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pairshroom
Jabberwocky



Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 57
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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UPDATE #5 (more PICS): The Saga Continues: Blue Trays & Side Pins
#12454861 - 04/25/10 04:40 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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My first bulk grow:
I have been allowing 10 quart jars of organic rye berries colonize, prepared according to RR's DVD technique, with meticulous technique at all phases. They were inoculated with spore syringes from SporeWorks (used two different syringes - one each for 5 jars). I had mycelium appearing at day 4, shake using tire at 25% colonization at day 9, and shaking today at day 16 to spawn to coir:coffeegrains:verm:gypsum pasturized substrate.
The jars looked quite healthy and were never opened until today. They were completely white without any excess moisture or slime, and broke up with about 5 or 6 blows on a tire. When I opened the jars, all 10 of them have the same odor of a faint mushroom smell with a superimposed faint fruity odor - not noxious or disgusting, but still raising some concern to this neophyte.
When spawning to the substrate, no suspicious areas noted (i.e., no funny colors and no slimy or other unexpected appearance). A few small chunks of rye grains held together by mycelia were noted, but I saw this on RR's video, too, and I think they were just some chunks that I didn't fully break up with jar shaking. Using sterile gloved hands, I was able to easily break these up.
I used a 1:2 spawn:substrate ratio, about 3 1/2 inches deep in a 6 quart clear shoebox-sized Sterilite container, covered with aluminum foil. I have 5 such containers (two jars of spawn per container).
I guess I'll just see how they develop and hope they colonize. Thinking back on my technique, I don't see how I could have done anything cleaner.
Any feedback from the forum would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Edited by pairshroom (05/15/10 03:22 PM)
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electrics
wave rider


Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 1,609
Loc: In front of my Computer
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
#12454898 - 04/25/10 04:47 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think you will be fine..you're fruity smell is most likely from the rye berries.I've never used rye but with WBS it's always a mix of that shroomy smell and bird seed!! Good Luck but I think they will be ..E
-------------------- "Listen now I'm talking I've been here for weeks, waiting in this growing crowd staring at my feet, The world around me is Turning I'm just standing still, The time has come for changes do something or I will" Phish
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pairshroom
Jabberwocky



Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 57
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: electrics]
#12454954 - 04/25/10 05:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks for the reassurance.
Not sure how significant this additional info is, but I noted that after first setting up the jars, I could definitely smell the rye berry odor (same odor as when preparing the rye berries) through the filter. After the jars began to colonize, the odor became less and less, until I really couldn't smell it once colonization was complete. Presumably, this is because all of the rye berries were covered in mycelia.
You might be right about the odor, which I only smelled after opening the jars. They were already shaken up at that point, exposing the rye berries again. Unfortunately, I didn't open the jars to smell them before breaking up the mycelial mass as a control. I did not, however, smell this odor through the filter before opening the jars, so presumably it IS a consequence of exposing the rye berries from shaking.
Thanks.
-------------------- "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"
— L. Carroll
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
#12455159 - 04/25/10 05:39 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I read in Mycelium running that layering the spawn together leads to better colonization than mixing it. I have not tried it yet, but it's Paul fucking Stamets, he must be right. If you were mixing your spawn you may notice that layering it will lead to better and faster colonization IHO.
Though the smell could be rye it also could be a contam. Wait and see is your only approach. If it is a contaminant the myc may best it, but it also may re-surge particularly in later flushes.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
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pairshroom
Jabberwocky



Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 57
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: ScavengerType]
#12455187 - 04/25/10 05:47 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I did layer spawn and substrate. Basically one jar of substrate, followed by a jar of spawn, followed by a jar of substrate, another jar of spawn, and covered with a jar of substrate, with slight agitation of the container back and forth after each jar. Basically, the same way that RR does it in his video.
Thanks.
-------------------- "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"
— L. Carroll
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
#12455265 - 04/25/10 06:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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probibly the smell of the rye then, but if contaminants ensue update this thread.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
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pairshroom
Jabberwocky



Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 57
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: ScavengerType]
#12455284 - 04/25/10 06:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I guess what I was hoping to find was someone who has experienced this same phenomenon, preferably with a happy ending.
Either way, I will update this thread with my results in a week or two. Which raises another question - how long should colonization of the substrate take, given the setup I described above?
Thanks.
-------------------- "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"
— L. Carroll
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pairshroom
Jabberwocky



Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 57
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
#12458106 - 04/26/10 04:46 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Anyone else have any thoughts about this?
Thanks.
-------------------- "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"
— L. Carroll
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andymc
cocoa beetles from zanzibar



Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2,395
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
#12458247 - 04/26/10 06:11 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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The fruity smell is quite possibly unwanted bacteria. Rye doesn't smell fruity and neither does mycelium.
The happy ending could be that you spawn it anyway, and the mycelium wins. Happened to me.
-------------------- How I make spore prints
Trade List
My flow hood
If he asks me "Did you have a good time?" I'll say,
"Get the lights, Mr. Grim Reaper" -odds
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electrics
wave rider


Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 1,609
Loc: In front of my Computer
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: andymc]
#12459522 - 04/26/10 12:41 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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The important thing is that the smell was not overpowering you are bound to wind up with some sort of Bactria's present in you're substrate regardless..sometimes you even want them present to induce fruiting..however when trying to stretch a tub to it's 4th. or 5th. flush the Bactria's always seem to win at least in my case!! However I use nothing but pasteurized hpoo and coir nothing else no gypsum no coffee grinds..that's just my way!! I also don't cultivate for sale it's purely a hobby and to my friends the spoils..as far as time I would say keep it in a dark place for 10-12 days take a peak see where you are at..you may need a couple more days or it may be ready..I also never use a casing layer so am no help on that topic..Hope all goes well ..E
-------------------- "Listen now I'm talking I've been here for weeks, waiting in this growing crowd staring at my feet, The world around me is Turning I'm just standing still, The time has come for changes do something or I will" Phish
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pairshroom
Jabberwocky



Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 57
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: electrics]
#12468705 - 04/27/10 09:53 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ?
Well, I spawned to substrate 48 hours ago (as described above), and am using a tray-in-tray technique, with the outer tray lined in dark plastic, and the inner tray covered in aluminum foil. Since the trays are clear, this allows me to peek through the side of the inner tray, by temporarily lifting it out of the light-blackening outer one. I have 5 trays total, using a 1:2 spawn:substrate ratio (2 quarts spawn:4 quarts of coir:verm gypsum).
Conditions: ambient room temp 70-75 deg F; ambient humidity 45-50%
It looks like the mycelium is rebounding from the shaking and re-colonizing the grain and starting to colonize the substrate. I assume this is an encouraging sign, given the slight mushroomy + fruity scent I described above.
I am a bit concerned about the moderate condensation forming on the inner walls so early on, though. The substrate moisture content was right on target with respect to field capacity (per RR's DVD), and there shouldn't be that much temperature differential from inside to outside yet with the amount of mycelia present (or should there be?).
Thoughts? Suggestions?
Thanks.




Edited by pairshroom (05/08/10 10:14 PM)
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Spongiform
Some Cow


Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 3,994
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
#12468760 - 04/27/10 10:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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As the mycelium grows and colonizes it can product quite a bit of heat which will cause the condensation.
Try sliding a thermometer probe in near there and see the difference.
I've recorded up to a 12 or 13f difference in temperature with a 6 quart bag of substrate.


Room temperature was 70f.
-------------------- Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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pairshroom
Jabberwocky



Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 57
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: Spongiform]
#12472426 - 04/28/10 03:54 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm not nearly fully colonized yet, though (only day 3 in substrate), so I wonder if there could be enough heat from the scant mycelia at this point to result in condensation. I had this condensation by 12-24 hours. My substrate was about 80 degrees when I emptied the jars into the trays and spawned. Could this be the reason?
Not much I can do now, I guess. Just hope it doesn't get any wetter in there.
-------------------- "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"
— L. Carroll
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
#12472520 - 04/28/10 04:20 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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looks normal and very healthy. your future looks bright.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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Spongiform
Some Cow


Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 3,994
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: anonjon]
#12472610 - 04/28/10 04:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Not much I can do now, I guess. Just hope it doesn't get any wetter in there.
It's not getting any wetter, more of a re-distribution of the current moisture. It'll usually condense on the sides then eventually bead up and run down and back into the substrate.
-------------------- Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
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Loc: Seattle
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: ScavengerType]
#12472885 - 04/28/10 05:31 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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A bit of condensation is normal. It's warmer inside the jar than outside, and that causes condensation. Since your jars broke up so easily on a tire, I'd say you're OK. When bacteria rears it's ugly head, the mycelium is very hard and sometimes impossible to break up that way.
Quote:
ScavengerType said: I read in Mycelium running that layering the spawn together leads to better colonization than mixing it. I have not tried it yet, but it's Paul fucking Stamets, he must be right. If you were mixing your spawn you may notice that layering it will lead to better and faster colonization IHO.
I've been saying to layer for years. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7599746#7599746 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10310429#10310429 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11520730#11520730 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6895749#6895749 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10794510#10794510 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5113469#5113469 RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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skullhuman
the skullman cometh



Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 1,473
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#12473961 - 04/28/10 08:56 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: When bacteria rears it's ugly head, the mycelium is very hard and sometimes impossible to break up that way.
huh! Not to thread jack, but I've had some jars that I couldn't completely break up for the life of me. I didn't notice any signs of bacterial contam, but I also had no idea this was one of them. If myc is very tough like this, is it always a sign of contamination? Or might it also just be the way certain myc is?
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Spongiform
Some Cow


Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 3,994
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: skullhuman]
#12473995 - 04/28/10 09:05 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
huh! Not to thread jack, but I've had some jars that I couldn't completely break up for the life of me. I didn't notice any signs of bacterial contam, but I also had no idea this was one of them. If myc is very tough like this, is it always a sign of contamination? Or might it also just be the way certain myc is?
Sometimes I get clumps of what appears to be an oily congealed mass in my jars that just won't break up by shaking. I just let it colonize around that and use it anyway.
-------------------- Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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skullhuman
the skullman cometh



Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 1,473
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Re: Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: Spongiform]
#12474194 - 04/28/10 09:49 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, here's the deal - I have a print that always seems to yield tough myc, although I've never noticed any bacterial contams and it has spawned fine. I wonder if the print is in fact contaminated, or if the toughness is just a trait of this myc.
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uncle_rico
my own worst enemy


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 2,664
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Re: UPDATE (with pics): Rye jars with mushroom smell + faint fruity smell ? [Re: pairshroom]
#12474330 - 04/28/10 10:15 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Condensation during the colonization of your bulk substrate is good. Growing mycelium creates heat.
At day one, the mycelium is recovering and is not generating much heat / condensation. By day three, the mycelium is starting to tear through the bulk substrate. I can feel the heat through the tub bottom and my monotub window has so much condensation it is difficult to see through.
You will also get condensation as your fruit bodies grow.
Good luck.
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