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OfflineMrPeanutButta
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Colonization question
    #12538692 - 05/10/10 05:56 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Okay, I've been reading conflicting information when it comes to casing and res effect etc.  When asking about casing most will tell you that it's a layer of non nutritive substrate (Such as verm or verm/peat etc.) that covers your colonized substrate before fruiting to create the perfect environment for the mycellium below the casing layer as well as providing moisture to the mycellium.  Others say that mycellium will actually grow on verm as it does have some sort of nutritional property.

When talking about the res effect it seems that some think it just means instead of having a casing layer you mix the moisture reservoir into the colonized substrate simply providing moisture for fruiting.

From what I have observed however (Not in person but from other people's grows) is that when you mix equal parts colonized substrate with straight verm or 50/50 or whatever you want and then place it in incubation conditions, the new mixture not only provides moisture but the mycellium actually spawns to the uncolonized mix similar to spawning to bulk substrate but supposedly with "no nutrients".

I'm just confused as to what the actual situation is.  Could you mix unequal parts of colonized substrate with straight verm and have the entire mix recolonize or does verm only provide moisture.

Edited by MrPeanutButta (05/10/10 05:58 PM)

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Invisiblem00nshine
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Re: Colonization question [Re: MrPeanutButta]
    #12538708 - 05/10/10 05:59 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I've heard of others using verm as substrate, but I don't remember actually seeing the results. No matter what, you're better off just spawning to some coir. I'd say leave verm for casings.


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InvisibleTacoHerder
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Re: Colonization question [Re: m00nshine]
    #12539009 - 05/10/10 06:44 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

yes your casing should be atleast 10-20% colonized before you place it in fruiting conditions. so the mycl does colonize the casing a bit.


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InvisibleInterrobang
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Re: Colonization question [Re: TacoHerder]
    #12539149 - 05/10/10 07:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I think the myc grows upon the verm to attain moisture and not to attain nutrients. Here's a pic of some dumpy project I'm working on just for fun. It's just rye with some damp verm on top. (Note: rye + verm alone sucks.) Anyway, the top layer was originally all verm. Notice all the myc growing through it.


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OfflineMrPeanutButta
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Re: Colonization question [Re: m00nshine]
    #12539335 - 05/10/10 07:30 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Check this link out.  I posted it in a thread the other day but it applies here as well.

http://shroomotopia.net/index.php?showtopic=275

This is just WBS and straight Verm.  Judging by this, the rye and verm used by Interrobang should work out well; I wonder why that is not the case.

Edited by MrPeanutButta (05/10/10 07:31 PM)

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OfflineMrPeanutButta
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Re: Colonization question [Re: Interrobang]
    #12539393 - 05/10/10 07:38 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

So, if the Myc does indeed colonize the verm to obtain only moisture the Myc still, by effect gains more surface area and a stronger colonization which could result in better fruiting potential?

I guess what I'm confused about is why you would need to use, say coir over verm in such a situation.  Do more nutrients simply equal more flushes?  What are the benefits?

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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Colonization question [Re: MrPeanutButta]
    #12539594 - 05/10/10 08:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mikey851 said:
So, if the Myc does indeed colonize the verm to obtain only moisture the Myc still, by effect gains more surface area and a stronger colonization which could result in better fruiting potential?

I guess what I'm confused about is why you would need to use, say coir over verm in such a situation.  Do more nutrients simply equal more flushes?  What are the benefits?




coir has a nice consistency for retaining moisture. it also appears to have some cellulose that can be digested. Vermiculite contains a number of minerals that the mycelium seems to like. It's been shown that spawning to straight verm gives much better results than other non-nutritive experimental substrates like wood chips. Look for a thread on this subject by RR. He argues that the myc 'eats' vermiculite. I believe it. Not for energy, but for the minerals.


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InvisibleSeagoat
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Re: Colonization question [Re: anonjon]
    #12539635 - 05/10/10 08:19 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

IMO vermiculite should be included in all bulk substrates. It is a mushroom growers friend no doubt.

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InvisibleTacoHerder
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Re: Colonization question [Re: Seagoat]
    #12539642 - 05/10/10 08:20 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

yup


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Offlinejerrylove
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Re: Colonization question [Re: TacoHerder]
    #12539894 - 05/10/10 09:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I would do this but I'm to busy these days. But how about do a comparison with a set amount of colonized substrate like quarts of Rye. Then case it in a couple different mixtures like a sand and perlite mix- no nuts there as far as I know. Then a 50/50 and also the coir based casing. I think a silt based with sand  would be nuts free. I don't know that would cool. Just an idea.


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InvisibleTacoHerder
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Re: Colonization question [Re: jerrylove]
    #12540024 - 05/10/10 09:17 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

the new tc said adding just a bit of coir to your casing helps out allot. so try the 50/50 verm/pea moss, and add bit of coir to it. see how it works


--------------------
TO ALL CULTIVATORS, EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10899385
We need more member like mycochef, he is truly a kind giving person. Just ask Noobie, mycochef hooked him up big time!
Fastest Cultivation WINNER!!!! NoOneKnowsHowToAct won it twice, must be doing something right:super:

Shoot me a pm if you would like a powerful custom laser built. :smile: 4th pic is a 1.3W 445nm laser burning thru some plastic makeup containers. Yes I was wearing proper safety goggles, otherwise I would be blind right now.

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OfflineMrPeanutButta
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Re: Colonization question [Re: TacoHerder]
    #12540096 - 05/10/10 09:29 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe I could have my friend do something like that.
Quote:

TacoHerder said:
the new tc said adding just a bit of coir to your casing helps out allot. so try the 50/50 verm/pea moss, and add bit of coir to it. see how it works




As a casing layer or mixed with substrate like res effect?

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InvisibleTacoHerder
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Re: Colonization question [Re: MrPeanutButta]
    #12540145 - 05/10/10 09:36 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mikey851 said:
Maybe I could have my friend do something like that.
Quote:

TacoHerder said:
the new tc said adding just a bit of coir to your casing helps out allot. so try the 50/50 verm/pea moss, and add bit of coir to it. see how it works




As a casing layer or mixed with substrate like res effect?





what? as a casing layer. why do you keep saying res effect?


--------------------
TO ALL CULTIVATORS, EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10899385
We need more member like mycochef, he is truly a kind giving person. Just ask Noobie, mycochef hooked him up big time!
Fastest Cultivation WINNER!!!! NoOneKnowsHowToAct won it twice, must be doing something right:super:

Shoot me a pm if you would like a powerful custom laser built. :smile: 4th pic is a 1.3W 445nm laser burning thru some plastic makeup containers. Yes I was wearing proper safety goggles, otherwise I would be blind right now.

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OfflineMrPeanutButta
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Re: Colonization question [Re: TacoHerder]
    #12540201 - 05/10/10 09:49 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

TacoHerder said:
Quote:

Mikey851 said:
Maybe I could have my friend do something like that.
Quote:

TacoHerder said:
the new tc said adding just a bit of coir to your casing helps out allot. so try the 50/50 verm/pea moss, and add bit of coir to it. see how it works




As a casing layer or mixed with substrate like res effect?





what? as a casing layer. why do you keep saying res effect?




Lol, take it easy on me I'm new.  Did you check out that link I posted?  Res effect is basically sacrificing multiple flushes for a potentially larger and easier (less effort) first flush.  You actually mix the substrate in with either straight verm or 50/50 and you do not case the mixture you just cover it in foil and after a few days you fruit it.

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InvisibleTacoHerder
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Re: Colonization question [Re: MrPeanutButta]
    #12540266 - 05/10/10 09:57 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

thats called making bulk substrate.. when you take your colonized sub(via grains or brf) and mix it to a bulk sub such as coir, hpoo, and straw. i never even add a casing. doing this should give you more than 1 flush easy. "rez" means Reservoir. just another fancy term for spawning to bulk.


--------------------
TO ALL CULTIVATORS, EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10899385
We need more member like mycochef, he is truly a kind giving person. Just ask Noobie, mycochef hooked him up big time!
Fastest Cultivation WINNER!!!! NoOneKnowsHowToAct won it twice, must be doing something right:super:

Shoot me a pm if you would like a powerful custom laser built. :smile: 4th pic is a 1.3W 445nm laser burning thru some plastic makeup containers. Yes I was wearing proper safety goggles, otherwise I would be blind right now.

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InvisibleTacoHerder
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Re: Colonization question [Re: TacoHerder]
    #12540281 - 05/10/10 09:59 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

so you would just spawn your substrate(which is your colonized grains or brf cakes) to a bulk substrate. i like coir,with almost equal parts verm, some coffee grinds, and some gypsum.


--------------------
TO ALL CULTIVATORS, EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10899385
We need more member like mycochef, he is truly a kind giving person. Just ask Noobie, mycochef hooked him up big time!
Fastest Cultivation WINNER!!!! NoOneKnowsHowToAct won it twice, must be doing something right:super:

Shoot me a pm if you would like a powerful custom laser built. :smile: 4th pic is a 1.3W 445nm laser burning thru some plastic makeup containers. Yes I was wearing proper safety goggles, otherwise I would be blind right now.

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OfflineMrPeanutButta
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Re: Colonization question [Re: TacoHerder]
    #12540300 - 05/10/10 10:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

TacoHerder said:
thats called making bulk substrate.. when you take your colonized sub(via grains or brf) and mix it to a bulk sub such as coir, hpoo, and straw. i never even add a casing. doing this should give you more than 1 flush easy. "rez" means Reservoir. just another fancy term for spawning to bulk.




Well that's part of the reason why I made this thread.  My first post mentions that "res effect" with straight verm is like spawning to bulk substrate but people say that verm has no nutrients.  This thread is bringing up the arguement that there is in fact something in Verm that Myc will eat therefore, even though not usually considered bulk substrate, verm or 50/50 mix can be spawned to like hpoo or straw.

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InvisibleTacoHerder
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Re: Colonization question [Re: MrPeanutButta]
    #12540325 - 05/10/10 10:05 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

verm has nutrients. not allot by itself, but it does have plenty of nutrients.


--------------------
TO ALL CULTIVATORS, EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10899385
We need more member like mycochef, he is truly a kind giving person. Just ask Noobie, mycochef hooked him up big time!
Fastest Cultivation WINNER!!!! NoOneKnowsHowToAct won it twice, must be doing something right:super:

Shoot me a pm if you would like a powerful custom laser built. :smile: 4th pic is a 1.3W 445nm laser burning thru some plastic makeup containers. Yes I was wearing proper safety goggles, otherwise I would be blind right now.

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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Colonization question [Re: TacoHerder]
    #12541876 - 05/11/10 08:03 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

mineral nutrients, no calories


OP I don't know why you want to case your cubes. Just make spawn, mix it up with some coir/verm and POW boomers. Simple, reliable, and high yielding.


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The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

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