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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
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Loc: In a Tree
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Riots in Greece
#12509204 - 05/05/10 06:27 AM (14 years, 17 days ago) |
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Are craaaaaazzzzzzzzyyy. Definitely in a pretty tough spot. Europe desperately needs to keep the country afloat but nobody wants to help 'em. Pensions at 98% of pay?! I'd be pissed too. No wonder the country is fucked.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: memes]
#12509825 - 05/05/10 10:17 AM (14 years, 17 days ago) |
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This is what happens when a nation encumbered by social welfare implodes.
The bloated public sector has bled the private sector past the point of economic sustainability.
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#12510536 - 05/05/10 12:42 PM (14 years, 17 days ago) |
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"Sovereign debt crisis". Get used to that phrase. You're going to be hearing it a lot soon.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12510793 - 05/05/10 01:31 PM (14 years, 17 days ago) |
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3 dead.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzNkODc3ZTMxMTYwMjRiZDliNmFkMTdlN2Y3YThiYjM=
Quote:
Radio Free New Jersey has an open letter to the Greek protestors. It does not mince words:
Morons,
There is no money. There is no one else’s pocket left to pick. You can’t borrow anymore, you can’t print anymore, and you can’t steal anymore from anyone else.
Of course it’s not just Greece, nor even just Europe. Pick a nation, pick a state, pick a city — Los Angeles, say. The game is up. The grand Ponzi schemes of modern public financing have reached the point where Mr. Ponzi packs his bags and heads for Paraguay.
At the weekend I was chatting with a friend very knowledgeable in the bond and currency markets. I was actually grumbling about my kids. “They live in a virtual world,” I whined, “They don’t seem much interested in doing things or handling things, making things or fixing things. They just want to stare at those fool screens and diddle with those fool touch pads.”
He: “Yeah, well, that virtual world doesn’t have much longer to run. A few years from now, they’ll be obsessing about other things.”
Me: “What kind of other things, d’you think?”
He (after a moment’s thought): “Potatoes.”
It used to be that the leftists and socialists sought to secure for the working man the fruits of his own labor from appropriation by the moneyed barons. Now it seem they want to secure the right to be taken care of at the expense of the fruits of the working man's labor.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#12511513 - 05/05/10 04:00 PM (14 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said: This is what happens when a nation encumbered by social welfare implodes.
this is what happens every year in greece, rioting is their way of life, in fact they have a riot to celebrate the anniversary of riots past
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician



Registered: 12/30/07
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this reminds of the college kids at berkeley throwing a fit because the government was running out of money for student loans.
this is the shit that happens when a country taxes the hell out of its citizens.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


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that's a result of a bunch of spoiled brats that think they're entitled to government money
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
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Greece lost a lot of money in the sub-prime crisis. In order to make their economic portfolio wealthy enough to enter into the EU they had to cook the books and they called in one of the guys (I cannot remember who) who was part in orchestrating a lot of the mortgage securities that caused the US mortgage crisis.
That photo is also not recent. It was from the riots that happened after those cops killed that youth ~1 or 2 years ago. It is not from these riots at all, though I can see why you used it, whoever took that was a good photographer.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
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Whatever. I googled "greece riot" and picked the first pic that didn't suck ass.
Glad you're up to par on knowledge about this stuff though.
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despisedicon
Stranger

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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: memes]
#12517595 - 05/06/10 03:31 PM (14 years, 16 days ago) |
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Haha everyone loves a Greek tragedy. They were living high live off those loans and probably shouldn't have been allowed to enter the EU anyway. Now they are fucked, and don't want to pay the price.
This is the system Obama looks up to.
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
despisedicon said: This is the system Obama looks up to.
it certainly has it's finer points, we rarely have a good firebombing party in the US
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zappaisgod
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We almost had a good one on Times Square the other day. You gotta move where the action is.
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ScavengerType


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Goldman sachs. That's who it was who put together the finances that got Greece into the EU.
Frankly I don't blame them for wanting into the EU, but obviously not only did cooking the books catch up to them, but they also lost a shitload of their finances that they actually did have.
Anyone read the details of the Austerity package being proposed?
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
ScavengerType said: Goldman sachs. That's who it was who put together the finances that got Greece into the EU.

Such glorious ignoranceQuote:
Frankly I don't blame them for wanting into the EU, but obviously not only did cooking the books catch up to them, but they also lost a shitload of their finances that they actually did have.
Yeah, they gave it to a whole shitload of people who don't work. The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said: This is what happens when a nation encumbered by social welfare implodes.
this is what happens every year in greece, rioting is their way of life, in fact they have a riot to celebrate the anniversary of riots past
The circumstances are serious though; Greece is on the verge of insolvency.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.

Sounds like greece needs it's own spin-off of a perestroika
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: memes]
#12521255 - 05/07/10 08:33 AM (14 years, 15 days ago) |
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Here's a good one on the bum culture of Greece http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/germans_must_pay_for_greek_loafers_and_cheats/
Quote:
Tens of thousands of unmarried or divorced daughters of civil servants collect their dead parents’ pensions, weighing on a social security system experts say will collapse in 15 years unless it is overhauled....
While the law protects civil servants from dismissal, it allows them to retire with a pension in their 40s.
Greek pension spending is expected to rise by 12 percent of gross domestic product by 2050, according to EU Commission data. That compares with an EU average of less than 3 percent of GDP…
Labour unions foiled government attempts to sell debt-ridden Olympic Airways for decades, costing Greek taxpayers millions while employees enjoyed generous benefits—their family members could fly around the world for free… Olympic was sold in 2008, but only after the state lavishly compensated or re-hired about 4,600 employees…
The state owns 74 companies, mainly utilities and transport firms, many of which are overstaffed and loss-making, the OECD says…
Hundreds of state-appointed committees employ staff though it is not clear what they all do. Greece has a committee to manage Lake Kopais, which dried out in the 1930s…
But nearly 80 percent of Defence Ministry spending goes on administrative costs and payments of army staff.
What a fair and pleasant place to have not worked. Oopsie.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




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Man, I was born in the wrong decade and in the wrong country.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
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Damn I wish i knew about their country a while ago. Tryin'a live there (although not anymore, obviously)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#12525007 - 05/07/10 11:21 PM (14 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said: This is what happens when a nation encumbered by social welfare implodes.
this is what happens every year in greece, rioting is their way of life, in fact they have a riot to celebrate the anniversary of riots past
The circumstances are serious though; Greece is on the verge of insolvency.
the circumstances around most of their riots are serious and so was I, this is the national past time for these people, every year this shit happens for some reason or another, the often have riots because they had a riot the year before, the anual even started in the 70's over some shit with a students union building, so every year they go there and start a new one
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said: This is what happens when a nation encumbered by social welfare implodes.
this is what happens every year in greece, rioting is their way of life, in fact they have a riot to celebrate the anniversary of riots past
The circumstances are serious though; Greece is on the verge of insolvency.
the circumstances around most of their riots are serious and so was I, this is the national past time for these people, every year this shit happens for some reason or another, the often have riots because they had a riot the year before, the anual even started in the 70's over some shit with a students union building, so every year they go there and start a new one
It appears that the basis of the rioting is morons wanting more socialist welfare...
Astroturf rioting?
Why is the U.S. putting up Greece bailout money?
http://dailycaller.com/2010/05/06/u-s-taxpayers-are-helping-finance-greek-bailout/
Edited by Mr.Al (05/08/10 09:23 AM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#12527520 - 05/08/10 02:36 PM (14 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Why is the U.S. putting up Greece bailout money?
because the US has been all about welfare for decades, it doesnt matter if we can pay our rent as long as we make everyone else happy
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ScavengerType


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They could always make the money back by giving less military aid to fascist dictatorships and faux democracies. In comparison the bailout money to Greece is chump change and worthwhile. Besides, Goldman Sachs is american and ruined Greece's finances and I think they got bailout money from the US as well. Really that money is just money appropriated by the bank who's shady dealings they already bailed out, were it that Sachs didn't fuck with Greece finances they would've had to bail the company out for nearly so much more money anyway.
Frankly I think they should refuse to bail the country out, it should declare international bankruptcy and head the way of Argentina a la "the take". However I suspect the bailout and austerity measures are supposed to be for preventing that anyway.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
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Quote:
ScavengerType said: Besides, Goldman Sachs is american and ruined Greece's finances and I think they got bailout money from the US as well.
Oh man, I was unaware Goldman Sachs was the finance minister in Greece for the past few decades. I didnt know the firm generated the country's unsustainable pension policies, or their hoards of useless government offices.
Plesae STFU.
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ScavengerType


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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: memes]
#12530725 - 05/09/10 08:32 AM (14 years, 13 days ago) |
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Bernanke Says Fed Reviewing Goldman Sachs-Greece Contracts
Quote:
Feb. 26 (Bloomberg) -- Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke said the U.S. central bank is reviewing derivatives contracts arranged between Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and investment banks with Greece.
“We are looking into a number of questions related to Goldman Sachs and other companies and their derivatives arrangements with Greece,” Bernanke said yesterday in testimony before the Senate Banking Committee in Washington.
Bernanke was responding to a question from Senator Christopher Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat, who asked if there should be limits on the use of credit default swaps to prevent “runs against governments.” Greek bonds slid yesterday amid concern the country’s credit ratings may be cut.
I'm sure the country's bloated public sector is a problem, but the debt crisis that is causing the austerity measures that is causing the riots is clearly on the US banks and their funny debt schemes.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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No it isn't. G-S couldn't do anything itself. It is 100% Greek perfidy. Follow the money. Who got the money? Greece. G-S got a relatively small fee. That's it. Dream on.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



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Quote:
zappaisgod said: No it isn't. G-S couldn't do anything itself. It is 100% Greek perfidy. Follow the money. Who got the money? Greece. G-S got a relatively small fee. That's it. Dream on.
You don't know for certain.
There's no way to follow the money at the moment, even Congress doesn't know about the fed's deals with other central banks and nations.
H.R.1207 has 319 cosponsors in Congress and we still do not yet have an up or down vote.
So no zap, we don't have all the information at hand to know where all the money has been going.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#12536478 - 05/10/10 11:28 AM (14 years, 12 days ago) |
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You have got to be kidding. Do you even know what scavenger is talking about?
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



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Quote:
zappaisgod said: You have got to be kidding. Do you even know what scavenger is talking about?
Goldman Sachs in new storm over secret deal to mask Greek debts
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1251280/Goldman-Sachs-new-storm-secret-deal-mask-Greek-debts.html#ixzz0nY8CMqP4
This is what we know about U.S. funds for Greece Bailout:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/we_re_bailing_out_greece_NzQZTSIOLgxboJ6yyOWOpM
What I'm saying is that there may have been funds that we (nor any of our elected officials) know about because the fed can bail out foreign nations with American money without accountability (it is "legal"...)
If we don't know how many dollars are being tossed around we don't know how strong the dollar actually is.
We don't know...
We should know these things.
The dollar's role as the world's reserve fiat currency allows central banks to utilize it to prop up economies that are in crisis.
This can be done, but at the danger of putting the dollar at risk.
The dollar isn't shorted as much as it should, because of that role. This causes the problem of the U.S. federal government spending far beyond it's means because the market correction for the dollar's devaluation (because of inflation of dollar supply) is postponed due to the fact that said international bailouts of nations/central banks have been kept under wraps.
Dig?
Can you say "too big to fail?"
But what happens when too big to fail does just that?
Dollar crisis.
Think '71 but a lot worse...
Edited by Mr.Al (05/10/10 11:52 AM)
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Mountrakker
r2d2



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Redstorm]
#12536558 - 05/10/10 11:51 AM (14 years, 12 days ago) |
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yeah,tell me about it, i'm about to leave gr for good! in the past decades all them political scum put their dirty fingers in worker's pension deposits and bought their ferrari and mansions..while generating even more money through scandalous under-the-table negotiations with Goldman Sachs and other international cuties.. now the IMF stepped in i ain't paying another euro cent in tax to that shit heads that gamble people's savings!
-------------------- Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see. Arthur Schopenhauer
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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You think the problem is big boys raiding pension funds? What pension funds? Workers pension deposits in Greece? They never made any. The Greek "workers" have been slacking off for decades, maybe centuries.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#12537156 - 05/10/10 02:00 PM (14 years, 12 days ago) |
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Good fucking shit, Al. Your link;
Quote:
The Wall Street giant is claimed to have reaped as much as £192million (oh WOW!) in fees by entering a complex currency transaction in 2001 that helped Athens borrow cash without putting it on the books as a loan.
The so-called 'swap' deal, while permitted under EU rules, helped Greece meet eurozone limits on government borrowing.
Let me highlight that for you even more;
WHILE PERMITTED UNDER EU RULES
So these dingbats have their knickers in a twist because they weren't notified about a perfectly legal deal G-S had with Greece that netted them a relatively small pile of peanuts in fees?
The Euroweenies were in such an all fired rush to unify they decided to allow any old jerk-off in their club just to get members. And now they're whining that some of the riff-raff really and truly are no account bums? Spare me.
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Mountrakker
r2d2



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i dont argue that, i do know that all these transactions and decisions where made in obscurity, the ruling party at the time of entering the single currency was boasting about how great they were in governing the country's finances and the people didnt know shit about what the deal was
indeed there are very few products left for greece to export, and in globalized economies, olive oil, oranges, lemons and lignite are not a very trustworthy source of income. Tourism and services should be encouraged and finally be taken seriously if any chance for recovery in the next 5 years still stands, while the average greek joe has to understand that he will not be granted a loan to get his new SUV, BMW, or Mercedes anymore
people have to realize that they can't live on borrowed money, the bankers set up this scam in an ingenious way and i believe it began in the US
the media are hypnotizing people on consumer products they don't really need
just like a bicycle can't cope with a speeding porsche, greeks do not produce exportable goods like the germans do, and painfully that fact is being realized while pointlessly protesting with banners full of socialist ideology from the 80's
-------------------- Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see. Arthur Schopenhauer
Edited by Mountrakker (05/10/10 02:40 PM)
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
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Loc: The North
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Greece’s Economic Crisis and Popular Uprising
Quote:
MARK WEISBROT: Well, the idea, again, is this internal devaluation process. So, instead of trying to grow your way out of a recession, which we’re trying to do—again, you know, not with a sufficient stimulus, but with some stimulus—they’re trying to actually shrink their way out. So the idea is, they literally shrink the economy and try and push down wages and prices.
Wow... just wow.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



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Let me repeat:
The U.S. is bailing out Greece indirectly through the I.M.F., this is what we know.
What none of us know about is any backroom deals that various central banks and nations have with each other.
Again, the U.S. dollar could serve a role in these backroom deals because it is the world reserve fiat currency.
So a shaky Grecian economy can effect the buying power of the dollar.......especially if information about those backroom deals come to light.
Do you know if Goldman Sacs is involved in any of these secret agreements that neither us nor any our elected officials are "allowed" to know about? No. It may be that they have no further involvement beyond what we currently know. We would know either way if we audited the fed. Interesting that Tim Geither used to work for them. Must be a coincidence or something. Does little Timmy support an audit of the fed? (That's an example of a rhetorical question.)
Is it any wonder that it is so difficult to Audit the Fed???
Edited by Mr.Al (05/12/10 10:38 AM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#12548054 - 05/12/10 10:53 AM (14 years, 10 days ago) |
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Why you think a bunch of politicians is a preferred responsible actor in these matters is beyond me. These are the same people who insisted that Fannie and Freddie were solvent and who embarassed themselves greatly during the Goldman-Sachs hearings with their complete and utter ignorance of financial instruments, including some who actually sit on finance commitees. I'd rather have the Fed run by gerbils than politicians.
I believe you are going to get a one-time Fed audit. That passed unanimously.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



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The fed is audited in an extremely limited manner.
The information that needs to come out is all the international deals that the fed is involved in.
Things that could involve propping up foreign economies et cetera.
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#12557504 - 05/13/10 07:29 PM (14 years, 8 days ago) |
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I have to be frank, what Greece really needs to do is deploy import tariffs to protect targeted domestic industries that it wishes to develop. It would probibly want to also subsidize some critical intelectual development in these fields. This worked for Canada, US, South Korea, Great Brittan, Japan and the list goes on. Most nations who want to build strong export industrial sectors do this.
The austerity measures involve let wages fall by creating massive unemployment. This sounds dumber than normal because the country is on the euro. If it had it's own currency the IMF would tell them to devalue it so that their money would be worth less and real wages could be lowered without trying to trigger unemployment manually. Further many public sector utilities will probibly (haven't heard confirmation) end up being liquidated. These will both massively reduce the GDP of the country (inflation/wage decreases) and it will liquidate assets quickly resulting in a short-term increase in capital (make no mistake every buyer will grossly under-pay) long-term revenues will likely decrease with tax revenues. Historical examples of such practices are Jamacia, Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Indonesia, quite a few African countries and many others whom the IMF has imposed these classically retarded austerity policies.
also, the euro is behaving more like gold than a fiat currency al you should be happy not complaining.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



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Import tariffs only prop up industry that have been "protected" by government subsidies for years.
Perhaps it would be more intelligent to discern why particular businesses are not profitable/productive?
If other nations are subject to a Grecian tariff this merely serves the interests of Greek Unions and Greek government bureaucrats. The products and services of the competition are made artificially high. Greeks (who aren't union or government lazy asses) lose out because they have to pay more for both foreign and domestic products.
Need I remind you folks that trade protectionism was one of the ingredients for the Great Depression?
Also recall that Hoover precipitated massive unemployment with his mandated artificially high wage floors. Many fools talked about Hoover being free market. This is an example of revisionist history.
What I am pointing out here is that the artificial job market (strong arm tactics and outrageous corruption from government sector and unions) has caused the unemployment issues in Greece.
Inflating the currency to reduce employment?
That is merely attempting to re-inflate economy with monetary shenanigans.
Let unemployment fall by refusing to capitulate to government bureaucrats and unions.
That would work nicely ("might" be ugly though).
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#12588220 - 05/18/10 07:46 PM (14 years, 3 days ago) |
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well let me see I suppose I could believe your repetition of the typical neo-liberal clap trap about tariffs or I could just run off a list that proves it dead wrong.
Samsung, LG, Toyota and Honda. These companies were developed in countries where extensive periods of tariffs and subsidies were required to develop the industries around these companies and make them world class brands. Samsung just happens to have been the world's largest conglomerate by revenue in 2008, and for it's first 17 years it ran at a loss under protectionist policies that South Korea adopted to keep it's infant industries from being destroyed by more developed foreign competitors.
This same applies to the industrialists that supported protectionism for infant industries in the industrialism of the US/Brittan and even back into the mechanized woolen manufacturers Brittan that date back to it's first innovations into mechanized looms.
I never said that they should put tariffs on everything by any means. Also Keynes wrote a lot about the great depression that you might wish to read.
If Greece wants to pay back it's loans and be a part of the EU it is going to need to do this. Unfortunately it seems that neo-conservatives have been able to re-write history enough that most economists don't understand the historic roles of these mechanisms in forming strong economies.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
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Protesters in Ireland have been attempting to storm their parliament, upset over big banks.
The dominoes continue to fall..
How much longer until it reaches the United States?
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12588367 - 05/18/10 08:17 PM (14 years, 3 days ago) |
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2010 is your prediction isnt is?
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ScavengerType


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he already boasted that 2011 would be hyperinflation and 2012 would be economic collapse for the USA. The question is, is he standing by that. Sounds solid to me.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
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Between 2010-2011. Good memory. 
The pace of events are definitely picking up. Mainstream media doing a very poor job of covering this. They are covering it on the back page as isolated events "over there" instead of giving proper perspective.
This is One global event with many threads tying it all together.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
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Quote:
he already boasted that 2011 would be hyperinflation and 2012 would be economic collapse for the USA. The question is, is he standing by that. Sounds solid to me.
I wouldn't use the word "boasting" and it's definitely not something I relish but yes, that sums up what I forecast pretty well.
Phase II of the global economic crisis has officially begun.
Many people are unaware that the Great Depression also occurred in two stages. This following article explains it pretty well and concisely:
"Many Americans know that the Great Depression was started by the bursting of the giant Wall Street bubble of the 1920's (fueled by the use of bank deposits on speculative gambling, which is why Glass-Steagall was passed) , which in turn caused a run on American banks.
But most Americans don't know that the second leg of the Depression was caused by European defaults."
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/second-leg-great-depression-was-caused-european-defaults
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12588577 - 05/18/10 08:53 PM (14 years, 3 days ago) |
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Oh no, now its 2011... I recall it already being pushed from 2009 to 2010, no? Why is doomsday always right around the corner?
I saw a funny headline today, "Doomsdayers beware, future looks bright and optimistic"
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ScavengerType


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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12588632 - 05/18/10 09:02 PM (14 years, 3 days ago) |
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so the real question is, given that the US economy is slated to have another serious problem will the republicans try to run someone on a real economic platform, or will they continue to not try knowing that running the country would be too hard and wait for better economic conditions?
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Quote:
Oh no, now its 2011... I recall it already being pushed from 2009 to 2010, no?
No.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12588955 - 05/18/10 09:44 PM (14 years, 3 days ago) |
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I'm sure somebody predicted the collapse in 2009, and 2008 and 2007, etc. etc.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12588956 - 05/18/10 09:44 PM (14 years, 3 days ago) |
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Ok, Ill keep holding on to my Ag then.
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
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Quote:
Icelander said: I'm sure somebody predicted the collapse in 2009, and 2008 and 2007, etc. etc.
I'm sure they did.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Icelander]
#12608230 - 05/22/10 04:48 AM (14 years, 14 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I'm sure somebody predicted the collapse in 2009, and 2008 and 2007, etc. etc.
Being concerned about a few years either way is of little consequence as far as the big picture is concerned.
Perhaps it would be better to ask him how he arrived at his perspective.
I have heard the phrase "sovereign debt crisis" being tossed around lately...
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Greece is run by the 'Teat party' which is a country where everyone lives by sucking on the governments teat. I think I am going to move to a Teat Country and suck until it falls apart. Then move on to the next country and repeat.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#12608533 - 05/22/10 08:09 AM (14 years, 11 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I'm sure somebody predicted the collapse in 2009, and 2008 and 2007, etc. etc.
Being concerned about a few years either way is of little consequence as far as the big picture is concerned.
Perhaps it would be better to ask him how he arrived at his perspective.
I have heard the phrase "sovereign debt crisis" being tossed around lately...
Well I think predictions for the collapse of this system are more than a few years old. It could happen tomorrow or in a hundred years for all anyone really knows. It's a pretty sure bet that one day it will however. History is pretty plain on that one.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Icelander]
#12648711 - 05/29/10 01:22 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I'm sure somebody predicted the collapse in 2009, and 2008 and 2007, etc. etc.
Being concerned about a few years either way is of little consequence as far as the big picture is concerned.
Perhaps it would be better to ask him how he arrived at his perspective.
I have heard the phrase "sovereign debt crisis" being tossed around lately...
Well I think predictions for the collapse of this system are more than a few years old. It could happen tomorrow or in a hundred years for all anyone really knows. It's a pretty sure bet that one day it will however. History is pretty plain on that one.
You are referring to historical examples of economic collapses of the past. Id est Roman hyperinflation.
It is surprising that modern society has not learned from the past.
I think revisionist history and phony economics is certainly to blame.
The difference today is that governments are capable of accumulating debt at a far greater pace than the historical examples.
However, they have also come up with some new tricks to prop up failing systems.
Propping things up postpones the inevitable but makes the eventual decline more sudden and sharp.
It is like a patient on life support.
The economy (barring serious changes, like stopping the use of fiduciary media) is a goner and the "physicians" are acting like it has a bad flu.
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zorbman
blarrr


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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Icelander]
#12648898 - 05/29/10 02:35 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (05/29/10 02:40 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#12649750 - 05/29/10 09:49 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm partying like it's 1999! 
My opinion won't change anything. History marches on.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Icelander]
#12649790 - 05/29/10 10:00 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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The Greek Government is in quite a quandy. They have no more money for social handouts to give the masses to keep them happy.
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
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Of course our government will take care of us and these ills will never affect us here.
Right.
Right?
There are never any consequences for massive debt.
No never. 
Sleep on, America. And on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on..
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12654072 - 05/30/10 04:22 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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America will sleep on and so will the rest of the world. And it's about more than money. It's about who you are and how you feel and if your trip here will really be a happy one.
And it still could take a hundred years before it all falls down. Or more. But if history is any indication we will fall and be just another story for the history book.
These theories of financial doom I have heard almost every year since I was a kid.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Icelander]
#12654539 - 05/30/10 08:16 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
And it still could take a hundred years before it all falls down.
I would like to see some math behind that statement. How do we finance our massive and growing debt while maintaining economic growth? Even the most optimistic economist sees slow growth, if any, for years to come.
Wishful thinking will not pull us out of this mess.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12654592 - 05/30/10 08:35 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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True. It doesn't help to simply wish to throw high tax and spend politicians out of office. You have to actually do it.
--------------------
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12654909 - 05/30/10 10:06 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said:
Quote:
And it still could take a hundred years before it all falls down.
I would like to see some math behind that statement. How do we finance our massive and growing debt while maintaining economic growth? Even the most optimistic economist sees slow growth, if any, for years to come.
Wishful thinking will not pull us out of this mess.
Whos using wishful thinking? I don't care what happens, it's really none of my business, it's easy come easy go to me. The fact is I've been hearing the country was facing financial collapse before. I even listened back then. Same for Y2K.
Oh and I don't do math.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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ScavengerType


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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Icelander]
#12655223 - 05/30/10 11:29 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Both Greece and Spain have had massive economic bubbles that have sapped money out of their economy, what they need is controls and regulation on FDI and foreign capital. They need to restrict capital flight in order for their economies to recover and legitimate industries to build up.
I am also suspicious in both cases that some clear regulation of investment finances and notably buisness financing should be in order.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Capital flight? They've been stealing capital from the rest of the Euroweenies for decades and have just been given a huge amount more. The problem with Greece isn't that it is sending too much capital away. It's that not enough people are willing to actually work for their supper.
--------------------
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Icelander]
#12656351 - 05/30/10 03:21 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I don't do math.
I tried to determine how we could manage our debt but my calculator exploded.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12656558 - 05/30/10 03:58 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oh it's a mess all right. But we've been in a lot of them.
I'm not saying this isn't the one. I'm saying I don't think it is. I think something else will get us.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Icelander]
#12659792 - 05/31/10 07:57 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: And it still could take a hundred years before it all falls down. Or more. But if history is any indication we will fall and be just another story for the history book.
These theories of financial doom I have heard almost every year since I was a kid.
qft
Quote:
Of course our government will take care of us and these ills will never affect us here. Right. Right? There are never any consequences for massive debt. No never. Sleep on, America. And on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on..
qfe
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12663648 - 05/31/10 09:40 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Portugal.
--------------------
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Yeppers.
Me notices me and zap agree for once in last five years.
*begins nervously scanning the sky for incoming meteors or large inbound extra-planetary objects*
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (06/01/10 01:51 AM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12665275 - 06/01/10 07:17 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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> Me notices me and zap agree for once in last five years.
Thus begins the path to wisdom.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Seuss]
#12665476 - 06/01/10 08:42 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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When he can take the pebble from my hand...................
--------------------
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



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It is the economic moral hazard of a group of nations utilizing the same inflationary medium of exchange.
Nations issue new debt instruments to their neighbors with interest rates that make no sense given the risk involved to pay for unsustainable programs.
Can you see how they are in a race to rack up debt at the expense of their neighbors in the E.U.
"Quick spend as much money as possible before everyone else does!"
That is what is happening.
They have difficulty containing the mess because they are all contributing to the problem.
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Annom
※※※※※※




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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#12671120 - 06/02/10 08:04 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Italy and Greece are the only two EU countries that have a higher depth as % of GDP than the USA.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Annom]
#12671129 - 06/02/10 08:10 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sure. That is why it is difficult to determine which currency fails first. Probably euro falls and then things get shaky over here. Like a repeat of the Great Depression but with hyperinflation.
The problem that European countries are faced with is that there is no reward for good fiscal restraint.
It is like trying to spend less money when your "buddies" are reaching into your pocket for money while they tell you that you can take their money too.
It is always easier to spend other people's money instead of your own. That is the central point.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



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Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#13865304 - 01/28/11 10:47 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Greek default?
"Greece should restructure its debts within a year, a prominent member of the European Parliament from Germany's junior governing partner told Reuters, saying his party would not oppose such a move."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/26/us-eu-restructuring-idUSTRE70P77420110126
So far the EU has refused to allow Greece or Ireland to default.
instead they have been giving them billions of euros in emergency loans to allow them to refinance their debt.
If the Greeks defaulted a lot of banks would be fucked.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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ScavengerType


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The euro-zone won't allow them to default outright. Obviously interest payments of 150% of GDP are probibly going to be at least cut in half if not to a third. I'm a little shocked that when the funny finances came to light this wasn't tried immediately Here it is almost 9 months later and people are just starting to recommend it. Meanwhile the ineffective austerity measures were rammed through on site of a problem.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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