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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Gun Control
    #1249814 -

I've been reading some statistics ( GunCite ) that show how much higher gun deaths are in countries where they are legal and where alcohol is readily available. It seems fairly obvious that making guns illegal would reduce gun deaths. However, I also came across the beliefs of the NRA, which are that there will always be deaths (gun related or not).
What are you opinions on this topic?


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All Information posted by me is for entertainment purposes only and should not be attempted in real life!!!

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Re: Gun Control [Re: Andytweed]
    #1249831 -

A more valid point is that there will always be GUNS, legal or illegal.
Prohibiting them will only ensure that they are mainly in the hands of criminals.

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Re: Gun Control [Re: Andytweed]
    #1249838 -

Outlaw the guns and only the outlaws will have them.


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The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Gun Control [Re: Andytweed]
    #1249845 -

Here's another site that supports your argument:

http://www.korpios.org/resurgent/L-switzerland.htm

I'm not opposed to guns, but it appears the argument that guns make people safer is incorrect.


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

Edited by GoBlue! (01/26/03 08:21 AM)

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Re: Gun Control [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1249859 -

Guns may not make us safer from crime, but they could make us safer from the Govt.


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Re: Gun Control [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1249861 -

Handgun 1992 Handgun Murder
Country Murders Population Rate (per 100,000)
-----------------------------------------------------------
United States 13,429 254,521,000 5.28
Switzerland 97 6,828,023 1.42
Canada 128 27,351,509 0.47
Sweden 36 8,602,157 0.42
Australia 13 17,576,354 0.07
United Kingdom 33 57,797,514 0.06
Japan 60 124,460,481 0.05
(http://www.korpios.org/resurgent/L-switzerland.htm )

hmmmm looks a bit different when its put that way.

In the UK where guns are illegal and not even cops can carry them.... 33 deaths.
In the US where people get a tingle from just saying the word gun.... 13,429.

And yes, that is a Bill Hicks joke.


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All Information posted by me is for entertainment purposes only and should not be attempted in real life!!!

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Re: Gun Control [Re: Andytweed]
    #1249942 -

Hand gun murders are but a fraction of all crime. What about assault, robbery, and murder by baseball bat? Overall crime in England is higher than in America, and the crime rate is rising. In America, however, the crime rate is falling.

I don't know about you, but I don't see any advantage in being beaten to death over being shot to death.

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Re: Gun Control [Re: Andytweed]
    #1250275 -


Handgun 1992 Handgun Murder
Country Murders Population Rate (per 100,000)
-----------------------------------------------------------
United States 13,429 254,521,000 5.28
Switzerland 97 6,828,023 1.42
Canada 128 27,351,509 0.47
Sweden 36 8,602,157 0.42
Australia 13 17,576,354 0.07
United Kingdom 33 57,797,514 0.06
Japan 60 124,460,481 0.05
(http://www.korpios.org/resurgent/L-switzerland.htm )

hmmmm looks a bit different when its put that way.

In the UK where guns are illegal and not even cops can carry them.... 33 deaths.
In the US where people get a tingle from just saying the word gun.... 13,429.

You should note that in Switzerland, gun ownership is mandatory(everyone is
required to have military training). There is a gun in every house there(granted,
they are not handguns but usually military-style rifles). Yet their gun murder rates
are far below American rates.

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Re: Gun Control [Re: Anonymous]
    #1250321 -

I think being allowed to bring guns into a public place is where the problems arise(other than the woods with hunting rifles). Tensions are too high among people when everybody is allowed to or at least do carry guns around in there pockets.

Before someone tells me the about the lady shooting the rapist in the dark alleyway, lets make women go to classes that teach tne the dangers of dark alleyways.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.

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Re: Gun Control [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #1250516 -


Tensions are too high among people when everybody is allowed to or at least do
carry guns around in there pockets.

Responsible gun owners are not the problem. Granted, I believe that there should
be background checks and a possible mandatory gun safety course when a
person buys a handgun.

Most of the gun violence that occurs is committed by criminals who don't give
a shit about laws anyway.

Before someone tells me the about the lady shooting the rapist in the dark
alleyway, lets make women go to classes that teach tne the dangers of dark
alleyways.

Rapists and muggers don't always choose dark alleyways to attack their
prey. For example, sometimes they commit their crimes in broad daylight in mall
parking lots. People do need to exercise reason when deciding what
situations they put themselves into. But, I don't think it is a wrong thing for
law-abiding people to have access to a tool for defense.

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Re: Gun Control [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1250527 -

Quote:
Most of the gun violence that occurs is committed by criminals who don't give
a shit about laws anyway.


Wrong. Most gun violence occurs at home in the heat of an argument.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Gun Control [Re: silversoul7]
    #1252011 -

It is true that some gun deaths result from passionate feelings. But, there is no
doubt that a lot of gun deaths also result from the criminal element. I dunno...I think
we need to go statistic searching. Does somebody compile statistics on the
causes of all of the individual gun deaths in America?

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Re: Gun Control [Re: silversoul7]
    #1252719 -

Quote:
Quote:
Most of the gun violence that occurs is committed by criminals who don't give
a shit about laws anyway.


Wrong. Most gun violence occurs at home in the heat of an argument.


Wrong, most gun violence occurs at the hands of governments.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Gun Control [Re: Evolving]
    #1252892 -

That would perhaps validate the first statement.

The gov's got the best guns too.


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES

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Re: Gun Control [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1253000 -

Yet their gun murder rates

What is the drug gang situation like in Switzerland? Pretty much all the gun deaths in England are related to fights between drug gangs. Ordinary people getting shot are so rare it always makes headline news.

I havn't heard too much about Swiss drug gangs...


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Gun Control [Re: Xlea321]
    #1253127 -

Gun Control is not about crime rates and criminals. It is about being able to actually fight against corrupt powers that would attempt to enslave you.

Think about the constitution and why the framers wanted gun rights in there. They were trying to make sure that the common man would have the ability to check the government if it got out of hand. Even the one they were creating.


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Re: Gun Control [Re: BowlKiller]
    #1253587 -

I don't know if you've realized this, but YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CHANCE IN A GUN BATTLE AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT.
Just a thought. Carry on discussion.


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All Information posted by me is for entertainment purposes only and should not be attempted in real life!!!

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Re: Gun Control [Re: Andytweed]
    #1253655 -

Quote:
I don't know if you've realized this, but YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CHANCE IN A GUN BATTLE AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT.


True. And the only way we could overthrow the government through an underground resistance is with foreign aid, in which case those countries would probably give us guns.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Gun Control [Re: Xlea321]
    #1253657 -


What is the drug gang situation like in Switzerland? Pretty much all the gun deaths in England are related to fights between drug gangs. Ordinary people getting shot are so rare it always makes headline news.

I havn't heard too much about Swiss drug gangs...

True. If drugs were legal, they would not be valuable, which means people
would not kill each other in order to control the market. A lot of violence in
the U.S. is drug-related, so it stands to reason that violent crime would go down
if drugs were legalized.



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Re: Gun Control [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1253726 -

They have to jail the people that think for themselves the most (drug users) or if that doesn't work, let them kill each other.
That'll keep em in line.


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All Information posted by me is for entertainment purposes only and should not be attempted in real life!!!

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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