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 learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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 Re: Sexual attraction is not natural.  [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#12521614 - 05/07/10 10:44 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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You are so wrong that I want to punch you.
1. Epigenetics
2. Environmental factors
3. genetic mutation
The entire point of your genes is for you to have sex and make babies. Some people don't have babies, does that mean that everything we know about genes is wrong? no.
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Edited by learningtofly (05/07/10 10:48 AM)
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AlphaFalfa
imagine
Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. 
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: learningtofly]
#12521839 - 05/07/10 11:48 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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The way you argue is so flawed that I won't respond. What the Fuck does listing concepts do????? Are you crazy? Do you have any background in argumentation or are you just some pompous nut that gets off when people dont understand what he is saying and thinks its because of their own genius.
Fuck damn. Just go away.
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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#12521989 - 05/07/10 12:25 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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You have yet to refute a single point that i've made, and you say that I have a problem with argumentation?
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,458
Loc: Northeast
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: learningtofly]
#12522292 - 05/07/10 01:31 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Has anyone mentioned that even if sexual attraction isn't gene-motivated, it would still be natural? Even psychological preferences are as natural as the trees.
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,458
Loc: Northeast
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: xFrockx]
#12522317 - 05/07/10 01:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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"The entire point of your genes is for you to have sex and make babies. "
Now hold on. Genes are the code for the creation of protiens and the structure of your body, are they not?
And you, you are the body which your genes code for.
However, genes aren't your body, they are part of your body, namely, what your body makes itself using.
So even if genes make your body a certain way, they don't influence anything other than the creation of it in its form. Saying genes guide in sexual preference, or attraction, would be like saying the construction workers who built the death star guide the use of its laser. Darth Vader points the laser, and you point your focus, and sex organs.
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numonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!
Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2,500
Loc: A Tree
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: appleorange]
#12522660 - 05/07/10 02:37 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Genes can occur via random mutation.
Yeah, but them being expressed, and whether or not it is due to larger spans of genetic material as opposed to the individual gene, is something else.
The genes make protein, the culture makes the synapse connections make sense. A theory anyway.
If sexual attraction is not natural than there are no reproducing mammals, (or any other sexual species that require sexual reproduction), prior to language and culture.
Maybe I just missed the OP's point, but my sexual attraction during a period of deafness, or being unable to speak to another or notice difference in clothing, seemed pretty fucking natural. It started at the age of five. No less natural than a water-fountain in an elementary-school building.
~Monk
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AlphaFalfa
imagine
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: numonkei]
#12523733 - 05/07/10 06:55 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Your definition of natural cannot be the one i outlined then...by natural i meant uninfluenced by the psychological activities of an organism. That was not the actual definition, it is much more clear, however.
i have alterted my sexual preference and i continue to refine it every day by practicing concious masterbation(questioning, analyzation and altering of feelings), also concious sexual intercourse as well. it works - i am no longer sexual aroused by porno or people i just meet....it's pretty sweet.
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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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AlphaFalfa
imagine
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: learningtofly]
#12523785 - 05/07/10 07:04 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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My initial argument refutes all your arguments.
Prove to me how masturbation and more importantly, the sexual response, as experienced by human beings, can be at all natural(uninfluenced by psychological activities of that person). if you cant, then i still conclude that since, the sexual response does not require the influence of natural processes to be acheived, then sexuality(as a sum of all the sexual responses known possible) is purely psychological and not natural.
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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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 appleorange
Rainbow Technician
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#12523828 - 05/07/10 07:11 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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sexual arousal has to be physiological because it requires a penis.
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: appleorange]
#12523829 - 05/07/10 07:11 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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or vagina if you got one of those.
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: appleorange]
#12524081 - 05/07/10 07:55 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
appleorange said:
or vagina if you got one of those.
check.
i'm gonna break up this sausage fest.
1) your definition of 'natural' is troublesome, because it seems to suggest that psychological happenings aren't 'natural', but then you go on to use examples of your own 'mind-against-sexuality-training' to help support your point.
2) you posted some naked chick cause you felt 'hungry'? Hunger is pretty natural, right? We gotta eat.
3) Sexual tension is a real thing, and if you don't consciously attend to it, you're going to unconsciously do it. If it's built up enough, your body will give itself what it wants via dreams. There are studies where scientists have measured bodily functions whilst people sleep, and recorded the person's dream afterward. People can orgasm in their sleep during sex dreams. Been there, done that. 
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full blown human
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auxiliary
Mr.
Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 2,278
Loc: Thatoneville
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: Penelope_Tree]
#12524192 - 05/07/10 08:17 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
penelope_tree said:
3) Sexual tension is a real thing, and if you don't consciously attend to it, you're going to unconsciously do it.
You can consciously make the decision to not be affected by it, but it is impossible to do anything unconsciously.
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: auxiliary]
#12524267 - 05/07/10 08:34 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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"The Stephen Laberge research was only conducted on a few people but both sexes identified the sex they had in dreams as feeling exactly the same as it did in real life. Physiologically sex in dreams also caused the same reactions to the body as sex in real life. Respiration increased, blood flow increased, and muscles contracted. " - link
i'm not sure what you mean by 'consciously make a decision to not be affected'. there's this thing called spontaneous orgasm which happens without stimuli, supposedly. it's also in line with dream orgasm, so i think. yeah, i'm linking to wiki, whataboutit. - spontaneous orgasm
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AlphaFalfa
imagine
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: Penelope_Tree]
#12525078 - 05/07/10 11:33 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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I stand completly corrected, masturbation is not the best example. The best example is being able to orgasm in your sleep. I also find that it is quite incorrect to say that homexuality is right because its natural.
It makes no difference, wrong or right.
And another thing, there is no point of analyzing the intentions for my post.
I will say this again and again, from now on, this place is no more a place for me to gain respect than the respect you gain from a damn exciting book or movie and sometimes soap opera and sometimes, actually mostly soap. Forget that one, just lather and rinse.
Oh and another interesting thing came up, what about that girl who was brought up by wolves....If the hypothesis that sexual response is unconcious and uninhibited by experience, then why did that girl brought up by wolves, hump people or attempt to lodge a penis up her vagina, or attempted rub her cunt with another one vagina? hahah, in short, why did her sexual response appear inexistent????? Don't tell me she didn't want to cheat on her doggy buddies back in the forest. hahaha.....honestly, sex is obviously experientially sourced.
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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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AlphaFalfa
imagine
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Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago.
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#12525107 - 05/07/10 11:38 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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GhengisKhan
Stranger
Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 101
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#12539519 - 05/10/10 07:58 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well, rather than address your arguments directly it might be more prudent just to say how it is.
Genes build brains and bodies that behave/enjoy/seek/etc. things that led to the reproductive success of ancestors.
This does not mean that any domain in which we have some apparent mental control over (arousal in this case) does not have a genetic basis.
Every behavior has genetic basis, because genes build the material substrate for the mind. You have never a had a thought without your brain.
I suppose your argument is somewhat internally consistent but your premises aren't really based on anything.
The word natural is basically useless because wherever we stick it as a boundary, we are just making up some definition for it.
Everything that happens is natural
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"When any answer is possible all answers are meaningless" --Isaac Asimov
"Pour me a drink so I can refuse to toast" --Lorie Moore
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: GhengisKhan]
#12539660 - 05/10/10 08:24 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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My whole argument was in the context of use and not so much drawing up distinctions about what is or isn't.
I've come to the conclusion that assuming we have no creative influence on our sexual response is invalid and limited. In fact I agree with natural and it's uselessness, it merly was useful here to expose a limitation on our thinking about the sexual response.
I for one have been able to manipulate my sexual response. I do so in response to various assumptions I draw about my environment. For example, a majority of people who have sex with multiple partners have a STD. However, I was brought up with moralistic views of sex that caused me to ironically require multiple partners to be sexually satisfied, an addiction to porno was the result and luckily no disease struck me. Being able to realize this, I recently began to alter my sexual response to match this social environment we live in and the results were less of a sense of loss in not partaking in permiscious acts and more satisfaction with my one partner.
Cheers,
Double Ay
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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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GhengisKhan
Stranger
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Re: Sexual attraction is not natural. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#12539851 - 05/10/10 08:54 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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that is interesting
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"When any answer is possible all answers are meaningless" --Isaac Asimov
"Pour me a drink so I can refuse to toast" --Lorie Moore
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