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OfflineConnor4050
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Karma, Do you believe in it?
    #12455546 - 04/25/10 06:50 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not sure if i do.

Recently, My LSD dealer was robbed of her rent money and a couple strips of some L and some Dmt. Robbed by a "friend" she gave a place to stay because he was out on the streets.

Now, She is probably one of the most innocent people i've ever met. She is always very nice to everyone. She's offered me a place to stay in her apartment tons of times when i had no where else to go.

I feel like i've seen people who live their lives being nice to everyone, and always caring about making everyone around them happy. But always having the worse shit happen to them.

And i feel like i've seen people who live their lives, stealing, lying, and cheating. but still living their lives with little consequences.

I think the laws of Karma are mainly just based off "cause and effect"

Like if you rob someone, And they know who you are and where you live, Something obviously is going to happen to you. Not because Karma said so.


--------------------

"The moment we recognize that we can imagine, we cannot. Conversely, if we try to forget that we've recognized it, we've given up the beauty of having an imagination in the first place, and all of our past experiences mean nothing."

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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Connor4050]
    #12455566 - 04/25/10 06:54 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I do believe in karma, and that generally the more good things you do for others the more good things others do for you...but I also believe we have to be selfish or we'll get walked all over and taken for everything we got.
Also many (but not all) people who are on the streets are on the streets because they do shady shit like that to the people who give them places to stay.

I bunked someone on a vial like 4 years ago. I tried to make it right by giving them some free L the other week. It turned out the stuff that I tried to give to him to clean out my karma was bunk in itself. Was that bunk sheet my bad karma for bunking him? IDK...its just ironic that my karma caused me to be unable to clean my karma at the particular point in time I picked to do it.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #12455571 - 04/25/10 06:55 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
I do believe in karma, and that generally the more good things you do for others the more good things others do for you...but I also believe we have to be selfish or we'll get walked all over and taken for everything we got.
Also many (but not all) people who are on the streets are on the streets because they do shady shit like that to the people who give them places to stay.




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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Connor4050]
    #12455574 - 04/25/10 06:56 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Karma is cause and effect.  The only thing to believe in or not is whether its effects reach beyond this life.  Otherwise, yeah that last example is quick acting karma.  You rob somebody, and then your karma works itself out by them fucking you up cause they know where you live.

Karma isn't just "do good and good things will happen." It is a little bit, but it's really a much more subtle idea.  It would be impossible to analyze somebody else's karma because you'd have to know every thought and impression in their brain plus everything that's happened to them in their past lives, if you believe that.

They way I think about karma is that the smallest decisions probably have direct effects that most people are unaware of.  Like, say you narrowly avoid dying in a car crash.  All the past events in your life lead directly to that moment and if one thing had happened differently, you may have died.  And what if you could look back on what that one thing was, and it turns out that you lived because you helped an old lady across the street or something?  That's just my highly speculative idea of karma I guess.


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OfflineBig_Whoop
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: g00ru]
    #12455585 - 04/25/10 06:57 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

i believe


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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: g00ru]
    #12455588 - 04/25/10 06:57 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
They way I think about karma is that the smallest decisions probably have direct effects that most people are unaware of.  Like, say you narrowly avoid dying in a car crash.  All the past events in your life lead directly to that moment and if one thing had happened differently, you may have died.  And what if you could look back on what that one thing was, and it turns out that you lived because you helped an old lady across the street or something?  That's just my highly speculative idea of karma I guess.




This too.


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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: deCypher]
    #12455594 - 04/25/10 06:59 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

why are most lsd dealers females?

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OfflineNastyDHL
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Connor4050]
    #12455607 - 04/25/10 07:02 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

to quote redgreenvines from a completely different thread:

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
karma is the internal leveller
feelings are involved:
the feeling of pleasure is resultant of good karma
the feeling of pain is resultant of bad karma

indifference is resultant of neutral karma.



the roots of bad karma are hatred, greed and delusion
the roots of good karma are love, generosity and wisdom/clarity

suffering of pain is alleviated with good karma and intensified with bad karma. basic eastern psychology. I think it works,
but not necessarily via re-incarnation into subsequent bodies.
it is particularly effective within the life span.

it is not so much about what happens, but how what happens is translated into feelings (particularly pain or pleasure).



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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: NastyDHL]
    #12455639 - 04/25/10 07:10 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

hmmm interesting that's a different take


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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: NastyDHL]
    #12455649 - 04/25/10 07:12 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

i believe karma affects everything in life including thoughts

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Offlinedruqs
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: dust]
    #12455657 - 04/25/10 07:14 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

if it does exist i'm owed a fuck load of positivity nuggets.

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OfflineNastyDHL
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: g00ru]
    #12455662 - 04/25/10 07:15 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

i think it is fucking hilarious ironic when someone takes pleasure out of someone else's hypothetical pain when they have been wronged and they say "well that fucker will get whats coming to him. karma is a bitch"--when really they are just invoking bad karma on themselves by wanting another to suffer.

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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: NastyDHL]
    #12455671 - 04/25/10 07:18 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

NastyDHL said:
i think it is fucking hilarious ironic when someone takes pleasure out of someone else's hypothetical pain when they have been wronged and they say "well that fucker will get whats coming to him. karma is a bitch"--when really they are just invoking bad karma on themselves by wanting another to suffer.




yeah that's true, i don't hope people will suffer, it usually just happens in one way or another

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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: NastyDHL]
    #12455681 - 04/25/10 07:21 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

NastyDHL said:
to quote redgreenvines from a completely different thread:

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
karma is the internal leveller
feelings are involved:
the feeling of pleasure is resultant of good karma
the feeling of pain is resultant of bad karma

indifference is resultant of neutral karma.



the roots of bad karma are hatred, greed and delusion
the roots of good karma are love, generosity and wisdom/clarity

suffering of pain is alleviated with good karma and intensified with bad karma. basic eastern psychology. I think it works,
but not necessarily via re-incarnation into subsequent bodies.
it is particularly effective within the life span.

it is not so much about what happens, but how what happens is translated into feelings (particularly pain or pleasure).







--------------------
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OfflineFrost
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: NastyDHL]
    #12455684 - 04/25/10 07:21 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

NastyDHL said:
to quote redgreenvines from a completely different thread:

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
karma is the internal leveller
feelings are involved:
the feeling of pleasure is resultant of good karma
the feeling of pain is resultant of bad karma

indifference is resultant of neutral karma.



the roots of bad karma are hatred, greed and delusion
the roots of good karma are love, generosity and wisdom/clarity

suffering of pain is alleviated with good karma and intensified with bad karma. basic eastern psychology. I think it works,
but not necessarily via re-incarnation into subsequent bodies.
it is particularly effective within the life span.

it is not so much about what happens, but how what happens is translated into feelings (particularly pain or pleasure).








Interesting. Never thought about it like that.


--------------------
“I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens.
I've been knocking from the inside.” - Rumi

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” - Carl Sagan

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OfflineNastyDHL
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Frost]
    #12455724 - 04/25/10 07:28 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

yeah, i think most people really have no idea what karma is, they just have this superstitious belief that they choose to acknowledge only when it will benefit them in some way.

and some people do nice shit only to preach about their fear of bad karma, which is entirely backwards.

its like clockwork orange. you begin to do seemingly decent things merely to avoid punishments for doing the bad things that you probably would do if you could get away with.

i was like that for a while...living in fear like that i mean...

then i was like damn, i don't even feel any of the love from doing good things to people! how fucking whack is that?

i would hold the door open for old ladies,not because they are frail and weak and it would take more effort of theirs than mine to open it, or because they would appreciate being respected and cared for by a person whom expects nothing in return. i would do it because my momma taught me that nice boys hold the door open for women and i want to be a nice boy.

to me, its bad karma to do good things to not get punished, or to do good things for the rewards.

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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: NastyDHL]
    #12455742 - 04/25/10 07:31 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

NastyDHL said:
i would hold the door open for old ladies

to me, its bad karma to do good things to not get punished, or to do good things for the rewards.




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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: deCypher]
    #12455781 - 04/25/10 07:39 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Cypher said:
Quote:

NastyDHL said:
i would hold the door open for old ladies

to me, its bad karma to do good things to not get punished, or to do good things for the rewards.







i don't understand...




but anyway, i guess everything is for a reward, some are just egotistical which is where the bad karma comes in to play. wanting to believe you are a nice boy.

nowadays i hold the door open for old ladies cause it makes me feel good to see em smile and feel good :awesome:

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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Connor4050]
    #12455893 - 04/25/10 07:57 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

When you add reincarnation into the equation, karma incurred during past lives can cause repercussions in this life.

The reason that bad things happen to good people is because of actions performed in previous incarnations.

If you fucked someone over in a previous life, eventually that energy recycles into this one so that you experience a similar level of pain that you caused.

This is just my basic understanding of it.. I do think there is truth to our ideas of karma and reincarnation, but I also suspect our beliefs about how these things really work is somewhat off.

What we call karma is probably just our limited interpretation of something infinitely more complex and beyond our comprehension.


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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Adamist]
    #12455950 - 04/25/10 08:09 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

so Hitlers next 2million or so reincarnations are really gonna suck...

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OfflineFrost
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Adamist]
    #12455956 - 04/25/10 08:10 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Adamist said:
When you add reincarnation into the equation, karma incurred during past lives can cause repercussions in this life.

The reason that bad things happen to good people is because of actions performed in previous incarnations.

If you fucked someone over in a previous life, eventually that energy recycles into this one so that you experience a similar level of pain that you caused.

This is just my basic understanding of it.. I do think there is truth to our ideas of karma and reincarnation, but I also suspect our beliefs about how these things really work is somewhat off.

What we call karma is probably just our limited interpretation of something infinitely more complex and beyond our comprehension.




I don't buy into the whole reincarnation and past lives thing. Though I haven't researched it, AT ALL, it seems like hippy talk from the outside.
What if life is just a roll of the dice and a flip of a coin... and bad things happen to good people just because it's a cold fucking world and bad shit happens a lot?


--------------------
“I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens.
I've been knocking from the inside.” - Rumi

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” - Carl Sagan

Edited by Frost (04/25/10 08:11 PM)

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OfflineCepheus
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: NastyDHL]
    #12455958 - 04/25/10 08:10 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

That's what those buddhists call "right intention".

I believe in some kind of universal balance, don't know if my perception is karma or what, but I think in a general kind of way everything tends towards an equlibrium.. a state of least energy. I think the common perception of karma is what a chemist would call "Le Chatellier's principle".. and I believe in this to a degree as well; when a system is subjected to a change, the system acts in a manner to minimize the effect of the change (i.e. counteract it), in an attempt to attain a state of least energy.

I visualise it as a sine wave.. ultimately the area swept out by the curve is equal to zero.

(I think in terms of science and math, with a hint of pseudo spirituality thrown in :suicide:).


--------------------
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OfflineConnor4050
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Frost]
    #12455978 - 04/25/10 08:15 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Frost said:
Quote:

Adamist said:
When you add reincarnation into the equation, karma incurred during past lives can cause repercussions in this life.

The reason that bad things happen to good people is because of actions performed in previous incarnations.

If you fucked someone over in a previous life, eventually that energy recycles into this one so that you experience a similar level of pain that you caused.

This is just my basic understanding of it.. I do think there is truth to our ideas of karma and reincarnation, but I also suspect our beliefs about how these things really work is somewhat off.

What we call karma is probably just our limited interpretation of something infinitely more complex and beyond our comprehension.




I don't buy into the whole reincarnation and past lives thing. Though I haven't researched it, AT ALL, it seems like hippy talk from the outside.
What if life is just a roll of the dice and a flip of a coin... and bad things happen to good people just because it's a cold fucking world and bad shit happens a lot?




I'm going to have to agree with this.

I believe life is just random occurring events that happen for no reason. not because some sort of energy is causing bad shit to happen because you have "negative karma".


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"The moment we recognize that we can imagine, we cannot. Conversely, if we try to forget that we've recognized it, we've given up the beauty of having an imagination in the first place, and all of our past experiences mean nothing."

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Connor4050]
    #12456009 - 04/25/10 08:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You said it yourself man.  If you rob somebody's house, you are inviting bad shit to happen to you.  That's karma.  Except it also applies to thoughts, and to past lives.


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OfflineConnor4050
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: g00ru]
    #12456051 - 04/25/10 08:27 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
You said it yourself man.  If you rob somebody's house, you are inviting bad shit to happen to you.  That's karma.  Except it also applies to thoughts, and to past lives.




Yes, but if you break into someones house that they know who you are and where you live, that's almost expected that something is going to happen to you.

But if you broke into some completely random strangers house, and the next day you got hit by a car and died, I believe that had nothing to do with "karma" but just how life works from random occurring events.


--------------------

"The moment we recognize that we can imagine, we cannot. Conversely, if we try to forget that we've recognized it, we've given up the beauty of having an imagination in the first place, and all of our past experiences mean nothing."

Edited by Connor4050 (04/25/10 08:29 PM)

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Connor4050]
    #12456092 - 04/25/10 08:32 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Well maybe, but I tend to believe that cause and effect relationships in the universe are infinitely complex.  Read about dependent origination, which is a Buddhist concept. Basically it says that everything is dependent upon everything else to exist, that the universe is entirely interconnected. If that's the case, then it's impossible that any single event is truly random.  It's all caused by something.


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OfflineConnor4050
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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: g00ru]
    #12456101 - 04/25/10 08:34 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
Well maybe, but I tend to believe that cause and effect relationships in the universe are infinitely complex.  Read about dependent origination, which is a Buddhist concept. Basically it says that everything is dependent upon everything else to exist, that the universe is entirely interconnected. If that's the case, then it's impossible that any single event is truly random.  It's all caused by something.




Alright, I'll keep an open mind and check it out. :thumbup:


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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Connor4050]
    #12456179 - 04/25/10 08:43 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I don't really like using the words karma and reincarnation.. it's like the words god or religion.

They are loaded terms, and some people automatically close their minds to the possibilities upon hearing them.

The truth is most likely stranger/more complex than we could ever begin to fully understand.


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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Adamist]
    #12456314 - 04/25/10 09:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Fiction is still stranger than truth.


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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: deCypher]
    #12456318 - 04/25/10 09:06 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You sure about that? I think reality is much stranger than we realize...


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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Adamist]
    #12456323 - 04/25/10 09:07 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I don't believe in Karma, but I do like that show "My Name Is Earl"

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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Adamist]
    #12456398 - 04/25/10 09:22 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Adamist said:
You sure about that? I think reality is much stranger than we realize...




i was on an lsd trip last week and reality was way too bizarre for me to accept...

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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: NastyDHL]
    #12456461 - 04/25/10 09:36 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

there is nothing mystical about karma
literally translated, the word means "action" -- IE, action/reaction, or the laws of cause and effect (specifically as relates to awareness)

all it's meant to imply is that your state of mind determines your perception of the world and other people


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Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: laserpig] * 1
    #12456651 - 04/25/10 10:10 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i dont see it as your nice friend being dealt her dose of karma for wrongs she has done, more that the homeless junkie has now balanced his karma in a negative way and sooner or late more bad will come to him.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: Dosile Kouki]
    #12456743 - 04/25/10 10:23 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Does +1 count as karma?

I genuinely wonder these things sometimes...


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Invisibletito123
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Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 3,006
Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #12456860 - 04/25/10 10:41 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I believe if we do good things, our mindset will change to where we have an overall positive outlook on life.  If someone gets screwed over, they will view their situation much better than someone who has done bad things.  All the things we view good or bad, are determined in our minds

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Invisibleplurfekt
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Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1,919
Loc: USA
Re: Karma, Do you believe in it? [Re: tito123]
    #12457926 - 04/26/10 02:49 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

A long time ago when I was in a tough situation I did some things to make it go away.  I ended up hurting an innocent girl.  At the time I was so drugged out nothing mattered except a moments silence.. silence screaming in my ears.

I went through a lot after that.  It wasn't until I did LSD that the shame really hit.

I think about that girl, who's face I can barely remember.. a girl who told my friends to tell me that she wants me dead, a girl I thought was beautiful, funny, smart.  A girl that I hurt (not physically or emotionally).

My life has been a living hell ever since.  I completely believe in Karma, hell.. it lead me here.

I spend most of my life completely ashamed of who I am, who I've become and all the things I did, especially this.  I dream up situations where I could make up for it, take a bullet, take a charge, send an anonymous package full of money to the girl.  I dream of what it's like to be forgiven, knowing I'll never see the day.

Back when I did those things I wasn't who I am now.. now that I am who I am now I can't go back and not do those things.

I feel like karma has been having it's way with me for quite a while.. all I can ask whatever thing us pagans can relate to as god; how can I make up for this.. what can I do, to change?  When will I know when I've made up for this, will the punishment never end?

I sit alone.  I'm alone all the time.

And all I can see is that girl, and all the things I wish I had done differently, all the possibilities that no longer exist.

In a strange way, I care more about that girl then I do myself.. I barely knew her.

Karma doesn't exist, at least.. that's what I used to believe.

I've talked to people about it, and the best piece of advice anyone gave me was to do good deeds.  Random acts of kindness.  Give when it hurts to give..

So now I give up my seat on the bus, I hold all the doors and I never try to hurt anyone.  But whatever it was that made me do those things from the beginning will always be that other side of me, the side I'll never want anyone to see.

I fucking hate myself.

A year ago I believed I was a sociopath.

How's that for karma?

EDIT_

On a more spiritual note, I believe all living creatures are connected - some are more conscious of this fact.

It's like.. if most of the wheels on the bus are turning for evil, it's most likely that it rolls the wrong way for the majority of people.  And vice versa.. if there was 90% good people with good intentions of the world, there would be a lot less bad going around.

I had a realization on LSD, that the movie or "idea" behind Pass it on, was the most brilliant thing I had ever heard of.  It made sense to me on in a sociological perspective.. I remember looking around at all the people.. wondering, if the slightest actions on my part.. could guide the entire crowd, if performed clever.

I failed to act.  It didn't end pretty.. hippies getting punched and landing on black lights, watching blood poor out of someone's face who I had just-so-randomly been in the psych ward with, the cops came...lights turned back on.

I remember when I said goodbye to the guy who was bleeding (and started the fight yet no one but me knew, and as he wasn't entirely there upstairs I let this detail slide until later on).

He asked me for a cig.  I said sure.  He asked for another one, I said hehe, okay man.  I let him use my lighter..

I turned to leave the building, and the town

He looked up at me and said "Your leaving?", I said Yeah.  Asked "Are you ever coming back?", and I said "No, I don't think so.. take care" and I left him with my special lighter.

I felt bad for him.  This was my second time ever experiencing empathy.

The entire night up to that point I had contemplated knocking him out.. to save the night, I had even talked to my friends about it.

I saw a lot of flaws in my character that night.

Edited by plurfekt (04/26/10 02:59 AM)

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