Home | Community | Message Board



Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 6 months, 24 days
Putting our thoughts into androids
    #1252420 - 01/27/03 08:46 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I was just watching the original Star trek, it was the one where Dr. Korby is lost on this planet for a few years and invents a way to make any persons image into an android. Then he tells kirk that he can not only make an android that looks like an android, but he can make an android that posseses any persons thoughts and soul. And the person doesnt get hurt either.

This got me thinking. So if i could just transfer my thoughts and memories into a computer and perhaps upload all that computer stuff into an android that looked exactly like me, i could live forever.

But then there would be two of me. One real me and one android.
The android would wake up and think "sweet, im the android. i have all of jons memories and i look like him, but im going to live a hell of a lot longer".
The real me would wake up from the proceedure and think "Well, im not going to live anylonger than i would have otherwise, but at least i know that a little part of me is going to be happy living a fuck of a long time"

I also think it would feel really shitty knowing that you wont get to live (almost) forever, but that someone masquerading around as you would.


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTaliesy
Peon
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 12
Loc: In ages past, when spells...
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1252827 - 01/27/03 10:57 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

A couple questions arise.
What is a soul?
Can a soul be duplicated?

"i have all of jons memories and i look like him"
In my opinion his thoughts would be, look at my former flesh bag self someday going to die.

It is my understanding that a soul is what makes you, you. These deep thoughts that you experience are a result of a soul and if this robot had your soul or a perfect copy of your soul he would in essence be you.
"a little part of me is going to be happy living a fuck of a long time"
More like you are going to live a long time, neither of you would be able to say for a fact that the other isn't "you" (by you i mean the former fleshbag with a original soul). Both of you would think that they posses "your" (former fleshbag reference again) soul.

Do some research on Metaphysics and Epistemology if this sort of thing interests you.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinediggitydankman
No longer aCannabisConnoisseur

Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 479
Loc: Michgan
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1252842 - 01/27/03 11:02 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

One big problem : counsciousness, which computers do not possess.


--------------------
"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblexnevermore
? Ω?

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 282
Loc: The Twilight Zone
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1252955 - 01/27/03 11:42 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

One big problem : counsciousness, which computers do not possess.
They could be programmed to have conciousness, just as we have. I don't see how artificial conciousness is any different from the natural kind.

Also, this seems like a science post, so lets try to keep it scientific. None of this soul nonsense.


--------------------
- xnevermore


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinediggitydankman
No longer aCannabisConnoisseur

Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 479
Loc: Michgan
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: xnevermore]
    #1252990 - 01/27/03 11:53 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

It will be a while before any processor has the ability to process information at the rate our brain does; not sure but I believe it is somewhere around 3 terrabytes. This is counsciousness along with realizing who, what and why we are hear on this planet.


--------------------
"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 6 months, 24 days
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1253032 - 01/27/03 12:03 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I read somewhere that ibm or some japanese firm has just created the worlds fastest supercomputer, or actually they built two of them i think, any\way.
SO this computer is suposed to be able to process at the same incredibly insanely fast speed as it matches what the human brain is suposed to be able to calculate at.

so. even today we can make computers fast. we just have no where near the programing to make an artificial intelligence. We also dont have a way to tranfer human memories into a computer. we also dont have a machine that "thinks" (or processes) the same way the brain does. SO if we stuck someones brain into one of these fast calculators, they wouldnt be able to "think" because the process of a computer is different than the brain.

what was my point? oh ya, if a human brain has memories, and thought patterns and whatever, and we duplicate these into a machine, and make the machine think the same as our brain, then it wouldnt be too hard to see one of these machines as conscious just like we are. It thinks like a human, it talks like a human, it feels like a human, must be at least a little close to one, even if its not made of blood. Which is an advantage if you ask me.

Look at bender, he is always touting about how his metalic body is better than meatbags.


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: xnevermore]
    #1253067 - 01/27/03 12:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

There's no such thing as "artificial consciousness." It would either be conscious or not.

Are WE really even conscious?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 6 months, 24 days
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: Strumpling]
    #1253084 - 01/27/03 12:15 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

what do you need to be consious? hmm? define it. we will do this the long way...


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1253115 - 01/27/03 12:23 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

define:

from www.dictionary.com there are quite a few:

The state or condition of being conscious.
A sense of one's personal or collective identity, including the attitudes, beliefs, and sensitivities held by or considered characteristic of an individual or group: Love of freedom runs deep in the national consciousness.

Special awareness or sensitivity: class consciousness; race consciousness.
Alertness to or concern for a particular issue or situation: a movement aimed at raising the general public's consciousness of social injustice.
In psychoanalysis, the conscious.

1. The state of being conscious; knowledge of one's own existence, condition, sensations, mental operations, acts, etc.

Consciousness is thus, on the one hand, the recognition by the mind or ``ego'' of its acts and affections; -- in other words, the self-affirmation that certain modifications are known by me, and that these modifications are mine. --Sir W. Hamilton.

2. Immediate knowledge or perception of the presence of any object, state, or sensation. See the Note under Attention.

Annihilate the consciousness of the object, you annihilate the consciousness of the operation. --Sir W. Hamilton.

And, when the steam Which overflowed the soul had passed away, A consciousness remained that it had left. . . . images and precious thoughts That shall not die, and can not be destroyed. --Wordsworth.

The consciousness of wrong brought with it the consciousness of weakness. --Froude.

3. Feeling, persuasion, or expectation; esp., inward sense of guilt or innocence. [R.]

An honest mind is not in the power of a dishonest: to break its peace there must be some guilt or consciousness. --Pope.

1: an alert cognitive state in which you are aware of yourself and your situation; "he lost consciousness" [ant: unconsciousness] 2: having knowledge of; "he had no awareness of his mistakes"; "his sudden consciousness of the problem he faced"; "their intelligence and general knowingness was impressive" [syn: awareness, cognizance, knowingness]

So the consensus seems to be self-awareness. Computers can be programmed to watch all of their own activities and carefully take note as to various errors or things like that, which in a sense, is self-awareness.

I was merely responding to the term "artificial consciousness," which is impossible in my opinion. Its either conscious or its not.... it can't artificially be self-aware.

I feel that computers can be programmed to be conscious of themselves AND us, we just have to give them better senses, which requires dipping into and combining many other feilds; particularly, BIOLOGY, NANO-TECHNOLOGY, CHEMISTRY, and naturally PHYSICS (so the damn things don't fall over and break themselves) will assist us in creating machines that are way more perceptive than us.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (01/27/03 12:26 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1253343 - 01/27/03 01:26 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Putting our thoughts into androids

the next step in evolution?

or maybe it would be the opposite.
maybe artificial intelligence will find human bodies to be good vessels for their consicousness.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 6 months, 24 days
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: Strumpling]
    #1253579 - 01/27/03 02:51 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

ok, so an android that has all our thoughts and feelings wouldnt be consious because why?

just because its a machine, doesnt mean it cant understand.


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblexnevermore
? Ω?

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 282
Loc: The Twilight Zone
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: Strumpling]
    #1253629 - 01/27/03 03:06 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

There's no such thing as "artificial consciousness." It would either be conscious or not.


ar?ti?fi?cial Audio pronunciation of artificial ( P ) Pronunciation Key (?rt-fshl)
adj.

1.
a. Made by humans; produced rather than natural.
b. Brought about or caused by sociopolitical or other human-generated forces or influences: set up artificial barriers against women and minorities; an artificial economic boom.
2. Made in imitation of something natural; simulated: artificial teeth.
3. Not genuine or natural: an artificial smile.


Anything that's man-made rather than natural can be and IS "artificial".


--------------------
- xnevermore


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: xnevermore]
    #1254749 - 01/28/03 08:54 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

rofl thats absurd.

So anything we make isn't natural? We're part of natural.

Apes made US, so we're not natural either then. U see what I mean?

Don't let semantics get in the way.. in my opinion everything's natural.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (01/28/03 08:55 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 6 months, 24 days
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: Strumpling]
    #1255070 - 01/28/03 10:32 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

well good. then where is the problem with having our conciousness stored in a computer/android?


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: Strumpling]
    #1255247 - 01/28/03 11:29 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


So anything we make isn't natural? We're part of natural.
.. in my opinion everything's natural.




Strumpling is correct. We are natures way of extruding technology. We are the critters Earth is using to hardwire herself for the next stage in her evolving consciousness. Can't suck at mommies teat forever.


--------------------
* * * * * * * * * *
Read the Landotter's Mystical Journey Journal


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1255388 - 01/28/03 12:21 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I never said we couldn't make conscious computers.... I was just trying to say that "artificial" consciousness would still be REAL, NATURAL consciousness, just as ours is.

Edit (addition): "ok, so an android that has all our thoughts and feelings wouldnt be consious because why?

just because its a machine, doesnt mean it cant understand."

Hehe it looks like you think I'm arguing against you but I'm certainly not! I think its possible :smile: I guess its my fault, though, as I went a bit off topic on the term "artificial consciousness." Just because something's man-made doesn't make it unnatural. A factory is no more unnatural than a bird's nest, a bee hive, an anthill, or a sheltering cave for that matter :-D

I feel we WILL create intelligent machines, although I don't think we'll need to fill them with human memories and thoughts - I think we would let them develop their own thoughts and memories so as to gain their own identities.

Kinda funny to think that our first contact with other conscious beings may not be aliens from another dimension or realm or galaxy, but beings created from our own aspirations and dreams. You want aliens? Mankind will build them.

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
And I feel they will help us in ways we would have never dreamed of. Computers are already doing this on very fundamental levels.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (01/28/03 12:36 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblexnevermore
? Ω?

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 282
Loc: The Twilight Zone
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: Strumpling]
    #1255474 - 01/28/03 12:46 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I see what you mean, but just because your definition isn't the same as the one agreed upon by the majority is no reason to attack my use of the word. According to just about any dictionary, my use of the word is correct.


--------------------
- xnevermore


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: xnevermore]
    #1255591 - 01/28/03 01:30 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

OK then, but you claimed that "artificial" meant un-natural.

"Anything that's man-made rather than natural can be and IS 'artificial'."

I now understand the definition, and admit I didn't before, but I still feel that anything man-made is 100% natural. Otherwise, how would we have made it?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (01/28/03 01:30 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblexnevermore
? Ω?

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 282
Loc: The Twilight Zone
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: Strumpling]
    #1255939 - 01/28/03 03:43 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

nat?u?ral Audio pronunciation of natural ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nchr-l, nchrl)
adj.
1. Present in or produced by nature: a natural pearl.
2. Of, relating to, or concerning nature: a natural environment.
3. Conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature: a natural death.
4.
a. Not acquired; inherent: Love of power is natural to some people.
b. Having a particular character by nature: a natural leader.
c. Biology. Not produced or changed artificially; not conditioned: natural immunity; a natural reflex.

So if artificial means "man-made" and something that is natural cannot be artifical, then something that's man-made is not natural.


--------------------
- xnevermore


Edited by xnevermore (01/28/03 03:45 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Putting our thoughts into androids [Re: xnevermore]
    #1256094 - 01/28/03 04:34 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

that's a paradox in my opinion.

man-made = nature-made. we are part of nature. Is a bee-hive natural?

how long do you want to keep doing this?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (01/28/03 04:36 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Watching our Thought and Emotions
( 1 2 all )
JoseLibrado 1,834 36 06/07/08 09:07 PM
by backfromthedead
* Just a thought on TV and mind control.
( 1 2 all )
Droz 1,861 22 05/24/07 10:43 PM
by Lion
* The possibility of us just being artificial intelligence?
BrainChemicals
1,155 8 04/19/07 08:14 AM
by trendal
* projecting thoughts (artificial entities) Monkah 1,096 11 11/12/02 06:59 PM
by FreakQlibrium
* Artificial Intelligence and Free Will
( 1 2 3 all )
xnevermore 2,247 41 11/25/02 02:39 AM
by Anonymous
* The new thought
( 1 2 all )
Moonshoe 3,262 27 09/22/04 12:31 AM
by gettinjiggywithit
* Chinese Room Thought Experiment Ravus 733 13 08/16/05 01:48 AM
by LipaYai5
* BEWARE ARTIFICIAL SYNCHRONICITY, and Psychic Vampires sumthinesoteric 3,111 12 03/31/04 03:10 PM
by Phoshaman

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
1,436 topic views. 2 members, 5 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Original Seeds Store - Cannabis Seeds
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.094 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 16 queries.