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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#12479299 - 04/29/10 06:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I've been saying to layer for years.
Yea, but stamets has more Cred, besides whenever I've seen you do it you seldom mention the important issue to people of faster colonization. However, that last link of yours is interesting, it makes it seem that the layering may actually help the spawn recover and by double whammy (synergetic) effect put the bacteria right next to the spawn, which is much more likely to kill it and colonize without impediment. Interesting.
Frankly, I wish you mentioned that layering does things like ^above^ more often, it has cost me... some money. My foolishness about not heeding such advice in the past I mean.
That said, a 1:2 ratio is good if you think you smelled mild contams in the spawn.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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pairshroom
Jabberwocky



Registered: 01/01/10
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
#12494178 - 05/02/10 03:17 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected?
Disappointing news, I think.
This is day #7 after spawning to my coir:coffee_grounds:verm:gypsum substrate in five 6 quart trays (as discussed in detail in earlier posts above).
I was getting pretty fast colonization in all trays, that I was able to see by intermittently lifting the inner tray (clear) from the outer blackening one. I did not remove the foil until today (to inspect and take pics), which I did because colonization was slowing. I particularly noted that the bottoms of all five trays are rather slow to colonize (see pic).
To my surprise, I found what I suspect is cobweb mold on the surface of all five containers, particularly notable in the corners, which slope downwards a bit. The texture reminded me a bit of pussy willow buds. I have submitted some pics for feedback from folks smarter than I. I also noted that there were a few non-colonized areas on the surface of two or three trays, (presumably due to the contamination?).
Finally, not sure how significant this is, but I didn't smell the mushroom odor too well in the two trays that I sniffed. I blotted up some of this water from the surface using a clean paper towel, after which I was able to clearly smell the normal mushroom scent quite easily. Is this confirmation of an overlying contam?
I replaced the aluminum foil on the trays for now. Should I just toss these trays at this point or is it possible what I think is contamination is cottony mycelia?




-------------------- "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"
— L. Carroll
Edited by pairshroom (05/08/10 10:14 PM)
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dancefloordale
Research Assistant


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 2,522
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
#12494256 - 05/02/10 03:38 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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That's not cobweb, you have very strong rhizomorphic growth. Sometimes myc will form little puffs of growth, don't know why but I get them all them all the time.
I'm not sure why the bottom of that one tray looks the way it does. Could be wetter there and is taking the myc longer to colonize that area. How did you spawns? Mix/layer?
-------------------- Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.
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pairshroom
Jabberwocky



Registered: 01/01/10
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: dancefloordale]
#12494299 - 05/02/10 03:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I layered the spawn and substrate.
Not sure if the photos depict it well enough or not, but there is what reminds me of a cocoon overlying parts of the surface, in addition to the more fluffy areas.
Guess I'll wait it out for a bit before tossing everything. I have the trays at about 75-78 degrees - maybe I'll move them to a cooler environment (68-70) for now.
-------------------- "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"
— L. Carroll
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dancefloordale
Research Assistant


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 2,522
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
#12494354 - 05/02/10 04:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think you're good. No funky smells or anything?
Please don't throw those out, I'd hate to see them go to waste.
-------------------- Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.
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Spongiform
Some Cow


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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
#12494358 - 05/02/10 04:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I see no contams there. The growth on top is normal.
If you had cobweb, it would be several inches thick across the entire top of your tray by now.
Here's some examples:


The top picture worries me a bit though. Looks like there's a huge space to colonize there and might take awhile.
-------------------- Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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dancefloordale
Research Assistant


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 2,522
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: Spongiform]
#12494380 - 05/02/10 04:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spongiform said: The top picture worries me a bit though. Looks like there's a huge space to colonize there and might take awhile.
Yeah, I agree. But I do see it breaking through in some places so it may not take too much longer.
-------------------- Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.
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pairshroom
Jabberwocky



Registered: 01/01/10
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: dancefloordale]
#12494448 - 05/02/10 04:18 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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All of the bottoms are taking long to colonize. However, I wonder how many people are using clear trays and are able to detect how colonized the substrate at the bottom really is, unless they "birth" the tray and flip it. Is it possible that the bottom isn't colonizing as fast due to trapped CO2 and/or dependent moisture/condensation? I see no pooling of water, though.
I was able to push on the bottom of the tray, transiently lifting the entire substrate by a 1/2" or so, in hopes of displacing some of the CO2 out, and perhaps facilitating completion of the colonization. I have read of some folks using PF TEK flipping their jars to accomplish something analogous to this, so I thought I'd give it a shot.
No funky smells noted. But, as I mentioned, no mushroomy smell until I blotted the surface a bit with a clean paper towel. Is this typical?
I'd hate to lose everything at this point, particularly since I was incredibly clean and meticulous during the entire process, including sterile gown, gloves, mask, hat, clean work area, disinfecting, flame sterilization of needles, etc. - you name it.
-------------------- "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"
— L. Carroll
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dancefloordale
Research Assistant


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 2,522
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
#12495621 - 05/02/10 08:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
pairshroom said: All of the bottoms are taking long to colonize. However, I wonder how many people are using clear trays and are able to detect how colonized the substrate at the bottom really is, unless they "birth" the tray and flip it. Is it possible that the bottom isn't colonizing as fast due to trapped CO2 and/or dependent moisture/condensation? I see no pooling of water, though.
I was able to push on the bottom of the tray, transiently lifting the entire substrate by a 1/2" or so, in hopes of displacing some of the CO2 out, and perhaps facilitating completion of the colonization. I have read of some folks using PF TEK flipping their jars to accomplish something analogous to this, so I thought I'd give it a shot.
No funky smells noted. But, as I mentioned, no mushroomy smell until I blotted the surface a bit with a clean paper towel. Is this typical?
I'd hate to lose everything at this point, particularly since I was incredibly clean and meticulous during the entire process, including sterile gown, gloves, mask, hat, clean work area, disinfecting, flame sterilization of needles, etc. - you name it.
How deep are your substrates? I don't normally have this problem. I have lined a couple monos with saran wrap so I can monitor the colonization process and none performed like this, even with a 4" depth. I suspect the moisture content is slightly higher there where some of it seeped to the bottom, or the bottom layer of substrate was just thicker in that area and is taking longer to colonize. I see multiple areas where the myc is breaking through so I wouldn't concern myself with it enough to take action.
They look really healthy, just give them some more time.
-------------------- Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.
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punkrocker292004
i am a liar



Registered: 12/17/09
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: dancefloordale]
#12495666 - 05/02/10 08:21 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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flip it bro its like a big cake
-------------------- EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW
on a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero-tyler durden
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pairshroom
Jabberwocky



Registered: 01/01/10
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: dancefloordale]
#12495688 - 05/02/10 08:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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The substrate is about 4" deep. I layered substrate and spawn as follows: 1 quart substrate (bottom):1 quart spawn:1 quart substrate:1 quart spawn:1 quart substrate.
If I were to do it again, I might use more, but thinner, layers, so I could get some spawn closer to the bottom and to the top, allowing these areas to colonize faster. The way I did it, I had pretty thick layers of spawn and substrate, since it is only a 6 quart container.
-------------------- "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"
— L. Carroll
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dancefloordale
Research Assistant


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 2,522
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
#12495727 - 05/02/10 08:33 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I prefer the bottom and top layers to be thicker, that way when they are done colonizing you are 100% sure the middle is colonized too.
Flip it if you want, probably won't harm anything, but I would not if it were my tub just in case.
I thought the tubs were much bigger, but we are talking a shoebox container size so it really isnt that big of a space to colonize after all. My vote is don't touch it but do what you feel is necessary.
-------------------- Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.
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Gordy
livin' the dream



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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: dancefloordale]
#12495866 - 05/02/10 09:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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hm, kind of odd so many prefer layering over mixing. i've done it both ways on numerous occasions side by side and the ones i mix always end up colonizing faster than the layered ones, i just recently stopped layering altogether. the slowest part for me, when layering, was the top layer 90% of the time. it would eat up through it pretty fast but it was always a day or two longer waiting for those last spots on top to finish.
don't get me wrong tho, i'm not knocking layering. im one out of thousands of people who do this, so what happens when i grow is not necessarily going to happen the same way with everybody else, which is important to keep in mind. for example, just because a shotgun fc works great for one guy over in oregon doesnt mean that its going to work the same exact way for somebody living up in minnesota. taking measurments and tweaking it until you've got everything in optimal conditions is usually what it comes down to. so if layering leads to faster colonization times, by all means layer layer layer. if mixing goes faster, then mix mix mix.
i'm no professional tho, and don't claim to be. just my observations and my
--------------------
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Spongiform
Some Cow


Registered: 08/22/07
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: Gordy]
#12496241 - 05/02/10 10:18 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've tried hand mixing and mixing with an electric hand held mixer. Didn't have very good results with by hand but worked well with an electric mixer.
Burns them out pretty quick too though, whenever I get my place de-conned and give monotubs a try again I'll probably get a stir-bit for my drill and use that.
Something like this:
-------------------- Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf


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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: Spongiform]
#12496812 - 05/03/10 12:07 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I mix, it all colonizes evenly, including the bottom. I do flip out a few trays each batch. Im not a fan of layering.
Those pics look great, just be patient.
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pairshroom
Jabberwocky



Registered: 01/01/10
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: scatmanrav]
#12497486 - 05/03/10 04:29 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I should mention that the top mycelial layer is kinda thin, such that if I were to scratch about 1/8" to 1/4" deep, I would be into the coir substrate. Is this normal for this stage (7 days)? If so, how long for this whole tray to turn into a solid "cake"?
-------------------- "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"
— L. Carroll
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: pairshroom]
#12497628 - 05/03/10 06:09 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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often you would have seen full colonization by now. but don't sweat it. I bet you're on track to give it fruiting conditions by day 10. Day 10 seems to be the magic number for cubes in my experience.
The surface of the coir can look differently, depending on moisture level. If it's still very moist, you can get a thick colonization on top, or if it's a little dry, it can look kinda thin and wispy. It's nothing to worry about.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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dancefloordale
Research Assistant


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 2,522
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: Gordy]
#12498276 - 05/03/10 10:41 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gordy said: hm, kind of odd so many prefer layering over mixing. i've done it both ways on numerous occasions side by side and the ones i mix always end up colonizing faster than the layered ones, i just recently stopped layering altogether. the slowest part for me, when layering, was the top layer 90% of the time. it would eat up through it pretty fast but it was always a day or two longer waiting for those last spots on top to finish.
don't get me wrong tho, i'm not knocking layering. im one out of thousands of people who do this, so what happens when i grow is not necessarily going to happen the same way with everybody else, which is important to keep in mind. for example, just because a shotgun fc works great for one guy over in oregon doesnt mean that its going to work the same exact way for somebody living up in minnesota. taking measurments and tweaking it until you've got everything in optimal conditions is usually what it comes down to. so if layering leads to faster colonization times, by all means layer layer layer. if mixing goes faster, then mix mix mix.
i'm no professional tho, and don't claim to be. just my observations and my 
I layer and mix, depending on my mood. Mixing is much easier and quicker to do. Layering takes a little more time to do, but the main advantage in my opinion is when dunking, it helps to hold the substrate together much better. I haven't really noticed a time difference for the colonization period due to the spawning method, differences are usually related to moisture content.
Edit- I never measure anything out anymore, I just eye out the water lvl in the pot, eye out the amt of coir I break off the large blocks, eye out the verm, eye out the gypsum. So this is why my moisture content always slightly varies.
-------------------- Everything posted by the user dancefloordale, aside from what is written in this here clause is completely and utterly fictitious, despite any information read (or seen), above (or below) that might lead you to believe otherwise.
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Edited by dancefloordale (05/03/10 10:49 AM)
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skullhuman
the skullman cometh



Registered: 06/15/09
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Re: UPDATE #2 (with PICS): Cobweb tray contamination suspected? [Re: dancefloordale]
#12498839 - 05/03/10 12:34 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have personally noticed slower growth when just about anything is mixed. It seems the myc is more aggressive as a big net than as smaller colonies spread throughout a substrate.
Edited by skullhuman (05/04/10 06:16 PM)
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pairshroom
Jabberwocky



Registered: 01/01/10
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Re: UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Shall Go [Re: pairshroom]
#12529077 - 05/08/10 09:28 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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UPDATE #3: Trays 100% Colonized - A Fuiting We Shall Go
Well, after 11 days post spawning, it looks like my 5 six quart trays are fully colonized, though some areas are more densely white with mycelia, and some are a bit more translucent white, with a hint of the brown coir substrate just beneath.
I have set up a 3 tier portable greenhouse. I have two high volume aquarium air pumps running continually, pumping air at a total volume of 18 L/min through eight 1/4" hoses which penetrate into the greenhouse in well-spaced locations on each side, and had a few questions:
(1) Do I need to case, or can I just place in the greenhouse?
(2) I cut 6" slits in several areas on all sides and the top. I was planning to run my ultrasonic humidifier (SPT SU-4010) with a repeat cycle timer, 3-4 mins on and 15-20 mins off. In some dry runs I tried, this keeps the humidity up about 90-95%. Is this an acceptable cycle?
(3) Is a Vicks V400 cool mist a better choice than my ultrasonic?
(4) What is the best location for the humidifier (assuming it's inside of the greenhouse) - top shelf, middle shelf, or bottom shelf?
(5) Do I need to seal up the bottom of this bottomless greenhouse? I have it on a new, Lysolized washing machine tray, with some piping to carry off accumulating dripping condensate.
(6) Should I put wax paper on top of the trays or keep them exposed?
(7) How long for pinning (typically)?
Thanks. I will be posting pics of everything as soon as I can.
Edited by pairshroom (05/08/10 10:37 PM)
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