|
zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
|
Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Icelander]
#12654539 - 05/30/10 08:16 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
And it still could take a hundred years before it all falls down.
I would like to see some math behind that statement. How do we finance our massive and growing debt while maintaining economic growth? Even the most optimistic economist sees slow growth, if any, for years to come.
Wishful thinking will not pull us out of this mess.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
|
Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12654592 - 05/30/10 08:35 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
True. It doesn't help to simply wish to throw high tax and spend politicians out of office. You have to actually do it.
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12654909 - 05/30/10 10:06 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zorbman said:
Quote:
And it still could take a hundred years before it all falls down.
I would like to see some math behind that statement. How do we finance our massive and growing debt while maintaining economic growth? Even the most optimistic economist sees slow growth, if any, for years to come.
Wishful thinking will not pull us out of this mess.
Whos using wishful thinking? I don't care what happens, it's really none of my business, it's easy come easy go to me. The fact is I've been hearing the country was facing financial collapse before. I even listened back then. Same for Y2K.
Oh and I don't do math.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
|
Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Icelander]
#12655223 - 05/30/10 11:29 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Both Greece and Spain have had massive economic bubbles that have sapped money out of their economy, what they need is controls and regulation on FDI and foreign capital. They need to restrict capital flight in order for their economies to recover and legitimate industries to build up.
I am also suspicious in both cases that some clear regulation of investment finances and notably buisness financing should be in order.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
|
|
Capital flight? They've been stealing capital from the rest of the Euroweenies for decades and have just been given a huge amount more. The problem with Greece isn't that it is sending too much capital away. It's that not enough people are willing to actually work for their supper.
--------------------
|
zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
|
Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Icelander]
#12656351 - 05/30/10 03:21 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I don't do math.
I tried to determine how we could manage our debt but my calculator exploded.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12656558 - 05/30/10 03:58 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Oh it's a mess all right. But we've been in a lot of them.
I'm not saying this isn't the one. I'm saying I don't think it is. I think something else will get us.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
|
Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Icelander]
#12659792 - 05/31/10 07:57 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: And it still could take a hundred years before it all falls down. Or more. But if history is any indication we will fall and be just another story for the history book.
These theories of financial doom I have heard almost every year since I was a kid.
qft
Quote:
Of course our government will take care of us and these ills will never affect us here. Right. Right? There are never any consequences for massive debt. No never. Sleep on, America. And on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on..
qfe
|
zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
|
|
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
|
Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12663648 - 05/31/10 09:40 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Portugal.
--------------------
|
zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
|
|
Yeppers.
Me notices me and zap agree for once in last five years.
*begins nervously scanning the sky for incoming meteors or large inbound extra-planetary objects*
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (06/01/10 01:51 AM)
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
|
Re: Riots in Greece [Re: zorbman]
#12665275 - 06/01/10 07:17 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
> Me notices me and zap agree for once in last five years.
Thus begins the path to wisdom.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
|
Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Seuss]
#12665476 - 06/01/10 08:42 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
When he can take the pebble from my hand...................
--------------------
|
Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
|
|
It is the economic moral hazard of a group of nations utilizing the same inflationary medium of exchange.
Nations issue new debt instruments to their neighbors with interest rates that make no sense given the risk involved to pay for unsustainable programs.
Can you see how they are in a race to rack up debt at the expense of their neighbors in the E.U.
"Quick spend as much money as possible before everyone else does!"
That is what is happening.
They have difficulty containing the mess because they are all contributing to the problem.
|
Annom
※※※※※※




Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6,367
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 1 year, 3 days
|
Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#12671120 - 06/02/10 08:04 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Italy and Greece are the only two EU countries that have a higher depth as % of GDP than the USA.
|
Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
|
Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Annom]
#12671129 - 06/02/10 08:10 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Sure. That is why it is difficult to determine which currency fails first. Probably euro falls and then things get shaky over here. Like a repeat of the Great Depression but with hyperinflation.
The problem that European countries are faced with is that there is no reward for good fiscal restraint.
It is like trying to spend less money when your "buddies" are reaching into your pocket for money while they tell you that you can take their money too.
It is always easier to spend other people's money instead of your own. That is the central point.
|
lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
|
Re: Riots in Greece [Re: Mr.Al]
#13865304 - 01/28/11 10:47 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Greek default?
"Greece should restructure its debts within a year, a prominent member of the European Parliament from Germany's junior governing partner told Reuters, saying his party would not oppose such a move."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/26/us-eu-restructuring-idUSTRE70P77420110126
So far the EU has refused to allow Greece or Ireland to default.
instead they have been giving them billions of euros in emergency loans to allow them to refinance their debt.
If the Greeks defaulted a lot of banks would be fucked.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
|
ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
|
|
The euro-zone won't allow them to default outright. Obviously interest payments of 150% of GDP are probibly going to be at least cut in half if not to a third. I'm a little shocked that when the funny finances came to light this wasn't tried immediately Here it is almost 9 months later and people are just starting to recommend it. Meanwhile the ineffective austerity measures were rammed through on site of a problem.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
|
|