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Offlinepairshroom
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UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins
    #12454861 - 04/25/10 04:40 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

My first bulk grow:

I have been allowing 10 quart jars of organic rye berries colonize, prepared according to RR's DVD technique, with meticulous technique at all phases. They were inoculated with spore syringes from SporeWorks (used two different syringes - one each for 5 jars). I had mycelium appearing at day 4, shake using tire at 25% colonization at day 9, and shaking today at day 16 to spawn to coir:coffeegrains:verm:gypsum pasturized substrate.

The jars looked quite healthy and were never opened until today. They were completely white without any excess moisture or slime, and broke up with about 5 or 6 blows on a tire. When I opened the jars, all 10 of them have the same odor of a faint mushroom smell with a superimposed faint fruity odor - not noxious or disgusting, but still raising some concern to this neophyte.

When spawning to the substrate, no suspicious areas noted (i.e., no funny colors and no slimy or other unexpected appearance). A few small chunks of rye grains held together by mycelia were noted, but I saw this on RR's video, too, and I think they were just some chunks that I didn't fully break up with jar shaking. Using sterile gloved hands, I was able to easily break these up.

I used a 1:2 spawn:substrate ratio, about 3 1/2 inches deep in a 6 quart clear shoebox-sized Sterilite container, covered with aluminum foil. I have 5 such containers (two jars of spawn per container).

I guess I'll just see how they develop and hope they colonize. Thinking back on my technique, I don't see how I could have done anything cleaner.

Any feedback from the forum would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Edited by pairshroom (05/15/10 03:22 PM)

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Offlineelectrics
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12454898 - 04/25/10 04:47 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I think you will be fine..you're fruity smell is most likely from the rye berries.I've never used rye but with WBS it's always a mix of that shroomy smell and bird seed!! Good Luck but I think they will be :thumbup:..E


--------------------
"Listen now I'm talking I've been here for weeks, waiting in this growing crowd staring at my feet, The world around me is Turning I'm just standing still, The time has come for changes do something or I will" Phish

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: electrics]
    #12454954 - 04/25/10 05:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the reassurance.

Not sure how significant this additional info is, but I noted that after first setting up the jars, I could definitely smell the rye berry odor (same odor as when preparing the rye berries) through the filter. After the jars began to colonize, the odor became less and less, until I really couldn't smell it once colonization was complete. Presumably, this is because all of the rye berries were covered in mycelia.

You might be right about the odor, which I only smelled after opening the jars. They were already shaken up at that point, exposing the rye berries again. Unfortunately, I didn't open the jars to smell them before breaking up the mycelial mass as a control. I did not, however, smell this odor through the filter before opening the jars, so presumably it IS a consequence of exposing the rye berries from shaking.

Thanks.


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12455159 - 04/25/10 05:39 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I read in Mycelium running that layering the spawn together leads to better colonization than mixing it. I have not tried it yet, but it's Paul fucking Stamets, he must be right. If you were mixing your spawn you may notice that layering it will lead to better and faster colonization IHO.

Though the smell could be rye it also could be a contam. Wait and see is your only approach. If it is a contaminant the myc may best it, but it also may re-surge particularly in later flushes.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #12455187 - 04/25/10 05:47 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I did layer spawn and substrate. Basically one jar of substrate, followed by a jar of spawn, followed by a jar of substrate, another jar of spawn, and covered with a jar of substrate, with slight agitation of the container back and forth after each jar. Basically, the same way that RR does it in his video.

Thanks.


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12455265 - 04/25/10 06:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

probibly the smell of the rye then, but if contaminants ensue update this thread.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #12455284 - 04/25/10 06:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I guess what I was hoping to find was someone who has experienced this same phenomenon, preferably with a happy ending.

Either way, I will update this thread with my results in a week or two. Which raises another question - how long should colonization of the substrate take, given the setup I described above?

Thanks.


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12458106 - 04/26/10 04:46 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Anyone else have any thoughts about this?

Thanks.


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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Invisibleandymc
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12458247 - 04/26/10 06:11 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The fruity smell is quite possibly unwanted bacteria.  Rye doesn't smell fruity and neither does mycelium.

The happy ending could be that you spawn it anyway, and the mycelium wins.  Happened to me.


--------------------
How I make spore prints
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"Get the lights, Mr. Grim Reaper"  -odds

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Offlineelectrics
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: andymc]
    #12459522 - 04/26/10 12:41 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The important thing is that the smell was not overpowering you are bound to wind up with some sort of Bactria's present in you're substrate regardless..sometimes you even want them present to induce fruiting..however when trying to stretch a tub to it's 4th. or 5th. flush the Bactria's always seem to win at least in my case!! However I use nothing but pasteurized hpoo and coir nothing else no gypsum no coffee grinds..that's just my way!! I also don't cultivate for sale it's purely a hobby and to my friends the spoils..as far as time I would say keep it in a dark place for 10-12 days take a peak see where you are at..you may need a couple more days or it may be ready..I also never use a casing layer so am no help on that topic..Hope all goes well ..E


--------------------
"Listen now I'm talking I've been here for weeks, waiting in this growing crowd staring at my feet, The world around me is Turning I'm just standing still, The time has come for changes do something or I will" Phish

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Offlinepairshroom
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UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: electrics]
    #12468705 - 04/27/10 09:53 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ?

Well, I spawned to substrate 48 hours ago (as described above), and am using a tray-in-tray technique, with the outer tray lined in dark plastic, and the inner tray covered in aluminum foil. Since the trays are clear, this allows me to peek through the side of the inner tray, by temporarily lifting it out of the light-blackening outer one. I have 5 trays total, using a 1:2 spawn:substrate ratio (2 quarts spawn:4 quarts of coir:verm:coffee:gypsum).

Conditions: ambient room temp 70-75 deg F; ambient humidity 45-50%

It looks like the mycelium is rebounding from the shaking and re-colonizing the grain and starting to colonize the substrate. I assume this is an encouraging sign, given the slight mushroomy + fruity scent I described above.

I am a bit concerned about the moderate condensation forming on the inner walls so early on, though. The substrate moisture content was right on target with respect to field capacity (per RR's DVD), and there shouldn't be that much temperature differential from inside to outside yet with the amount of mycelia present (or should there be?).

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks.










Edited by pairshroom (05/08/10 10:14 PM)

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12468760 - 04/27/10 10:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

As the mycelium grows and colonizes it can product quite a bit of heat which will cause the condensation.

Try sliding a thermometer probe in near there and see the difference.

I've recorded up to a 12 or 13f difference in temperature with a 6 quart bag of substrate.





Room temperature was 70f.


--------------------
Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: Spongiform]
    #12472426 - 04/28/10 03:54 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not nearly fully colonized yet, though (only day 3 in substrate), so I wonder if there could be enough heat from the scant mycelia at this point to result in condensation. I had this condensation by 12-24 hours. My substrate was about 80 degrees when I emptied the jars into the trays and spawned. Could this be the reason?

Not much I can do now, I guess. Just hope it doesn't get any wetter in there.


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12472520 - 04/28/10 04:20 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

looks normal and very healthy. your future looks bright.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: anonjon]
    #12472610 - 04/28/10 04:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Not much I can do now, I guess. Just hope it doesn't get any wetter in there.



It's not getting any wetter, more of a re-distribution of the current moisture.  It'll usually condense on the sides then eventually bead up and run down and back into the substrate.


--------------------
Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #12472885 - 04/28/10 05:31 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

A bit of condensation is normal.  It's warmer inside the jar than outside, and that causes condensation.  Since your jars broke up so easily on a tire, I'd say you're OK.  When bacteria rears it's ugly head, the mycelium is very hard and sometimes impossible to break up that way.

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
I read in Mycelium running that layering the spawn together leads to better colonization than mixing it. I have not tried it yet, but it's Paul fucking Stamets, he must be right. If you were mixing your spawn you may notice that layering it will lead to better and faster colonization IHO.





I've been saying to layer for years.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7599746#7599746
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10310429#10310429
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11520730#11520730
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6895749#6895749
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10794510#10794510
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5113469#5113469
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



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Offlineskullhuman
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12473961 - 04/28/10 08:56 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
When bacteria rears it's ugly head, the mycelium is very hard and sometimes impossible to break up that way.





huh! Not to thread jack, but I've had some jars that I couldn't completely break up for the life of me.  I didn't notice any signs of bacterial contam, but I also had no idea this was one of them.  If myc is very tough like this, is it always a sign of contamination? Or might it also just be the way certain myc is?


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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: skullhuman]
    #12473995 - 04/28/10 09:05 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

huh! Not to thread jack, but I've had some jars that I couldn't completely break up for the life of me.  I didn't notice any signs of bacterial contam, but I also had no idea this was one of them.  If myc is very tough like this, is it always a sign of contamination? Or might it also just be the way certain myc is?




Sometimes I get clumps of what appears to be an oily congealed mass in my jars that just won't break up by shaking.  I just let it colonize around that and use it anyway.


--------------------
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Offlineskullhuman
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: Spongiform]
    #12474194 - 04/28/10 09:49 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Well, here's the deal - I have a print that always seems to yield tough myc, although I've never noticed any bacterial contams and it has spawned fine.  I wonder if the print is in fact contaminated, or if the toughness is just a trait of this myc.


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Invisibleuncle_rico
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Re: UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12474330 - 04/28/10 10:15 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Condensation during the colonization of your bulk substrate is good.  Growing mycelium creates heat.

At day one, the mycelium is recovering and is not generating much heat / condensation.  By day three, the mycelium is starting to tear through the bulk substrate.  I can feel the heat through the tub bottom and my monotub window has so much condensation it is difficult to see through.

You will also get condensation as your fruit bodies grow.

Good luck.


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12479299 - 04/29/10 06:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I've been saying to layer for years.





Yea, but stamets has more Cred, besides whenever I've seen you do it you seldom mention the important issue to people of faster colonization. However, that last link of yours is interesting, it makes it seem that the layering may actually help the spawn recover and by double whammy (synergetic) effect put the bacteria right next to the spawn, which is much more likely to kill it and colonize without impediment. Interesting.

Frankly, I wish you mentioned that layering does things like ^above^ more often, it has cost me... some money. My foolishness about not heeding such advice in the past I mean.


That said, a 1:2 ratio is good if you think you smelled mild contams in the spawn.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12494178 - 05/02/10 03:17 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected?

Disappointing news, I think.

This is day #7 after spawning to my coir:coffee_grounds:verm:gypsum substrate in five 6 quart trays (as discussed in detail in earlier posts above).

I was getting pretty fast colonization in all trays, that I was able to see by intermittently lifting the inner tray (clear) from the outer blackening one. I did not remove the foil until today (to inspect and take pics), which I did because colonization was slowing. I particularly noted that the bottoms of all five trays are rather slow to colonize (see pic).

To my surprise, I found what I suspect is cobweb mold on the surface of all five containers, particularly notable in the corners, which slope downwards a bit. The texture reminded me a bit of pussy willow buds. I have submitted some pics for feedback from folks smarter than I. I also noted that there were a few non-colonized areas on the surface of two or three trays, (presumably due to the contamination?).

Finally, not sure how significant this is, but I didn't smell the mushroom odor too well in the two trays that I sniffed. I blotted up some of this water from the surface using a clean paper towel, after which I was able to clearly smell the normal mushroom scent quite easily. Is this confirmation of an overlying contam?

I replaced the aluminum foil on the trays for now. Should I just toss these trays at this point or is it possible what I think is contamination is cottony mycelia?












--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

Edited by pairshroom (05/08/10 10:14 PM)

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Invisibledancefloordale
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12494256 - 05/02/10 03:38 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

That's not cobweb, you have very strong rhizomorphic growth. Sometimes myc will form little puffs of growth, don't know why but I get them all them all the time.

I'm not sure why the bottom of that one tray looks the way it does. Could be wetter there and is taking the myc longer to colonize that area. How did you spawns? Mix/layer?


--------------------
Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.

Hydra Tek - A detailed guide, for newest to the most skilled cultivators.

HCA

Bulk growing made easy-discussion
Bulk Growing Made Easy

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: dancefloordale]
    #12494299 - 05/02/10 03:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I layered the spawn and substrate.

Not sure if the photos depict it well enough or not, but there is what reminds me of a cocoon overlying parts of the surface, in addition to the more fluffy areas.

Guess I'll wait it out for a bit before tossing everything. I have the trays at about 75-78 degrees - maybe I'll move them to a cooler environment (68-70) for now.


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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Invisibledancefloordale
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Posts: 2,522
Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12494354 - 05/02/10 04:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I think you're good. No funky smells or anything?

Please don't throw those out, I'd hate to see them go to waste.


--------------------
Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.

Hydra Tek - A detailed guide, for newest to the most skilled cultivators.

HCA

Bulk growing made easy-discussion
Bulk Growing Made Easy

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12494358 - 05/02/10 04:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I see no contams there.  The growth on top is normal.

If you had cobweb, it would be several inches thick across the entire top of your tray by now. 

Here's some examples:





The top picture worries me a bit though.  Looks like there's a huge space to colonize there and might take awhile.


--------------------
Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
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Invisibledancefloordale
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: Spongiform]
    #12494380 - 05/02/10 04:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Spongiform said:
The top picture worries me a bit though.  Looks like there's a huge space to colonize there and might take awhile.




Yeah, I agree. But I do see it breaking through in some places so it may not take too much longer.


--------------------
Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: dancefloordale]
    #12494448 - 05/02/10 04:18 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

All of the bottoms are taking long to colonize. However, I wonder how many people are using clear trays and are able to detect how colonized the substrate at the bottom really is, unless they "birth" the tray and flip it. Is it possible that the bottom isn't colonizing as fast due to trapped CO2 and/or dependent moisture/condensation? I see no pooling of water, though.

I was able to push on the bottom of the tray, transiently lifting the entire substrate by a 1/2" or so, in hopes of displacing some of the CO2 out, and perhaps facilitating completion of the colonization. I have read of some folks using PF TEK flipping their jars to accomplish something analogous to this, so I thought I'd give it a shot.

No funky smells noted. But, as I mentioned, no mushroomy smell until I blotted the surface a bit with a clean paper towel. Is this typical?

I'd hate to lose everything at this point, particularly since I was incredibly clean and meticulous during the entire process, including sterile gown, gloves, mask, hat, clean work area, disinfecting, flame sterilization of needles, etc. - you name it.


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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Invisibledancefloordale
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12495621 - 05/02/10 08:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

pairshroom said:
All of the bottoms are taking long to colonize. However, I wonder how many people are using clear trays and are able to detect how colonized the substrate at the bottom really is, unless they "birth" the tray and flip it. Is it possible that the bottom isn't colonizing as fast due to trapped CO2 and/or dependent moisture/condensation? I see no pooling of water, though.

I was able to push on the bottom of the tray, transiently lifting the entire substrate by a 1/2" or so, in hopes of displacing some of the CO2 out, and perhaps facilitating completion of the colonization. I have read of some folks using PF TEK flipping their jars to accomplish something analogous to this, so I thought I'd give it a shot.

No funky smells noted. But, as I mentioned, no mushroomy smell until I blotted the surface a bit with a clean paper towel. Is this typical?

I'd hate to lose everything at this point, particularly since I was incredibly clean and meticulous during the entire process, including sterile gown, gloves, mask, hat, clean work area, disinfecting, flame sterilization of needles, etc. - you name it.




How deep are your substrates? I don't normally have this problem. I have lined a couple monos with saran wrap so I can monitor the colonization process and none performed like this, even with a 4" depth. I suspect the moisture content is slightly higher there where some of it seeped to the bottom, or the bottom layer of substrate was just thicker in that area and is taking longer to colonize. I see multiple areas where the myc is breaking through so I wouldn't concern myself with it enough to take action.

They look really healthy, just give them some more time. :thumbup:


--------------------
Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.

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Offlinepunkrocker292004
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: dancefloordale]
    #12495666 - 05/02/10 08:21 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

flip it bro its like a big cake


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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: dancefloordale]
    #12495688 - 05/02/10 08:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The substrate is about 4" deep. I layered substrate and spawn as follows: 1 quart substrate (bottom):1 quart spawn:1 quart substrate:1 quart spawn:1 quart substrate.

If I were to do it again, I might use more, but thinner, layers, so I could get some spawn closer to the bottom and to the top, allowing these areas to colonize faster. The way I did it, I had pretty thick layers of spawn and substrate, since it is only a 6 quart container.


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
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Invisibledancefloordale
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12495727 - 05/02/10 08:33 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I prefer the bottom and top layers to be thicker, that way when they are done colonizing you are 100% sure the middle is colonized too.

Flip it if you want, probably won't harm anything, but I would not if it were my tub just in case.

I thought the tubs were much bigger, but we are talking a shoebox container size so it really isnt that big of a space to colonize after all. My vote is don't touch it but do what you feel is necessary.


--------------------
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OfflineGordy
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: dancefloordale]
    #12495866 - 05/02/10 09:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

hm, kind of odd so many prefer layering over mixing. i've done it both ways on numerous occasions side by side and the ones i mix always end up colonizing faster than the layered ones, i just recently stopped layering altogether. the slowest part for me, when layering, was the top layer 90% of the time. it would eat up through it pretty fast but it was always a day or two longer waiting for those last spots on top to finish.

don't get me wrong tho, i'm not knocking layering. im one out of thousands of people who do this, so what happens when i grow is not necessarily going to happen the same way with everybody else, which is important to keep in mind. for example, just because a shotgun fc works great for one guy over in oregon doesnt mean that its going to work the same exact way for somebody living up in minnesota. taking measurments and tweaking it until you've got everything in optimal conditions is usually what it comes down to. so if layering leads to faster colonization times, by all means layer layer layer. if mixing goes faster, then mix mix mix.

i'm no professional tho, and don't claim to be. just my observations and my :twocents:


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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: Gordy]
    #12496241 - 05/02/10 10:18 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I've tried hand mixing and mixing with an electric hand held mixer.  Didn't have very good results with by hand but worked well with an electric mixer. 

Burns them out pretty quick too though, whenever I get my place de-conned and give monotubs a try again I'll probably get a stir-bit for my drill and use that.

Something like this:


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: Spongiform]
    #12496812 - 05/03/10 12:07 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I mix, it all colonizes evenly, including the bottom. I do flip out a few trays each batch. Im not a fan of layering.

Those pics look great, just be patient.


--------------------
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12497486 - 05/03/10 04:29 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I should mention that the top mycelial layer is kinda thin, such that if I were to scratch about 1/8" to 1/4" deep, I would be into the coir substrate. Is this normal for this stage (7 days)? If so, how long for this whole tray to turn into a solid "cake"?


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
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— L. Carroll

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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12497628 - 05/03/10 06:09 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

often you would have seen full colonization by now. but don't sweat it. I bet you're on track to give it fruiting conditions by day 10. Day 10 seems to be the magic number for cubes in my experience.

The surface of the coir can look differently, depending on moisture level. If it's still very moist, you can get a thick colonization on top, or if it's a little dry, it can look kinda thin and wispy. It's nothing to worry about.


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Invisibledancefloordale
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: Gordy]
    #12498276 - 05/03/10 10:41 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Gordy said:
hm, kind of odd so many prefer layering over mixing. i've done it both ways on numerous occasions side by side and the ones i mix always end up colonizing faster than the layered ones, i just recently stopped layering altogether. the slowest part for me, when layering, was the top layer 90% of the time. it would eat up through it pretty fast but it was always a day or two longer waiting for those last spots on top to finish.

don't get me wrong tho, i'm not knocking layering. im one out of thousands of people who do this, so what happens when i grow is not necessarily going to happen the same way with everybody else, which is important to keep in mind. for example, just because a shotgun fc works great for one guy over in oregon doesnt mean that its going to work the same exact way for somebody living up in minnesota. taking measurments and tweaking it until you've got everything in optimal conditions is usually what it comes down to. so if layering leads to faster colonization times, by all means layer layer layer. if mixing goes faster, then mix mix mix.

i'm no professional tho, and don't claim to be. just my observations and my :twocents:




I layer and mix, depending on my mood. Mixing is much easier and quicker to do. Layering takes a little more time to do, but the main advantage in my opinion is when dunking, it helps to hold the substrate together much better. I haven't really noticed a time difference for the colonization period due to the spawning method, differences are usually related to moisture content.

Edit- I never measure anything out anymore, I just eye out the water lvl in the pot, eye out the amt of coir I break off the large blocks, eye out the verm, eye out the gypsum. So this is why my moisture content always slightly varies.


--------------------
Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.

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Edited by dancefloordale (05/03/10 10:49 AM)

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Offlineskullhuman
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: dancefloordale]
    #12498839 - 05/03/10 12:34 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I have personally noticed slower growth when just about anything is mixed.  It seems the myc is more aggressive as a big net than as smaller colonies spread throughout a substrate.


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Edited by skullhuman (05/04/10 06:16 PM)

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Shall Go [Re: pairshroom]
    #12529077 - 05/08/10 09:28 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Shall Go

Well, after 11 days post spawning, it looks like my 5 six quart trays are fully colonized, though some areas are more densely white with mycelia, and some are a bit more translucent white, with a hint of the brown coir substrate just beneath.

I have set up a 3 tier portable greenhouse. I have two high volume aquarium air pumps running continually, pumping air at a total volume of 18 L/min through eight 1/4" hoses which penetrate into the greenhouse in well-spaced locations on each side, and had a few questions:

(1) Do I need to case, or can I just place in the greenhouse?

(2) I cut 6" slits in several areas on all sides and the top. I was planning to run my ultrasonic humidifier (SPT SU-4010) with a repeat cycle timer, 3-4 mins on and 15-20 mins off. In some dry runs I tried, this keeps the humidity up about 90-95%. Is this an acceptable cycle?

(3) Is a Vicks V400 cool mist a better choice than my ultrasonic?

(4) What is the best location for the humidifier (assuming it's inside of the greenhouse) - top shelf, middle shelf, or bottom shelf?

(5) Do I need to seal up the bottom of this bottomless greenhouse? I have it on a new, Lysolized washing machine tray, with some piping to carry off accumulating dripping condensate.

(6) Should I put wax paper on top of the trays or keep them exposed?

(7) How long for pinning (typically)?

Thanks. I will be posting pics of everything as soon as I can.

Edited by pairshroom (05/08/10 10:37 PM)

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Invisibleconoshoto
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Re: UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Will Go [Re: pairshroom]
    #12529100 - 05/08/10 09:33 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The best location for the Vicks is on the bottom and putting some perlite in the bottom tray to catch moisture helps put it back into the air. You can use the ultrasonic with it but the Vicks should be fine to hold the humidity. Just make sure you get plenty of fae along with keeping the humidity in the 90+ :thumbup:


--------------------
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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Shall Go [Re: conoshoto]
    #12529302 - 05/08/10 10:15 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Any thoughts about adding a casing layer or sealing the bottom with plastic, etc.?

Edited by pairshroom (05/08/10 10:38 PM)

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Re: UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Shall Go [Re: pairshroom]
    #12529784 - 05/09/10 12:25 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Casing is optional and optimal. If it seems like a hassle to you, then just skip it..no big deal. A vicks is better, but an ultasonic can work. I wouldnt bother with the wax paper and I wouldnt seal the bottom.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
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Re: UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Shall Go [Re: pairshroom]
    #12534533 - 05/09/10 10:27 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

1. Don't case.

rest i'll let a greenhouse xpert chime in.


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Re: UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Shall Go [Re: anonjon]
    #12536378 - 05/10/10 11:04 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Here are some pics of my setup. I have decided to go without casing, based on others' advice and info I acquired on this site. Perhaps I might add casing after the first flush, maybe to just some of the trays.

I got an impeller coolmist humidifier (made by Kaz, #4100), which gets my humidity quickly up to 96% or so. Compared to the ultrasonic I tried initially, the coolmist generates much more airflow and doesn't saturate everything like the ultrasonic does. However, the substrate surface doesn't seem to be as moist, so I guess I need to mist with this setup? Or maybe I can run the ultrasonic on some occasional short cycles to perform this task.

I have two aquarium pumps delivering fresh air into each side of the greenhouse. I am using 1/4 vinyl tubing connected to brass barb connectors which are threaded into the sides of the shelf supports. This way, since the coolmist in within the greenhouse, I am certain that there is a continual supply of fresh air. I also have slits in the plastic cover in multiple locations.

I'm still a bit concerned that the surface of the trays has some areas that are more translucent than others. Everything is white, but in the thinner areas of colonization, I can see the brown color of the coir telegraphing through. Is this normal?

Thanks for the feedback.











--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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Re: UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Will Go [Re: conoshoto]
    #12536467 - 05/10/10 11:25 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

conoshoto said:
The best location for the Vicks is on the bottom and putting some perlite in the bottom tray to catch moisture helps put it back into the air. You can use the ultrasonic with it but the Vicks should be fine to hold the humidity. Just make sure you get plenty of fae along with keeping the humidity in the 90+ :thumbup:




Don't use perlite in the bottom of your GH. Its pointless, unless you are trying to boost RH. If you have cool mist and  or sonic humidifiers running you don't need perlite in the bottom. Wet perlite and all the stuff falling off of your subs going into it creates a nasty soup at the bottom of your GH. Contam city.

Its a pain in the ass to clean as well. Just use an empty under bed storage bin. Clean with bleachy water every 1.5 MOs.

You can kinda see the tun if you look at the bottom of the pick.

Also, you don't need to hack up your Mini-GH to pipe in FAE and raise RH. Get some zip ties and plumb through the zipper in the front to your humidifiers and bang.

I've mod'd my setup a bit more with a shop light and a few strategically places holes. Will post more pics if ya like. Hope this helped


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Re: UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Will Go [Re: KillaFoRilla]
    #12536473 - 05/10/10 11:27 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Pairshroom, is your GH in a shower?


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Shall Go [Re: pairshroom]
    #12536647 - 05/10/10 12:12 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

pairshroom said:
I'm still a bit concerned that the surface of the trays has some areas that are more translucent than others. Everything is white, but in the thinner areas of colonization, I can see the brown color of the coir telegraphing through. Is this normal?





Fairly normal. The surface of colonized coir varies depending on how moist it is and how much nutrient is close to the surface. Sometimes its completely white with dewdrops on top, sometimes you can still see the brown thru wispy mycelium.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Shall Go [Re: anonjon]
    #12536723 - 05/10/10 12:28 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I put tubs with perlite under my GH to catch drips and keep up humidity. I may or may not continue though..

Your stuff is all looking good, ready to go.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

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Re: UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Will Go [Re: KillaFoRilla]
    #12536745 - 05/10/10 12:34 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Nice setup, KillaFoRilla. No, it's not in a shower. It was in a whirpool tub in a guest bathroom, but the tub has never been used or even turned on. Also, the bottom of the greenhouse is sealed with 5 mil plastic sheeting and duct tape so it doesn't communicate with the tub. The tub was also thoroughly cleaned with Lysol. Despite all of this, the whole greenhouse was moved into the guest bedroom after a few hours, instead of the bathroom (where the pics were taken). It appears that we don't get many guests.


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

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Re: UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Will Go [Re: pairshroom]
    #12536912 - 05/10/10 01:17 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

:borat:
Very nice!


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Re: UPDATE #4: Trich contamination?? [Re: KillaFoRilla]
    #12541915 - 05/11/10 08:22 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

UPDATE #4: Trich contamination??


Well, I've been incubating in the greenhouse for a couple of days and I noticed today the bluish green hue over most of one tray (a couple other trays show a hint of bluish green in a few spots, too). I noticed that many of the trays seem a bit dry on top, so I've started to mist manually a bit more often.

Is this Trich or bruising?





--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

Edited by pairshroom (05/15/10 03:25 PM)

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: UPDATE #4: Trich contamination?? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12541923 - 05/11/10 08:26 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

It looks more like bruising from being too dry.

The easy way to tell mold spores from bruising, is that bruising will look just like a bruise on your own body.  It will be the color of the mycelium itself and will fade at the edges, just like when you bang your shin against a board.  Mold spores will be like a layer of green sand on the surface and will look more like a scab on your body where a wound is healing.
RR


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Re: UPDATE #4: Trich contamination?? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12542230 - 05/11/10 10:10 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks, RR. That was my original thought, too, but when I saw this tray progress so quickly over the past 12 hours (plus it was not as blue as I recall when seeing bruising on cakes), I became paranoid and isolated it (?sacrificed it) and took it outside. I cut in in half and sliced in horizontally, and see pretty healthy mycelia throughout with no signs of internal green/blue. It smells ok, too. The color does seem to be integral to the mycelia and not sitting on top and doesn't look "sandy" (plus, no transfer onto Q-tip, etc. - I know, bad test), so bruising it is (thankfully).

Oh, well, 1 tray gone - 4 still left. "Better safe than sorry" -- or is it "Live and learn!"?


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: UPDATE #4: Trich contamination?? [Re: pairshroom]
    #12542513 - 05/11/10 11:23 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

pairshroom said:
Oh, well, 1 tray gone - 4 still left. "Better safe than sorry" -- or is it "Live and learn!"?




"Throw away the baby with the bathwater" may be apt in this case.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

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Offlinewindex
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Re: UPDATE #4: Trich contamination?? [Re: anonjon]
    #12543104 - 05/11/10 01:35 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
Quote:

pairshroom said:
Oh, well, 1 tray gone - 4 still left. "Better safe than sorry" -- or is it "Live and learn!"?




"Throw away the baby with the bathwater" may be apt in this case.




or "Don't Panic!"

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: UPDATE #4: Trich contamination?? [Re: windex]
    #12544065 - 05/11/10 04:32 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I feel much better -- now that I had a shot of my single barrel Casa Noble anejo tequila. I knew that would do the trich (sic)!


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: pairshroom]
    #12567801 - 05/15/10 03:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins


Dear Shroom Diary (i.e., Shroomery):

It's now day #6 for my four remaining trays in the greenhouse, having sacrificed one a few days ago because of mistaking bruising for Trich. Because it was felt that the bluing was due to being too dry, I decided to add ultrasonic-based humidity to the coolmist impeller-based humidity I was using. I have noticed that the coolmist (Kaz model 4100 from CVS pharmacy) was circulating a lot of air, and I think that this was drying out the surface of my colonized substrate, causing the blue-green "bruising", despite having 98-100% humidity at all times. A bit counter-intuitive to me, since I thought that evaporation was favored in low-humidity conditions, not ones at near 100%. I guess the fan was carrying all of the tray surface moisture away. What's also unusual to me is that the water level in the coolmist drops VERY slowly, over several days, but it certainly dampens a paper towel if I hold it in front of the output for 30 seconds. I have no problems with pooling of water that others have described, though.

I modified the setup as follows:
(1) coolmist on bottom shelf; on for 5 mins - off for 10 mins (using Sentinel DRT-1 cycle timer, which is great)
(2) simultaneous with the coolmist (which is inside the greenhouse) is fresh air from two aquarium pumps at 10 L/min rate
(3) ultrasonic humidifier (SPT SU-4010) outside of greenhouse, but pumped in via 3/4 clear vinyl tubing; on for 4 mins - off for 11 mins (to coincide with on/off cycle of the coolmist)
(4) the coolmist is positioned such that it blows into the ultrasonic humidity stream, rapidly circulating it
(5) hand misting the surface of the trays (they are UNcased) 3-4 times per day, to keep them moist
(6) 6500K fluorescent lightbox illuminating the greenhouse from 6am-6pm daily (on timer)

I notice that all trays are now blue-green, despite all of this effort to keep the surface moist. Primordial knots began 2-3 days ago, primarily on the sides, where the "humidty gap" exists from the substrate pulling away from the rigid wall of the container. The container is clear, but is nested in an opaque one, lined with black plastic a la HippieChick's old tek. Now, side pinning is rampant, although I do have surface pins on 3 trays, with one still with no surface pinning. Parts of the surface of all trays appear matted, almost like pseudo-overlay, if that's possible.

I'm not sure what the best course of action is right now. I'm tempted to just stay on course, although I'm concerned about the side pins way down deep not having enough room for stipe growth, and getting squashed and aborting. I guess I could birth the trays, but I fear that I might actually lose more moisture from the entire colonized substrate. Perhaps I can dunk and case the tray after flush #1 is complete, ensuring casing in the side cracks to keep out light.

In any event, pics are fun to look at (IMO), so here's a visual update on my first bulk grow. Thanks to all who are babying me along with this hobby.









--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

Edited by pairshroom (05/15/10 04:19 PM)

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: pairshroom]
    #12574042 - 05/16/10 04:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I decided to "birth" the one tray with only side pins, and place it on verm/perlite in its inverted lid within the greenhouse.

Any thoughts?


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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Invisibleuncle_rico
my own worst enemy
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: pairshroom]
    #12574187 - 05/16/10 04:35 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I've done / and seen it done a number of times.

If your substrate has plenty of moisture, you can get good results.  If you are struggling with a substrate that is drying out, 'birthing' it will expose more of it to the FAE that is drying it.  The perlite/verm bed will help. 

I have done this after a good 1st flush and re-hydration of the substrate.

Good luck.


--------------------

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Offlineant61
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: pairshroom]
    #12574332 - 05/16/10 05:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: ant61]
    #12574416 - 05/16/10 05:12 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Has anyone seen an impeller-type coolmist humidifier cause such drying of colonized substrate? I can't believe it, given the greenhouse humidity of 98-100%. However, the water level lasts for days in the coolmist (box says up to 20 hours per filling), and I wonder if there is some issue with it.

This is the unit I have. I was going to get a replacement to see if it works differently.



--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: pairshroom]
    #12575089 - 05/16/10 07:18 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

you placed it on a bed of verm/perlite? I would not recommend that. Vermiculite is partially nutritive while perlite is not. I've heard of people saying that putting their cake directly on the perlite gave it more water because mycelial roots grew into the perlite and wicked the water into the cakes.

However if you put it like that for now it's probibly better off to leave it and worry about doing it differently next time.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: ScavengerType]
    #12575551 - 05/16/10 08:49 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I'm basically using this Tek a la HippieChick (https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6572755#6572755).

I was unaware that vermiculite was nutritive, aside from offering some needed minerals. I understand that it is a mineral of the silicate clay mica type, mined in various parts of the world, and that it has no organic components to serve as a biological fuel (although it holds moisture well, and can serve as a good substrate additive because of this property). I didn't think that fungi could actually digest it or grow on verm alone. Isn't that why BRF is an ingredient of cakes?

Thanks.


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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OfflineScavengerType
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Posts: 5,784
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: pairshroom]
    #12576690 - 05/17/10 12:17 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

well it's not a big thing but the worry is contaminants here. If you leave wet verm around it could get a chunk of something nutritive on it and feed a contaminant and whatnot. Like I said, don't worry bout it now, the likelihood of something going wrong is pretty slim, but it is something to consider in the future.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: pairshroom]
    #12577767 - 05/17/10 07:55 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

pairshroom said:
Has anyone seen an impeller-type coolmist humidifier cause such drying of colonized substrate? I can't believe it, given the greenhouse humidity of 98-100%. However, the water level lasts for days in the coolmist (box says up to 20 hours per filling), and I wonder if there is some issue with it.

This is the unit I have. I was going to get a replacement to see if it works differently.






I see your problem here. Those little impeller coolmists are great, but they don't last for that long without a refill. As soon as the water starts getting low, the output drops off dramatically.

Regarding verm, you're right, it has no calories, just valuable minerals. You still have to sterilize or pasteurize it tho, cuz it can contain contaminate bits of wood or leaf and fungal spores.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

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Offlinepairshroom
Jabberwocky
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: anonjon]
    #12577916 - 05/17/10 09:01 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the reply, anonjon.

I think I must have been a bit ambiguous about the coolmist. The issue isn't that the water level runs down too quickly, it's that it doesn't appear to run down quickly enough. The instuctions claim that the unit can run up to 20 hours on one fill. But my unit can last days and days (even with constant running) with only a slight, slow depletion of water from the reservoir. I don't know if this is expected behavior. I would think the water level would drop more quickly. I took the unit apart, and it seems that everything is intact.

If the water level isn't dropping as fast as it should, perhaps the unit is doing more drying (like a fan) than humidifying? I do have 99-100% humidity, though (using ultrasonic, too).

I have a new unit on order, in order to see if it has the same issue.

Thanks.


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: pairshroom]
    #12587597 - 05/18/10 05:53 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

it's possible if it is running uniformly at this slow speed that it is probibly a defective unit (likely something with the fan). Provided there is no intensity setting on the unit.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: ScavengerType]
    #12588468 - 05/18/10 08:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

There are no adjustments possible on this unit. Plugged in = ON; unplugged = OFF. No speed settings. Since I am keeping the unit in the greenhouse, I removed the filter, which improves output a bit. I think the filter was getting a bit saturated due to the high humidity in the greenhouse, which I think is part of the issue.

In any event, fruiting is occurring nicely. I just harvested the fruits from one of the trays whose veils were beginning to open (mainly just the side pins). Wet weight was 220 gm for about 1/3 of the shrooms in a 6 qt tray, which I think is decent. Man, do they ever bruise deep blue. No wonder the surface of my trays turned color due to some drying - these things turn blue just by looking at them too long!


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: pairshroom]
    #12588673 - 05/18/10 09:07 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yea I see the problem, it's not a filter. It's a porous fabric that wicks the water up from the unit. The fan then draws that moisture into the air as it expels it. When you took what you thought was the filter out you prevented the main method of getting moisture into the air. This is probibly why you were having moisture problems and why your unit doesn't seem to use water at a normal rate.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlinepairshroom
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Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: ScavengerType]
    #12588805 - 05/18/10 09:23 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Actually, this unit is an impeller-type unit, not a wicking-type. The filter for the impeller-type units serves only to prevent dust, hair, dirt, etc. from getting into the water reservoir.

Thanks.


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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Invisibleambargh
 User Gallery


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Posts: 3,433
Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: anonjon]
    #12588843 - 05/18/10 09:30 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Te f
Quote:

anonjon said:

I see your problem here. Those little impeller coolmists are great, but they don't last for that long without a refill. As soon as the water starts getting low, the output drops off dramatically.






I have to refill mine like every day it seems :crankey:


--------------------
"The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.." - Douglas Adams

ambargh's easy agar

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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: ambargh]
    #12590068 - 05/19/10 01:25 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Its probably because its only on for 5 minutes. Is it still pretty new? I'd run it for like 2-3 days nonstop full blast to get the bearings going. Probably outside of the greenhouse...


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

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Offlinepairshroom
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12594661 - 05/19/10 08:45 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

It's still very new (only about 10 days old). The first three days I ran the unit 24/7 with similar results - water level running down slowly. After three days, I still had over 1/2 the reservoir filled. I just got a second, identical unit and it behaves exactly the same way.

I must conclude that either (a) this is normal for this model (although instructions claim 20 hours), (b) I have two defective units (unlikely), (c) it has to do with running the unit inside of the greenhouse, perhaps due to high ambient humidity (doesn't make much sense to me for this impeller-based unit).

This weekend, I will try  running a unit outside of the greenhouse as a control to see if the behavior differs. I will post back my results.

P.S. Just finished first flush -- about 1400 gm for 4 6qt containers. Not sure what is average, but this seems amazing to me.


--------------------
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

— L. Carroll

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins [Re: pairshroom]
    #12594757 - 05/19/10 09:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I'd bet c. sorry for mistaking earlier.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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