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google
Not Stranger



Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 214
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Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye?
#12514702 - 05/06/10 01:07 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye to inoculate it?
Because... it seems as the simplest way.
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StainBlue
Da Man


Registered: 04/11/02
Posts: 392
Last seen: 13 years, 5 days
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Re: Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye? [Re: google]
#12514754 - 05/06/10 01:20 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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You can do that. However, If it's a store bought portobello it probably won't perform as well as it would by starting the grow from a print.
The reason being, as I understand it, is that commercial cultivators usually take their spawn run to the max before ever fruiting it. Meaning they create cultures, then transfer, then transfer, then transfer again etc. And they do this over and over again and usually by the time they fruit it the mycelium is just too tired to keep going. I suppose they do this in order to get the largest crop that they can at harvest.
-------------------- Peace, StainBlue
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google
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Registered: 05/03/10
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Re: Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye? [Re: StainBlue]
#12514770 - 05/06/10 01:27 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Really? Why would they do that? That doesn't make much sense.
I've been reading that it has been done successfully on agar or liquid culture.
There shouldn't be much difference with rye, should there?
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StainBlue
Da Man


Registered: 04/11/02
Posts: 392
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Re: Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye? [Re: google]
#12514817 - 05/06/10 01:38 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
google said: Really? Why would they do that? That doesn't make much sense.
I've been reading that it has been done successfully on agar or liquid culture.
There shouldn't be much difference with rye, should there?
To be honest it doesn't make sense to me either but that's how i understand it's done commercially.
And doing what your asking has been done successfully before as you've stated with all three: agar, LC, and on rye.
The only thing that is really in question is will the fungus perform superbly, average, or at all. I guess what I'm saying is try it. Couldn't hurt to experiment a little, right? And I'm sure you'd get something out of it. It's just a matter of the size of the yeild. You could get a prolific flush or two out of it or maybe just a few mushrooms here and there.
One way to look at it is this: mushroom mycellium is just like any other living organism on the planet. It begins it's life then spends all of it's life consuming nutrients, and water, and eventually reproducing. Then at some point the organism reaches the end of it's life cycle and just kind of gives up and stops eating, drinking, and reproducing. And commercial cultivators take their mushroom cultures right to the edge of dying, so to speak, so that way they can have thousands of colonized rye jars before they fruit it instead of only having say a hundred jars.
Just be prepared if it doesn't perform well while being fruited.
And don't get discouraged if that's the case. Just look at it as experience under your belt.
If you find it fruits really well giving you a decent sized harvest then keep cloning it till it gives up. And make sure you take a print before it does.
-------------------- Peace, StainBlue
Edited by StainBlue (05/06/10 02:01 AM)
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jingus

Registered: 05/04/09
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Re: Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye? [Re: StainBlue]
#12514849 - 05/06/10 01:47 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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so why not buy a mushie from the store, and try to get somewhat of a spore print.
or at least scrape the gills lightly over agar, then clean it up.
at that point, there would be no benefit to buying a spore print vs buying a $2 mushroom down the road. - assuming you can do agar
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StainBlue
Da Man


Registered: 04/11/02
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Re: Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye? [Re: jingus]
#12514862 - 05/06/10 01:53 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
jingus said: so why not buy a mushie from the store, and try to get somewhat of a spore print.
or at least scrape the gills lightly over agar, then clean it up.
at that point, there would be no benefit to buying a spore print vs buying a $2 mushroom down the road. - assuming you can do agar
^^^This is a good idea too.
-------------------- Peace, StainBlue
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Fahkface
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Re: Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye? [Re: jingus]
#12514875 - 05/06/10 01:57 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Really? Why would they do that? That doesn't make much sense.
Commercial mushroom farms use isolates that have shown to perform excellently.
Now, what they do is to get as much spawn as possible before senescence sets in. A mushroom cell is only capable of a certain amount of divisions before the performance noticeably drops. When you make much spawn from few spawn, you logically have a large amount of cell divisions. In order to work as economically as possible the process of spawn increase is exhausted to the maximum.
Now, when you clone a fruit you do nothing more than to exhaust the mycelium even more by provoking more cell divisions, and the performance is likely to be more than poor.
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google
Not Stranger



Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 214
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Re: Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye? [Re: StainBlue]
#12514893 - 05/06/10 02:02 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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I will try to do it in the following 3 ways:
1. Take a tissue sample and inoculate rye jar. 2. Try to make a spore print and inoculate rye with it. 3. Scrape gills lightly over rye jar.
Hopefully something works. I have no desire to work with agar, and see no purpose in it if I am not isolating a single genome.
By the way: is there any benefit in it? lol.
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jingus

Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 1,669
Loc: Oregon, U.S.
Last seen: 11 years, 25 days
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Re: Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye? [Re: google]
#12514901 - 05/06/10 02:05 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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yes dude... if you just 'scrape spores' into a jar, you are going to get a contaminant.
there is all sorts of shit in those, especially by the time they are shipped from wherever in semi-trucks.
i don't care much about isolating either, but the point is to put spores on agar, and you will get a few things growing - contams, and good mycelium.
so you take that mycelium, and transfer it to another agar dish, and after one or two of those, there will be no contaminants.
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google
Not Stranger



Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 214
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Re: Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye? [Re: Fahkface]
#12514922 - 05/06/10 02:09 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Commercial mushroom farms use isolates that have shown to perform excellently.
Now, what they do is to get as much spawn as possible before senescence sets in. A mushroom cell is only capable of a certain amount of divisions before the performance noticeably drops. When you make much spawn from few spawn, you logically have a large amount of cell divisions. In order to work as economically as possible the process of spawn increase is exhausted to the maximum.
Now, when you clone a fruit you do nothing more than to exhaust the mycelium even more by provoking more cell divisions, and the performance is likely to be more than poor.
Oh, ok. That makes sense. So the farmer buys a jar of spawn and uses it to spawn like 10,000 more jars - an amount that he predetermined to be right before senescence sets in. Am I on the right track of understanding?
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Fahkface
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Re: Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye? [Re: google]
#12514930 - 05/06/10 02:11 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Kind of, yes. The track is correct
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StainBlue
Da Man


Registered: 04/11/02
Posts: 392
Last seen: 13 years, 5 days
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Re: Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye? [Re: google]
#12514931 - 05/06/10 02:11 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
google said: I will try to do it in the following 3 ways:
1. Take a tissue sample and inoculate rye jar. 2. Try to make a spore print and inoculate rye with it. 3. Scrape gills lightly over rye jar.
Hopefully something works. I have no desire to work with agar, and see no purpose in it if I am not isolating a single genome.
By the way: is there any benefit in it? lol.
You can try all of those except scraping the gills over the rye jar. Honestly, I don't see that as working out so well. If you were using agar then, yes you could scrape the gills on the agar, then take your time carefully cleaning it up of any contaminations. In the absence of doing it on agar I wouldn't bother if I were you. It most likely won't do anything for you.
That being said, there are huge benefits to isolating on agar. It allows you to carefully examine each culture and pick and choose the traits you are looking for, namely those of strong healthy mycellium. If just using a multispore inoculation into rye jars what you usually end up with is thousands of different germinations each with their own genetic characteristics. Which may ultimately perform well or not so well. Agar let's you get around that and isolate only the best genetics and thus greatly increasing the overall outcome of the the cultivation.
-------------------- Peace, StainBlue
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google
Not Stranger



Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 214
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Re: Can I take a tissue sample of portobello and throw it in sterile rye? [Re: StainBlue]
#12514952 - 05/06/10 02:16 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok. Off to King Soopers, then!
Thanks for all the help, by the way.
This is the best forum I have ever seen!
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