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OfflineJazzMatazz
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Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens
    #1249148 - 01/25/03 11:58 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Ive found both species on the net, as I was looking for an alternate species for a wild patch (rather than cubensis).
The problem is, that at FSRE.org I found the following statement:
Quote:

The Panaeolus Cyanescens is also known as the Copelandia Cyanescens. The Copelandia Cyanescens is a very small mushroom, but it's considered one of the most strongest.



But at MushMush.nl , it says:
Quote:

(The Psilocybe cyanescens) is a very potent species. People report that these mushrooms contain 2-3 times more active compounds that the average Psilocybe cubensis



The Mushroom Dosage Proggie at the Shroomery only has the Psilocybe , and states , that this is roughly twice as potent as a Cubensis , which would coincide with MushMush.
BUT at Sporeworks, they say the following:
Quote:

Panaeolus cyanescens: A small, fast growing mushroom found on dung in pastures and fields. A strong producer of psilocybin, it is considered highly active. Cultivation requires a substrate of manure based composts or pasteurized straw




Could someone just elaborate on both , concerning Potency , Substrate , Regions of possible outdoor cultivation.
Thanks a lot,
Jazz


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Offlinefugu
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: JazzMatazz]
    #1249159 - 01/26/03 12:06 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

yea lots of fucking texts are like that . i have got also a text like the potenties about fly agarics.but if you know how to read the instructions they are very funny to have an idea about what is what


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OfflineHamurabi
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: fugu]
    #1249282 - 01/26/03 02:51 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)



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OfflineJazzMatazz
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: fugu] * 1
    #1249421 - 01/26/03 06:07 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

yea lots of fucking texts are like that . i have got also a text like the potenties about fly agarics.but if you know how to read the instructions they are very funny to have an idea about what is what




and
Quote:

Cubensis




What am I to think of these answers?! Im confused!


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Offlinefugu
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: JazzMatazz] * 1
    #1249428 - 01/26/03 06:12 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

i dont know .i just wait for the dinner and i saw nothing was written .so i want to give you a feeling thats all.


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: JazzMatazz]
    #1249445 - 01/26/03 06:28 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

check out the answer to this    cyans query :confused:
posted just a few hours before yours.

hope this helps.   


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OfflineHamurabi
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: shirley knott]
    #1249463 - 01/26/03 06:41 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

sorry for my previews reply,don't know what happened! this is my correct reply:

cubensis are weaker than psilocybe cyanescens which are weaker than panaeolus(copelandia) cyanescens


Edited by Hamurabi (01/26/03 06:42 AM)


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: JazzMatazz]
    #1249479 - 01/26/03 06:54 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Panaeolus cyanescens is a substropical dung inhabiting species.
Not hard to cultivate indoors on dung and straw. Roughly double the potency of Psilocybe cubensis.

Psilocybe cyanescens is a wood decomposing species growing naturally in the temperate zone(in the usa in the pacific northwest, for instance). It needs a coldschock to fruit. Cultivation indoor is very difficult and fruiting unlikely to occur without an elaborate setup. Potency also roughly double the potency of Psilocybe cubensis.

Check out the Cultivation FAQ for the cultivation parameters.


Edited by Anno (01/26/03 06:55 AM)


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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Anno]
    #1250287 - 01/26/03 02:06 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

No way.
Psilicybe Cyanescens and related binomials are easily three times more potent than Psilocybe Cubensis.
The average maxima for Cubensis measured is around 15% psilocybin and .40% psilocin (and this is too high i think anyway) - maxima of ps.cyanescens tend to range around 1.2%-1.3% while Australiana, Azurescens and Bohemica which are all closely related to Ps.Cyanescens record maxima of over 2.0% psilocybin if not more.
MJ suggests that Ps.Cyanescens in bioassay is more potent by weight than Ps.Azurescens and the alkaloid maxima reported by Gartz are incorrect.
Panaeolus cyanesces is certainly potent, but not as potent as Ps.cyanescens by any stretch of the imagination.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1250419 - 01/26/03 03:04 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Do you know what the word "roughly" means?


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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Zen Peddler] * 1
    #1250962 - 01/26/03 07:09 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I think all of those bioassay tests are very misleading.

A one gram sample of dried copelandia contains a significant quantity of actual specimens. A one gram sample of Psilocybe cyanescens COMPLEX, contains sometimes one specimen only. If psilocibin content within a SPECIES is a range, that differs from specimen to specimen, the chances of consuming mushrooms at the high end of the range is increased with the quantity of specimens you consume. You can eat a weak Psilocybe cyanescens that makes up a one gram sample, YOU WILL FIND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO DO THE SAME WITH COPELANDIAS.

Gram for gram over time, and I would think Copelandias and P.cyanescens are very comparable, I would even give the edge to the Copelandias. I personally think they are about 2.5+ times as strong as Cubensis from personal " Bioassay" on Average. Have had a 1 gram sample that was stronger then a 3 gram sample of cubensis on several occasions. As the sample size increases weight wise, I tend to think the copelandias get even stronger. Have eaten 2 gram samples of Copelandias that felt like 7+ gram samples of cubensis. Anything over 3 grams dry for the copelandias, and I personally HAVE a VERY DIFFICULT TIME comparing Potencies any more.
I think SIZE of SPECIMEN(quantity of specimens in sample) is EXTREMELY important in comparing potencies of SPECIES to SPECIES. Developemental stage to Developemental stage.

Always remeber the Figures Stated are for MAXIMUM PERCENTAGE. Percentage varies from specimen to specimen.

WHERE ARE YOU GETTING YOUR AVERAGES and MAXIMUMS from Bluemeanie?







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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Anno]
    #1251040 - 01/26/03 07:42 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)



Edited by deanofmean (01/26/03 07:44 PM)


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: deanofmean]
    #1251401 - 01/26/03 10:19 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, I locked the other posts and linked to here.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Anno]
    #1251423 - 01/26/03 10:25 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Re: Gthirteens

>Ok, now of all of these "extemely potent' species which is the easiest to grow
>(indoors) and which has the highest yields?

Panaeolus cyanescens is easy to grow indoors, but the yield is not very high.

Psilocybe cyanescens is easy to grow OUTDOORS and the yield is much, much better.
But it can?t be cultivated easily (in comparable quantity) indoors.


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Anno]
    #1251514 - 01/26/03 11:01 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

could someone please rate this > ps. azure / cyan "mmgg" for me .

thanks. don't want to waste two months if it's no good.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: shirley knott]
    #1251544 - 01/26/03 11:18 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

It doesn?t work.
The species the tek was tested with was most likely P. cubensis.


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Anno]
    #1251556 - 01/26/03 11:24 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

hmmm, thanks.  *drops document into rubbish bin*
any recommendations for how best to indoor-start my prints of Ps. azures and Ps. semis  ?

i have read all the links in the faqs under 'how are those species cultivated?' but found that most people only succeeded with either a live specimen or agar isolates and a lot of knowhow. if i can get grain spawn to colonise, do i try for wood shavings next? then move straight outdoors at 50-60F ?

:grin:shirl
xx



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Edited by shirley knott (01/26/03 11:44 PM)


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OfflineGthirteens
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Anno]
    #1251581 - 01/26/03 11:39 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the reply Anno...

I was just doing some searches on Panaeolus Cyanescens and it seems that if I had any questions about Panaeolus Cyanescens you'd be "the man" to ask... I stumbled accross some of your past grow logs of these beautiful mushies... nice job on those grows man!!  They're soo tripped out looking, tall and skinny :grin:

Peace
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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: shirley knott]
    #1251595 - 01/26/03 11:46 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

>any recommendations for how best to indoor-start my prints of Ps. azures and Ps. semis

Yes, streak them on some agar plates.


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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: JazzMatazz]
    #1251767 - 01/27/03 01:38 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

AND WHAT IS COPELANDIA CYANENSENS THEN???????


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: RainbowEye]
    #1251769 - 01/27/03 01:40 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

dude, stop SHOUTING!

and if you read even two of the plenty posts above, you'll find the answer to your question. :tongue:


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OfflineJazzMatazz
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: shirley knott] * 1
    #1251777 - 01/27/03 01:45 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Do Psilocybe cyanescens and Auzrencens (or whatever... :wink: ) yield comparably to Cubensis , or not? All pictures of Outdoor patches Ive seen , only show very few fruits, wouldnt it be better to grow Cubensis , and just eat twice the amount? Or is the trip really "higher" on Woodloving strains?


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: JazzMatazz]
    #1251803 - 01/27/03 02:29 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)



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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Anno]
    #1251812 - 01/27/03 02:44 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

He He He ^^ inspiring


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OfflineJazzMatazz
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Anno]
    #1252222 - 01/27/03 07:12 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

>All pictures of Outdoor patches Ive seen , only show very few fruits,

Really?
Then yoiu must have missed those



Well... I sure did , but honestly , there will be a difference between my patches and anno?s, right??!!! (actually I suppose this difference to be quite large... :wink:  ) 


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: RainbowEye]
    #1252371 - 01/27/03 08:27 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

AND WHAT IS COPELANDIA CYANENSENS THEN???????


click me


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OfflineHamurabi
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: deanofmean]
    #1252615 - 01/27/03 09:57 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

thiese copelandia threads confused me a lot! i always thought that panaeolus cyanescens are strogner than psilocybe cyanescens! then i read in these threads from a few people that ps cyans are stronger than pan cyans.
can anyone please tell us the right answer with proves? documents or something

thank you

P.S. Mj we need you!!!!:-)


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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Hamurabi] * 1
    #1253674 - 01/27/03 03:21 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

According to the Literature P. cyanescens is Stronger then Copelandia species. I would regard the literature with a grain of salt. BOTH mushrooms are of the EXTREMELY POTENT variety.

Let your local climate determine which one you grow, and let yourself be the judge of potency. Start small 1/2 gram and increase accordingly.

As is being determined every day, the Literature is becoming more and more outdated. It appears there has always been some kind of Ego battle between the various Mycologists that study these mushrooms. I think that Battle is contagous, and only SLOWS down the progress that can be made.

I would say the only thing Potency analysis is good for is DETERMINATION of CHEMICAL composition, and the scientific PROOF of the prescence of the Alkaloids for Taxonomic identification and submission into JOURNALS. Other then that SELF EXPERIMENTATION will be your ultimate guide to potency. Just take the basic advice that some people hear think Copelandia is more potent and some thing P. cyanescens is more potent. All agree that they are both more potent then cubensis, and you should TAKE that AGREED upon EXPERIENCE into SERIOUS consideration when INGESTING EITHER SPECIES.

Good luck and Be careful.



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Offlineresin
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: ]
    #1253772 - 01/27/03 03:55 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Anno I Think that youd know this. What are the yeilds roughly on a pan cyan casing? Does the potency make up for the yeild? Thanks


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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: resin]
    #1253811 - 01/27/03 04:12 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Umm... No
Ps.Cyans are Comparable to Azures, they are almost the same shroom, there potencies are one in the same, Pan.Cyans are Wicked too and easy to cultivate indoors, as stated earlier, while Ps.Cyans Like Azures need a certain climate, and need to be cultivated outdoors.
You would get a better yield from Fruiting Ps.Cyans outdoors in the right climate, than you would from fruiting pan.Cyans indoors, though their ease to cultivate make them the ideal choice for the home cultivator.


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Edited by TeKn0 (01/27/03 04:13 PM)


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OfflineSlipstream
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: TeKn0]
    #1323721 - 02/21/03 04:38 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Anyone discovered a particularly effective method of drying out Pan. Cyan.? I read earlier that they lose potency if dried.


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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Slipstream]
    #1328977 - 02/23/03 03:22 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

bttt


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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Slipstream]
    #1962318 - 09/29/03 11:02 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Teonan - your points are valid.
But as you know, when panaeolus cyanescens is dried it shrivels up to nothing - literally stems the size of human hair. So to consume a gram of dried bluemeanies would literally be a lot of mushrooms.
Id wager that upwards of maybe 14-20 pans would be needed to get the weight up to 1 gram. Where as, as we know, woodlovers tend to dry quite substantially - only slightly less material than cubensis, and usually one or two dried woodlovers will get your weight to 1 gram. So by dry weight we would be comparing one to three fruitbodies of azurescens/cyanescens/subaeruginosa with 15 or so dried pans. Both of these might be a lightweight dose, but still you'd be looking at around 3 grams of dried material of cubensis to even get you started. I cannot really say from bioassay how much more these are more potent than cubensis. What i do know is that i can eat a whole tray full of meaty cubensis, 20 or so fresh pans with are much easier to stomach, or 3 to 5 fresh subaeruginosa and id be in the same boat.
I prefer the experience from subaeruginosa as well - i find it much more pleasant than cubensis (this could just be my stomach/body/ and this mind complaining about eating so much material)


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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1962714 - 09/29/03 02:50 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Copelandia is or closely related to Pannaeolus. Psilocybe is closer to Stropharia. I have heard Psiloybe cyanescens is the most potent of the mushrooms. Also I have heard you must eat many Pan. to get close to cubensis.


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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1964831 - 09/30/03 02:48 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Yes I know bluemeanie.  When you live where I live you don't get access to cold weather potent Psilocybes, so you eat what is the best in your environment.

:heart: Copelandias.  I am sure I would love the P. australianas TOO. :grin:

 


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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Anno]
    #1965762 - 09/30/03 01:17 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Those outdoor pics are one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen, Anno.


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OfflineWerecat
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Jack_Straw]
    #1966133 - 09/30/03 03:19 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Grow both! Ps Cyan is easy to get going in sawdust and then in hardwood chips outdoors. Once it's done it just needs a bit of water perhaps and is otherwise left alone, and will fruit (at least in norther climates where it cools off to 10 degrees C or so). Meanwhile you can do the Pan Cyan's inside.

Best yet you can do your own comparison and report back. Ah the things people do for science


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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Werecat]
    #1967170 - 09/30/03 08:51 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Azures don't seem to care much for aspen bedding.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Anno]
    #5414322 - 03/17/06 09:19 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

that seems to suggest that the potency of pans equates to the potency of psilocybe cyanescens - and it doesnt.
Woodlovers are the most potent psilocybes - its as simple as that.


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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5414325 - 03/17/06 09:22 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Wow man catching up on old threads......... :grin:


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: Zen Peddler] * 2
    #5414331 - 03/17/06 09:30 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

>that seems to suggest that the potency of pans equates to the potency of psilocybe cyanescens

Yes, it suggests that the potency is roughly the same as in P. cyanescens.

Panaeolus cyanescens contains more psilocin, the combined psilocybin and psilocin are roughly the same.
So fresh, Panaeolus cyanescens is definitely as strong as P. cyanescens, whereas dried(if drying wasn't done proper) Panaeolus cyanescens will lose some of the psilocin and thus P. cyanescens will be slightly stronger.


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Offline707godheadcymaster
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: JazzMatazz]
    #20889594 - 11/25/14 06:40 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Hey jasmatazz the species you are talking about panaeolus cyanescens are supposed to be some of the most potent mushrooms around. According to Paul stamets one study reported .71% psilocybin and .04% psilocin. But the mushrooms I collect psilocybe cyanescens are reportedly .85% psilocybin and .36% psilocin. So as far as potency looks like p.cyanescens are the way to go and unless u live in Hawaii, Louisiana, Florida, Mexico, Brazil, Bolivia or eastern alstrailia it would be a fluke to find the blue meannie. I have some speculation why stamets derived such low levels of active compounds in his specimens because I have head reports of strong trips with the blue meannie and know that they are sold as the Hawaiian mushroom at smart shops in Europe and these shops often bost of them as there most potent mushrooms pre ban.


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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: 707godheadcymaster]
    #20889610 - 11/25/14 06:42 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

old thread man, check the dates before you post


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Offline707godheadcymaster
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Re: Panaeolus cyanescens vs Psilocybe cyanescens [Re: cronicr]
    #20889828 - 11/25/14 07:30 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

My bad


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