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subiedude
SUBIE!!!



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Question about getting raided
#12516530 - 05/06/10 12:34 PM (14 years, 16 days ago) |
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if someone got raided but all they had were a bunch of jars and tubs with holes in them, (no grow in process)is that good enough for conspiracy or anything?
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2859558484
Growery is Better



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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: subiedude]
#12517363 - 05/06/10 02:57 PM (14 years, 16 days ago) |
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if the jars have mycellium developing then they will test positive for illegal chemicals.
If theres no mycellium and you tell the cops they are for growing illegal mushrooms then you could get conspriacy.
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fastfred
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: 2859558484]
#12518308 - 05/06/10 06:04 PM (14 years, 16 days ago) |
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You need at least two people for a conspiracy.
-FF
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2859558484
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: fastfred]
#12518349 - 05/06/10 06:14 PM (14 years, 16 days ago) |
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i dont know how to spell it either
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Khaos


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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: 2859558484]
#12519873 - 05/06/10 10:55 PM (14 years, 16 days ago) |
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If you told them that they were for cultivation of illegal mushrooms you wouldn't be facing conspiracy as said that is between two or more people.
I believe the charge is called: "Intent to manufacture an illegal substance".
Don't quote me on that as I've lived in 4 countries all with different terms for it but if that is not the exact name its something very close to it.
-------------------- "Surely all Americans have the right to give their money only to those causes which they support. But what kind of society has this created? A society where the ignorant reign. A society where enlightened must hold their tongues. A nation whose politicians must profess half-hearted devotion to an ancient fable or face the disastrous consequences of speaking their true mind." -Chris Mccandless 1987
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: subiedude]
#12520399 - 05/07/10 12:50 AM (14 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
subiedude said: if someone got raided but all they had were a bunch of jars and tubs with holes in them, (no grow in process)is that good enough for conspiracy or anything?
They can get you for intent to manufacture a controlled substance if you have a lot of cube prints laying around. But they probably wouldn't. At that point its an oyster grow, it would work its way through the court system for awhile and eventually get dismissed.
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fastfred
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intent to manufacture a controlled substance
Ok, just to stop this here... There is no such thing as "intent to manufacture a controlled substance". Intent is not illegal, attempt is.
You can think and plan in your head all you want, and even acquire supplies, etc.. It's not illegal until you attempt it without a conspiracy.
So just to get that straight "intent" to do anything is not illegal. The thought police haven't gotten that much power yet.
-FF
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c1dh3d
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: fastfred]
#12521745 - 05/07/10 11:24 AM (14 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
... yet.
-FF
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: fastfred]
#12521986 - 05/07/10 12:24 PM (14 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ok, just to stop this here... There is no such thing as "intent to manufacture a controlled substance". Intent is not illegal, attempt is.
I meant attempt, not intent.
Quote:
You can think and plan in your head all you want, and even acquire supplies, etc.. It's not illegal until you attempt it without a conspiracy.
Good point. If you agree to do something with someone and aquire supplies its a felony, but if you are doing it on your own and aquire supplies to do it, its not illegal until you actually attempt to do it.
Quote:
So just to get that straight "intent" to do anything is not illegal. The thought police haven't gotten that much power yet.
Thank god! Unfortunately the thought police have significant power due to conspiracy laws.
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fastfred
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> Unfortunately the thought police have significant power due to conspiracy laws.
That's true! I always try to point out how easy it is to be guilty of conspiracy.
> if you are doing it on your own and acquire supplies to do it, its not illegal until you actually attempt to do it.
It's also important to know that the exact nature of the attempt is debatable. Sometimes acquiring certain supplies combined with demonstrated intent can constitute the attempt. Prosecutors are sometimes known to argue that attempting to acquire something constitutes the first part of the attempt to commit an illegal act.
To prove that though they really need a slam dunk case. They need to prove the intent, which is hard. They also really need to prove that acquiring the item was really part of the attempt. e.g. that there's nothing else you could possibly be doing with it other than committing attempt.
In general though, you can have as much intent as you want. It's only when that intent materializes physically as an attempt that it becomes illegal. But when two people have intent together it becomes criminal conspiracy AS SOON AS you make the very first act which helps further the conspiracy in ANY way.
That's why you really, really need to obey the #1 rule, tell nobody!
-FF
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c1dh3d
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: fastfred]
#12525330 - 05/08/10 12:27 AM (14 years, 14 days ago) |
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5 shroom general rating for you FF, you are a real asset to this board
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Anonymous #1
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: fastfred]
#12526856 - 05/08/10 11:40 AM (14 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: > Unfortunately the thought police have significant power due to conspiracy laws.
That's true! I always try to point out how easy it is to be guilty of conspiracy.
> if you are doing it on your own and acquire supplies to do it, its not illegal until you actually attempt to do it.
It's also important to know that the exact nature of the attempt is debatable. Sometimes acquiring certain supplies combined with demonstrated intent can constitute the attempt. Prosecutors are sometimes known to argue that attempting to acquire something constitutes the first part of the attempt to commit an illegal act.
To prove that though they really need a slam dunk case. They need to prove the intent, which is hard. They also really need to prove that acquiring the item was really part of the attempt. e.g. that there's nothing else you could possibly be doing with it other than committing attempt.
In general though, you can have as much intent as you want. It's only when that intent materializes physically as an attempt that it becomes illegal. But when two people have intent together it becomes criminal conspiracy AS SOON AS you make the very first act which helps further the conspiracy in ANY way.
That's why you really, really need to obey the #1 rule, tell nobody!
-FF
You're closer than most people on here, but you're still very wrong on the law.
1.) They don't have to prove there is absolutely nothing else you could do, they merely need to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that you were acquiring them for that purpose AND that purchasing them was a 'substantial step' which is a legal term of art. Intent alone is not enough, american states require that 'substantial step' and for growing magic mushies, acquiring supplies is likely to be enough. (Of course you are always permitted to argue why it is not a substantial step, why you got them for other purpsoes etc. etc.)
2.) Also wrong on conspiracy. Some places require an act in furtherance of the conspiracy, some do not. Our conspiracy laws are horrifying, and under some versions of them you need only an agreement (on the other side of the coin if you take action without an agreement, then an agreement can be inferred depending on the circumstances).
tl;dr-- Attempt and conspiracy law are very broad, and while I'm not speaking as to likelihood, as a legal matter yoou become a criminal long before your first shroom pops up.
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subiedude
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: Anonymous #1]
#12526966 - 05/08/10 12:08 PM (14 years, 14 days ago) |
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so how would one get rid of lots of jars and tubs....you can't just lay em out by the curb and wait for the trash man to come
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c1dh3d
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: subiedude]
#12527031 - 05/08/10 12:26 PM (14 years, 14 days ago) |
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Buy humongous trash bags, put them in your trunk, and empty them out at an apartment dumpster - they are usually near building entrances. Or any business will have one as well.
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fastfred
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: c1dh3d]
#12527386 - 05/08/10 01:59 PM (14 years, 14 days ago) |
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> You're closer than most people on here, but you're still very wrong on the law.
I think we're basically saying the same thing. If you can argue another use for the supply that produces reasonable doubt that it was a "substantial step" in the attempt. If they can't prove that the only reasonable use was in the attempt then there's your reasonable doubt.
And obviously nobody can speak on conspiracy laws in every state, I was talking about the federal standard which most states follow.
-FF
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Sci-Fi
OG


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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: fastfred]
#12527478 - 05/08/10 02:24 PM (14 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: intent to manufacture a controlled substance
Ok, just to stop this here... There is no such thing as "intent to manufacture a controlled substance". Intent is not illegal, attempt is.
You can think and plan in your head all you want, and even acquire supplies, etc.. It's not illegal until you attempt it without a conspiracy.
So just to get that straight "intent" to do anything is not illegal. The thought police haven't gotten that much power yet.
-FF
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/morristown-tn/T3CFH2IKIE31LC5H9
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fastfred
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: Sci-Fi]
#12527854 - 05/08/10 04:23 PM (14 years, 14 days ago) |
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From your link...
Quote:
Morristown police arrested Michael Brady of Russellville Friday after they found him with jars containing clear liquid, plastic tubing, and other paraphernalia that can be used to manufacture methamphetamine.
Police also discovered a storage unit Brady was using that contained more of the same paraphernalia, along with 100 pounds of ammonium nitrate. Brady was charged with five different drug related charges.
Morristown police say there has been a recent increase in the manufacturing of methamphetamine across the state. Brady is being held without bond.
Pretty clear that this was an attempt, if we assume what the police seem to be accusing. But if their story is true then this was actually an attempt to make a bomb, not meth. This is just more stupid press reporting on things they have no knowledge of, with their typical 8th grade level understanding of most subjects. Nothing they even accused him of in the story would even be illegal, yet somehow he is facing 5 charges and being held without bond.
Way to go media!
They apparently didn't get any of the facts right and didn't investigate thoroughly enough to produce an idea of what he's charged with. All of that is public record and in 5 minutes at the court house I could have come up with a 10x better story for the paper that would actually have at least a few facts right and make some sort of sense.
-FF
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camplo
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: fastfred]
#12534953 - 05/09/10 11:54 PM (14 years, 12 days ago) |
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how hard would it be for the cops to identify the mycelium for species in a rye jar.
FYI- there is not any psilocybe / psilocin in the mycelium so testing it for actives would be pointless.
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Khaos


Registered: 03/07/10
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: camplo]
#12535109 - 05/10/10 12:31 AM (14 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
camplo said: how hard would it be for the cops to identify the mycelium for species in a rye jar.
FYI- there is not any psilocybe / psilocin in the mycelium so testing it for actives would be pointless.
Actually there is psilocybin and psilocin in mycelium.
-------------------- "Surely all Americans have the right to give their money only to those causes which they support. But what kind of society has this created? A society where the ignorant reign. A society where enlightened must hold their tongues. A nation whose politicians must profess half-hearted devotion to an ancient fable or face the disastrous consequences of speaking their true mind." -Chris Mccandless 1987
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: camplo]
#12535124 - 05/10/10 12:35 AM (14 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
camplo said: how hard would it be for the cops to identify the mycelium for species in a rye jar.
FYI- there is not any psilocybe / psilocin in the mycelium so testing it for actives would be pointless.
They need to send it to the crime lab and that takes awhile. If you can talk them out of sending it to the crime lab, that would be good. Having an edible grow also will help you be able to do that.
Mycelium of active species bruises blue and is active.
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Sci-Fi
OG


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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: fastfred]
#12535233 - 05/10/10 01:12 AM (14 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: From your link...
Quote:
Morristown police arrested Michael Brady of Russellville Friday after they found him with jars containing clear liquid, plastic tubing, and other paraphernalia that can be used to manufacture methamphetamine.
Police also discovered a storage unit Brady was using that contained more of the same paraphernalia, along with 100 pounds of ammonium nitrate. Brady was charged with five different drug related charges.
Morristown police say there has been a recent increase in the manufacturing of methamphetamine across the state. Brady is being held without bond.
Pretty clear that this was an attempt, if we assume what the police seem to be accusing. But if their story is true then this was actually an attempt to make a bomb, not meth. This is just more stupid press reporting on things they have no knowledge of, with their typical 8th grade level understanding of most subjects. Nothing they even accused him of in the story would even be illegal, yet somehow he is facing 5 charges and being held without bond.
-FF
Apparently there is something called a "shake and bake method" that uses ammonium nitrate (google ammonium nitrate and meth). Since the guy actually had no illegal or controlled substances it was completely based on the intent. The police are saying he was going to do it, but didn't catch him doing it. They found jars and fertilizer and called it a meth lab. I don't know what kind of judge could call that a crime.
If you had jars and tubs could you call it an illegal mushroom lab? Maybe in that county. You could be growing any kind of mushroom with the same equipment. Do you own anything a commercial grower doesn't own? Cube spores would be incriminating not just jars and tubs alone. It may depend on where you live and what kind of asshole you have running the DA's office. If jars and tubs were a crime every commercial grower in the country could be raided.
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fastfred
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Re: Question about getting raided [Re: Sci-Fi]
#12536194 - 05/10/10 10:19 AM (14 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Since the guy actually had no illegal or controlled substances it was completely based on the intent.
Again, intent is NOT illegal.
> It may depend on where you live and what kind of asshole you have running the DA's office.
The law is the law. Intent never has nor ever will be illegal. It is certainly an element in many crimes and you have to prove it to sustain an attempt charge, but it is not in and of its' self illegal.
The actual charges will certainly read "attempted manufacture". Most people, especially our shit-for-brains media, have no clue that there is a difference between intent and attempt, so they use them interchangeably.
-FF
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