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Offlinejim617
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why wont my coir colonize???
    #12537335 - 05/10/10 02:27 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I've been trying to go from pftek to bulk. I've prepared a few batches of coir, ive spawned to bulk using both WBS and BRF and I just can't get the coir to finish colonizing! It starts ok, but always just stops half way through or so. I've been very careful to keep everything contam free, working with clove boxes and spawning it to filter patch bags to keep everything clean as possible. What's going on guys? I've patuerized and got it all to field capacity, I feel like I'm doing it right. Should I switch to poopoo?

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Offlinetajmahal420
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: jim617]
    #12537412 - 05/10/10 02:39 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

If growth stalls halfway through colonization, you're substrate is too dry, or it's contaminated.  How long since you spawned?  Also, I'm not sure mixing the two different spawn mediums would be a problem or not.:shrug:

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Offlinejim617
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: tajmahal420]
    #12537445 - 05/10/10 02:44 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I've let a few bags go for over 2 months before I've tossed them. And I didn't mix the wbs and brf, they were in seperate batches.
I've got 40 jars of PE going right now, all pf tek. (Most reliable for me). I want to get the most out of this grow. I see all these amazing pictures of bulk grows and I want !!  I've read and read so many post, I've got hours of reading into bulk and just can't get it right.

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Offlinetajmahal420
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: jim617]
    #12537475 - 05/10/10 02:50 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Ah, different batches.  I get it now.

Do you have GE holes in the bags?  I'm assuming filter patch bags.  If you don't have GE, it will definitely stall.  If this isn't the problem, I'm kinda stumped.  Spawn ratio?

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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: jim617]
    #12537487 - 05/10/10 02:53 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

What are your temps you keep you substrates incubating at?
Also you made no mention of how you are providing gas exchange for your substrates or even if you are at all.
You have filter patches on your spawn bags, right?


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How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.

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Offlinejim617
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: hamloaf]
    #12537532 - 05/10/10 03:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I've used filter patch bags AND I've spawned to tubs and covered them. The tubs did much better but all contaminated, and the filter patch bags just never finished colonizing. I just don't get it guys.
As for spawn ratio. I've experimenting with everything, I've even used a 1:1 ratio to be sure. Still nothing.
I must be preparing my subsrate the wrong way? Maybe over heating it??  I try to keep it between 150-170 but have gotten higher at times. I can't believe that every attempt I've had has failed.
Is poo any easier or should I give up and grow PF cakes for the rest of my life??

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Offlinetajmahal420
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: jim617]
    #12537585 - 05/10/10 03:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Never tried coir, horse manure is too readily available to me for free, and I've never had a problem with it.  Easy, too.

Since you've done BRF successfully, why not move up to grains?  I feel you'll have much more success spawning grains to bulk than cakes, be it coir or manure.

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Offlinejim617
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: tajmahal420]
    #12537773 - 05/10/10 03:38 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I've tried WBS many times but its just so messy and less reliable IMO.

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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: jim617]
    #12537822 - 05/10/10 03:46 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I never had success with WBS the few times I tried it.  I could never get the moisture content right.  And you're right, WBS can be messy.

Rye berries rock.  Call your local natural food stores and ask them if they carry organic rye berries.  If they do, ask them if they sell it in bulk.

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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: tajmahal420]
    #12537842 - 05/10/10 03:50 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Yah, I was thinking of trying rye. But for the time being I already have all these pfcakes going. I really want to get the most out of them. this is my first PE grow also. If that makes a difference.

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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: tajmahal420]
    #12537844 - 05/10/10 03:51 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

What was your pasteurizing technique? Sterilizing technique for jars? Go back through your entire process.

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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: Breakfast Crew]
    #12537912 - 05/10/10 04:05 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I bring the coir up to field capacity by soaking the coir in the water them squeezing the water out in my fist until only a few drops fall, then I load them directly in the jars. Then What I do is fill half pint jars with coir and use a tyvek filter on them, I boil the jars with one jar having a thermometer stck throuch the tyvek, I let it pasteurize at 150-170 (sometime I go over) for about 30-60 min. The next day when its cool I quickly open the jars and put them in filter patch bags, using a spawn ratio of 1:1 up to 1:2. Then I seal the bags quickly with duck tape. .

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OfflineFangaz420
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: jim617]
    #12538152 - 05/10/10 04:36 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

where the hell did you come up with that type of pasteurization. just do this http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=9289857&page=0&vc=1&PHPSESSID=#Post9289857

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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: jim617]
    #12538226 - 05/10/10 04:46 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

jim617 said:
I bring the coir up to field capacity by soaking the coir in the water them squeezing the water out in my fist until only a few drops fall, then I load them directly in the jars. Then What I do is fill half pint jars with coir and use a tyvek filter on them, I boil the jars with one jar having a thermometer stck throuch the tyvek, I let it pasteurize at 150-170 (sometime I go over) for about 30-60 min. The next day when its cool I quickly open the jars and put them in filter patch bags, using a spawn ratio of 1:1 up to 1:2. Then I seal the bags quickly with duck tape. .




God, this technique is just riddled with potential problems!

Try out some of the tested-and-true methods. For bulk pasteurization=, try the pillowcase tek. This will help you get an almost perfect field capacity for coir - and your problem is almost certainly moisture content imbalance

Coir can be a bitch for drying out too fast. Mix in some wet verm or even some composted steer manure into your bulk coir prior to pasteurization to retain moisture better.

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Offlined1spatch
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: Fangaz420]
    #12538255 - 05/10/10 04:50 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

WBS really isn't that messy or difficult. Soak it for 12-24, pour it in a pot and simmer/stir it for about 10 minutes. You know its about good if you pick up a kernel between two nails and pinch it. If its fairly easy and somewhat mushy to pinch, you're good.

As for your issues with coir, a bunch of my coir trays contaminated, not sure what is up either. I've used bagged manure and it works well.

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Offlinejim617
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: Fangaz420]
    #12538261 - 05/10/10 04:51 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Ok so if I use that tek I will just use 1 gallon of water to every brick and not have to waorry about getting my moisture right?  Also I don't have to use tyvek and filter patch bags? Seems like I'm going way too far out of my way to keep my coir sterile when this guy just dumps it in a pot and then a bucket, no sterile technique at all? I guess sterility isn't important at this point and the water content is just perfect with 1 gallon to one brick? 

So I'm guessing coir doesn't contaminate as easily as the grains of brf do? I mean, what's the point of pastuerizing the coir if he just let's the stuff sit in open air so many times?  Maybe I'm confusing pastuerization with sterilization?

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Offlinejim617
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: jim617]
    #12538312 - 05/10/10 05:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Well now that spring is here I can get cow poop from a local dairy farm ,they sell composted manure for $5 in a 5 gallon bucket. "Cheap as shit" . (That would be a good name for their company).
As for the grains, I promise I won't give up, but for the time being I already have these pf jars colonizing. So I got to use what I got.

So it seams moisture is my problem..
I guess this is all about trial and error. Ill find my perfect tek sooner or later.

I've been tossing my failed cakes in a grassy field, maybe some day nature will do her thing and spread her love naturally.

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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: Fangaz420]
    #12544641 - 05/11/10 06:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Fangaz420 said:
where the hell did you come up with that type of pasteurization. just do this http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=9289857&page=0&vc=1&PHPSESSID=#Post9289857





This coir tek is simpler.
http://www.shroomery.org/10858/How-to-do-Coir

Use bricks this size available at Pet Smart and Petco.



They are sold as substrates for reptile aquariums and cages.
www.petsmart.com
www.petco.com

Petco has these for sell these coir bricks in three packs for 10 dollars.



I found these @ Ace hardware for $10.00.
3 to 4 times as much coir then the ecoearth brand at the same cost as the 3 pack from petco.



Just double the numbers in the tek mentioned above for use with these "tiles".


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How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.

Edited by LiquidMyce (05/11/10 06:25 PM)

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: jim617]
    #12544893 - 05/11/10 06:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

jim617 said:
I bring the coir up to field capacity by soaking the coir in the water them squeezing the water out in my fist until only a few drops fall, then I load them directly in the jars. Then What I do is fill half pint jars with coir and use a tyvek filter on them, I boil the jars with one jar having a thermometer stck throuch the tyvek, I let it pasteurize at 150-170 (sometime I go over) for about 30-60 min. The next day when its cool I quickly open the jars and put them in filter patch bags, using a spawn ratio of 1:1 up to 1:2. Then I seal the bags quickly with duck tape. .




Why not just pasteurize in the bag and then when it's cool spawn to it?  That eliminates a vector of contamination.  However, that's not the problem, contaminated spawn is.  Pasteurized coir won't contaminate with green molds before first flush unless your original pf cakes were contaminated.
RR


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Offlinejim617
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Re: why wont my coir colonize??? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12546278 - 05/11/10 11:06 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I've tried to pasteurize in the filter bags, but its such a pain in the ass trying to keep in in the water because it floats, so I have to some how keep in weighed down withought having the patch itself underr water. it was just too hard.  For me anyway.

Thanks for the advice everyone, I think ill try a mix of all your methods, ill also try preparing smaller batches so all my eggs aren't in one basket, ill label every different batch then figure out what works best for me. 

That's interesting to know that the first flush won't contaminate without a contaminated spawn..

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