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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: I LOL'D [Re: Tony]
#12511352 - 05/05/10 03:27 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well, there's more than one way to shave a goat.
An awakening occurred "to me" last January after 15 years of serious practice and study, which turned out to be unnecessary after all. I'm certain about nothing, though I know an 'enlightened' person who agrees that J. and UG have opposing views on the same awareness.
There are many kinds of enlightenment, I'm referring to so-called "abiding non-dual awareness". Two enlightened individuals sometimes disagree and it is common for them to still have personality defects.
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Tony
Stranger
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No wonder. If the conscious monkey mind is silenced, then whatever action emerges has to come directly from the subconscious. There's no guarantee it's compassionate..
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: I LOL'D [Re: Tony]
#12511615 - 05/05/10 04:18 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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The unconscious is awake, it's the conscious mind that is sleeping. If there was no sleep, how would there be any sort of dream? If there is no conscious mind, what experience could there be?
The conflict between the two is the problem, not the contents of one or the other.
The Uncon into Con is tripping, dreaming, or schizophrenia, not enlightenment, which is beyond mind. Satori is like compassion, though it's not an experience, and it's not guaranteed to be embodied.
It takes 10-20 years for a serious student to become enlightened. It takes another 10-20 years to learn how to integrate into daily life.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Is enlightenment really something we can attach a time-frame to? I mean, surely an array of variables need to be taken into account - determination, practice, open-mindedness, environment(maybe).
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soldatheero
lastirishman
Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 2,856
Loc:
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Quote:
Both Krishnamurtis were complete jerks and they both were enlightened, that is they both realized singular awareness.
I don't buy that for a second. I'm not even impressed by U.G krishnamurti's philosophy let alone his spiritual advice. Why do you think acknowledging\realizing singular awareness means enlightenment?
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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I'm not selling you anything. UG is coming from a very high place which ironically just ends up sounding shallow, though he's right about it all being a con.
Nirvana means to 'blow-out', or cease, which is the only way to describe singularity, and is thus how I choose to define enlightenment.
Siddhis and Samadhis are just abilities and states that occur within forms and they don't necessarily have anything to do with awakening.
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c0sm0nautt said: Is enlightenment really something we can attach a time-frame to? I mean, surely an array of variables need to be taken into account - determination, practice, open-mindedness, environment(maybe).
Generally, those are indeed the averages among recognized adepts. Of course there are exceptions. I was trying to make a point. Taking action from the awakened state is like swimming with my boots on.
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soldatheero
lastirishman
Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 2,856
Loc:
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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I think enlightened beings have will over the entire universe, I think they have a level of control beyond what we can fathom, I think they can create the very thoughts that pop into our heads. To me enlightenment is not merely ceasing, it is ceasing the false illusions control and taking real control. If you don't have infinite consciousness and can't control that infinite consciousness then your not enlightened. Many people think they are after bursting from their little personal reality tunnels but the truth is they are just barely getting started.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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This is why I am here, to tell you that it's not like that.
The good news is that Nirvana is easier than you think. The bad news is that it doesn't really change the persona.
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appleorange
Rainbow Technician
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
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Quote:
Mr. Middle said: This is why I am here, to tell you that it's not like that.
The good news is that Nirvana is easier than you think. The bad news is that it doesn't really change the persona.
I don't share the same view as soldatheero that enlightenment is some all encompassing state of divine bliss.
But more so a release from our neuroses; we finally come to a place of simple ease and peace in our lives. My previous teacher was just like any other old man except for the fact that he had a sense of peace and confidence in him that was unmistakable. His words didn't feel hollow as if he was citing the words of past patriarchs, but that they emanated from an all certain confidence within himself.
I don't doubt that Nirvana is something embarassingly simple to realize and that it is no further away than the bridge of our nose, but would you deny that it frees the individual from anxiety and doubt?
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Tony said: I'm at a stage where I understand, conseptually, that there is no doer
How can this be understood conceptually?
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Mr. Middle said: It takes 10-20 years for a serious student to become enlightened. It takes another 10-20 years to learn how to integrate into daily life.
Or perhaps it takes 10-20 years to see through the thought that it takes 10-20 years
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Tony
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 958
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Tony said: I'm at a stage where I understand, conseptually, that there is no doer
How can this be understood conceptually?
How can it be understood otherwise? That's what I'm interested in, because for me it's just a logical conclusion, like this:
The mind can not set a doing in motion without it itself being moved by something else. It can not make anything without first being made by something. Etc. So, the doer is not confined in any autonomous unit, it flows as new forms unfold.
That's my conceptual "understanding" of the concept of no doer, and I know it's not much.
Speaking of certainty, what do you make of this:
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Ramana Maharshi said that there is a false sense of liberation that aspirants reach that very few ever go beyond.
I didn't read the whole writing on the website, it just caught my eye and I thought it was interesting.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: I LOL'D [Re: Tony]
#12515606 - 05/06/10 08:35 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tony said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Tony said: I'm at a stage where I understand, conseptually, that there is no doer
How can this be understood conceptually?
How can it be understood otherwise? That's what I'm interested in, because for me it's just a logical conclusion, like this:
The mind can not set a doing in motion without it itself being moved by something else. It can not make anything without first being made by something. Etc. So, the doer is not confined in any autonomous unit, it flows as new forms unfold.
That's my conceptual "understanding" of the concept of no doer, and I know it's not much.
Cool, thats fine, but there is a further way to understand it, by experiencing it, by feeling it energetically If you energetically feel you are not the doer of any action, imagine the unburdening you would feel How light, happy & weightless your mind would become...
Its like people saying 'i intellectually understand i must be infinity' Can this intellectual understanding compare to actually feeling/seeing you are Infinity? The intellect can at least show that all this isn't irrational or illogical, which is very good Just be aware it is still all mind...
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Tony said: Speaking of certainty, what do you make of this:
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Ramana Maharshi said that there is a false sense of liberation that aspirants reach that very few ever go beyond.
Very true, alot of beings will setlle for the bliss state & not press on further into the immense calm We spend all our lifetimes searching for happiness, so when we get it some rest content with it Very very few will push on until all duality is transcended, where joy & enjoyer are one This is why the inquiry is so so great, when bliss comes don't abandon the inquiry prematurely Keep on it - who is the enjoyer of this bliss?
I'll leave a Ramana Quote that i feel perfectly address' it
"Even the sense of liberation is the work of delusion"
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Mr. Middle said: There are many kinds of enlightenment, I'm referring to so-called "abiding non-dual awareness". Two enlightened individuals sometimes disagree and it is common for them to still have personality defects.
I've come to understand all cases of enlightenment as just coming into total awareness of what you really are. I guess I just imagined all the other stuff would arise naturally out of that.
When you say there are multiple types of enlightenment, could you give some examples? Is there not one type of awakening that is the "real" awakening...as in, I'd know it when I see it regardless of what else I've experienced?
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
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Re: I LOL'D [Re: g00ru]
#12515912 - 05/06/10 10:22 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Nice conversation going on
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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pong
kretan
Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 4,311
Loc: west coast
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Re: I LOL'D [Re: g00ru]
#12516392 - 05/06/10 12:13 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said:
When you say there are multiple types of enlightenment, could you give some examples? Is there not one type of awakening that is the "real" awakening...as in, I'd know it when I see it regardless of what else I've experienced?
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: I LOL'D [Re: pong]
#12516411 - 05/06/10 12:16 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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As far as i see it there is only one type of enlightenment, thats the whole point of it Awakening to Infinity
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Tony
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 958
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Chronic777 said: Cool, thats fine, but there is a further way to understand it, by experiencing it, by feeling it energetically
I get that. Like, you can analyze sex all you want, but who's gonna be satisfied with a just theory of it? =>
Is that analogy ok?
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: I LOL'D [Re: Tony]
#12516464 - 05/06/10 12:24 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Very apt Just like trying to describe Love to someone, the description can't ever compare to the experience of falling in love yourself It has to happen to you in order for you to really understand its power
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