 711
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: h202 hydrogen peroxide quick questions [Re: Psil]
#12547278 - 05/12/10 07:02 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psil said:
Quote:
Nanoid said:
I mix h2o2, then let it sit for a few hours. Then once I sterilize it, the heat breaks down the h202 and just leaves h20, ready for inoculation.
The LIGHT breaks it down. This is something to keep in mind when diluting 6% to 3% as decomposition is fairly rapid. Great idea about using it in syringes though, I will defiantly be trying that out.
Also can we clear up this nonsense about hydrogen peroxide and bombs. It is NOT a watched chemical and sales are not monitored. If you buy a bottle everyday for a month they might start asking questions but apart from that I promise you, they will not care.
Both heat and light break it down. Along with other 'contaminates' which speed up the process. When I mix it in with BRF and verm, then heat it, h2o2 loses all stability and leaves behind nice plain old water.
Quote:
Decreased Stability
# Hydrogen peroxide is a very stable chemical. When hydrogen peroxide decomposes and looses stability, it releases oxygen. One factor that reduces the stability of hydrogen peroxide is contamination. Hydrogen peroxide that has been diluted with water is considered contaminated hydrogen peroxide and it looses stability quickly. Hydrogen peroxide which has been diluted with water has stabilizing ingredients added to it in order to offset the effects of the water. Heating H2O2 also causes loss in stability. Unlike diluting hydrogen peroxide with water, heating hydrogen peroxide causes violent loss in stability and increased pressures. Hydrogen peroxide decomposes to oxygen and water when it is heated and then cooled. Storing hydrogen peroxide in hot temperatures without proper ventilation can cause rapid loss of stability and can be dangerous.
http://www.ehow.com/list_6187449_effects-heating-h2o2-stability.html
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Edited by Nanoid (05/12/10 07:04 AM)
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 Khaos
Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 183
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Re: h202 hydrogen peroxide quick questions [Re: Psil]
#12547293 - 05/12/10 07:08 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Those lists seem to only list DEA controlled chemicals used for the manufacturing of controlled substances.
As many chemicals used in explosive manufacturing that I am POSITIVE are watched and regulated are not on those lists.
Therefor it is only really relevant to the United States and only items that have use in substance manufacturing, not explosive manufacturing.
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"Surely all Americans have the right to give their money only to those causes which they support. But what kind of society has this created? A society where the ignorant reign. A society where enlightened must hold their tongues. A nation whose politicians must profess half-hearted devotion to an ancient fable or face the disastrous consequences of speaking their true mind." -Chris Mccandless 1987
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Psil
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 132
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: h202 hydrogen peroxide quick questions [Re: Khaos]
#12547461 - 05/12/10 08:21 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nanoid said:
Both heat and light break it down.
Apologies for being unclear. The point of my post was to highlight that light can also decompose it which is something I think a lot of people talking about diluting from 6% to 3% forget. Adding say 500ml of water to a 500ml 6% solution will leave you with a significantly weaker solution than intended when you take into account the light it's exposed and anything in the water you use.
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Dr. Sub
Trip Hazard
Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 626
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: h202 hydrogen peroxide quick questions [Re: Psil]
#12547500 - 05/12/10 08:32 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Chemist Grade (3% and 6%) Hydrogen Peroxide is not watched per say,but anything above 15 percent is definatley flagged at any large purchases (1 litre of this has the potential to make kilos of High explosive. The explosives manufactured using H202 are the organic peroxides, think AP, MEKP, HMTD. They are all easy as piss to make and brilliant fun, but highly sensitive to shock, heat and friction, and some will react with everyday metals and detonate at unexpected moments.
H202 will kill your fungi, it kills pretty much all organic cells, especially at higher concentrations, it liberates highly reactive oxygen free radicals when it decomposes, but as has been mentioned is an excellent disinfectant as once it does its job it leaves only water and oxygen gas behind.
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 I hunt Shrooms
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
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Re: h202 hydrogen peroxide quick questions [Re: Nanoid]
#12548097 - 05/12/10 11:04 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nanoid said:
Quote:
Decreased Stability
# Hydrogen peroxide is a very stable chemical. When hydrogen peroxide decomposes and looses stability, it releases oxygen. One factor that reduces the stability of hydrogen peroxide is contamination. Hydrogen peroxide that has been diluted with water is considered contaminated hydrogen peroxide and it looses stability quickly. Hydrogen peroxide which has been diluted with water has stabilizing ingredients added to it in order to offset the effects of the water. Heating H2O2 also causes loss in stability. Unlike diluting hydrogen peroxide with water, heating hydrogen peroxide causes violent loss in stability and increased pressures. Hydrogen peroxide decomposes to oxygen and water when it is heated and then cooled. Storing hydrogen peroxide in hot temperatures without proper ventilation can cause rapid loss of stability and can be dangerous.
I would imagine loading your jars full of H202 in a hot PC would cause rapid loss of stability and can be dangerous, no? Id guess the BRF itself would break it down if you let them sit a few minutes..but if someone were to try and copy you and didnt, and the H202 hadnt broken down...according to your quote there it may be dangerous. Of course so is crossing the street...just saying.
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teknix
πβπ
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: h202 hydrogen peroxide quick questions [Re: andymc]
#12548252 - 05/12/10 11:39 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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rofl, he said grok.
Thats from the book "Stranger in a Strange Land" or something similar.
Thats where I got it from anyway, sry for offtopic.
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Nanoid
See lost a seat You bend this
Registered: 03/30/10
Posts: 711
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: h202 hydrogen peroxide quick questions [Re: scatmanrav]
#12549059 - 05/12/10 02:15 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psil said:
Quote:
Nanoid said:
Both heat and light break it down.
Apologies for being unclear. The point of my post was to highlight that light can also decompose it which is something I think a lot of people talking about diluting from 6% to 3% forget. Adding say 500ml of water to a 500ml 6% solution will leave you with a significantly weaker solution than intended when you take into account the light it's exposed and anything in the water you use.
Plus, if you checked out that site, it also says mixing H202 with water is one way to destabilize it. So when people dilute it with water, it actually breaks down the h202 and makes it useless for cleaning. Although I dunno how fast water breaks it down. But you are also correct about the light and other contaminates inside the water that breaks down the h202.
Buying straight 3% is the best IMO.
Quote:
scatmanrav said:
Quote:
Nanoid said:
Quote:
Decreased Stability
# Hydrogen peroxide is a very stable chemical. When hydrogen peroxide decomposes and looses stability, it releases oxygen. One factor that reduces the stability of hydrogen peroxide is contamination. Hydrogen peroxide that has been diluted with water is considered contaminated hydrogen peroxide and it looses stability quickly. Hydrogen peroxide which has been diluted with water has stabilizing ingredients added to it in order to offset the effects of the water. Heating H2O2 also causes loss in stability. Unlike diluting hydrogen peroxide with water, heating hydrogen peroxide causes violent loss in stability and increased pressures. Hydrogen peroxide decomposes to oxygen and water when it is heated and then cooled. Storing hydrogen peroxide in hot temperatures without proper ventilation can cause rapid loss of stability and can be dangerous.
I would imagine loading your jars full of H202 in a hot PC would cause rapid loss of stability and can be dangerous, no? Id guess the BRF itself would break it down if you let them sit a few minutes..but if someone were to try and copy you and didnt, and the H202 hadnt broken down...according to your quote there it may be dangerous. Of course so is crossing the street...just saying.
I don't think anybody would need to worry about this at all. Especially with a 3% mix and GE holes in the jars. With the GE holes pressure wouldn't build up, and 3% solution is practically harmless. Plus I let the h202 sit in the jars for 5-8 hours before PC/boiling them. It's probably nearly 100% broken down at that point anyway due to it interacting with the BRF and verm which also destabilize it.
Plus I have done a dozen jars so far using this method, and never once has anything happened.
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: h202 hydrogen peroxide quick questions [Re: Nanoid]
#12549603 - 05/12/10 03:48 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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As I said, if OTHERS try to copy the method you tell them about and DONT let the jars sit.
I'm not saying the h202 would be trapped in the jars..but in the pressure cooker. Hot and sealed..only a small amount vents. If to much oxygen got into the PC while it was on..I dont really know what would happen...but I would just mention to let the jars sit before PCing..better safe than sorry, no?
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Nanoid
See lost a seat You bend this
Registered: 03/30/10
Posts: 711
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: h202 hydrogen peroxide quick questions [Re: scatmanrav]
#12549681 - 05/12/10 04:04 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Like I said, I seriously doubt 3% is volatile at ALL even if it was super heated in a sealed chamber. That webpage mentions 74% peroxide... 3% is so freaking weak.
Nobody has to worry about it at all. I bet even less than a minuet inside the jars is enough to break it down almost all the way. Not to mention it's only 3%.
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Dr. Sub
Trip Hazard
Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 626
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: h202 hydrogen peroxide quick questions [Re: Nanoid]
#12550440 - 05/12/10 05:55 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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3% hydrogen peroxide is often measured in volume. 3% is equivalent to 20 vol, this means that when all the peroxide decomposes it will release 20 volumes of pure O2 as a function of its own mass.
20 volumes of 250 ml is lots of oxygen, its not volatile in that it quickly evaporates like solvents (acetone, methanol), but it is capable of producing large amounts of pure O2
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I hunt Shrooms
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