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Offlineinsipidtoast
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Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia?
    #12545651 - 05/11/10 08:51 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Gonna do

1 cup quinoa flour
1 cup water
2 cups vermiculite.

How much Stevia extract powder should be added to this?

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InvisibleShea25
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: insipidtoast]
    #12545659 - 05/11/10 08:53 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

None put in 1 tablespoon gypsum instead

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Offlineinsipidtoast
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: Shea25]
    #12545750 - 05/11/10 09:08 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I was gonna add that as well. Thanks for letting me know how much.

Why do you recommend against stevia? Blue Helix swears by it.

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OfflineAntii
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: Shea25]
    #12545769 - 05/11/10 09:11 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

what exactly is it supposed to do? make you cakes taste sweeter? :ooo:


--------------------
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OfflineCoreyRubble
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: Antii]
    #12545797 - 05/11/10 09:16 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

blue helix also said that the stevia turned his bulk substrate into a bacterial disaster if you search for it and read the first page


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tryin to find loopholes and shit...
ill report back when my house is a mushroom

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Offlineinsipidtoast
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: CoreyRubble]
    #12545806 - 05/11/10 09:17 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Also, I did a search, but couldn't find the answer. What's the recipe to have exactly the right amount of mixture for 12, 1/2 pint jars?

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OfflineCoreyRubble
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: insipidtoast]
    #12545870 - 05/11/10 09:31 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

for stevia? i dont know but he says in that thread that it ruined his substrate. i probably wouldn't use it.

stick to...
2c Verm
1c Water
1c Brown Rice Flour
1tbl Gypsum
5 1/2 pint jars


--------------------
fuck it im too high
tryin to find loopholes and shit...
ill report back when my house is a mushroom

          -just me-

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Offlineinsipidtoast
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: CoreyRubble]
    #12546334 - 05/11/10 11:16 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I just doubled the recipe, and the mixture turned out to be very very sticky/thick. With that amount 10 1/2 pint jars were supposed to be filled. I only filled 4.5 jars.
Why is it not like how it should be?

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OfflineTNK
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: insipidtoast]
    #12546430 - 05/11/10 11:38 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

insipidtoast said:
I just doubled the recipe, and the mixture turned out to be very very sticky/thick. With that amount 10 1/2 pint jars were supposed to be filled. I only filled 4.5 jars.
Why is it not like how it should be?



because, from what others seemed to have say, It appears that it wasn't a good idea. and in fact it doesn't work. :shrug:


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Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)

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OfflineCoreyRubble
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: TNK]
    #12546537 - 05/12/10 12:03 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)



--------------------
fuck it im too high
tryin to find loopholes and shit...
ill report back when my house is a mushroom

          -just me-

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OfflineCoreyRubble
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: CoreyRubble]
    #12546548 - 05/12/10 12:05 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

you have to leave from the rim up empty and you put dry verm to fill the rest. follow that tek you will be alright


--------------------
fuck it im too high
tryin to find loopholes and shit...
ill report back when my house is a mushroom

          -just me-

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Offlineinsipidtoast
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: CoreyRubble]
    #12547711 - 05/12/10 09:27 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I added about 2 tbsp extra of water, hoping to balance out the added gypsum and stevia. I only added 1 tsp of stevia per cup of quinoa flour.

I highly doubt the quinoa flour is added with a different ratio than BRF, because the rest of the jars I filled were of a nice consistency.

In conclusion, probably that little extra amount of water fucked it up. Well, if those jars actually end up colonizing, they'll be super jars.

I checked Blue Helix's post for Aussie Pan Cyans, searching on each page for the word stevia. Not once did I come across anything saying that stevia was responsible for contamination. Besides, in this situation it won't matter because we sterilize the entire contents of the jar. Maybe it's just another myth, but, in any case, as someone else mentioned, I'll at least have sweeter cakes!

Edited by insipidtoast (05/12/10 09:32 AM)

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OfflineCoreyRubble
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: insipidtoast]
    #12547751 - 05/12/10 09:38 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Blue Helix said:
I just got done throwing away the biggest horse manure disaster I have ever seen as a direct result of adding Stevia leaves to my bulk substrate.  And I believe if one adds Stevia to one's bulk substrate in the form of the extract, it will instantly turn into a bacterial nightmare just like it did for me.

I added 2% (per dry weight) Stevia leaf material as sold for tea (actually looked like tea leaves) to my horse manure prior to pasteurization.  The pasteurization temperatures got too hot due to a malfunction in my oven.  I am guessing the excessive heat must have released the sugars from the leaf.  The result was almost instant and total destruction of 20 pounds of spawn that was spawned out at a rate of 35%.  The whole mess smelled terrible in 8 hours.  In 16 hours, it became so god awful that I had to throw it out.

If you want to know the effect of adding stevia leaves as I did or adding stevia extract, don't waste your money with stevia.  Just pour in about 2% of granulated cane sugar.  You'll get the idea (and smell it too).

I have no idea at all what Agar did to make his mushrooms stronger, but I can tell you he did NOT add Stevia leaf material in the consistency of tea leaves like I did. 

And before someone tries to pin this to something else: the manure was, if anything, a bit on the dry side.  I almost have never had trouble getting manure to colonize, and in my years of messing with manure, I have never had it so quickly go south.  I once had manure start to colonize and not finish, but this is the first time I have had something this crazy happen.

My recommendations for anyone wanting to try this: unless you really want to gamble, forget about adding Stevia anything to your bulk substrate until someone like agar can tell you exactly what to do and where to get the exact leaf material he used.





Maybe this will help. it was in advanced mycology
don't know if he was going for Pans but whatever.


Also this is for Bulk Subs. Not PF Tek.

Good Luck man i hope it turns out for you


--------------------
fuck it im too high
tryin to find loopholes and shit...
ill report back when my house is a mushroom

          -just me-

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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: CoreyRubble]
    #12547773 - 05/12/10 09:42 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Stevia was claimed to enhance potency. But any such claims are generally bunk. It's a failed proposition from the get go, claiming that any additive enhances potency, because it's nigh impossible to measure the minor differences in potency between cubensis fruits. If you want super-potent mushrooms, grow a more potent species.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Edited by anonjon (05/12/10 09:43 AM)

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Offlineinsipidtoast
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: anonjon]
    #12547795 - 05/12/10 09:47 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I tried:sad:

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Offlineinsipidtoast
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: CoreyRubble]
    #12547812 - 05/12/10 09:52 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CoreyRubble said:
Quote:

Blue Helix said:
I just got done throwing away the biggest horse manure disaster I have ever seen as a direct result of adding Stevia leaves to my bulk substrate.  And I believe if one adds Stevia to one's bulk substrate in the form of the extract, it will instantly turn into a bacterial nightmare just like it did for me.

I added 2% (per dry weight) Stevia leaf material as sold for tea (actually looked like tea leaves) to my horse manure prior to pasteurization.  The pasteurization temperatures got too hot due to a malfunction in my oven.  I am guessing the excessive heat must have released the sugars from the leaf.  The result was almost instant and total destruction of 20 pounds of spawn that was spawned out at a rate of 35%.  The whole mess smelled terrible in 8 hours.  In 16 hours, it became so god awful that I had to throw it out.

If you want to know the effect of adding stevia leaves as I did or adding stevia extract, don't waste your money with stevia.  Just pour in about 2% of granulated cane sugar.  You'll get the idea (and smell it too).

I have no idea at all what Agar did to make his mushrooms stronger, but I can tell you he did NOT add Stevia leaf material in the consistency of tea leaves like I did. 

And before someone tries to pin this to something else: the manure was, if anything, a bit on the dry side.  I almost have never had trouble getting manure to colonize, and in my years of messing with manure, I have never had it so quickly go south.  I once had manure start to colonize and not finish, but this is the first time I have had something this crazy happen.

My recommendations for anyone wanting to try this: unless you really want to gamble, forget about adding Stevia anything to your bulk substrate until someone like agar can tell you exactly what to do and where to get the exact leaf material he used.





Maybe this will help. it was in advanced mycology
don't know if he was going for Pans but whatever.


Also this is for Bulk Subs. Not PF Tek.

Good Luck man i hope it turns out for you




Well there ya have it. That's regarding bulk substrate. Sterilized jars shouldn't be a problem unless a contam is introduced. So it's a moot point. Nevertheless, it's nice to know what happened in that situation, so I won't add stevia to any bulk substrates in the future. Thanks for posting that.

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OfflineCoreyRubble
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: insipidtoast]
    #12547857 - 05/12/10 10:08 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

just doing my part to the deconstruction of society!


--------------------
fuck it im too high
tryin to find loopholes and shit...
ill report back when my house is a mushroom

          -just me-

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: CoreyRubble]
    #12547871 - 05/12/10 10:11 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I use
2 parts vermiculite (3 if it's coarse instead of fine)
1 part grain flour
1 part water
couple tablespoons of used coffee grains
couple tablespoons of gypsum

Works well for me.


--------------------
Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.

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OfflineGiggle_Grower
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: Spongiform]
    #12547953 - 05/12/10 10:31 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

why do u add coffee grinds? i thot they speed colonization up, but slowed down fruiting with diminished yields? i read that on here somewhere, ill try to find it.

edit-well i found about adding coffee water, but it appears that grinds just take up space for more nutrious BRF. to each their own i guess.


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Edited by Giggle_Grower (05/12/10 10:46 AM)

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: Giggle_Grower]
    #12548008 - 05/12/10 10:45 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Giggle_Grower said:
why do u add coffee grains? i thot they speed colonization up, but slowed down fruiting with diminished yields? i read that on here somewhere, ill try to find it.



Spent coffee is an excellent growing medium.  Some people grow solely on coffee grains.  I drink a cup of coffee every day for breakfast so I always have some spent coffee handy ;-D


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Offlineinsipidtoast
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: Spongiform]
    #12548270 - 05/12/10 11:42 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Could you use tea?

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: Modified PF Tek - How much Stevia? [Re: insipidtoast]
    #12548540 - 05/12/10 12:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

insipidtoast said:
Could you use tea?




I would stick to grains and mineral supplements.


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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: Spongiform]
    #12549101 - 05/12/10 02:20 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

So, I've heard about using coffee/water mix in the PF Tek but from what I've read coffee grounds shouldn't be used with BRF for jars. Would you recommend using coffee grounds along with gypsum to improve the substrate mix for the PF? Or should I just stick with verm, BRF, and gypsum?


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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: Nyawinge]
    #12550475 - 05/12/10 06:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I read somewhere that someone uses 2:1:1 verm:grain flour:half strength coffee and added gypsum. I think thats what I'm going to try. Wish I had the source. Could look for it if you reeeeaally want.

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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: Base Icks]
    #12553991 - 05/13/10 07:44 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Nah, you should stick to verm, quinoa flour and gypsum. Quinoa is the grain with the highest concentrations of tryptophan. There's threads about that.

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OfflineCoreyRubble
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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: Base Icks]
    #12553997 - 05/13/10 07:47 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Base Icks said:
I read somewhere that someone uses 2:1:1 verm:grain flour:half strength coffee and added gypsum. I think thats what I'm going to try. Wish I had the source. Could look for it if you reeeeaally want.




You might want to throw some water in that shit too :smile:


--------------------
fuck it im too high
tryin to find loopholes and shit...
ill report back when my house is a mushroom

          -just me-

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Offlineinsipidtoast
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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: CoreyRubble]
    #12554008 - 05/13/10 07:52 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Fuck water! Mushrooms don't need that!

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OfflineSomeGuy
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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: insipidtoast]
    #12554024 - 05/13/10 08:00 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I read a paper by either Guzman or gartz that said higher dextrose=lower potency. At 10% dextrose malt agar there were no actives, thats a reason why I think stevia is a bad idea. Coffee grounds in pf is against everything pf stands for. You want high nutrition, and spent coffee grounds don't have much.

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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: SomeGuy]
    #12554676 - 05/13/10 11:01 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I add coffee to all my pf mixes, but that's why I called it 'modified' pf mix.  I do so at a relatively low ratio.  2-3 tablespoons per quart of grain flour.

Quote:

You want high nutrition, and spent coffee grounds don't have much.




I'd like to see the evidence / data to support this statement.  Not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to see the basis for what you're saying.

I know that coffee definitely doesn't hurt.


Quote:

You might want to throw some water in that shit too




half strength coffee = Watered down coffee :-D


--------------------
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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: Spongiform]
    #12554769 - 05/13/10 11:19 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Before you try adding tryptophan to substrates do a quick search, you will find that your efforts are for nil.

Quote:

Seaweed is very high in tryptophan, and mushrooms grow on it quite well, once dried and shredded. I drove my truck down on the beach one night at low tide and filled up the back. However, I never could conclusively quantify that it made a bit of difference potency-wise.

RR



Quote:

Gotta admit though, if we could chop up turkey meat and mix it with our substrates to improve potency, it would sure make things easy.


RR







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Edited by Numinosum (05/13/10 11:20 AM)

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OfflineSomeGuy
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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: Numinosum]
    #12555835 - 05/13/10 02:50 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You want high nutrition, and spent coffee grounds don't have much.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I'd like to see the evidence / data to support this statement.  Not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to see the basis for what you're saying.

I know that coffee definitely doesn't hurt.
pH 6.9 Coffee ::: Ground Scroungers Info... I don't know how to post a link, this is what the post was called

Edited by SomeGuy (05/13/10 02:51 PM)

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InvisibleNuminosum
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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: SomeGuy]
    #12556001 - 05/13/10 03:23 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

paducahovoids said:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You want high nutrition, and spent coffee grounds don't have much.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I'd like to see the evidence / data to support this statement.  Not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to see the basis for what you're saying.

I know that coffee definitely doesn't hurt.
pH 6.9 Coffee ::: Ground Scroungers Info... I don't know how to post a link, this is what the post was called




Black coffee (brewed) has a ph in th 5 range. Now the ph of water is in the 7 range so a scoop of
unleached coffee should be less than 5 ph.
Now I forget how to use logarithms to figure out ph but if someone knows they could figure it out.


quick google search for ref.: http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_ideas/Chem_AcidsBasespHScale.shtml


--------------------
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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: Numinosum]
    #12556111 - 05/13/10 03:41 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.  Spent coffee grounds should be about neutral (especially with my well water that has a high calcium content) but I don't see what that has to do with it's nutrient content. 

But now that you mention it I might try a PF block with nothing BUT coffee grounds and see how well it does.  Gonna pick up a 5 gallon bucket of grains from starbucks this weekend.


--------------------
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InvisibleNuminosum
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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: Spongiform]
    #12556138 - 05/13/10 03:47 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Spongiform said:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.  Spent coffee grounds should be about neutral (especially with my well water that has a high calcium content) but I don't see what that has to do with it's nutrient content. 

But now that you mention it I might try a PF block with nothing BUT coffee grounds and see how well it does.  Gonna pick up a 5 gallon bucket of grains from starbucks this weekend.




From my understanding he is talking about using ground coffee beans... without leaching? (brewing) So not spent grounds, just coffee beans.

And claiming that it has a ph of 6.9?

maybe I misunderstood


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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: Numinosum]
    #12556228 - 05/13/10 04:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

He said:

Quote:

You want high nutrition, and spent coffee grounds don't have much.




I said:

Quote:

I'd like to see the evidence / data to support this statement.  Not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to see the basis for what you're saying.

I know that coffee definitely doesn't hurt.




he replied:

Quote:

pH 6.9 Coffee ::: Ground Scroungers Info




So I'm not sure how the acidity relates to now nutritious it is.  Maybe saying the PH balance will have a negative impact?


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InvisibleNuminosum
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Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 1,175
Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: Spongiform]
    #12556408 - 05/13/10 04:33 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Honestly I am kinda lost at where this conversation was going.

recap my position:

  • I am for spent coffee
  • I am against fresh coffee beans.


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OfflineSomeGuy
I feel better now :)
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Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 7,496
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Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: Spongiform]
    #12557045 - 05/13/10 06:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Spongiform said:
He said:

Quote:

You want high nutrition, and spent coffee grounds don't have much.




I said:

Quote:

I'd like to see the evidence / data to support this statement.  Not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to see the basis for what you're saying.

I know that coffee definitely doesn't hurt.




he replied:

Quote:

pH 6.9 Coffee ::: Ground Scroungers Info




So I'm not sure how the acidity relates to now nutritious it is.  Maybe saying the PH balance will have a negative impact?



thats just the name of the thread. It talks about the nitrogen(low)content and how basically it is low in nuts. I wasn't speaking about the ph, thats just the name of the thread

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InvisibleBase Icks
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Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire Flag
Re: SPONGIFORM [Re: SomeGuy]
    #12560103 - 05/14/10 02:52 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, spongiform was correct. I meant half strength coffee as watered down coffee. I think we even had a discussion somewhere about what that means(recipe).

Anyways, looks like maybe this thread should be locked? Its a bit off topic.

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