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Anonymous #1

6500K CFL Lighting
    #12537246 - 05/10/10 02:14 PM (14 years, 12 days ago)

I've heard that people use these lights to give adequate lighting for fruiting mushrooms.  Seeing as they are "daylight" lamps, could this possibly be seen by a fly-over with thermal imaging?  I've heard of many people getting busted while growing marijuana, although I assume their lights are bigger?

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #12537627 - 05/10/10 03:15 PM (14 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
I've heard that people use these lights to give adequate lighting for fruiting mushrooms.  Seeing as they are "daylight" lamps, could this possibly be seen by a fly-over with thermal imaging?




Flyovers using thermal imaging were declared illegal in in the US vs. Kyllo case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyllo_v._United_States

Now they can only use it if they had other evidence first.

Thermal imaging only works if you have enough lights to make your roof and walls hot, which requires several thousand watts.

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #12538209 - 05/10/10 04:44 PM (14 years, 12 days ago)

They want rows of 1000w HPS, one or two 8w compact fluorescents wont attract attention. You dont grow mushrooms with the light energy, you are just providing light to initiate pinning etc.


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Anonymous #1

Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Asante]
    #12538486 - 05/10/10 05:24 PM (14 years, 12 days ago)

Did the patriot act not change any of this?

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #12541454 - 05/11/10 03:36 AM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
Did the patriot act not change any of this?





No it did not.

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OfflineBrennus
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #12558137 - 05/13/10 08:50 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

If you're that paranoid about running a few fluorescent lights in your house, which could easily be for a fish tank, then maybe you should rethink this hobby. 

:morefoil:

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OfflineCascadian
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Brennus]
    #12558366 - 05/13/10 09:16 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Brennus said:
If you're that paranoid about running a few fluorescent lights in your house, which could easily be for a fish tank, then maybe you should rethink this hobby. 

:morefoil:




Seconded.

Say your house has 12 incandescent lightbulbs in it that are used regularly.

You switch all of those to compact flourescent bulbs that use 1/4 the power.

You also hook up 3 compact flourescent bulbs in your closet for your science projects.

Net energy has gone down, not up.

Realize that high powered pot-growing bulbs run 500+ watts.  A CFL runs 8-20 or so.

Your CPU will warm your house more than a CFL.

Dont be scared by the big 6500K number, it doesnt mean its a big light bulb.

:paranoid:

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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Cascadian]
    #12573082 - 05/16/10 01:15 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Being paranoid in this case isn't crazy. It's smart.

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OfflineBrennus
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: bigcrackrock]
    #12573189 - 05/16/10 01:37 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

bigcrackrock said:
Being paranoid in this case isn't crazy. It's smart.




No. It's fucking retarded. I always suggest that folks be careful, but no one is going to kick your door in because you have some day-glo flourescent lights.

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Offlinebigcrackrock
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Brennus]
    #12575370 - 05/16/10 08:13 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Brennus said:
Quote:

bigcrackrock said:
Being paranoid in this case isn't crazy. It's smart.




No. It's fucking retarded. I always suggest that folks be careful, but no one is going to kick your door in because you have some day-glo flourescent lights.




Are you a prick in person as well? Look at it like this. Knowledge of how lights work will be of minimum help in this hobby. Besides maybe sticking one in your FC and starting a fire. Looking out for your ass legally can prevent you from ruining your life. I'd say as long as he knows how to do that there's no reason to call it quits. How is he any less qualified then anybody else who doesn't understand how something works in the process? He was wondering if a bulb could be picked up on thermal flyovers. He didn't say that Freemasons were trying to take over the world.

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OfflinePfffffff
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: bigcrackrock] * 1
    #12575445 - 05/16/10 08:27 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

bigcrackrock said:
He didn't say that Freemasons were trying to take over the world.




Agreed...not that freemasons don't want to take over the world though.  Clearly they do.


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Pfffffff]
    #12590620 - 05/19/10 07:12 AM (14 years, 3 days ago)

if you are really that paranoid you could always get sunblocker foil for peace of mind.

Just line the walls and ceiling with it. It completely blocks out heat signals keeping all the radiant heat inside.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #12592212 - 05/19/10 01:28 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Thermal imaging devices measure the temperature of the outside of your house, vents, etc.  Sunblocker foil is a bit of shiny insulation.  It will help a little bit not much.


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #12592237 - 05/19/10 01:32 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Thermal imaging devices measure the temperature of the outside of your house, vents, etc.  There is no foil that you can use to affect their reading.



there is a bubble foil you can use to insulate the room and prevent radiant heat from escaping. It has been tested with  thermal imaging to see if it block heat signals. It prevents over 90% of radiant heat from escaping and appearing on a thermal image.

Its called Sunblocker foil.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #12594702 - 05/19/10 08:54 PM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Thermal imaging devices measure the temperature of the outside of your house, vents, etc.  There is no foil that you can use to affect their reading.



there is a bubble foil you can use to insulate the room and prevent radiant heat from escaping. It has been tested with  thermal imaging to see if it block heat signals. It prevents over 90% of radiant heat from escaping and appearing on a thermal image.

Its called Sunblocker foil.





I am sure it blocks some but I doubt it blocks 90%.  A hot room is a hot room.  I would use regular insulation covered with tinfoil instead.


Not really an issue in the USA due to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyllo_v._United_States

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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #12597689 - 05/20/10 11:58 AM (14 years, 2 days ago)

> Its called Sunblocker foil.

That won't do shit for you.  So it takes a bit longer for your room walls to heat up, they'll still hit the same temp and look the same on a thermal.

Besides it doesn't really address the issue.  Big lights generate heat, which has to be vented or your plants/etc. will die.  You also have to vent the O2.

Thermal imaging devices will have no problem seeing a HUGE cloud of exhausted heat coming out of your home.  Nobody except growers will be venting a shit-ton of heat like that.

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Not really an issue in the USA due to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyllo_v._United_States




Don't kid yourself.  Cops are the dirtiest, sneakiest motherfuckers alive!  They have no problem thermal imaging you and then phoning in an "anonymous tip", or paying a snitch to lie, or claiming they noticed power spikes, or they smelled it, or any number of other bogus lies to get a search warrant or start pulling your trash and surveiling you.

All that law really means is that they can't openly admit that they used thermal imaging or get a warrant based on it.  You'd be amazed how much time they still spend "looking for fires", "tracking wildlife", and other bullshit reasons.  Surprising how often their flight plan includes circling or hovering around a city.


-FF

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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: fastfred]
    #12598036 - 05/20/10 01:07 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
> Its called Sunblocker foil.

That won't do shit for you.  So it takes a bit longer for your room walls to heat up, they'll still hit the same temp and look the same on a thermal.

Besides it doesn't really address the issue.  Big lights generate heat, which has to be vented or your plants/etc. will die.  You also have to vent the O2.

Thermal imaging devices will have no problem seeing a HUGE cloud of exhausted heat coming out of your home.  Nobody except growers will be venting a shit-ton of heat like that.





thats why you simply vent into an adjacent, cooler room or attic instead of exhausting outside. If you arent running several thousand watts this is quite feasible, people do it all the time.

Sun blocker works. We have customers buy it at the store i work at all the time and no one that purchased has had a problem or a raid.


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Anonymous #2

Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #12598391 - 05/20/10 02:07 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:

Sun blocker works. We have customers buy it at the store i work at all the time and no one that purchased has had a problem or a raid.




well that doesn't prove anything at all. people that buy that stuff are more likely to be more secure in every way and other factors... but i agree that it probably does work (just not that what you offer is any sort of "proof" of that.)

so anyway, a lot of times these ir guns are in cars, not helicopters like so many think (operation cost is a lot less here of course.) spreading the heat is the best bet, like someone mentioned, heat into another cooled room, into an attic or whatever is a really solid way to avoid detection. the ir heat signature resistant foil can't hurt.

this is probably the least likely route of detection anyway (ir guns.) biggest risks would probably be 1) telling anyone, even your fucking dog 2) rats (guy you sell to get busted and rolls) 3) stealing power 4) growing in a rental 5) you'd already be suspected (prolly due to something from 1-4) and get trash grabbed and house ir'd, maybe a knock and talk with the famous "i smell marijuana when you opened the door"

^all my opinion of course

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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #12598655 - 05/20/10 02:52 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

> Sun blocker works.

Sun blocker does NOT work unless it is somehow able to violate the laws of physics.  In fact it can't even work as well as insulation since it has a lower R-value.

Your grow room is going to run at a significantly higher temp than the rest of the rooms.  A 1/4 inch of R-5 "sunblocker" is not going to prevent the outside walls of that room from heating up!  Thus it will show on thermal.

It's simple physics.  Even if you slow the transfer of heat to the walls it will still hit the SAME temp, just perhaps 20 minutes later than it would without insulation.

Thermal imaging is not measuring infrared coming from your lamps, it is measuring the heat of the walls of your house.  Because your grow room is hotter than every other room in the house.

Here is a thermal image...


You don't see inside the house, all you see is the temperature of the surface of the house.  The red parts are where the sun is hitting and keeping things warm.


-FF

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Anonymous #2

Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: fastfred]
    #12598811 - 05/20/10 03:16 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

seeing as an ideal lights on temp for cannabis is 75F if your grow room is hotter than your other rooms you're doing it wrong. that anti detection foil is supposed to prevent hot spots from forming, wether it actually works (or is better then just regular mylar) i don't care to argue about really. the main thing is as long as we are talking like 6k watts or less, if you set up the room properly (ballast outsid the room, a/c, proper venting into another insulated room or attic (careful you're not melting snow on your attic!) your house is not going to dramatically stand out more than others and get you busted on that alone.

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Anonymous #2

Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #12598832 - 05/20/10 03:19 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

also that anti-detection foil is used a lot of times in "grow tents" allegedly preventing the heat from "leaking" where you do not want it to go. so you keep all your heat producing things in there and vent the heat out and spread it around and rather than having a "hotspot" in your house it just raises the ambient temps of the entire house/attic.

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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: fastfred]
    #12598891 - 05/20/10 03:29 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
> Sun blocker works.

Sun blocker does NOT work unless it is somehow able to violate the laws of physics.  In fact it can't even work as well as insulation since it has a lower R-value.

Your grow room is going to run at a significantly higher temp than the rest of the rooms.  A 1/4 inch of R-5 "sunblocker" is not going to prevent the outside walls of that room from heating up!  Thus it will show on thermal.






I just spoke with NGW wholesale and was told they tested this product with 6 grand worth of thermal imaging equipment in rooms running up to 2 1000w HPS both air-cooled and non air cooled. It does what it says and provides a radiant barrier against heat in both scenarios; although significantly better with the air-cooled lights.

:shrug:

If you can prove it doesn't work other than condescending with talk about physics i will happily stop telling people that the product does what the manufacturer says it does. have a nice day.


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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #12598898 - 05/20/10 03:30 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

> seeing as an ideal lights on temp for cannabis is 75F if your grow room is hotter than your other rooms you're doing it wrong.

LOL, you must not have any experience here.  Ideal temp and what you can really do are two different things.

> as long as we are talking like 6k watts or less, if you set up the room properly

Again, I don't think you really know what you're talking about.  One 1,000 watt light running 12 hrs/day will heat an average sized 2 bedroom apartment all by itself, through the entire winter.  And that's in a snow-on-the-ground area winter.

There's no way to dispose of that much heat.  If you pump into your attic your whole roof is going to light up like the 4th of July on a thermal imager.  If you pump it outside they're going to wonder why it looks like you have a massive heater blowing right out the window.

Optimal weed growing temp is around 85F BTW.  And pumping into other rooms isn't really an option unless you like it reeking to high heaven and hot as fuck.  You'll also end up with massive condensation and mold everywhere.  It's easy to spot grow houses by the condensation on the window.

I know all this because I've run 1000w lights for my tomato plants before and dealt with the problems.


-FF

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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #12598941 - 05/20/10 03:38 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
I just spoke with NGW wholesale and was told they tested this product with 6 grand worth of thermal imaging equipment in rooms running up to 2 1000w HPS both air-cooled and non air cooled. It does what it says and provides a radiant barrier against heat in both scenarios; although significantly better with the air-cooled lights.

If you can prove it doesn't work other than condescending with talk about physics i will happily stop telling people that the product does what the manufacturer says it does. have a nice day.




It may spread the heat around a bit and prevent obvious and glaring hotspots, but you're misrepresenting what it could possibly do.

They don't need to find a hotspot, and if you have an attic above your grow space it won't show up anyways.  But that's not how they find grow houses anyways, so it really provides no additional security.

There's no way around the third law of thermodynamics.  Lights generate a SHIT TON of heat and that has to go somewhere.  Your house will either be stupid hot (which they will pick up) or you'll be venting a ton of hot air outside (which they will pick up).  There's just absolutely no way around this that doesn't violate the basic laws of physics.


-FF

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Anonymous #2

Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: fastfred]
    #12599050 - 05/20/10 03:54 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

i know enough about it and we'll leave it at that. not really cool to just automatically assume everyone responding is a total dumbass with no experience, i have plenty; much more then you unless you're also being extremely guarded in your comments(in my past of course.) it is easy to keep a grow room at 75F if you do it right, and is done by many many people. proper ventilation and a/c (if grow is big enough) is the top priority for setting up a grow room. 85F is a good temp with added co2, without it a lower temp is better (mid 70s to 80 max), but also not here to argue what can easily be read at icmag or whatever.

also you use carbon filters (another 100% must have) and if humidity is a problem like you state there's also dehumidifiers. all of this is extremely common knowledge and any serious grower takes these measures. if what yous aid was even half true these guys running huge op's and grow logs on icmag and similar sites would be getting busted left and right, which they are not because they run a tight ship and avoid all the other huge risk factors i posted earlier.

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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #12599367 - 05/20/10 04:47 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

> not really cool to just automatically assume everyone responding is a total dumbass with no experience,

I didn't mean it that way.  IME I had trouble keeping the temps down with one 1000w light.  It heated my place almost entirely for the whole winter.  I can't imagine doing it during the summer or with more lights.

My idea was to keep the tomato smell down and heat my place with the light to save on electricity.  I had a greenhouse within a room.  The greenhouse vented with a large box fan into the room.  I had an ozone generator in that room to help treat the air.  From there the air went into my bathroom through a vent under the bathroom sink.  The air then circulated throughout my place and at night I would run a box fan in my kitchen window to take it outside.

My biggest error was not sucking in fresh air to have a one-way system.  It ended up sucking air from outside the room into the room, mixing with the room air, then mixing the greenhouse with the room air and so forth.  There's really not a lot I could have done since I couldn't make major changes to the outside of my place.

Anyways, to see someone poo-pooing the difficulty of keeping a 1000w light area cool just made me think you hadn't dealt with it before.

If you've got a good setup and can do whatever you want it's probably not that difficult.  I'm just saying that a 1000w light will easily heat a mid-sized 2bdr apartment, and it can get pretty hot even with a box-fan in the window circulating air out of your place, even in the winter.


-FF

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Re: 6500K CFL Lighting [Re: fastfred]
    #12600643 - 05/20/10 08:16 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

So this thread was initially about 6500K CFL lighting, which produces no heat.  The past 8 or so posts arguing about heat deflecting foils and thermal imaging have zero to do with CFLs.

Just dont want to scare the original poster here with all your pot-growing debates.

Homie was scared of hooking up an 8 watt lightbulb or two, having 0 effect on how the police would 'thermal image' your house.

Thread has gone wayyy too far.

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