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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: wellage]
    #12471884 - 04/28/10 02:05 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

If that was your sole interest, probably.

People can get the same benefits from such practices as yoga, though.
Proper warm up and form is key, as well as good breathing.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinewellage
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: wellage]
    #12471892 - 04/28/10 02:07 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

wellage said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
Meditation stills your body and mind, yet it doesn't tone it.
If you weren't interested in toning/muscle strength, wouldn't you just meditate?




If you can still your body and mind with only meditation, I applaud you.

I, however, need to take advantage of my entire PSYCHOSOMATIC being to benefit from meditation.

In my humble experience, and I know I'm not the only one, I NEED asana to progress at all. Meditation alone will not do it.

It's more than just muscle strength and tone. Balance, health, flexibility, all of those physiological things have a great effect on my mind.




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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: wellage] * 1
    #12471908 - 04/28/10 02:10 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

And here I was thinking that I could eat Cheetos all day in my La-Z-Boy while meditating the pounds away!


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Yoga 101? [Re: yogabunny]
    #12471916 - 04/28/10 02:11 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

wellage said:
you can't take advantage of the "spiritual" (I don't like that term either) benefits of yoga without a healthy body.




Some sages who attained full Yoga didn't take care of their bodies at all

Quote:

yogabunny said:

:facepalm:

you're missing the whole point. it's not about having a tight body





I was talking about physical benefits vs mental benefits
And physical benefits include toned body, balance etc...


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Offlinewellage
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: Chronic7]
    #12471930 - 04/28/10 02:12 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Quote:

wellage said:
you can't take advantage of the "spiritual" (I don't like that term either) benefits of yoga without a healthy body.





You don't know what your talking about

Quote:

yogabunny said:

:facepalm:

you're missing the whole point. it's not about having a tight body





I was talking about physical benefits vs mental benefits
And physical benefits include toned body, balance etc...




Please, enlighten me, sensei.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: wellage]
    #12471937 - 04/28/10 02:14 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Spirituality 101

senseis duel to the death...


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: wellage]
    #12471954 - 04/28/10 02:17 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

wellage said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
Meditation stills your body and mind, yet it doesn't tone it.
If you weren't interested in toning/muscle strength, wouldn't you just meditate?




If you can still your body and mind with only meditation, I applaud you.

I, however, need to take advantage of my entire PSYCHOSOMATIC being to benefit from meditation.

In my humble experience, and I know I'm not the only one, I NEED asana to progress at all. Meditation alone will not do it.

It's more than just muscle strength and tone. Balance, health, flexibility, all of those physiological things have a great effect on my mind.




IMO dynamic meditation such as that of yoga (as known in the west) or Tai Chi are easier than just sitting because the sensations are more salient. You can easily find a sensation to focus on, and it's powerful enough to wash out whatever else may be going on in the background. But just sitting provides the same opportunities, it just requires more focus. You can scan your body and focus on sensations, picking one spot at a time if that works. Just feeling your foot, feeling it while it's doing absolutely nothing at all. There are sensations there. They come and they go, even though you're doing nothing.

So if the mind chatter is intense, I find that the physical manifestations of Yoga are a delight in my day. The sensations cut straight through the rumble by being overpowering. Like LOOK AT ME, I'M STILL HERE, GET OUT OF YOUR THOUGHTS. But if there is more calm in my day from the get go, it isn't a requirement to still my body and mind. I try and focus on my breath as soon as I awaken as I'm not a morning person. I'm prone to get caught up in thoughts of "Why am I awake?!" if I don't examine what's happening in my body right away. And if I do examine it, I generally find myself surprised to find an abundance of energy and well-being ready from the get go. It's getting caught in those negative thoughts that really changes the experience.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinewellage
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: Chronic7]
    #12472417 - 04/28/10 03:52 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

You still aren't feelin me.

The posture PREPARES me to meditate while sitting. 

And when I sit to meditate after successfully completing a set of postures, my body is quelled and I don't have to focus on my foot to get where I want to be.

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Quote:

wellage said:
you can't take advantage of the "spiritual" (I don't like that term either) benefits of yoga without a healthy body.




Some sages who attained full Yoga didn't take care of their bodies at all




Sorry man, I don't know any sages. All I can speak from is my personal experience working with my teacher and peers.


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Offlinebassfrequences
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Re: Yoga 101? *DELETED* [Re: wellage]
    #12476042 - 04/29/10 08:16 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by bassfrequences

Reason for deletion: miscomprehension



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Knowledge is nothing without skill. Skill is nothing without attitude and commitment. Our imagination is the limit


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: bassfrequences]
    #12476081 - 04/29/10 08:26 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bassfrequences said:
QUOTE: Is there anything in particular that y'all want to know about? 
THANKS PEOPLE
I dont dare ask anything else on this thread
I think I got the wrong jist of it :bye:




I think it was implied that she meant, "anything within my realm of experience."
No big whoop!  I just think it's more than a little amusing that something that is used
to foster an awareness of our spiritual self would be considered for violent
purposes.  Not that fighting can't be an art, but just violence for the sake of it
seems a bit silly.

I suggest taking up yoga for serious, it might allow some reflection on your actions, dig?


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: Todcasil]
    #12477141 - 04/29/10 12:06 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

the whole point of the Sutras, and, well, the reason there are sooo many different styles and paths to Yoga; is because we're all so different.

i don't understand why this thread devolved into an argument about why people do or do not practice asana.


it's just one way in, you don't HAVE to do it.  the sutras present us with the eight limbed path of yoga but i don't believe it says anywhere that you have to follow them in order, or do them all.  personally what's worked for me is many years of asana, and now i am getting more into pranayama and meditation.

some people just do pranayama, so just do meditation, etc etc et al.

it's a fact though that asana will make it easier to sit for long periods of time in meditation.


and to Chronic777 i will try one more time.

a balanced & toned body through asana practice = a balanced and toned mind.



also i want to share this with you guys.  it's the first paragraph in the introduction to the translation of the Sutras translation by Sri Swami Satchitanada, written by Vidya Vonne.

"When the word Yoga is mentioned, most people immediately think of some physical practices for stretching and stress reduction.  This is one aspect of the Yogic science, but actually only a very small part and relatively recent in development.  The physical Yoga, or Hatha Yoga, was primarily designed to facilitate the real practice of Yoga -- namely, the understand and complete master over the mind.  So the actual meaning of Yoga is science of the mind."


:aum:


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: yogabunny]
    #12477268 - 04/29/10 12:30 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

i don't understand why this thread devolved into an argument about why people do or do not practice asana.

There was no argument intended, at least not on my end, and I really doubt on chronic's end either. And I'm sorry that it did get derailed a bit. It seemed to have sparked some defenses on all sides -- I caught myself going "Why don't you get what I'm really trying to say!?" Then upon seeing that in my own post, I deleted it and let the thread be.

Perhaps this can explain some of that though. It wasn't meant to be aggressive, although I definitely think the tension brought on unwanted effects. This wasn't the thread to question yogic identity, and for that I am sincerely sorry. I commend your efforts to get back on track :sun:

So the actual meaning of Yoga is science of the mind

:cheers:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Yoga 101? [Re: yogabunny]
    #12482072 - 04/30/10 06:09 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

yogabunny said:

and to Chronic777 i will try one more time.

a balanced & toned body through asana practice = a balanced and toned mind.





I got that the first time, my questioning was to dive deeper into why this is
As that must be at the Heart of what we called Yoga (union)
Using effort to reach effortlessness
Using discipline to reach liberation

I feel its almost as if the resistance & effort of holding an asana afterwards creates a 'let go' that makes meditation more supple
Its like strongly holding something to the point that when you stop, you can't do anything but let it go
Like when you lift weights, afterwards your arms can feel really really light, as you push push push, then totally let go...
Like this asana can break/push the minds limits so when you meditate the mind is already opened up & avaialble to be as supple & subtle as the space within

Or like releasing latent energy from the spine, how bending/twisting/stretching can open up energy meridians/chakras etc...
I didn't come in this thread to attack people practices, i came here to provoke us to look at why we practice and how those practices assist or hinder us
To look & see that ultimately what we are is totally already unified and these practices are just to remove barriers to that intuitive truth

Rumi
"you need not seek for love, only seek & find the barriers wihtin yourself which you have built against it"

:peace:


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: Chronic7]
    #12482317 - 04/30/10 08:08 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

huh?

i like to KISS: keep it simple sweetie, and this was a thread to answer basic questions about Yoga in a simple way, there's enough confusion about Yoga out there.

you should study/research the koshas, if you haven't already.  we briefly touched on them in the subtle body workshop in my training but they delve deeper into what you're talking about here. 



also, the point of asana is to let go of effort, and that is part of what allows you to achieve Yoga by doing it.  a sattvic pose is a blend of stability, flexibility and grace.  from the stability you create with your foundation, the rest of the poses blossoms forth: effortlessly.  now you have achieved Yoga by standing on one leg, arms raised toward the sky in anjali mudra.




love the rumi quote.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Yoga 101? [Re: yogabunny]
    #12482325 - 04/30/10 08:12 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

yogabunny said:

also, the point of asana is to let go of effort, and that is part of what allows you to achieve Yoga by doing it.  a sattvic pose is a blend of stability, flexibility and grace.  from the stability you create with your foundation, the rest of the poses blossoms forth: effortlessly. 






Thats the kind of response i was looking for from you :rose:

To my mind, what i said in that last post was very very simple :shrug:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: Chronic7]
    #12482834 - 04/30/10 11:10 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

yogabunny said:
i like to KISS: keep it simple sweetie




I always heard this acronym expressed as keep it simple stupid.  :lol:

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
To look & see that ultimately what we are is totally already unified and these practices are just to remove barriers to that intuitive truth




I don't really understand this; if we're already totally unified then why would we even need to perform all these practices?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: deCypher]
    #12483001 - 04/30/10 11:52 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

because our cluttered minds and bad habits keep us from knowing/seeing/being present.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: yogabunny]
    #12483007 - 04/30/10 11:53 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Right, which would mean we're not already totally unified, no?  Wouldn't reshaping these bad habits be part of the process of unification?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Yoga 101? [Re: deCypher]
    #12483778 - 04/30/10 02:02 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
To look & see that ultimately what we are is totally already unified and these practices are just to remove barriers to that intuitive truth




I don't really understand this; if we're already totally unified then why would we even need to perform all these practices?




Seeing that & fully accepting it, to the extent you feel it energetically and your mind comes to total rest, is the practice :wink:


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Yoga 101? [Re: Chronic7]
    #12503713 - 05/04/10 08:36 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

so, since i started this thread i've been re-reading the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, translated by Swami Satchitananda.  First of all, he is sooooo cute and funny.  :heart:

second of all, i wanted to share with you one of my favorite Sutras, on OM.

:aum:

Tasya Vacakah Pranavah

"The word expressive of Isvara is the mystic sound of OM. [Note: OM is God's name as well as form]

I want to point out that there is an Editor's Note earlier in the text that states:

As Sri Gurudev explained in Sutra 23, God is neither "He" nor "She" nor "It", but rather the cosmic consciousness, according to Yogic thinking.  The word "God" should be taken throughout the text with this understanding unless otherwise specified.

His commentary on this sutra is 3 pages long, and I am not going to copy the whole thing, but his translation is definitely worth the purchase if you want to delve deeper into Yoga philosophy....here are some important tid bits:


OM can be split into 3 letters A-U-M and from there it divides into 4 stages.

A - the beginning of all sounds, sound made when you open your mouth and produce sound
U - the oo sound made as the sound moves forward from the throat through the lips
M - closing of the lips

&

anagata - "the one that is always in you, even before beginning with A and ending with M, there is always a sound vibration within you that cannot be destroyed.  you can always listen to that sound if you remain quiet"



:aum:


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