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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Posts: 5,646
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AZ passes racist immigration law...
    #12446790 - 04/24/10 12:24 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

while i strongly agree that federal immigration laws need to be enforced OT1H..this is the wrong way to do it...

the new law is aimed only at those illegal immigrants that can be racially profiled.. whereas an illegal immigrant from (for example) sweden is not affected by the new law..since they cannot be racially profiled...

the flip side is that non-white american citizens..such as the one quoted below..are summarily presumed to be illegals under the new law.. and will be subject to unnecessary increased police harassment as such...

yes..ppl must be required to produce papers when applying for american jobs and/or american social services.. but never because of the colour of their skin...

no doubt polls will show overwhelming public support for the AZ statute in all parts of the country...but all that means is that we are reverting to being an overtly racist society.. with AZ having passed what is by far the most racist legislation since the japanese internment...

that having been said.. FUCK ARIZONA...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100423/ap_on_re_us/us_immigration_enforcement

Quote:

"It's going to change our lives," said Emilio Almodovar, a 13-year-old American citizen from Phoenix. "We can't walk to school any more. We can't be in the streets anymore without the pigs thinking we're illegal immigrants."

The Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund said it plans a legal challenge to the law, arguing it "launches Arizona into a spiral of pervasive fear, community distrust, increased crime and costly litigation, with nationwide repercussions."




--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineJT
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12446855 - 04/24/10 12:41 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

yeah...i think you nailed it. pretty lame.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12446927 - 04/24/10 12:58 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

the law isnt racist, it's about about stopping the invasion, the illegals
are rioting, they've made threats for weeks, fuck them, I say dont deport
them, execute them so they dont invade texas when they cross back over the
border illegally


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12446989 - 04/24/10 01:11 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
while i strongly agree that federal immigration laws need to be enforced OT1H..this is the wrong way to do it...

the new law is aimed only at those illegal immigrants that can be racially profiled.. whereas an illegal immigrant from (for example) sweden is not affected by the new law..since they cannot be racially profiled...

the flip side is that non-white american citizens..such as the one quoted below..are summarily presumed to be illegals under the new law.. and will be subject to unnecessary increased police harassment as such...

yes..ppl must be required to produce papers when applying for american jobs and/or american social services.. but never because of the colour of their skin...

no doubt polls will show overwhelming public support for the AZ statute in all parts of the country...but all that means is that we are reverting to being an overtly racist society.. with AZ having passed what is by far the most racist legislation since the japanese internment...

that having been said.. FUCK ARIZONA...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100423/ap_on_re_us/us_immigration_enforcement

Quote:

"It's going to change our lives," said Emilio Almodovar, a 13-year-old American citizen from Phoenix. "We can't walk to school any more. We can't be in the streets anymore without the pigs thinking we're illegal immigrants."

The Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund said it plans a legal challenge to the law, arguing it "launches Arizona into a spiral of pervasive fear, community distrust, increased crime and costly litigation, with nationwide repercussions."








so what you're saying is that blacks and asians will be harassed as illegals?

I guess since we put a racist in the whitehouse america has always been
overtly racist, just ask the liberal congress, everyone that doesnt suck
a black cock is already a racist


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InvisibleTherian
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12447161 - 04/24/10 01:38 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

the new law is aimed only at those illegal immigrants that can be racially profiled.. whereas an illegal immigrant from (for example) Sweden is not affected by the new law..since they cannot be racially profiled...



That's total bullshit. The law states that the individuals must carry identification and perhaps some kind of paperwork concerning their status. Did you know it is illegal for an American citizen not to carry identification? Yeah there are tons of Swedes bringing drugs into this country, killing our citizens, terrorizing our neighborhoods, parasitizing our social system, congesting our schools with their fat, rat like, beady eyed, worthless vermin, which they have no problems creating in countless numbers.

Don't forget they are here ILLEGALLY! They have broken the laws of our country, and continue to do so every minute of every hour of every day that they are here. Its freaking amazing that when law enforcement actually has to do..you know, their job, they are considered racists. Why should I have to let my neighborhood be taken over by illegals? Why should I have to pay for the food, education, housing and health care of some greasy assed Mexican that has come to this country illegally? Why should the citizens of this country, those that have actually paid taxes have to go without so individuals that have decided to make a mockery of our laws can receive benefits?

Prior to this the law enforcement told its citizens to arm themselves. Yes, that is the best they can do to protect our citizens from the Latino criminal element, tell the citizens to arm themselves. What a freaking joke. And we are supposed to feel sorry for the assholes that come here illegally? Tell that to the victims of violent crime at the hands of these illegals.

Quote:

Emilio Almodovar, a 13-year-old American citizen from Phoenix. "We can't walk to school any more. We can't be in the streets anymore without the pigs thinking we're illegal immigrants."




Perfect example, sounds like Emilio is going to grow up to be a model citizen. I am going to pray now, pray that an illegal kills him and his family dead in the streets.


Quote:

with AZ having passed what is by far the most racist legislation since the Japanese internment...




Actually the Germans were treated far worse than were the Japs, they were imprisoned, deported from other countries (such as in Latin America) specifically to be jailed here. This happened during both WWI and II. It doesn't count though as they were Caucasian, and as we all know pain is only felt by non whites. It doesn't make a compelling story if they are included, if they were you couldn't just cry racism all the time.

Its no wonder Obama is against this. I believe we are all paying for his law breaking, social services, free housing, and health care receiving, welfare living, Negress whore of an aunt.


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OfflineMind Transcribing
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Registered: 11/09/09
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Therian]
    #12447839 - 04/24/10 06:10 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

That's some deep rooted racial hate right 'thar :lmafo:


--------------------


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OfflineFreakdaddy
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12447859 - 04/24/10 06:24 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
the law isnt racist, it's about about stopping the invasion, the illegals
are rioting, they've made threats for weeks, fuck them, I say dont deport
them, execute them so they dont invade texas when they cross back over the
border illegally




:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12448034 - 04/24/10 08:22 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
while i strongly agree that federal immigration laws need to be enforced OT1H..this is the wrong way to do it...

the new law is aimed only at those illegal immigrants that can be racially profiled.. whereas an illegal immigrant from (for example) sweden is not affected by the new law..since they cannot be racially profiled...

the flip side is that non-white american citizens..such as the one quoted below..are summarily presumed to be illegals under the new law.. and will be subject to unnecessary increased police harassment as such...

yes..ppl must be required to produce papers when applying for american jobs and/or american social services.. but never because of the colour of their skin...

no doubt polls will show overwhelming public support for the AZ statute in all parts of the country...but all that means is that we are reverting to being an overtly racist society.. with AZ having passed what is by far the most racist legislation since the japanese internment...

that having been said.. FUCK ARIZONA...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100423/ap_on_re_us/us_immigration_enforcement

Quote:

"It's going to change our lives," said Emilio Almodovar, a 13-year-old American citizen from Phoenix. "We can't walk to school any more. We can't be in the streets anymore without the pigs thinking we're illegal immigrants."

The Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund said it plans a legal challenge to the law, arguing it "launches Arizona into a spiral of pervasive fear, community distrust, increased crime and costly litigation, with nationwide repercussions."







There's nothing at all racist about being against illegals being allowed to remain in this country. I'd be willing to possibly change my mind on this law if you can point me to the section that deals with ethnicity.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineesp0791
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12448505 - 04/24/10 12:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
while i strongly agree that federal immigration laws need to be enforced OT1H..this is the wrong way to do it...

the new law is aimed only at those illegal immigrants that can be racially profiled.. whereas an illegal immigrant from (for example) sweden is not affected by the new law..since they cannot be racially profiled...










yea because the sweeds are taking our jobs and swarming to the US like fucking rats. Racial profiling is not racist if it is the truth. It is the dark skinned, mexicans, hispanics, whatever you want to call them. It is not racist, it is the truth, they are the ones who this is about, not the Sweeds. If you are illegal you are illegal, get the fuck out!


--------------------
Peace and Love:mushroom2:

                                                                                       


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Registered: 05/21/02
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: esp0791]
    #12448574 - 04/24/10 12:21 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

i doubt that any swedes would be stupid enough to want to live in a country infested with neo-nazi thugs...in any case..you still dont know how many swedes are here illegally...


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12448795 - 04/24/10 01:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

How about providing some excerpts from the bill itself that back up your claim that the bill allows racial profiling. Are we supposed to take you word for it. Assume your the kind of person that does his research, and not the kind that just listens to left leaning rhetoric.

NO we shouldn't


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


Edited by Simplicitry (04/24/10 01:42 PM)


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Offlineesp0791
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12448814 - 04/24/10 01:23 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
i doubt that any swedes would be stupid enough to want to live in a country infested with neo-nazi thugs...in any case..you still dont know how many swedes are here illegally...




I didn't say there were no Sweeds here illegally... I am sure there are, as well as a majority of other people from all over the world. But the problem IS the people who are protesting... dark skinned latinos...we don't really see any pale white blond haired blue eyed latinos do we now?


--------------------
Peace and Love:mushroom2:

                                                                                       


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OfflinegrimR
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12448854 - 04/24/10 01:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

sometimes we have to realize it is not "racism" when it makes sense. The majority are from mexico. Hence, hispanic.

I dont believe in targeting people based on their race but I do believe in keeping jobs available to americans. Its a tough call. How can it be fixed?


--------------------
- grimR


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://egolost.com 
"I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself."

- Don Juan teachings


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
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Registered: 05/23/09
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: grimR] * 1
    #12448926 - 04/24/10 01:47 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

As an American of Mexican desent I'm am very angry about the problems that illegal Mexicans cause for Americans of Mexican ethnicity.

Police should enforce immigration laws. Like there doing in Arizona now.

People should be allowed to sue complacent government agency for not enforcing immigration laws. Like the will be in Arizona now.

When a police officer pulls you over and asks for you licsense, that's not gestapo asking for your papers. That's a police officer asking you to provide a liscense for the vehicle your operating.

We need to find illegals, and deport them. I'm glad that at least part of our country is moving in that direction.

Way to go Arizona!


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12448939 - 04/24/10 01:49 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
How about providing some excerpts from the bill itself that back up your claim that the bill allows racial profiling. Are we supposed to take you word for it. Assume your the kind of person that does his research, and not the kind that just listens to left leaning rhetoric.

NO we shouldn't



I'm still waiting.

What's that you say.

There are no such excerpts.

Where the part about American Hispanics having to carry papers to walk around again?


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
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Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12448990 - 04/24/10 01:58 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Here's the text

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

What page? What section? Allows the racist procedures you were describing?


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: esp0791]
    #12449029 - 04/24/10 02:06 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

esp0791 said:
yea because the sweeds are taking our jobs and swarming to the US like fucking rats. Racial profiling is not racist if it is the truth. It is the dark skinned, mexicans, hispanics, whatever you want to call them. It is not racist, it is the truth, they are the ones who this is about, not the Sweeds. If you are illegal you are illegal, get the fuck out!



People of all different ethnicities are here illegally. We just happen to have a majority of Mexicans because we share a common border. We need to rid ourselves of all illegals. The white ones too. Ever been to Chicago. There are so many eastern European illegals, it's not even funny. Let's not be racist on our stance against illegal immigration


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12449032 - 04/24/10 02:07 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

If I believed this would be enforced fairly (or at all), I would be all for this.

Unfortunately, how can you tell illegal immigrants from legal immigrant, or individuals born here? How will a police officer know when to ask someone for their immigration card and, if they do ask for it and the person says they are a American-born citizen, whether or not they are telling the truth?


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12449038 - 04/24/10 02:07 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

An another point to made is, You should be more upset with your Government for not enforcing the law then you should be at the immigrants themselves


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm] * 2
    #12449050 - 04/24/10 02:09 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
If I believed this would be enforced fairly (or at all), I would be all for this.

Unfortunately, how can you tell illegal immigrants from legal immigrant, or individuals born here? How will a police officer know when to ask someone for their immigration card and, if they do ask for it and the person says they are a American-born citizen, whether or not they are telling the truth?




Where in the laws text does it say they're going to be going around asking for peoples papers. They check licsences during traffic stops. If you don't have on, or any identification, then they look into your status. Get it.


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12449062 - 04/24/10 02:12 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Of course it doesn't say that in the law. I never said it did. Are you thick? I spoke only of enforcement.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449111 - 04/24/10 02:18 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

The clause in question is:

Quote:

20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).




What will lead to this reasonable suspicion? It is arbitrary and seems like an enforcement nightmare.


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449121 - 04/24/10 02:19 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I never said it did. Are you thick? I spoke only of enforcement.




Quote:

Redstorm said:
How will a police officer know when to ask someone for their immigration card and, if they do ask for it and the person says they are a American-born citizen, whether or not they are telling the truth?




Are you thick?


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449144 - 04/24/10 02:22 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
The clause in question is:

Quote:

20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).




What will lead to this reasonable suspicion? It is arbitrary and seems like an enforcement nightmare.




Police officers ask American citizens of all different ethnicities for identification for different purposes all the time. If you can't provide identification that would be a reasonable suspicion. Get it?


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12449158 - 04/24/10 02:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Once again, I will spell it out for you. I'll even type it in caps if that helps your comprehension.

I NEVER SAID IT SAID THAT IN THE LAW. I ONLY SPOKE OF ENFORCEMENT. DE FACTO LAW AND DE JURE LAW ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12449169 - 04/24/10 02:26 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
The clause in question is:

Quote:

20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).




What will lead to this reasonable suspicion? It is arbitrary and seems like an enforcement nightmare.




Police officers ask American citizens of all different ethnicities for identification for different purposes all the time. If you can't provide identification that would be a reasonable suspicion. Get it?




Amazingly enough, immigrants can get driver's licenses too. How do they know who to ask for immigration papers?


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449362 - 04/24/10 03:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Once again, I will spell it out for you. I'll even type it in caps if that helps your comprehension.

I NEVER SAID IT SAID THAT IN THE LAW. I ONLY SPOKE OF ENFORCEMENT. DE FACTO LAW AND DE JURE LAW ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.




You said it right here! I quoted you below!

Quote:

Redstorm said:
If I believed this would be enforced fairly (or at all), I would be all for this.

Unfortunately, how can you tell illegal immigrants from legal immigrant, or individuals born here? How will a police officer know when to ask someone for their immigration card and, if they do ask for it and the person says they are a American-born citizen, whether or not they are telling the truth?




--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449372 - 04/24/10 03:03 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
The clause in question is:

Quote:

20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).




What will lead to this reasonable suspicion? It is arbitrary and seems like an enforcement nightmare.




Police officers ask American citizens of all different ethnicities for identification for different purposes all the time. If you can't provide identification that would be a reasonable suspicion. Get it?




Amazingly enough, immigrants can get driver's licenses too. How do they know who to ask for immigration papers?




Have a link to that law that gives illegal immigrants the right to a drivers license.

Oh!!! that's right you just like making unsubstantiated claims!!!:laugh2:


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12449424 - 04/24/10 03:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
i doubt that any swedes would be stupid enough to want to live in a country infested with neo-nazi thugs...in any case..you still dont know how many swedes are here illegally...




they already do, sweden has plenty of neo nazi twats running around,
there's more than 20 million illegals here from almost every nation, more
than 100k canadian illegals are among them, is it still racist when it
applies to anyone with an undocumented status?


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12449496 - 04/24/10 03:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Have a link to that law that gives illegal immigrants the right to a drivers license.

Oh!!! that's right you just like making unsubstantiated claims!!!:laugh2:




Quote:

As it stands, a hodgepodge of laws govern whether illegal immigrants can lawfully drive in the United States. Ten states (Hawaii, Illinois, Michigan, Montana, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oregon, Utah, Washington and Wisconsin) do not require license applicants to demonstrate that they are lawfully present in the United States, in effect granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. Most of those states do require applicants to present an identification card issued by their home country.





http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=15696

I'm not sure which of these states has changed their laws since this was written, though.

What this demonstrates is that it is on a state to state basis whether or not they ask for documentation of citizenship when requesting a license.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12449507 - 04/24/10 03:29 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
Once again, I will spell it out for you. I'll even type it in caps if that helps your comprehension.

I NEVER SAID IT SAID THAT IN THE LAW. I ONLY SPOKE OF ENFORCEMENT. DE FACTO LAW AND DE JURE LAW ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.




You said it right here! I quoted you below!

Quote:

Redstorm said:
If I believed this would be enforced fairly (or at all), I would be all for this.

Unfortunately, how can you tell illegal immigrants from legal immigrant, or individuals born here? How will a police officer know when to ask someone for their immigration card and, if they do ask for it and the person says they are a American-born citizen, whether or not they are telling the truth?







Are you fucking blind? Do you read the English language? Where do I say anything about the law that does not deal with enforcement? Just to make it easier for you, just go ahead and bold the part where I did that.

It should be easy as pie if you knew what the fuck you were talking about.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12449511 - 04/24/10 03:30 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Oh shit, Zappa's getting deported?

:nonono:



~Monk


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449618 - 04/24/10 03:51 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:


Have a link to that law that gives illegal immigrants the right to a drivers license.

Oh!!! that's right you just like making unsubstantiated claims!!!:laugh2:




Quote:

As it stands, a hodgepodge of laws govern whether illegal immigrants can lawfully drive in the United States. Ten states (Hawaii, Illinois, Michigan, Montana, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oregon, Utah, Washington and Wisconsin) do not require license applicants to demonstrate that they are lawfully present in the United States, in effect granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. Most of those states do require applicants to present an identification card issued by their home country.





http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=15696

I'm not sure which of these states has changed their laws since this was written, though.

What this demonstrates is that it is on a state to state basis whether or not they ask for documentation of citizenship when requesting a license.



This is not a link to a laws text, so it doesn't substantiate what you said.


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449643 - 04/24/10 03:55 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:

Amazingly enough, immigrants can get driver's licenses too. How do they know who to ask for immigration papers?





immigrants have a green card as well, illegal aliens do not and are not
supposed to be issued drivers licenses since they have no social security
number or INS number


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12450385 - 04/24/10 07:05 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

what happens if you're a latino US citizen, and you are stopped walking down the street and don't have your driver's license on you. do they cuff you and bring you down to the station to verify that you're a citizen?


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: JT]
    #12450478 - 04/24/10 07:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
what happens if you're a latino US citizen, and you are stopped walking down the street and don't have your driver's license on you. do they cuff you and bring you down to the station to verify that you're a citizen?



That would be against the law for a police officer to do that.

First, what the United States Supreme Court said. What the United States Supreme Court held in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, was that a state could make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself (i.e., tell the officer his name and address) when lawfully detained for criminal activity. Note that the Supreme Court did NOT say that any kind of identification papers could be required, nor did they say that police officers could ordinarily arrest someone for refusing to identify himself absent a state law permitting that arrest. There is no law in the United States requiring everybody to carry ID, at least not yet.

You have to be commiting a criminal activity or operating a motor vehicle to be required by law to show your identification.

So no

This applies to whites, asians, blacks and hispanics alike


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12450797 - 04/24/10 08:36 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

sure, they don't have to carry identification...just proof that they are citizens. big difference, right?

and let's cut the shit...we know that in arizona, the target is illegal mexican immigrants. even though the law does not specifically mention them, it would be naive to say that they aren't going to be targeted more than whites.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: JT]
    #12450845 - 04/24/10 08:49 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
sure, they don't have to carry identification...just proof that they are citizens. big difference, right?





under existing laws immigrantrs are required to always keep in their possession their immigration residence  card, so what's actually changed?


Quote:

and let's cut the shit...we know that in arizona, the target is illegal mexican immigrants. even though the law does not specifically mention them, it would be naive to say that they aren't going to be targeted more than whites.





so guatamalans, equadorans, bolivians, etc... are all exempt from the laws?


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12450856 - 04/24/10 08:51 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
i doubt that any swedes would be stupid enough to want to live in a country infested with neo-nazi thugs...in any case..you still dont know how many swedes are here illegally...




they already do, sweden has plenty of neo nazi twats running around,
there's more than 20 million illegals here from almost every nation, more
than 100k canadian illegals are among them, is it still racist when it
applies to anyone with an undocumented status?




but the AZ statute doesnt apply to "anyone with an undocumented status".. it is specifically aimed at ppl who merely look like they might fall into that category...if a swedish illegal immigrant and a hispanic or asian US citizen are both walking down the street in phoenix.. then the innocent party is subject to police harassment under the new law.. while the guilty party slips by unnoticed...as such..one could argue that the new law violates the 14th amendment privileges and immunities clause...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12450899 - 04/24/10 09:02 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:under existing laws immigrantrs are required to always keep in their possession their immigration residence  card, so what's actually changed?




immigrants. not citizens. the citizens will be profiled along with the immigrants.


Quote:

so guatamalans, equadorans, bolivians, etc... are all exempt from the laws?




no...


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: JT]
    #12451081 - 04/24/10 10:00 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

i'd like to point out to people who bitching about this. 1) they broke a law aready. 2) they are taking construction jobs not just picking food or mowing grass. 3) poeple yelling about this better watch out cause they will over turn state right on weed too. Can't have it both ways. If you want state's rights can't bitch what another state does. So which is it states right or fed? Cause say fed on this one they will use this case over turn every mj law out there.


--------------------

"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assalent, "If I live I will kill you, if I die you are forgiven". Such is the Rule of Honor."


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: deadmeat986]
    #12451116 - 04/24/10 10:11 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
' With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

The concept of an illegal immigrant is unamerican. Immigration should be 100% legal. This was supposed to be a free country.


--------------------
And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've moved my desk ...four times already this year and I used to be over by the window and I could see the squirrels, and they were merry, but then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and its not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: deadmeat986]
    #12451123 - 04/24/10 10:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deadmeat986 said:
i'd like to point out to people who bitching about this. 1) they broke a law aready. 2) they are taking construction jobs not just picking food or mowing grass. 3) poeple yelling about this better watch out cause they will over turn state right on weed too. Can't have it both ways. If you want state's rights can't bitch what another state does. So which is it states right or fed? Cause say fed on this one they will use this case over turn every mj law out there.




apples & oranges...

first of all..read the text of the 10th amendment..below ..

Quote:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.




and the first paragraph of the 14th amendment ..

Quote:

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.




the "privileges and immunities" clause is constitutionally mandated.. and as such trumps state law...the AZ statute violates this clause because it would subject certain US citizens to police harassment...

the feds' case against marijuana..however..is more questionable..since marijuana is neither delegated to the feds nor prohibited to the states by the constitution.. although it has stood up nicely in the SCOTUS...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12451172 - 04/24/10 10:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

This so-called law targets nobody because it's illegal from the start.  Apparently the AZ politicos are not aware that 'illegal alien' status speaks of being in the country illegally, making it a federal matter, not state.  A state can no more regulate immigration than they can regulate the airspace over their state.  It's just grandstanding to make a point.
RR


--------------------
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: JT]
    #12451310 - 04/24/10 11:06 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:under existing laws immigrantrs are required to always keep in their possession their immigration residence  card, so what's actually changed?




immigrants. not citizens. the citizens will be profiled along with the immigrants.





illegal aliens, immigrants are documented, come through the system in a
legal fashion, illegal aliens jump the border and have no documentation


Quote:

Quote:

so guatamalans, equadorans, bolivians, etc... are all exempt from the laws?




no...





then why all this talk of targeting mexicans


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: shroommachine]
    #12451319 - 04/24/10 11:10 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shroommachine said:
Immigration should be 100% legal.





it is 100% legal when you go through the system to gain residency/citizenship or even worker status


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: JT]
    #12452614 - 04/25/10 09:27 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
sure, they don't have to carry identification...just proof that they are citizens. big difference, right?

and let's cut the shit...we know that in arizona, the target is illegal mexican immigrants. even though the law does not specifically mention them, it would be naive to say that they aren't going to be targeted more than whites.




Of coarse everyone knows that Mexicans are the ilegal aliens in Arizona. That still doesn't change the fact that there are laws that prevent them from forcing an American Mexican to show ID

what the United States Supreme Court said. What the United States Supreme Court held in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, was that a state could make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself (i.e., tell the officer his name and address) when lawfully detained for criminal activity. Note that the Supreme Court did NOT say that any kind of identification papers could be required. There is no law in the United States requiring everybody to carry ID, at least not yet.

You have to be commiting a criminal activity or operating a motor vehicle to be required by law to show your identification.

So no they can't shake down Mexicans based on the ethnicity.

This applies to whites, asians, blacks and hispanics alike

This is a little thing call fact that many people like to over look because when it contradicts there veiw point.

The Bill http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Where was the part about people being required to have ID on that all time
Where's the part about road stops checking peoples ID's
There not there. You apperantly just choose to ignore facts you don't like


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12452619 - 04/25/10 09:29 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
A state can no more regulate immigration than they can regulate the airspace over their state.
RR




Really. I think Arizona just did.


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12452922 - 04/25/10 11:53 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

P
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
i doubt that any swedes would be stupid enough to want to live in a country infested with neo-nazi thugs...in any case..you still dont know how many swedes are here illegally...




they already do, sweden has plenty of neo nazi twats running around,
there's more than 20 million illegals here from almost every nation, more
than 100k canadian illegals are among them, is it still racist when it
applies to anyone with an undocumented status?




but the AZ statute doesnt apply to "anyone with an undocumented status".. it is specifically aimed at ppl who merely look like they might fall into that category...if a swedish illegal immigrant and a hispanic or asian US citizen are both walking down the street in phoenix.. then the innocent party is subject to police harassment under the new law.. while the guilty party slips by unnoticed...as such..one could argue that the new law violates the 14th amendment privileges and immunities clause...



On what page and what line does it say anyone will have to show ID to walk down the street. Oh, that right, you don't like facts, because they work against your rhetoric


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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OfflineJT
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12452956 - 04/25/10 12:09 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

i haven't read the whole bill. i am only referring to several news sources that i've read.

i'll check out the bill later tonight when i have time and try to find it.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: JT]
    #12452980 - 04/25/10 12:19 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Here is the text of the bill as signed by the Gov.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.pdf




Phred


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: numonkei]
    #12454849 - 04/25/10 06:38 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

numonkei said:
Oh shit, Zappa's getting deported?

:nonono:





Passamaquoddy AND the Mayflower.  Pretty much all of you will go before me.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12454858 - 04/25/10 06:39 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Redstorm, it is ludicrous to cite potential for abuse as cause to refrain from passing any law.  They can all be abused.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12459096 - 04/26/10 01:09 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Violence broke out at a political demonstration over the weekend, as protesters chased police officers, pelting them with rocks and bottles. Was this a gang of Tea Partiers running amok, as eagerly awaited by so many liberals? Well, no. The demonstration was at the state capitol in Arizona, against that state's new immigration statute:






Title of this Youtube clip is "Mexicans Riot in Wake of Arizona Immigration Crackdown"

Quote:

Have you seen a lot of consternation in the press about this violent demonstration? No, neither have I. Maybe that's because reporters think the Arizona law is polarizing.




Source - "A Violent Demonstration"





Phred


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Phred]
    #12459147 - 04/26/10 01:22 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

No surprise that the media doesn't report this. It wouldn't mesh well with their "illegal immigrants are basically law abiding" mantra.

The cops should have shot anyone throwing items at them.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #12459353 - 04/26/10 02:12 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

illegal immigrants are basically law abiding" mantra.




How are fugitives law abiding? Illegal isn't a race, its a crime.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: FNFAL]
    #12460145 - 04/26/10 04:22 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

> How are fugitives law abiding? Illegal isn't a race, its a crime.

Once the illegal aliens are given amnesty, they will be law abiding legal immigrants.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Seuss]
    #12460468 - 04/26/10 05:27 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Once the illegal aliens are given amnesty, they will be law abiding legal immigrants.





you're such an optimist, I'm sure the bulk of them will still be criminals,
they'll just be criminals that were granted citizenship for nothing


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Invisiblemister
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #12461305 - 04/26/10 07:54 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
Once the illegal aliens are given amnesty, they will be law abiding legal immigrants.





you're such an optimist, I'm sure the bulk of them will still be criminals,
they'll just be criminals that were granted citizenship for nothing




Then we put them in our prisons and taxpayers get to take care of them.

This was something that has been long over due. Why do you think that the economy is in such shit shape. Because these companies are using the illegals to do the work, while they are on all the state benefits that they can get with whatever the ID that they are using can get them. All the time the American citizen that wants to work can't because of some illegals taking all the jobs. During this same time the illegals are pushing the drugs from their home country to make up the difference in income, while the citizens go to prison for possessing them. To which, all the revenue goes to either the native country or a store of their native culture, which in turn, the revenue still is sent back to the home country after stock is bought with no revenue coming back to the state that these illegals are getting benefits from. Why is this shit so hard for motherfuckers to figure out?


--------------------




:mushroomgrow::mushroomgrow::mushroomgrow::mushroomgrow:AMU Q & A thread:mushroomgrow::mushroomgrow::mushroomgrow::mushroomgrow:


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: mister]
    #12461426 - 04/26/10 08:18 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

many illegals have been growing in our national parks and using pesticides
that have been banned here for decades, they've expanded to meth and in the
atlanta area there's almost no day that goes by without hearing about a
raid on illegals having several pounds of the stuff or their labs


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12461559 - 04/26/10 08:47 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

> you're such an optimist, I'm sure the bulk of them will still be criminals,

So quick to judge.  It isn't as if they broke the law to get here... oh wait... never mind.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Seuss]
    #12462696 - 04/27/10 12:58 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

Violence broke out at a political demonstration over the weekend, as protesters chased police officers, pelting them with rocks and bottles. Was this a gang of Tea Partiers running amok, as eagerly awaited by so many liberals? Well, no. The demonstration was at the state capitol in Arizona, against that state's new immigration statute:






Title of this Youtube clip is "Mexicans Riot in Wake of Arizona Immigration Crackdown"

Quote:

Have you seen a lot of consternation in the press about this violent demonstration? No, neither have I. Maybe that's because reporters think the Arizona law is polarizing.




Source - "A Violent Demonstration"





Phred




Let them riot. I just hope they fail, and that Obama and the liberal fascist don't come to their aid against the American people.

No amnesty for sale for votes. America take a stand in the name of everything holy


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: mister]
    #12462774 - 04/27/10 01:16 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mister said:
This was something that has been long over due. Why do you think that the economy is in such shit shape. Because these companies are using the illegals to do the work, while they are on all the state benefits that they can get with whatever the ID that they are using can get them. All the time the American citizen that wants to work can't because of some illegals taking all the jobs. During this same time the illegals are pushing the drugs from their home country to make up the difference in income, while the citizens go to prison for possessing them. To which, all the revenue goes to either the native country or a store of their native culture, which in turn, the revenue still is sent back to the home country after stock is bought with no revenue coming back to the state that these illegals are getting benefits from. Why is this shit so hard for motherfuckers to figure out?




Ha yea that's the reason


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12462781 - 04/27/10 01:18 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Ah what a surprise that the 'government should have less role in our lives' guy wants the government to have a larger role in our lives.  Now where have I heard this hypocrisy before...

Im a real less government guy, youd shit yourself if you knew what people like me really want to do.


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Chespirito]
    #12462834 - 04/27/10 01:27 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
Ah what a surprise that the 'government should have less role in our lives' guy wants the government to have a larger role in our lives.  Now where have I heard this hypocrisy before...

Im a real less government guy, youd shit yourself if you knew what people like me really want to do.



I am against the government being in my life. I want them to follow the Constitution. Part of which is protecting our borders. That's happening more in Arizona now. More power to them.


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Invisiblemycurious
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Chespirito]
    #12463560 - 04/27/10 05:15 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
youd shit yourself if you knew that people like me really want to do sexual favors for family members.




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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12463629 - 04/27/10 06:26 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

> I am against the government being in my life. I want them to follow the Constitution. Part of which is protecting our borders.

You are being much too logical.  With smaller government, it is either all or nothing; we either get the nanny state to take care of us, or we get nothing and revert to anarchy.  Obviously, there can be no middle ground where a very limited federal government follows the constitution and provides for the security of the People.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Seuss]
    #12463858 - 04/27/10 09:04 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You're such a rebel!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #12464005 - 04/27/10 10:12 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

> You're such a rebel!

According to the liberals, I am a racist terrorist-enabler for wanting a smaller federal government.


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Seuss]
    #12464072 - 04/27/10 10:39 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Let's put on a minstrel show!  Say have you heard this one, have ya, have ya, huh?

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/26/a-muslim-a-jew-and-the-pc-police-wander-into-a-joke/

I'm not gonna go all "what an anti-semitic dick" because I don't necessarily think jokes based on stereotypes are de facto racist but this guy is just stupid.  Really stupid.


--------------------


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #12470886 - 04/28/10 12:59 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

How Mexico treats illegal aliens
by Michelle Malkin
Creators Syndicate
Copyright 2010

Mexican President Felipe Calderon has accused Arizona of opening the door “to intolerance, hate, discrimination and abuse in law enforcement.” But Arizona has nothing on Mexico when it comes to cracking down on illegal aliens. While open-borders activists decry new enforcement measures signed into law in “Nazi-zona” last week, they remain deaf, dumb or willfully blind to the unapologetically restrictionist policies of our neighbors to the south.

The Arizona law bans sanctuary cities that refuse to enforce immigration laws, stiffens penalties against illegal alien day laborers and their employers, makes it a misdemeanor for immigrants to fail to complete and carry an alien registration document, and allows the police to arrest immigrants unable to show documents proving they are in the U.S. legally. If those rules constitute the racist, fascist, xenophobic, inhumane regime that the National Council of La Raza, Al Sharpton, Catholic bishops and their grievance-mongering followers claim, then what about these regulations and restrictions imposed on foreigners?

– The Mexican government will bar foreigners if they upset “the equilibrium of the national demographics.” How’s that for racial and ethnic profiling?

– If outsiders do not enhance the country’s “economic or national interests” or are “not found to be physically or mentally healthy,” they are not welcome. Neither are those who show “contempt against national sovereignty or security.” They must not be economic burdens on society and must have clean criminal histories. Those seeking to obtain Mexican citizenship must show a birth certificate, provide a bank statement proving economic independence, pass an exam and prove they can provide their own health care.

– Illegal entry into the country is equivalent to a felony punishable by two years’ imprisonment. Document fraud is subject to fine and imprisonment; so is alien marriage fraud. Evading deportation is a serious crime; illegal re-entry after deportation is punishable by ten years’ imprisonment. Foreigners may be kicked out of the country without due process and the endless bites at the litigation apple that illegal aliens are afforded in our country (see, for example, President Obama’s illegal alien aunt — a fugitive from deportation for eight years who is awaiting a second decision on her previously rejected asylum claim).

– Law enforcement officials at all levels — by national mandate — must cooperate to enforce immigration laws, including illegal alien arrests and deportations. The Mexican military is also required to assist in immigration enforcement operations. Native-born Mexicans are empowered to make citizens’ arrests of illegal aliens and turn them in to authorities.

– Ready to show your papers? Mexico’s National Catalog of Foreigners tracks all outside tourists and foreign nationals. A National Population Registry tracks and verifies the identity of every member of the population, who must carry a citizens’ identity card. Visitors who do not possess proper documents and identification are subject to arrest as illegal aliens.

All of these provisions are enshrined in Mexico’s Ley General de Población (General Law of the Population) and were spotlighted in a 2006 research paper published by the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Security Policy. There’s been no public clamor for “comprehensive immigration reform” in Mexico, however, because pro-illegal alien speech by outsiders is prohibited.

Consider: Open-borders protesters marched freely at the Capitol building in Arizona, comparing GOP Gov. Jan Brewer to Hitler, waving Mexican flags, advocating that demonstrators “Smash the State,” and holding signs that proclaimed “No human is illegal” and “We have rights.”

But under the Mexican constitution, such political speech by foreigners is banned. Noncitizens cannot “in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.” In fact, a plethora of Mexican statutes enacted by its congress limit the participation of foreign nationals and companies in everything from investment, education, mining and civil aviation to electric energy and firearms. Foreigners have severely limited private property and employment rights (if any).

As for abuse, the Mexican government is notorious for its abuse of Central American illegal aliens who attempt to violate Mexico’s southern border. The Red Cross has protested rampant Mexican police corruption, intimidation and bribery schemes targeting illegal aliens there for years. Mexico didn’t respond by granting mass amnesty to illegal aliens, as it is demanding that we do. It clamped down on its borders even further. In late 2008, the Mexican government launched an aggressive deportation plan to curtain illegal Cuban immigration and human trafficking through Cancun.

Meanwhile, Mexican consular offices in the United States have coordinated with left-wing social justice groups and the Catholic Church leadership to demand a moratorium on all deportations and a freeze on all employment raids across America.

Mexico is doing the job Arizona is now doing — a job the U.S. government has failed miserably to do: putting its people first. Here’s the proper rejoinder to all the hysterical demagogues in Mexico (and their sympathizers here on American soil) now calling for boycotts and invoking Jim Crow laws, apartheid and the Holocaust because Arizona has taken its sovereignty into its own hands:

Hipócritas.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Therian]
    #12471087 - 04/28/10 01:35 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Therian said:
Quote:

the new law is aimed only at those illegal immigrants that can be racially profiled.. whereas an illegal immigrant from (for example) Sweden is not affected by the new law..since they cannot be racially profiled...



That's total bullshit. The law states that the individuals must carry identification and perhaps some kind of paperwork concerning their status.


What does this have to do with them being racially profiled?



Quote:

Therian said:
Did you know it is illegal for an American citizen not to carry identification?


Source?



Quote:

Therian said:
Yeah there are tons of Swedes bringing drugs into this country, killing our citizens, terrorizing our neighborhoods...


Source?



Quote:

Therian said:
...parasitizing our social system, congesting our schools with their fat, rat like, beady eyed, worthless vermin, which they have no problems creating in countless numbers.


Why are you so fucking racist, what the fuck is the matter with you?



Quote:

Therian said:
Don't forget they are here ILLEGALLY! They have broken the laws of our country, and continue to do so every minute of every hour of every day that they are here.


The US was founded on immigration--you don't give a fuck that they are breaking laws, you just don't want people who belong to races that you hate to be coming into this country.



Quote:

Therian said:
Its freaking amazing that when law enforcement actually has to do..you know, their job, they are considered racists.


It is not their job to racially profile others.



Quote:

Therian said:
Why should I have to let my neighborhood be taken over by illegals?


Is your neighborhood really being taken over by illegals?



Quote:

Therian said:
Why should I have to pay for the food, education, housing and health care of some greasy assed Mexican that has come to this country illegally?


More idiotic racism. :whatever:

If you don't want the government to pay for all that, then don't vote for people who agree with the bills which pay for all that.



Quote:

Therian said:
Why should the citizens of this country, those that have actually paid taxes have to go without...


Go without what?



Quote:

Therian said:
...so individuals that have decided to make a mockery of our laws can receive benefits?


Again, it's the fault of the country's representatives, and by extension, the citizenry's fault for voting them in.



Quote:

Therian said:
Prior to this the law enforcement told its citizens to arm themselves. Yes, that is the best they can do to protect our citizens from the Latino criminal element, tell the citizens to arm themselves.


What is the "Latino criminal element"--it almost sounds like those law enforcement agencies are pushing racist ideologies on its citizens.


Great, a racist government, pushing racist ideals--we've never seen this before. :rolleyes:



Quote:

Therian said:
What a freaking joke. And we are supposed to feel sorry for the assholes that come here illegally? Tell that to the victims of violent crime at the hands of these illegals.


Wait a minute, you're not actually saying that those particular illegals who commit violent crime do so because they are illegal, are you? :flowstone:



Quote:

Therian said:
Quote:

Emilio Almodovar, a 13-year-old American citizen from Phoenix. "We can't walk to school any more. We can't be in the streets anymore without the pigs thinking we're illegal immigrants."




Perfect example, sounds like Emilio is going to grow up to be a model citizen. I am going to pray now, pray that an illegal kills him and his family dead in the streets.


WTF, is there any reason why you feel that way? :what:



Quote:

Therian said:
Quote:

with AZ having passed what is by far the most racist legislation since the Japanese internment...




Actually the Germans were treated far worse than were the Japs...


Source?



Quote:

Therian said:
...they were imprisoned, deported from other countries (such as in Latin America) specifically to be jailed here.


And how does that show that they were treated far worse than the Japs?



Quote:

Therian said:
It doesn't count though as they were Caucasian, and as we all know pain is only felt by non whites. It doesn't make a compelling story if they are included, if they were you couldn't just cry racism all the time.


More complete idiotic racist rhetoric--who the fuck said it "doesn't count"? :cuckoo:



Quote:

Therian said:
Its no wonder Obama is against this. I believe we are all paying for his law breaking, social services, free housing, and health care receiving, welfare living, Negress whore of an aunt.


There is no wonder that you are an extremely racist individual. :ednorton:



Quote:

esp0791 said:
yea because the sweeds are taking our jobs and swarming to the US like fucking rats. Racial profiling is not racist if it is the truth.


Do you even know what racial profiling is?



Quote:

esp0791 said:
It is the dark skinned, mexicans, hispanics, whatever you want to call them. It is not racist, it is the truth, they are the ones who this is about, not the Sweeds.


So you think it's fair to concentrate mainly on a certain ethnicity of illegals, while ignoring another ethnicity, based on skin color?



Quote:

esp0791 said:
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
i doubt that any swedes would be stupid enough to want to live in a country infested with neo-nazi thugs...in any case..you still dont know how many swedes are here illegally...




I didn't say there were no Sweeds here illegally... I am sure there are, as well as a majority of other people from all over the world.


But none of those people should be deported, right, because their skin isn't dark enough?



Quote:

esp0791 said:
But the problem IS the people who are protesting... dark skinned latinos...


Why do you perceive them to be any more of a problem than any other illegal alien of a different race?



Quote:

esp0791 said:
we don't really see any pale white blond haired blue eyed latinos do we now?


There are actually quite a few of those. :picard:



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
Once the illegal aliens are given amnesty, they will be law abiding legal immigrants.





you're such an optimist, I'm sure the bulk of them will still be criminals,
they'll just be criminals that were granted citizenship for nothing


What makes you sure of that? :undecided:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Edited by Poid (04/28/10 02:00 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #12471112 - 04/28/10 01:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Consider the Source

I'm in my third decade of following politics and media and I thought I had seen it all, but I must say that I was taken aback by the national reaction to SB 1070--how could the reaction to the bill have been so widespread while the information about the bill was so utterly wrong?

The two are obviously connected.  The media portrayal of the bill made it sound like Kristallnacht and naturally the rest of the country reacted when they thought that Arizona was implementing a bill that violated the constitution on several fronts.

I've been trying to figure out the exact point at which incorrect information went national and I think I found it here.*  E.J. Dionne--arguably the most influential political reporter in Washington--used his "Post Partisan" column to decry Arizona's "Shameful" immigration bill.

It is nothing short of astonishing that Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer Friday signed a bill that could make it dangerous just to look Hispanic.

Based on what he knew, Dionne had the right to be astonished and the national media soon descended on Arizona.  Later President Obama himself would blast Arizona's "irresponsible" actions.

However, most of the factual information that E.J. Dionne used in his analysis was simply wrong.  What was the source of these errors?  Dionne made it clear that he got his information from an April 22nd Arizona Republic editorial--Dionne included a link as well as a large block quote from the editorial.  Unfortunately, ALL of the facts about the bill that Dionne used as the basis of his column--a column that lit a national fire and ended with the President singling out Arizona for ridicule--were wrong.

I've copied the block quote (in blue) that Dionne used and will analyze the statements line by line, but rather than just trusting my analysis of the bill, please refer to the sidebar in the article in today's paper that the Republic itself used to describe the bill.  It seems that once the Republic had time to analyze what the bill actually did, they described the bill in dramatically different terms than the editorial.

Here's the first "fact" that E.J. Dionne picked up from the Republic

The broad anti-immigrant bill passed by the Legislature this week makes it a crime to be in the country illegally

Wrong.  It's already a crime to be in the country illegally.  SB 1070 made it a STATE crime by copying the federal language.  This makes a huge difference because opponents used Dionne's quote to say that Arizona was adopting its own immigration policy as well as criminalizing being in the country illegally.  Both of those assumptions are wrong.  Sunday's article got it right by emphasizing that the bill made it a "state crime."

and gives local cops the job of demanding documentation if they have reasonable suspicion someone lacks it.

Wrong.  Local cops have the job of asking for documentation only if they believe it's "practicable" and even that requirement is eliminated if they believe that asking for documentation "may hinder or obstruct an investigation."  The essence of this provision is that it prohibits cities or police departments from adopting a policy that stops the police from checking immigration status. Again Sunday's explanation of the bill's provisions got this point right.

Back to the editorial upon which Dionne relied...

The need to carry proper ‘papers’ falls squarely on Arizona's Latino population -- including those born and raised in the Grand Canyon State.

Wrong--and frankly outrageous.  Federal law already requires resident aliens to carry registration documents.  SB 1070 makes it a state crime to violate the federal law.  The law doesn't apply to "those born and raised in the Grand Canyon State" because they are obviously citizens.  The law also lists documents that provide a presumption of citizenship one of which is a Driver's License. There is no need for citizens to carry their birth certificate or passport.  Once again, if you read the explanation in Sunday's Republic, you will see how incorrect the editorial is.

The bill invites racial profiling and ignores the fact that Latinos are an intrinsic part of Arizona's history and its future.

Wrong.  Actually, the bill prohibits racial profiling by saying that race can only be considered to the "extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution."  And under no circumstances can the officer "solely" consider race, color or national origin.  (He can "consider" race as a factor just like he can under federal and Arizona law now.)  Sunday's version doesn't even address this point because the bill makes it so clear that racial profiling is NOT allowed that it wasn't even worth a mention--that's because there's no change in the law.  Racial profiling was not allowed before the bill and it's not allowed after the bill.

The bill . . . is bringing thundering bad publicity that will echo for years to come. It will lead to lost economic-development opportunities, lost tourism and lost opportunities to expand our trade and commercial ties with Mexico.

Well, this part is actually true.  The bill really is bringing bad publicity that will echo for years to come.  It's too bad that the bad publicity is based on a factually inaccurate editorial that received national exposure.

So what's the Republic going to do about it?  Obviously simply correcting the editorial on A2 is inadequate.  Randy Lovely needs to tell us who wrote the editorial and what went wrong.  After all, the faulty reporting has had nation wide implications and may cost Arizona billions of dollars.  It's not possible to un-ring this bell.  But I for one would like to hear how the Republic is going to ensure that it doesn't get rung again.

Footnote:  Dionne's post couldn't have been part of the first wave in which the wrong information went national, because the post was written after Governor Brewer had already signed the bill.  But I think it was likely responsible for the second wave--the one that included the President--and I think that the first wave probably also relied on the Republic editorial.  I used Dionne as an example because he CLEARLY relied on the editorial.  My guess is that the editorial was widely read beforehand and was responsible for the initial wave as well.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12474028 - 04/28/10 11:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Im interested in his answers to that and hope he addresses each one though I imagine he will only address a few if any.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Chespirito]
    #12474535 - 04/29/10 12:53 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Therian said:
Yeah there are tons of Swedes bringing drugs into this country, killing our citizens, terrorizing our neighborhoods...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source?

That's called sarcasm. The point being there are no Swedes bringing tons of drugs into this country, committing murder, forming gangs, and terrorizing neighborhoods.


Quote:

The US was founded on immigration--you don't give a fuck that they are breaking laws, you just don't want people who belong to races that you hate to be coming into this country




Don't you understand the difference between ILLEGAL and LEGAL immigration? You are now going to tell me what I want? One would presume that due to the fact you are the product of inbreeding this act bestowed you the mutant ability to read minds. Can your uncle dad do the same?

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Therian said:
...they were imprisoned, deported from other countries (such as in Latin America) specifically to be jailed here.


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And how does that show that they were treated far worse than the Japs?

I find it suspect that you strive to artificially present yourself as enlightened when it comes to racial sensitivity, yet you use a derogatory term for the Japanese. How were they treated far worse? Did you ever hear of japs being deported from other countries specifically so they could be jailed here, without committing any crime. The Germans were incarcerated in jail, the Japs, in trailer parks, much the same as you.

Some day when your mother wins the lotto with all the tickets she purchases from her welfare checks, and is able to send you abroad you will see that when you travel internationally, you are required to carry the requisite paperwork. So is every other country racist? Why don't I illegally enter France, bring drugs with me, commit crimes against the population, and expect them to provide me with shelter, food, health care, and teach my 11 children to speak the language. All the while I will not work, or will do so illegally, adding nothing to the system, yet gladly taking from it. To top it off I will then call them racist when they don't approve of my illegal activities, as if I were the victim. Give me a fucking break.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Wait a minute, you're not actually saying that those particular illegals who commit violent crime do so because they are illegal, are you? [/quote

Obviously if they entered this country, knowingly violating our law, and continue to do so, they have proven they have absolutely no regard for this country or its people, yet even as they are ILLEGALS, you presume that they somehow will not commit even more crime. Yet they entered this country as criminals and continue to stay here as such.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Therian said:
Why should the citizens of this country, those that have actually paid taxes have to go without...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go without what?

Are you serious? Go without security, go without jobs, etc. etc. Special ESL schools have to be constructed to educate their ignorant masses. Many American citizens have had to go without jobs because of these criminal fucks. They should be sent packing and those that hire them fined. Many Americans couldn't get into public housing due to the fact many illegals have taken them ( see Obamas Negress aunt). All the while our government has done shit, can you blame AZ? I love them for standing up to the criminal element, and that is what the Illegals are, criminals plain and simple. Honestly how ignorant are you? I take it you must be an underage user, as anyone over the age of 13 can't possibly be as simple as you.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Therian]
    #12474602 - 04/29/10 01:06 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yea thats about the answer I was expecting


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Offlineesp0791
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12475744 - 04/29/10 08:19 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:



Quote:

esp0791 said:
we don't really see any pale white blond haired blue eyed latinos do we now?


There are actually quite a few of those. :picard:


:undecided:



never said there werent any...they just dont seeme to be the majority now do they? you must be one of them thar illegals now for aktin tha way yu du sur!:crazy2:


--------------------
Peace and Love:mushroom2:

                                                                                       


Edited by esp0791 (04/29/10 08:22 AM)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Therian]
    #12479945 - 04/29/10 10:02 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Therian said:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Therian said:
Yeah there are tons of Swedes bringing drugs into this country, killing our citizens, terrorizing our neighborhoods...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source?

That's called sarcasm. The point being there are no Swedes bringing tons of drugs into this country, committing murder, forming gangs, and terrorizing neighborhoods.


Source?



Quote:

Therian said:
Quote:

The US was founded on immigration--you don't give a fuck that they are breaking laws, you just don't want people who belong to races that you hate to be coming into this country




Don't you understand the difference between ILLEGAL and LEGAL immigration? You are now going to tell me what I want? One would presume that due to the fact you are the product of inbreeding this act bestowed you the mutant ability to read minds. Can your uncle dad do the same?


What the fuck are you on about now?

This country was founded on both illegal and legal immigration--really, what's the difference between an illegal immigrant and a legal one? Nothing but a piece of plastic (i.e.- a green card).



Quote:

Therian said:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Therian said:
...they were imprisoned, deported from other countries (such as in Latin America) specifically to be jailed here.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And how does that show that they were treated far worse than the Japs?

I find it suspect that you strive to artificially present yourself as enlightened when it comes to racial sensitivity, yet you use a derogatory term for the Japanese.


That's not a derogatory term, and I only used it because you did (I like to be consistent in my conversations with other so as to avoid confusion).



Quote:

Therian said:
How were they treated far worse? Did you ever hear of japs being deported from other countries specifically so they could be jailed here, without committing any crime. The Germans were incarcerated in jail, the Japs, in trailer parks, much the same as you.


When did that happen, do you have a source?



Quote:

Therian said:
Some day when your mother wins the lotto with all the tickets she purchases from her welfare checks, and is able to send you abroad you will see that when you travel internationally, you are required to carry the requisite paperwork.


My mom works for the administration in a public school, and is also a licensed notary/real estate agent. My father owns his own electrical contracting business.


More hateful, racist stereotypes coming from your end. :ednorton:



Quote:

Therian said:
So is every other country racist? Why don't I illegally enter France, bring drugs with me, commit crimes against the population, and expect them to provide me with shelter, food, health care, and teach my 11 children to speak the language.


First of all, what's wrong with bringing drugs into the country? :undecided:

Second of all, only a few illegals commit crimes against the population (and all those other things), most of them actually provide the US with a reliable labor force for industries such as agriculture, fast-food, landscaping, etc. Many of their children learn the language from going to US schools, and watching English TV programs because their parents don't speak the language.



Quote:

Therian said:
Obviously if they entered this country, knowingly violating our law, and continue to do so, they have proven they have absolutely no regard for this country or its people...


How are they proving that? Do you honestly believe that somebody who committed a certain crime is just as likely to commit that crime than to commit a crime of a completely different nature (i.e.- do you actually believe that people breaking the law by coming here illegally are just as likely to do that as to, say, murder people?)?


Illegals broke one victimless law to come here, how on Earth you figure that this means it's highly likely that they're going to commit serious crimes once in our borders is way beyond me, and anyone who isn't a complete idiotic racist fuckhead. :laser:



Quote:

Therian said:
yet even as they are ILLEGALS, you presume that they somehow will not commit even more crime. Yet they entered this country as criminals and continue to stay here as such.


More stupid, complete bullshit--you cannot brand all those who break the law as "criminals", and expect them to be all the same. Crossing the border is a petty crime, whereas, say, murder, is not. Illegals who cross the border don't do so because they love breaking laws of all sorts, and have a criminal mindset, they do it for one reason, and one reason only: to get across the border.



Quote:

Therian said:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Therian said:
Why should the citizens of this country, those that have actually paid taxes have to go without...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go without what?

Are you serious? Go without security, go without jobs, etc. etc.


Yes I'm fucking serious--be clear, or else I won't know exactly what the fuck you're talking about.


How do US citizens go without security as a result of having illegals come in? Yes, some citizens lose (menial) job opportunities to immigrants, but, again, the immigrant labor force helps out our economy.

Your statement is blatantly retarded, you're saying "Why should..those who...paid taxes...go without...jobs."--those without jobs don't even pay any fucking taxes. :imslow:



Quote:

Therian said:
Special ESL schools have to be constructed to educate their ignorant masses.


You're saying that like Americans aren't mostly masses of ignoramuses. :lol:


What problem do you have with education? :undecided:



Quote:

Therian said:
Many American citizens have had to go without jobs because of these criminal fucks. They should be sent packing and those that hire them fined. Many Americans couldn't get into public housing due to the fact many illegals have taken them ( see Obamas Negress aunt).


I thought you were against public housing? :strokebeard:


Many US citizens go without jobs because they're not willing to work for as little as most immigrants are--it's simple economics. :shrug:



Quote:

Therian said:
All the while our government has done shit, can you blame AZ?


Yes I can, a state has no business regulating immigration, which is a federal issue.



Quote:

Therian said:
I love them for standing up to the criminal element, and that is what the Illegals are, criminals plain and simple.


Yeah, all criminals are exactly the fucking same--a J-walker is just as "evil" ad horrible as a child serial-killer rapist. :sadyes:

:tard:



Quote:

Therian said:
Honestly how ignorant are you? I take it you must be an underage user, as anyone over the age of 13 can't possibly be as simple as you.


Ad Hominems, the last resort for idiotic debaters with extremely weak arguments. :lol:


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12480041 - 04/29/10 10:20 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You ignoring the fact that Illegals can work for less because they don't have SS numbers, and don't pay taxes. Your also ignoring the fact that their is a legal system in place that they can use to come here and work. There is nothing wrong with them coming here if they follow the rules.

People who are opposed to this bill are yelling racism, and alot of other rhetoric to rally the mindless leftist masses.

But the truth is all that this bill did was force law enforcment to do their job, mainly by enforcing our laws.

Let clear up the big lie from the left. Police in Arizona will not be allowed to now stop any Americans Mexican (like myself) and ask them for ID.

If you want to talk about rouge police, the fact that they are not punished for the poor performance, and people who don't have enough guts to stand up to a law enforcment official when he over steps their constitutional rights that's a different subject all together.


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12480122 - 04/29/10 10:30 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

what the United States Supreme Court said. What the United States Supreme Court held in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, was that a state could make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself (i.e., tell the officer his name and address) when lawfully detained for criminal activity. Note that the Supreme Court did NOT say that any kind of identification papers could be required. There is no law in the United States requiring everybody to carry ID, at least not yet.

You have to be committing a criminal activity or operating a motor vehicle to be required by law to show your identification.

So no they can't shake down Mexicans based on the ethnicity.

This applies to whites, Asians, blacks and Hispanics alike

The Bill http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Where was the part about people being required to have ID on that all time
Where's the part about road stops checking peoples ID's
There not there. You apparently just choose to ignore facts you don't like

This is a little thing call fact that many people like to over look because when it contradicts there view point.

Again if you want to talk about rouge police abusing peoples constitutional rights, and how they are not punished severely enough, that's a different subject all together. But, it doesn't change the fact that this law can be implemented without such violation, and there is nothing wrong with enforcing our immigration laws. As some one else here has already pointed out Mexico has the same types of law as well.

And if your going to look at police violating people constitutional rights, then there is another point to made. What about the publics responsibility to make a stand against constitutional rights violations from these rouge officers. Maybe if people didn't roll over on their backs like submissive dogs every time they were confronted by such an official they would have more respect for our constitutional rights.

I'm of Mexican descent, and I don't have a problem with this law. But, that probably has something to with the fact that I'm not afraid of police. I have a camera, and recorder on my phone, I have a lawyer, I am a law abiding citizen. Let a police officer try to violate my constitutional rights, and let him see if he doesn't regret it in the end.

People have a responsibility to exert their rights, but they don't. No wonder why everyone in government has no problem trampling all over them.


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12480315 - 04/29/10 11:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

But everyone has to have a license to drive, so you already have an ID if you are driving. Just the same if you are driving and do not have one, you are going to be charged. So essentially the subject matter is the only real difference here.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: mister]
    #12480400 - 04/29/10 11:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

There is no requirement that you drive.  Did you know that people holding green cards are required by law, and always have been, to carry them on their person at all times and to present them on demand?  Now how do you suppose that can be enforced if anybody ever anywhere can deny identifying themselves?

Not necessarily meant for you, mister, just a general observation.


--------------------


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12480581 - 04/29/10 11:42 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
The Nook


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12480596 - 04/29/10 11:44 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
You ignoring the fact that Illegals can work for less because they don't have SS numbers, and don't pay taxes. Your also ignoring the fact that their is a legal system in place that they can use to come here and work. There is nothing wrong with them coming here if they follow the rules.


I'm not ignoring those facts at all, and I'm not sure what makes you think that I am...:wtf:


There is no difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant, except for the fact that legals have green cards.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
People who are opposed to this bill are yelling racism, and alot of other rhetoric to rally the mindless leftist masses.

But the truth is all that this bill did was force law enforcment to do their job, mainly by enforcing our laws.


States do not have any business in enforcing immigration laws, this is a federal issue--this bill was just made to send a message to the rest of the country.


It is not law enforcement's job to racially profile people, and this bill just makes it easier for cops to get away with doing that.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Let clear up the big lie from the left. Police in Arizona will not be allowed to now stop any Americans Mexican (like myself) and ask them for ID.


There is an obvious distinction between de jure and de facto law--there are plenty of things that officers get away with which they are not allowed to do; again, this bill just makes it easier for officers to racially profile humans that look Mexican.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
If you want to talk about rouge police, the fact that they are not punished for the poor performance, and people who don't have enough guts to stand up to a law enforcment official when he over steps their constitutional rights that's a different subject all together.


That issue is somewhat intermingled with this one--IME, cops do anything they can to  step on peoples' constitutional rights, they generally do not give a fuck.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
what the United States Supreme Court said. What the United States Supreme Court held in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, was that a state could make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself (i.e., tell the officer his name and address) when lawfully detained for criminal activity. Note that the Supreme Court did NOT say that any kind of identification papers could be required. There is no law in the United States requiring everybody to carry ID, at least not yet.

You have to be committing a criminal activity or operating a motor vehicle to be required by law to show your identification.

So no they can't shake down Mexicans based on the ethnicity.

This applies to whites, Asians, blacks and Hispanics alike


That only makes it so that cops hawk over Mexicans until they slip, and break the tiniest little law, so that they have to show identification--this is called racial profiling.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Where was the part about people being required to have ID on that all time
Where's the part about road stops checking peoples ID's
There not there. You apparently just choose to ignore facts you don't like


Not sure why you keep insisting that I'm ignoring facts, but it's really fucking retarded. :lol:

Let me repeat, these laws are just going to encourage police officers to watch over Mexican humans more than they watch over any other ethnicity--what strikes me as odd is that you're Mexican, and you show no sign that you are not OK with this. :confused:



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
This is a little thing call fact that many people like to over look because when it contradicts there view point.


Yeah, again, you accuse me of some made-up fantasy bullshit that you got from who-knows-where. :cuckoo:


PS- learn how to spell "their" correctly. :flowstone:



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Again if you want to talk about rouge police abusing peoples constitutional rights, and how they are not punished severely enough, that's a different subject all together.


Again, that subject is intermingled with this one; it's not irrelevant at all. :nonono:



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
But, it doesn't change the fact that this law can be implemented without such violation, and there is nothing wrong with enforcing our immigration laws. As some one else here has already pointed out Mexico has the same types of law as well.


Who cares if Mexico has the same type, or even harsher immigration laws? Nobody from the US is going to want to immigrate to Mexico anyways, I would think those laws are mostly there to punish people who enter Mexico from their southern border.


I don't totally agree with current US immigration law, but I agree there is nothing inherently wrong with simple enforcement of existing law--it's how people go about this enforcement that can be controversial.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
And if your going to look at police violating people constitutional rights, then there is another point to made. What about the publics responsibility to make a stand against constitutional rights violations from these rouge officers. Maybe if people didn't roll over on their backs like submissive dogs every time they were confronted by such an official they would have more respect for our constitutional rights.


You've never had your rights stepped on by an officer, have you? :strokebeard:



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
I'm of Mexican descent, and I don't have a problem with this law.


I am 100% Mexican (although I was born and raised here in the US), and I do have a problem with this law. :shrug:



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
But, that probably has something to with the fact that I'm not afraid of police. I have a camera, and recorder on my phone, I have a lawyer, I am a law abiding citizen. Let a police officer try to violate my constitutional rights, and let him see if he doesn't regret it in the end.


You are a completely law abiding citizen? Do you use any drugs, speed on the freeway, bike on the wrong side of the road, spit on the sidewalk, J-walk across the street, or commit any other victimless crimes?


You have a camera, a recorder on your phone, and a lawyer? Good for you! :super:

Most people who have their rights stepped on by police don't have any of that shit.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
People have a responsibility to exert their rights, but they don't.


No, actually, we do not any sort of responsibility. It is law enforcement's responsibility to protect our rights, but that's never going to happen in a country where police officers are allowed, and even encouraged to lie to citizens.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
No wonder why everyone in government has no problem trampling all over them.


Wow, you're excusing the government for essentially breaking the law by trampling on peoples' rights, and putting the blame on the citizenry? Are you fucking retarded? :flowstone:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid] * 1
    #12480847 - 04/30/10 12:30 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
You ignoring the fact that Illegals can work for less because they don't have SS numbers, and don't pay taxes. Your also ignoring the fact that their is a legal system in place that they can use to come here and work. There is nothing wrong with them coming here if they follow the rules.


I'm not ignoring those facts at all, and I'm not sure what makes you think that I am...:wtf:


There is no difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant, except for the fact that legals have green cards.




And I suppose you think they got those green cards from the green card tree.  The difference is a little more subtle than you seem to appreciate. One is following the law of the country he is enetering and showing the proper respect.  The other is a criminal.  Oh yeah, and they are also different people with different DNA.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
People who are opposed to this bill are yelling racism, and alot of other rhetoric to rally the mindless leftist masses.

But the truth is all that this bill did was force law enforcment to do their job, mainly by enforcing our laws.


States do not have any business in enforcing immigration laws, this is a federal issue--this bill was just made to send a message to the rest of the country.


It is not law enforcement's job to racially profile people, and this bill just makes it easier for cops to get away with doing that.




There is no racial profiling requirement in the bill.  If you think there is would you please point it out to us.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Let clear up the big lie from the left. Police in Arizona will not be allowed to now stop any Americans Mexican (like myself) and ask them for ID.


There is an obvious distinction between de jure and de facto law--there are plenty of things that officers get away with which they are not allowed to do; again, this bill just makes it easier for officers to racially profile humans that look Mexican.




Would you please in your bigoted fashion show us just exactly what a Mexican looks like.  Also please show us all how an illegal immigrant from Mexico is similar in appearance to an illegal immigrant from Poland since they are treated exactly equally under this law.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
If you want to talk about rouge police, the fact that they are not punished for the poor performance, and people who don't have enough guts to stand up to a law enforcment official when he over steps their constitutional rights that's a different subject all together.


That issue is somewhat intermingled with this one--IME, cops do anything they can to  step on peoples' constitutional rights, they generally do not give a fuck.


  Why do you hate cops, you anti-cop bigot?  If it wasn't for cops you would be my sex slave.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
what the United States Supreme Court said. What the United States Supreme Court held in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, was that a state could make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself (i.e., tell the officer his name and address) when lawfully detained for criminal activity. Note that the Supreme Court did NOT say that any kind of identification papers could be required. There is no law in the United States requiring everybody to carry ID, at least not yet.



There is a law requiring immigrants to carry their green card at all times and to produce it on demand.
Quote:



You have to be committing a criminal activity or operating a motor vehicle to be required by law to show your identification.

So no they can't shake down Mexicans based on the ethnicity.


 

Correct.  Nor does this law in any way change that.
Quote:



This applies to whites, Asians, blacks and Hispanics alike


That only makes it so that cops hawk over Mexicans until they slip, and break the tiniest little law, so that they have to show identification--this is called racial profiling.




You have convicted the cops before they even had a chance to act.  Can you say fallacious prior restraint?  You are beyond absurd.  Again
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Where was the part about people being required to have ID on that all time
Where's the part about road stops checking peoples ID's
There not there. You apparently just choose to ignore facts you don't like


Not sure why you keep insisting that I'm ignoring facts, but it's really fucking retarded. :lol:

Let me repeat, these laws are just going to encourage police officers to watch over Mexican humans more than they watch over any other ethnicity--what strikes me as odd is that you're Mexican, and you show no sign that you are not OK with this. :confused:




Laws against securities fraud cause cops to look over white people's shoulders disproportionately.  Do you think we should get rid of them since they are obviously race based?
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
This is a little thing call fact that many people like to over look because when it contradicts there view point.


Yeah, again, you accuse me of some made-up fantasy bullshit that you got from who-knows-where. :cuckoo:


  The only fantasy I see is from you who is convicted law enforcers of improper acts before they even have a chance to amake them.  You are making a prior argument that becase it is popssible for cops to abuse their opsition they will.  I can also make the exact same argument that you could possibly be a murderer and thus must be stopped now.  Get in the car.
Quote:










Quote:

Simplicitry said:
But, it doesn't change the fact that this law can be implemented without such violation, and there is nothing wrong with enforcing our immigration laws. As some one else here has already pointed out Mexico has the same types of law as well.


Who cares if Mexico has the same type, or even harsher immigration laws? Nobody from the US is going to want to immigrate to Mexico anyways, I would think those laws are mostly there to punish people who enter Mexico from their southern border.




So what?  This merely points out the fact that the Mexican government actively supports the infiltration of our southern border.  I think we should allow exactly zero legal immigrants from Mexico until they change their official policy.  There are more than enough Domnicans and Poes to replace them.
Quote:




I don't totally agree with current US immigration law, but I agree there is nothing inherently wrong with simple enforcement of existing law--it's how people go about this enforcement that can be controversial.




Once again, prior conviction.  In my experience cops are much better people than the general population.  By far.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
And if your going to look at police violating people constitutional rights, then there is another point to made. What about the publics responsibility to make a stand against constitutional rights violations from these rouge officers. Maybe if people didn't roll over on their backs like submissive dogs every time they were confronted by such an official they would have more respect for our constitutional rights.


You've never had your rights stepped on by an officer, have you? :strokebeard:




Nope.  Because I am not a fucking stupid douche.  Are you?
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
I'm of Mexican descent, and I don't have a problem with this law.


I am 100% Mexican (although I was born and raised here in the US), and I do have a problem with this law. :shrug:




That's pretty foolish.  How d you feel an]bout the fact that all these infiltartors have made you a suspect?  If they weren't coming over in wave after wave of greedy little sneaks you wouldn't be under suspicion by any rational person.  Or maybe it is just that you think we should let them all in.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
But, that probably has something to with the fact that I'm not afraid of police. I have a camera, and recorder on my phone, I have a lawyer, I am a law abiding citizen. Let a police officer try to violate my constitutional rights, and let him see if he doesn't regret it in the end.


You are a completely law abiding citizen? Do you use any drugs, speed on the freeway, bike on the wrong side of the road, spit on the sidewalk, J-walk across the street, or commit any other victimless crimes?




Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime.  We are all victims of it, including every single person who would like to come legally.
Quote:




You have a camera, a recorder on your phone, and a lawyer? Good for you! :super:

Most people who have their rights stepped on by police don't have any of that shit.


  Most people who get hassled by the police fucking deserve it.  By far.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
People have a responsibility to exert their rights, but they don't.


No, actually, we do not any sort of responsibility. It is law enforcement's responsibility to protect our rights, but that's never going to happen in a country where police officers are allowed, and even encouraged to lie to citizens.


  Stupid drivel.  They get prosecuted for lying in court.  As far as what they tell you outside of that, well, tough shit.  You have the right to remain silent.  You should use it.  They even have to remind you of it, for some idiotic reason.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
No wonder why everyone in government has no problem trampling all over them.


Wow, you're excusing the government for essentially breaking the law by trampling on peoples' rights, and putting the blame on the citizenry? Are you fucking retarded? :flowstone:




If your rights get trampled you have recourse.  You could actually make big money.  Go for it.


--------------------


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InvisibleTherian
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12481052 - 04/30/10 01:16 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I thought of responding to this mentally impaired, hyper simplistic Mexicans post but why bother when Zappa concisely put it into perspective.

Quote:

Nope.  Because I am not a fucking stupid douche.  Are you?


  I'm sure we all know the answer to that.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12481489 - 04/30/10 03:01 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There is no requirement that you drive.  Did you know that people holding green cards are required by law, and always have been, to carry them on their person at all times and to present them on demand?  Now how do you suppose that can be enforced if anybody ever anywhere can deny identifying themselves?

Not necessarily meant for you, mister, just a general observation.




Well non of us are, regardless of race. That's what's called fact


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12481547 - 04/30/10 03:17 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

wh
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There is no requirement that you drive.  Did you know that people holding green cards are required by law, and always have been, to carry them on their person at all times and to present them on demand?  Now how do you suppose that can be enforced if anybody ever anywhere can deny identifying themselves?

Not necessarily meant for you, mister, just a general observation.




Well none of us are required to show ID, regardless of race. Unless you fit the below criteria. That's what's called fact.

What the United States Supreme Court held in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, was that a state could make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself (i.e., tell the officer his name and address) when lawfully detained for criminal activity. Note that the Supreme Court did NOT say that any kind of identification papers could be required. There is no law in the United States requiring everybody to carry ID, at least not yet.

You have to be committing a criminal activity or operating a motor vehicle to be required by law to show your identification.

So no they can't shake down Mexicans based on the ethnicity.

This applies to whites, Asians, blacks and Hispanics alike

The Bill http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Where was the part about people being required to have ID on that all time
Where's the part about road stops checking peoples ID's
There not there. You apparently just choose to make things up

This is a little thing call fact that many people like to over look because when it contradicts there view point.

Again if you want to talk about rouge police abusing peoples constitutional rights, and how they are not punished severely enough, that's a different subject all together. But, it doesn't change the fact that this law can be implemented without such violation, and there is nothing wrong with enforcing our immigration laws. As some one else here has already pointed out Mexico has the same types of law as well.

And if your going to look at police violating people constitutional rights, then there is another point to made. What about the publics responsibility to make a stand against constitutional rights violations from these rouge officers. Maybe if people didn't roll over on their backs like submissive dogs every time they were confronted by such an official they would have more respect for our constitutional rights.

I'm of Mexican descent, and I don't have a problem with this law. But, that probably has something to with the fact that I'm not afraid of police. I have a camera, and recorder on my phone, I have a lawyer, I am a law abiding citizen. Let a police officer try to violate my constitutional rights, and let him see if he doesn't regret it in the end.

People have a responsibility to exert their rights, but they don't. No wonder why everyone in government has no problem trampling all over them.




--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


Edited by Simplicitry (04/30/10 03:34 AM)


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InvisibleTherian
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12483047 - 04/30/10 02:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

On another note ICE just arrested another 600 innocent undocumented "workers" all of whom were criminals. They arrested one who is still wanted for murder charges in Fla. Another had previously been jailed for murder in our country, was deported, and illegally returned, I'm sure he was just looking for work. Others were child molesters, drug dealers, and violent criminals.

Can you believe they were arrested? Those law enforcement officials must be racist for arresting Mexican child molesters and others. I wonder if we send them back and they molest mexican children, if they will then be considered criminals. 600 down, 'bout 20 million to go.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Therian] * 1
    #12483103 - 04/30/10 02:12 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I think we have a very stupid return policy.  We just ship them to the border and dump them.  I think we need to fly them all the way to the furthest point in their country of origin and dump them there.  Or maybe Antarctica.  Naked.  It would be cheaper in the long run than to keep chasing the same assholes over and over again.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12484274 - 04/30/10 05:37 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I think this article puts some things in perspective

http://www.slate.com/id/2252362/?GT1=38001


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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OfflineDropScience
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12487090 - 05/01/10 04:05 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
This so-called law targets nobody because it's illegal from the start.  Apparently the AZ politicos are not aware that 'illegal alien' status speaks of being in the country illegally, making it a federal matter, not state.  A state can no more regulate immigration than they can regulate the airspace over their state.  It's just grandstanding to make a point.
RR




Ha! The majority of what the federal government does is unconstitutional in the first place!  Powers not delegated... Shit they have been been piling on imaginary made up powers since the civil war when Abraham Lincoln massively centralized federal power..  So when A state finally tries to do the fed's job because they have willfully neglected their own duty, you call foul?  What bullshit.


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OfflineDropScience
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #12487095 - 05/01/10 04:07 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I personally think 30 million Americans should get pregnant and all show up at Mexican hospitals when their water breaks.

If all these Mexicans were white skinned, no one would think it racist to deport them, it would just be common fucking sense. Do you think Mexico gives a fuck about deporting Guatemalans jumping their southern boarder? I'd like to see them cry about racial profiling on the Mexico/Guatemalan boarder.. That shit wouldn't fly there.

The Mexicans are calling it an INVASION. Mexico has all but completely collapsed. 20,000 people have died and our own federal goverment wants to try to guilt us into letting it go on out of fear of being called a racist. Again, the Mexicans call it THE INVASION, and they teach and brainwash their kids in their schools to believe in a radical 'Reconquista' agenda.. For those of you that are Ignorant of history, the essence is that they believe that western America is theirs and they have the right to take it back.. La Raza's fucking motto, yes that means "The Race", is "for those in the race everything, those that are not, nothing", im sorry, who is the fucking racist here? Jesus christ that shit makes KKK members look moderate.

Racial profiling? For fucks sake, grow some fucking balls.


Edited by DropScience (05/01/10 04:28 AM)


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: DropScience]
    #12487543 - 05/01/10 08:34 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DropScience said:
I personally think 30 million Americans should get pregnant and all show up at Mexican hospitals when their water breaks.

If all these Mexicans were white skinned, no one would think it racist to deport them, it would just be common fucking sense. Do you think Mexico gives a fuck about deporting Guatemalans jumping their southern boarder? I'd like to see them cry about racial profiling on the Mexico/Guatemalan boarder.. That shit wouldn't fly there.

The Mexicans are calling it an INVASION. Mexico has all but completely collapsed. 20,000 people have died and our own federal goverment wants to try to guilt us into letting it go on out of fear of being called a racist. Again, the Mexicans call it THE INVASION, and they teach and brainwash their kids in their schools to believe in a radical 'Reconquista' agenda.. For those of you that are Ignorant of history, the essence is that they believe that western America is theirs and they have the right to take it back.. La Raza's fucking motto, yes that means "The Race", is "for those in the race everything, those that are not, nothing", im sorry, who is the fucking racist here? Jesus christ that shit makes KKK members look moderate.

Racial profiling? For fucks sake, grow some fucking balls.






:bow2:


--------------------
Peace and Love:mushroom2:

                                                                                       


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12491112 - 05/01/10 11:35 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I think we have a very stupid return policy.  We just ship them to the border and dump them.  I think we need to fly them all the way to the furthest point in their country of origin and dump them there.  Or maybe Antarctica.  Naked.  It would be cheaper in the long run than to keep chasing the same assholes over and over again.




it costs about a buck for a bullet, much cheaper than an airline flight
and it should make the hippies happy since it also cuts way down on
carbon emissions

unless of course by dump you meant their lifeless corpses, in which case
we can use the cheap bullets and offend some hippies all at once


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OfflineFreakdaddy
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: DropScience]
    #12491181 - 05/01/10 11:46 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DropScience said:
Ha! The majority of what the federal government does is unconstitutional in the first place!  Powers not delegated... Shit they have been been piling on imaginary made up powers since the civil war when Abraham Lincoln massively centralized federal power..  So when A state finally tries to do the fed's job because they have willfully neglected their own duty, you call foul?  What bullshit.




YOU  :harhar: 

Are a good white man.  :thumbup:


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: DropScience]
    #12509109 - 05/05/10 07:25 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DropScience said:
I personally think 30 million Americans should get pregnant and all show up at Mexican hospitals when their water breaks.

If all these Mexicans were white skinned, no one would think it racist to deport them, it would just be common fucking sense. Do you think Mexico gives a fuck about deporting Guatemalans jumping their southern boarder? I'd like to see them cry about racial profiling on the Mexico/Guatemalan boarder.. That shit wouldn't fly there.

The Mexicans are calling it an INVASION. Mexico has all but completely collapsed. 20,000 people have died and our own federal goverment wants to try to guilt us into letting it go on out of fear of being called a racist. Again, the Mexicans call it THE INVASION, and they teach and brainwash their kids in their schools to believe in a radical 'Reconquista' agenda.. For those of you that are Ignorant of history, the essence is that they believe that western America is theirs and they have the right to take it back.. La Raza's fucking motto, yes that means "The Race", is "for those in the race everything, those that are not, nothing", im sorry, who is the fucking racist here? Jesus christ that shit makes KKK members look moderate.

Racial profiling? For fucks sake, grow some fucking balls.




:handth:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: niteowl]
    #12512785 - 05/05/10 09:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

This is nothing new. In fact, its akin to Arizona signing a bill that says, "Marijuana is illegal under federal and state law, and anyone found to be in possession of Marijuana will be prosecuted accordingly."

OMGZ! POLICE ARE GONNA PROFILE HIPPIES AND PULL THEM OVER LOOKING FOR MARIJUANA! I MEAN CMON! NAZIS!!!


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12517936 - 05/06/10 06:48 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And I suppose you think they got those green cards from the green card tree.  The difference is a little more subtle than you seem to appreciate. One is following the law of the country he is enetering and showing the proper respect.  The other is a criminal.


Yeah, a petty criminal.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Oh yeah, and they are also different people with different DNA.


What does that have to do with anything?



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
There is no racial profiling requirement in the bill.  If you think there is would you please point it out to us.


I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

There is an obvious distinction between de jure and de facto law--there are plenty of things that officers get away with which they are not allowed to do; again, this bill just makes it easier for officers to racially profile humans that look Mexican.




Would you please in your bigoted fashion show us just exactly what a Mexican looks like.


WTF are you talking about?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Also please show us all how an illegal immigrant from Mexico is similar in appearance to an illegal immigrant from Poland since they are treated exactly equally under this law.


WTF are you talking about?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

That issue is somewhat intermingled with this one--IME, cops do anything they can to  step on peoples' constitutional rights, they generally do not give a fuck.


  Why do you hate cops, you anti-cop bigot?


I don't hate all cops, I just don't like the way many of them go about performing their duties.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If it wasn't for cops you would be my sex slave.


:gayflag:


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

That only makes it so that cops hawk over Mexicans until they slip, and break the tiniest little law, so that they have to show identification--this is called racial profiling.




You have convicted the cops before they even had a chance to act.


All I'm saying is that this law seems to encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans--I wouldn't be surprised if the rate of racial profiling by cops against Mexicans starts to rise in Arizona, would you?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Can you say fallacious prior restraint?


It's not fallacious, there is probable cause to believe that racial profiling against Mexicans might occur more frequently as a result of this bill being passed.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Not sure why you keep insisting that I'm ignoring facts, but it's really fucking retarded. :lol:

Let me repeat, these laws are just going to encourage police officers to watch over Mexican humans more than they watch over any other ethnicity--what strikes me as odd is that you're Mexican, and you show no sign that you are not OK with this. :confused:




Laws against securities fraud cause cops to look over white people's shoulders disproportionately.  Do you think we should get rid of them since they are obviously race based?


No, I think that cops should not look over white peoples' shoulders disproportionately, and instead pay attention to other, more relevant details of an individual before a security investigation is conducted on them.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Yeah, again, you accuse me of some made-up fantasy bullshit that you got from who-knows-where. :cuckoo:


  The only fantasy I see is from you who is convicted law enforcers of improper acts before they even have a chance to amake them.  You are making a prior argument that becase it is popssible for cops to abuse their opsition they will.


I didn't say that they will, I said that it is somewhat likely that they will--there is a huge difference between the two, and if you cannot understand and/or comprehend it, then that is just plain funny. :smirk:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12517941 - 05/06/10 06:49 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I can also make the exact same argument that you could possibly be a murderer and thus must be stopped now.  Get in the car.


If there was probable cause that I might be a murderer, then it would make sense to stop me--this really shouldn't be that hard to understand. :shrug:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Who cares if Mexico has the same type, or even harsher immigration laws? Nobody from the US is going to want to immigrate to Mexico anyways, I would think those laws are mostly there to punish people who enter Mexico from their southern border.




So what?  This merely points out the fact that the Mexican government actively supports the infiltration of our southern border.


I'm not sure how you gathered that from what I said there, care to explain?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I think we should allow exactly zero legal immigrants from Mexico until they change their official policy.  There are more than enough Domnicans and Poes to replace them.


Why should our immigration policy depend on their own policies?

Are you saying that there are more than enough Dominicans and Poes to replace Mexicans in the US?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I don't totally agree with current US immigration law, but I agree there is nothing inherently wrong with simple enforcement of existing law--it's how people go about this enforcement that can be controversial.




In my experience cops are much better people than the general population.  By far.


In my experience, there generally are good and bad people in basically every demographic--I have met a good amount of nice police officers who seemed like genuinely good people, but most of them aren't like that; nice people seem to be a rarity in all demographics.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

You've never had your rights stepped on by an officer, have you? :strokebeard:




Nope.  Because I am not a fucking stupid douche.  Are you?


What would being a stupid douche have to do with having your rights stepped on?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I'm of Mexican descent, and I don't have a problem with this law.


I am 100% Mexican (although I was born and raised here in the US), and I do have a problem with this law. :shrug:




That's pretty foolish.  How d you feel an]bout the fact that all these infiltartors have made you a suspect?  If they weren't coming over in wave after wave of greedy little sneaks you wouldn't be under suspicion by any rational person.  Or maybe it is just that you think we should let them all in.


You have an incredible amount of faith in police officers, it's really sort of funny. :lol:


I don't think we should just "let them all in", I think there could be a better way to solve this problem. These people come here for many different reasons, most of them come here just so they can make enough money to eat and feed their families--it's pretty much a life or death situation for them.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

You are a completely law abiding citizen? Do you use any drugs, speed on the freeway, bike on the wrong side of the road, spit on the sidewalk, J-walk across the street, or commit any other victimless crimes?




Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime.  We are all victims of it, including every single person who would like to come legally.


Our economy has also benefited from it in some ways.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

You have a camera, a recorder on your phone, and a lawyer? Good for you! :super:

Most people who have their rights stepped on by police don't have any of that shit.


  Most people who get hassled by the police fucking deserve it.  By far.


Why would you say that?



Quote:

No, actually, we do not any sort of responsibility. It is law enforcement's responsibility to protect our rights, but that's never going to happen in a country where police officers are allowed, and even encouraged to lie to citizens.


  Stupid drivel.  They get prosecuted for lying in court.  As far as what they tell you outside of that, well, tough shit.  You have the right to remain silent.  You should use it.  They even have to remind you of it, for some idiotic reason.


If you don't speak, and just ignore them, they usually consider it disrespectful, and give you a hard time and harass you. It doesn't matter if they can't lie to you in court, if they're able to lie to you in order to trick you into somehow admitting that you've committed a crime.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Wow, you're excusing the government for essentially breaking the law by trampling on peoples' rights, and putting the blame on the citizenry? Are you fucking retarded? :flowstone:




If your rights get trampled you have recourse.  You could actually make big money.  Go for it.


That's the only good thing about having your rights being trampled by asshole cops. :money:



Quote:

Therian said:
I thought of responding to this mentally impaired, hyper simplistic Mexicans post but why bother when Zappa concisely put it into perspective.


I guess you are just incapable of having a civilized discussion/debate without resorting to petty ad hominems. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12517954 - 05/06/10 06:51 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And I suppose you think they got those green cards from the green card tree.  The difference is a little more subtle than you seem to appreciate. One is following the law of the country he is enetering and showing the proper respect.  The other is a criminal.


Yeah, a petty criminal.




identity theft, fraud, these arent petty crimes




Quote:

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
There is no racial profiling requirement in the bill.  If you think there is would you please point it out to us.


I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




cant happen, mexican is a nationality, not a race, although La Raza
would like us to believe mexicans are the only 'race'


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12518009 - 05/06/10 07:02 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Thats a great point that people often mess up.  Mexican is not a race.  Mexico is a multi-ethnic nation, like all nations in the western hemisphere.  There are white mexicans, there are brown mexicans, there are black mexicans.  Most mexicans are somewhere between white and brown. 

If you are a citizen of mexico, you are mexican no matter what your race.  If you are a citizen of america you are american, no matter what your race.  Most hispanics in arizona are american, not mexican.

Hell, when I was growing up in arizona I would get harassed by hispanic cops because I dressed like a hippie and not a chollo.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12518018 - 05/06/10 07:04 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
identity theft, fraud, these arent petty crimes


Not all of them commit those crimes, do you have any source which shows how many of them actually do?



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




cant happen, mexican is a nationality, not a race...


How does this stop it from happening?



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...although La Raza would like us to believe mexicans are the only 'race'


I'm not sure what you're talking about, or where you get that idea--"Raza" is just a term some Hispanic people use for each other, similarly to how blacks say "nigga", or hippies say "brah".



Quote:

DieCommie said:
Thats a great point that people often mess up.  Mexican is not a race.  Mexico is a multi-ethnic nation, like all nations in the western hemisphere.  There are white mexicans, there are brown mexicans, there are black mexicans.  Most mexicans are somewhere between white and brown.


For some reason, it seems to be the brown ones who are more likely to be racially profiled.


 
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Hell, when I was growing up in arizona I would get harassed by hispanic cops because I dressed like a hippie and not a chollo.


I think that's sort of fucked up--some law enforcement officials in that area encourage the "chollo" stereotype. :nonono:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinedshow
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12518311 - 05/06/10 08:05 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Annapurna you are rediculous. Next time you post a topic please look into it. This is a topic for the big boys, run along.

H
Quote:

no doubt polls will show overwhelming public support for the AZ statute in all parts of the country...but all that means is that we are reverting to being an overtly racist society.. with AZ having passed what is by far the most racist legislation since the japanese internment...





OVERLY racist? lol wow. I guess it would look that way when we have a few people out there like you who point the racist finger to anyone non-liberal. The word is so overused now days by people like you that what the hell does it even mean anymore? your racist for being for it and racist for being against. stop.

For the second part of AZ being racist and all the people complaining about AZ passing this bill.  Do you know what Affirmative Action is??? der... der...


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid] * 1
    #12518319 - 05/06/10 08:06 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And I suppose you think they got those green cards from the green card tree.  The difference is a little more subtle than you seem to appreciate. One is following the law of the country he is enetering and showing the proper respect.  The other is a criminal.


Yeah, a petty criminal.

And what should we do with the petty criminal?  A little jail, a little confscation of his criminally procured gains and a nice ride to the coast of Antarctica. 


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Oh yeah, and they are also different people with different DNA.


What does that have to do with anything?

It was in response to this stupid statement you made:
"There is no difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant, except for the fact that legals have green cards."
It has to do with the fact that they are different people, not just different types of immigrants.  They have more differences than just their legal status.  Don't worry about it.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
There is no racial profiling requirement in the bill.  If you think there is would you please point it out to us.


I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.

Would you please point out the section of the bill which does that.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

There is an obvious distinction between de jure and de facto law--there are plenty of things that officers get away with which they are not allowed to do; again, this bill just makes it easier for officers to racially profile humans that look Mexican.




Would you please in your bigoted fashion show us just exactly what a Mexican looks like.


WTF are you talking about?

Show us what a Mexican looks like.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Also please show us all how an illegal immigrant from Mexico is similar in appearance to an illegal immigrant from Poland since they are treated exactly equally under this law.


WTF are you talking about?
In case your bigoted self didn't know it there is also a rather large population of illegal immigrants here from Europe and other places.  Yep, it's true.  They gotta go as well.  Why do you bigots always assume that all illegal entrants to this country are brown people?


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

That issue is somewhat intermingled with this one--IME, cops do anything they can to  step on peoples' constitutional rights, they generally do not give a fuck.


  Why do you hate cops, you anti-cop bigot?


I don't hate all cops, I just don't like the way many of them go about performing their duties.

I don't either, although my wording would change "many" to "some".



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If it wasn't for cops you would be my sex slave.


:gayflag:

I thought you were a woman, what with your aimless contentiousness.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

That only makes it so that cops hawk over Mexicans until they slip, and break the tiniest little law, so that they have to show identification--this is called racial profiling.




You have convicted the cops before they even had a chance to act.


All I'm saying is that this law seems to encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans--I wouldn't be surprised if the rate of racial profiling by cops against Mexicans starts to rise in Arizona, would you?

Yes.  I think it will make exactly zero difference.  You're just bigoted against cops.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Can you say fallacious prior restraint?


It's not fallacious, there is probable cause to believe that racial profiling against Mexicans might occur more frequently as a result of this bill being passed.

No, there isn't.




Not sure why you keep insisting that I'm ignoring facts, but it's really fucking retarded. :lol:

Let me repeat, these laws are just going to encourage police officers to watch over Mexican humans more than they watch over any other ethnicity--what strikes me as odd is that you're Mexican, and you show no sign that you are not OK with this. :confused:
You keep repeating a fantasy.  Not the fantasy that I am Mexican but that this is de facto going to encourage racial profiling. 
Quote:


Laws against securities fraud cause cops to look over white people's shoulders disproportionately.  Do you think we should get rid of them since they are obviously race based?


No, I think that cops should not look over white peoples' shoulders disproportionately, and instead pay attention to other, more relevant details of an individual before a security investigation is conducted on them.

But securities law encourages racial profiling, according to your model of thinking, which posits that just because a certain race is more likely to commit a crime any law prohibiting that crime is discriminatory.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Yeah, again, you accuse me of some made-up fantasy bullshit that you got from who-knows-where. :cuckoo:


  The only fantasy I see is from you who is convicted law enforcers of improper acts before they even have a chance to amake them.  You are making a prior argument that becase it is popssible for cops to abuse their opsition they will.


I didn't say that they will, I said that it is somewhat likely that they will--there is a huge difference between the two, and if you cannot understand and/or comprehend it, then that is just plain funny. :smirk:




So your whole premise for declaring this bill improper is that it is "somewhat likely" that it might be abused, in your bigoted opinion, by LEOs?  There is not a single law written anywhere that is not "somewhat likely" to be abused.  You have chopped your own argument into oblivion.  Death knell.


--------------------


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: dshow]
    #12518390 - 05/06/10 08:22 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dshow said:
Annapurna you are rediculous. Next time you post a topic please look into it. This is a topic for the big boys, run along.

H
Quote:

no doubt polls will show overwhelming public support for the AZ statute in all parts of the country...but all that means is that we are reverting to being an overtly racist society.. with AZ having passed what is by far the most racist legislation since the japanese internment...





OVERLY racist? lol wow. I guess it would look that way when we have a few people out there like you who point the racist finger to anyone non-liberal. The word is so overused now days by people like you that what the hell does it even mean anymore? your racist for being for it and racist for being against. stop.

For the second part of AZ being racist and all the people complaining about AZ passing this bill.  Do you know what Affirmative Action is??? der... der...




it says OVERTLY..not OVERLY..you moron...


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12518509 - 05/06/10 08:44 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I can also make the exact same argument that you could possibly be a murderer and thus must be stopped now.  Get in the car.


If there was probable cause that I might be a murderer, then it would make sense to stop me--this really shouldn't be that hard to understand. :shrug:

Why did you exclude what that was in response to?  WHY DID YOU CHOP THE PARAGRAPH TO EXCLUDE ESSENTIAL CONTENT?  I didn't expect that of you.  Others certainly.  You?  My respect for you has diminished.  I previously thought you were just weak.  Now I think you are weak and dishonest.  Here is the full paragraph:

Quote:

The only fantasy I see is from you who is convicted law enforcers of improper acts before they even have a chance to amake them.  You are making a prior argument that becase it is popssible for cops to abuse their opsition they will.  I can also make the exact same argument that you could possibly be a murderer and thus must be stopped now.  Get in the car.




Not good.




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Who cares if Mexico has the same type, or even harsher immigration laws? Nobody from the US is going to want to immigrate to Mexico anyways, I would think those laws are mostly there to punish people who enter Mexico from their southern border.




So what?  This merely points out the fact that the Mexican government actively supports the infiltration of our southern border.


I'm not sure how you gathered that from what I said there, care to explain?

It has nothing to do with what you said.  Are you not aware that the Mexican government actively supports the infiltration of our border?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I think we should allow exactly zero legal immigrants from Mexico until they change their official policy.  There are more than enough Domnicans and Poes to replace them.


Why should our immigration policy depend on their own policies?

Are you saying that there are more than enough Dominicans and Poes to replace Mexicans in the US?

Our immigration policy doesn't depend on their's.  It is to point out the hypocrisy of their president.

I have no desire to replace one country's illegals with another country's illegals.  I want to forbid all immigration, legal or otherwise, from Mexico until their government ceases actively subverting our laws.  Then we can replace their legal immigrants with legal immigrants from other countries.  First and foremost is NO ILLEGALS AT ALL.




Quote:


I don't totally agree with current US immigration law, but I agree there is nothing inherently wrong with simple enforcement of existing law--it's how people go about this enforcement that can be controversial.




In my experience cops are much better people than the general population.  By far.


In my experience, there generally are good and bad people in basically every demographic--I have met a good amount of nice police officers who seemed like genuinely good people, but most of them aren't like that; nice people seem to be a rarity in all demographics.

And I have found exactly the opposite.  That most cops are genuinely good people.  Nice?  I don't think they can be or should be.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

You've never had your rights stepped on by an officer, have you? :strokebeard:




Nope.  Because I am not a fucking stupid douche.  Are you?


What would being a stupid douche have to do with having your rights stepped on?

Almost everything. 



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I'm of Mexican descent, and I don't have a problem with this law.


I am 100% Mexican (although I was born and raised here in the US), and I do have a problem with this law. :shrug:




That isn't me


Quote:


That's pretty foolish.  How d you feel an]bout the fact that all these infiltartors have made you a suspect?  If they weren't coming over in wave after wave of greedy little sneaks you wouldn't be under suspicion by any rational person.  Or maybe it is just that you think we should let them all in.


You have an incredible amount of faith in police officers, it's really sort of funny. :lol:

It is my experience.  In all of my personal encounters with police they have been 100% respectful of my rights.  Even when they arrested me.



I don't think we should just "let them all in", I think there could be a better way to solve this problem. These people come here for many different reasons, most of them come here just so they can make enough money to eat and feed their families--it's pretty much a life or death situation for them.

Maybethey should stay the fuck home and fix their own shitholes.  Has it occurred to you that because the most ambitious people are abdicating from their own countries they are doing even more damage to Mexico than to the US?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

You are a completely law abiding citizen? Do you use any drugs, speed on the freeway, bike on the wrong side of the road, spit on the sidewalk, J-walk across the street, or commit any other victimless crimes?




Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime.  We are all victims of it, including every single person who would like to come legally.


Our economy has also benefited from it in some ways.

Nowhere near enough to overcome the damage.  Not even close.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

You have a camera, a recorder on your phone, and a lawyer? Good for you! :super:

Most people who have their rights stepped on by police don't have any of that shit.


  Most people who get hassled by the police fucking deserve it.  By far.


Why would you say that?

Because they are stupid douches who provoke them or break the law.  You do realize that if you break the law you should be hassled by the police, right?  Also arrested.  Sheesh. 



Quote:

No, actually, we do not any sort of responsibility. It is law enforcement's responsibility to protect our rights, but that's never going to happen in a country where police officers are allowed, and even encouraged to lie to citizens.


  Stupid drivel.  They get prosecuted for lying in court.  As far as what they tell you outside of that, well, tough shit.  You have the right to remain silent.  You should use it.  They even have to remind you of it, for some idiotic reason.


If you don't speak, and just ignore them, they usually consider it disrespectful, and give you a hard time and harass you. It doesn't matter if they can't lie to you in court, if they're able to lie to you in order to trick you into somehow admitting that you've committed a crime.

Only court matters.  You have the right to remain silent. 



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Wow, you're excusing the government for essentially breaking the law by trampling on peoples' rights, and putting the blame on the citizenry? Are you fucking retarded? :flowstone:




If your rights get trampled you have recourse.  You could actually make big money.  Go for it.


That's the only good thing about having your rights being trampled by asshole cops. :money:

Good luck.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12518518 - 05/06/10 08:46 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

dshow said:
Annapurna you are rediculous. Next time you post a topic please look into it. This is a topic for the big boys, run along.

H
Quote:

no doubt polls will show overwhelming public support for the AZ statute in all parts of the country...but all that means is that we are reverting to being an overtly racist society.. with AZ having passed what is by far the most racist legislation since the japanese internment...





OVERLY racist? lol wow. I guess it would look that way when we have a few people out there like you who point the racist finger to anyone non-liberal. The word is so overused now days by people like you that what the hell does it even mean anymore? your racist for being for it and racist for being against. stop.

For the second part of AZ being racist and all the people complaining about AZ passing this bill.  Do you know what Affirmative Action is??? der... der...




it says OVERTLY..not OVERLY..you moron...




Unfortunately for you his misperception of what you wrote has more validity than what you did write.  Also

:banbanban:


--------------------


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: dshow]
    #12518519 - 05/06/10 08:47 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dshow said:
For the second part of AZ being racist and all the people complaining about AZ passing this bill.  Do you know what Affirmative Action is??? der... der...



Affirmative Action is a good point that I didn't think of. It is obviously one of the most racist things in America. Good point


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12518596 - 05/06/10 09:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
identity theft, fraud, these arent petty crimes


Not all of them commit those crimes, do you have any source which shows how many of them actually do?




100% of them commit fraud when they enter illegally.  It is a fraudulent act.  100% of them who get jobs on the books are also committing fraud and almost all are committing identity theft when they produce a false Soc Sec number.  Any that work off the books commit tax evasion.
Quote:

 



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




cant happen, mexican is a nationality, not a race...


How does this stop it from happening?


 

It doesn't because there is nothing for it to stop.
Quote:




Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...although La Raza would like us to believe mexicans are the only 'race'


I'm not sure what you're talking about, or where you get that idea--"Raza" is just a term some Hispanic people use for each other, similarly to how blacks say "nigga", or hippies say "brah".




Is this a joke?  Do you really not know what La Raza is?  If that is the case you have zero business opining on any ,atters regarding Mexican immigration, legal or not.

Quote:



Quote:

DieCommie said:
Thats a great point that people often mess up.  Mexican is not a race.  Mexico is a multi-ethnic nation, like all nations in the western hemisphere.  There are white mexicans, there are brown mexicans, there are black mexicans.  Most mexicans are somewhere between white and brown.


For some reason, it seems to be the brown ones who are more likely to be racially profiled.




So you say.  Pris should be nervous, then.  Somehow he doesn't seem to be.
Quote:




 
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Hell, when I was growing up in arizona I would get harassed by hispanic cops because I dressed like a hippie and not a chollo.


I think that's sort of fucked up--some law enforcement officials in that area encourage the "chollo" stereotype. :nonono:




And some cops around here know that a white boy in a car in Washington Heights is a suspect.  And they're right.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12518615 - 05/06/10 09:04 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Thats a great point that people often mess up.  Mexican is not a race.  Mexico is a multi-ethnic nation, like all nations in the western hemisphere.  There are white mexicans, there are brown mexicans, there are black mexicans.  Most mexicans are somewhere between white and brown.


For some reason, it seems to be the brown ones who are more likely to be racially profiled.






Youre just making shit up.


Edited by DieCommie (05/06/10 09:12 PM)


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12518651 - 05/06/10 09:11 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

it says OVERTLY..not OVERLY..you moron...


  missed the "T" but get my point?


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12519114 - 05/06/10 10:30 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
identity theft, fraud, these arent petty crimes


Not all of them commit those crimes, do you have any source which shows how many of them actually do?




do you have any source that shows how many dont?

they're illegals, they dont stand up and exclaim that they have stolen
people's identity in order to further their cause, seems that identity
theft is a fucking felony or some shit



Quote:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




cant happen, mexican is a nationality, not a race...


How does this stop it from happening?




because you cant racially profile a nationality, can I be profiled as an
american, americans come in a multitude of colors, even hispanics come
in a variety of colors and many hispanics are american

Quote:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...although La Raza would like us to believe mexicans are the only 'race'


I'm not sure what you're talking about, or where you get that idea--"Raza" is just a term some Hispanic people use for each other, similarly to how blacks say "nigga", or hippies say "brah".






ok

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Raza
In the Spanish language the term La Raza literally means "the race"



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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12519561 - 05/06/10 11:43 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

lol @ this is are land


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: DieCommie]
    #12519621 - 05/06/10 11:56 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

that it am!


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12523899 - 05/07/10 09:22 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Yeah, a petty criminal.




And what should we do with the petty criminal?  A little jail, a little confscation of his criminally procured gains and a nice ride to the coast of Antarctica.


You can't be serious. :picard:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

What does that have to do with anything?




It was in response to this stupid statement you made:
"There is no difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant, except for the fact that legals have green cards."
It has to do with the fact that they are different people, not just different types of immigrants.  They have more differences than just their legal status.  Don't worry about it.



Yes, and I'm asking you what those differences have to do with anything--do you support racial segregation or something?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




Would you please point out the section of the bill which does that.



There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

There is an obvious distinction between de jure and de facto law--there are plenty of things that officers get away with which they are not allowed to do; again, this bill just makes it easier for officers to racially profile humans that look Mexican.




Would you please in your bigoted fashion show us just exactly what a Mexican looks like.


WTF are you talking about?

Show us what a Mexican looks like.


It doesn't matter what I think a Mexican looks/behaves like, if a law enforcement officer believes that a certain person is Mexican, and the said officer wants to abuse his/her power, then s/he may racially profile that person.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

WTF are you talking about?



In case your bigoted self didn't know it there is also a rather large population of illegal immigrants here from Europe and other places. Yep, it's true.  They gotta go as well.  Why do you bigots always assume that all illegal entrants to this country are brown people?


The fact that AZ, a state on the US/Mexican border, passed this law shows that it was made in response to immigrants coming from Mexico.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I don't hate all cops, I just don't like the way many of them go about performing their duties.




I don't either, although my wording would change "many" to "some".


I can't imagine why--you've never watched the TV show "Cops", have you? :lol:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

If it wasn't for cops you would be my sex slave.


:gayflag:

Quote:

I thought you were a woman, what with your aimless contentiousness.





Nice save. :congrats:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

All I'm saying is that this law seems to encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans--I wouldn't be surprised if the rate of racial profiling by cops against Mexicans starts to rise in Arizona, would you?




Yes.  I think it will make exactly zero difference.  You're just bigoted against cops.


Why would you be surprised, what, to you, would be surprising about that?

I already said that I'm not bigoted against cops--just like you, I've met several respectful cops who seemed like good people. Like in any demographic, the good ones are rarer than the bad ones.


By your logic, I am bigoted against every group since I don't like most members of each group.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

It's not fallacious, there is probable cause to believe that racial profiling against Mexicans might occur more frequently as a result of this bill being passed.




No, there isn't.


Yes there is, and I've already explained why--it's not like a bill that's in support of racial profiling is going to explicitly state its goal. This bill was made in reaction to the escalating violence coming form Mexico around the US/Mexico border, and thus, its aim is mainly to get rid of as many of these people from our borders as possible.

From this, it is logical to assume that this bill could potentially increase the incidence of racial profiling by law enforcement officials against Mexicans.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Let me repeat, these laws are just going to encourage police officers to watch over Mexican humans more than they watch over any other ethnicity--what strikes me as odd is that you're Mexican, and you show no sign that you are not OK with this. :confused:



Quote:

You keep repeating a fantasy.  Not the fantasy that I am Mexican but that this is de facto going to encourage racial profiling.





That was in response to Simplicitry--you still haven't shown me why you would be surprised if racial profiling increases as a result of this bill.

 

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

No, I think that cops should not look over white peoples' shoulders disproportionately, and instead pay attention to other, more relevant details of an individual before a security investigation is conducted on them.




But securities law encourages racial profiling, according to your model of thinking, which posits that just because a certain race is more likely to commit a crime any law prohibiting that crime is discriminatory.


How is that my model of thinking? There are rich people of every race, and to me it doesn't make sense to go after only white people when investigating securities fraud.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I didn't say that they will, I said that it is somewhat likely that they will--there is a huge difference between the two, and if you cannot understand and/or comprehend it, then that is just plain funny. :smirk:




So your whole premise for declaring this bill improper is that it is "somewhat likely" that it might be abused, in your bigoted opinion, by LEOs?  There is not a single law written anywhere that is not "somewhat likely" to be abused.  You have chopped your own argument into oblivion.  Death knell.


Was this new law even necessary? I bet that this law isn't going to decrease immigration rates, it seems like it was just made to show the rest of the country where they stand on the issue--it's pure politics.


I'm not sure that the bill itself is improper, rather, the entire message that passing this bill conveys is what's important--as usual, you are missing the bigger picture.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12524012 - 05/07/10 09:44 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

If there was probable cause that I might be a murderer, then it would make sense to stop me--this really shouldn't be that hard to understand. :shrug:




Why did you exclude what that was in response to?  WHY DID YOU CHOP THE PARAGRAPH TO EXCLUDE ESSENTIAL CONTENT?  I didn't expect that of you.  Others certainly.  You?  My respect for you has diminished.  I previously thought you were just weak.  Now I think you are weak and dishonest.


I chopped that part because it was just unnecessary rhetoric--the last two sentences made your point well enough. 



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Here is the full paragraph:

Quote:

The only fantasy I see is from you who is convicted law enforcers of improper acts before they even have a chance to amake them.  You are making a prior argument that becase it is popssible for cops to abuse their opsition they will.  I can also make the exact same argument that you could possibly be a murderer and thus must be stopped now.  Get in the car.




Not good.


You keep ignoring that, first of all, I have not "convicted" LEOs of improper acts, I'm just noting the likelihood that they may commit those said acts, and second of all, that I have probably cause to do so.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

So what?  This merely points out the fact that the Mexican government actively supports the infiltration of our southern border.


I'm not sure how you gathered that from what I said there, care to explain?




It has nothing to do with what you said.  Are you not aware that the Mexican government actively supports the infiltration of our border?


Source?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Why should our immigration policy depend on their own policies?

Are you saying that there are more than enough Dominicans and Poes to replace Mexicans in the US?




Our immigration policy doesn't depend on their's.  It is to point out the hypocrisy of their president.

I have no desire to replace one country's illegals with another country's illegals.  I want to forbid all immigration, legal or otherwise, from Mexico until their government ceases actively subverting our laws.  Then we can replace their legal immigrants with legal immigrants from other countries.  First and foremost is NO ILLEGALS AT ALL.



You're saying that their government actively subverts our laws, when in reality, it is independent parties whom are not endorsed by their government that crossing our border--show me that the Mexican government actively subverts our laws.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

]In my experience, there generally are good and bad people in basically every demographic--I have met a good amount of nice police officers who seemed like genuinely good people, but most of them aren't like that; nice people seem to be a rarity in all demographics.




And I have found exactly the opposite.  That most cops are genuinely good people.  Nice?  I don't think they can be or should be.



It's probably because you're rich, cops tend to be more harsh towards poor people, whether or not they've committed a crime--how's that for convicting people of improper acts before they even make them? :owned:


Why don't you think police officers should be nice?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

What would being a stupid douche have to do with having your rights stepped on?




Almost everything.


Great, you're in support douches having less rights than non-douches--so much for equal rights. :rolleyes: 



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I'm of Mexican descent, and I don't have a problem with this law.


I am 100% Mexican (although I was born and raised here in the US), and I do have a problem with this law. :shrug:




That isn't me


Yeah, that was Simplicitry.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

You have an incredible amount of faith in police officers, it's really sort of funny. :lol:




It is my experience.  In all of my personal encounters with police they have been 100% respectful of my rights.  Even when they arrested me.


Maybe they could just tell that you were intelligent and knew your rights well enough, they usually trample on, like you say, douche's rights because it's easier for them to do so, I guess. :shrug:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I don't think we should just "let them all in", I think there could be a better way to solve this problem. These people come here for many different reasons, most of them come here just so they can make enough money to eat and feed their families--it's pretty much a life or death situation for them.




Maybethey should stay the fuck home and fix their own shitholes.  Has it occurred to you that because the most ambitious people are abdicating from their own countries they are doing even more damage to Mexico than to the US?


Maybe they can't fix their own shitholes, and don't give a shit about their government. :shrug2:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Our economy has also benefited from it in some ways.




Nowhere near enough to overcome the damage.  Not even close.


Really? Think about all the things that have been made possible because of Mexican immigration--a boom in agriculture, construction, fast-food, house-cleaning, and other such industries. They wouldn't look nearly the same without illegal Mexican immigrants.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Why would you say that?




Because they are stupid douches who provoke them or break the law.


Bullshit, many cops seek out people to bother and harass, not the other way around.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You do realize that if you break the law you should be hassled by the police, right?  Also arrested.  Sheesh.



I disagree with pretty much every law I break--civil disobedience much? :ghandi: 



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

]If you don't speak, and just ignore them, they usually consider it disrespectful, and give you a hard time and harass you. It doesn't matter if they can't lie to you in court, if they're able to lie to you in order to trick you into somehow admitting that you've committed a crime.




Only court matters.  You have the right to remain silent.


In the end, only court matters, but on the street, the police are the ones who make the call; get in a bad relationship with them, and you'll see yourself going to court more often, regardless of whether or not you'll be ultimately convicted of the charge. 



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
That's the only good thing about having your rights being trampled by asshole cops. :money:

Good luck.


See you on Wall Street. :gonz:


--------------------
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fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12524064 - 05/07/10 09:53 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Not all of them commit those crimes, do you have any source which shows how many of them actually do?




100% of them commit fraud when they enter illegally.  It is a fraudulent act.  100% of them who get jobs on the books are also committing fraud and almost all are committing identity theft when they produce a false Soc Sec number.  Any that work off the books commit tax evasion.


I thought that most of them just commit tax evasion, and work under the table as day-laborers or some other such thing. :shrug2:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

cant happen, mexican is a nationality, not a race...


How does this stop it from happening?


 

It doesn't because there is nothing for it to stop.


Um, what about racial profiling, maybe? :justdontknow:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I'm not sure what you're talking about, or where you get that idea--"Raza" is just a term some Hispanic people use for each other, similarly to how blacks say "nigga", or hippies say "brah".




Is this a joke?  Do you really not know what La Raza is?  If that is the case you have zero business opining on any ,atters regarding Mexican immigration, legal or not.


I just looked at the Wikipedia page on it--it almost seems like you think there is a conspiracy going on here.


Being Mexican, I've heard the term "Raza" being thrown around between Hispanics in much the same way that "nigga" is thrown around between blacks, so that's my only previous exposure to the term--I didn't know there was a major history behind it. :shrug:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

For some reason, it seems to be the brown ones who are more likely to be racially profiled.




So you say.  Pris should be nervous, then.  Somehow he doesn't seem to be.


I seriously doubt that Pris is brown. :smirk:


 
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I think that's sort of fucked up--some law enforcement officials in that area encourage the "chollo" stereotype. :nonono:




And some cops around here know that a white boy in a car in Washington Heights is a suspect.  And they're right.


I see. You only care if cops are convicted of an act before they commit it, but couldn't give less of a shit if this happens to an average Joe. :bored:



Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Thats a great point that people often mess up.  Mexican is not a race.  Mexico is a multi-ethnic nation, like all nations in the western hemisphere.  There are white mexicans, there are brown mexicans, there are black mexicans.  Most mexicans are somewhere between white and brown.


For some reason, it seems to be the brown ones who are more likely to be racially profiled.






Youre just making shit up.


You really think so, eh?



Quote:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




cant happen, mexican is a nationality, not a race...


How does this stop it from happening?




because you cant racially profile a nationality, can I be profiled as an
american, americans come in a multitude of colors, even hispanics come
in a variety of colors and many hispanics are american


Hispanics from the Nation of Mexico are profiled by their common appearance, much like any other people from any other nation can be grouped by their common appearance.



Quote:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...although La Raza would like us to believe mexicans are the only 'race'


I'm not sure what you're talking about, or where you get that idea--"Raza" is just a term some Hispanic people use for each other, similarly to how blacks say "nigga", or hippies say "brah".






ok

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Raza
In the Spanish language the term La Raza literally means "the race"




I know it means "the race", but I think you're taking that term a little too seriously--most Hispanics I've met don't literally believe that they are the race...:rolleyes:


--------------------
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fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12524261 - 05/07/10 10:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.





This is the most ignorant argument of all, and it's the argument you've focused on the most. Did it ever occur to you that racist police officers who had no respect for peoples constitutional rights were already racially profiling people. As long as we have racists cops who don't respect constitutional rights there will always be racial profiling in spite of this bill.

What you really have to ask yourself is, Where is racial profiling in the bill? You already answered, it isn't. What about rouge officers who racially profile people? They existed before this bill passed and subjected people to their racist, unconstitutional behavior before this bill as well. 

You have a legitimate concern about an issue that has nothing to do with enforcing our immigration laws. And for the record people of all different backgrounds have their rights trampled by law enforcement in the current state of affairs we find ourselves in. Start a thread on it.


Simply put a racist cop who wants to racially profile already had powers he could abuse to do so. This law doesn't change that. Mostly because this laws focus was illegal immigration, not rouge police.

I would only agree that we need to pass legislation that takes care of such police officers

These are the facts that remain.

What the United States Supreme Court held in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, was that a state could make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself (i.e., tell the officer his name and address) when lawfully detained for criminal activity. Note that the Supreme Court did NOT say that any kind of identification papers could be required. There is no law in the United States requiring everybody to carry ID, at least not yet.

You have to be committing a criminal activity or operating a motor vehicle to be required by law to show your identification.

So no they can't shake down Mexicans based on the ethnicity.

This applies to whites, Asians, blacks and Hispanics alike

The Bill http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Where was the part about people being required to have ID on that all time
Where's the part about road stops checking peoples ID's
There not there. You apparently just choose to make things up

This is a little thing call fact that many people like to over look because when it contradicts there view point.


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


Edited by Simplicitry (05/07/10 10:39 PM)


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12524759 - 05/08/10 12:27 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Yeah, a petty criminal.




And what should we do with the petty criminal?  A little jail, a little confscation of his criminally procured gains and a nice ride to the coast of Antarctica.


You can't be serious. :picard:

100%.  Do you think he should get to keep his ill gotten gains?  Get off scot free?  Bussed right back to the nearest border crossing over which he wil hop yet again?.  No, get out and stay out.  I believe repeat border jumping becomes a felony, by the way.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

What does that have to do with anything?




It was in response to this stupid statement you made:
"There is no difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant, except for the fact that legals have green cards."
It has to do with the fact that they are different people, not just different types of immigrants.  They have more differences than just their legal status.  Don't worry about it.



Yes, and I'm asking you what those differences have to do with anything--do you support racial segregation or something?

:flowstone:Do I really have to point out that some of them are also violent criminals, drive without licenses and insurance, are pregnant or ill and come just to suck services, are from Eastern Europe or any other place not Mexico?


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




Would you please point out the section of the bill which does that.



There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.
Then you are clearly against all laws, because they can all be abused.  Which is of course an idiotic position to take.




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

There is an obvious distinction between de jure and de facto law--there are plenty of things that officers get away with which they are not allowed to do; again, this bill just makes it easier for officers to racially profile humans that look Mexican.




Would you please in your bigoted fashion show us just exactly what a Mexican looks like.


WTF are you talking about?

Figure it out, bigot.
Show us what a Mexican looks like.


It doesn't matter what I think a Mexican looks/behaves like, if a law enforcement officer believes that a certain person is Mexican, and the said officer wants to abuse his/her power, then s/he may racially profile that person.

Except that is expressly forbidden.  Do you know anything at all about this bill?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

WTF are you talking about?



In case your bigoted self didn't know it there is also a rather large population of illegal immigrants here from Europe and other places. Yep, it's true.  They gotta go as well.  Why do you bigots always assume that all illegal entrants to this country are brown people?


The fact that AZ, a state on the US/Mexican border, passed this law shows that it was made in response to immigrants coming from Mexico.

Oh does it?  Maybe it just shows that Arizona has a particularly huge problem with illegal immigrants, some of whom happen to be from Mexico, and that the federal government has disgracefully abdicated its responsibility to police our borders.  Where they come from is of no relevance.  Nothng in the law singles out Mexicans.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I don't hate all cops, I just don't like the way many of them go about performing their duties.




I don't either, although my wording would change "many" to "some".


I can't imagine why--you've never watched the TV show "Cops", have you? :lol:

I don't see any abuse on COPS



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

If it wasn't for cops you would be my sex slave.


:gayflag:

Quote:

I thought you were a woman, what with your aimless contentiousness.





Nice save. :congrats:

Thank you.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

All I'm saying is that this law seems to encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans--I wouldn't be surprised if the rate of racial profiling by cops against Mexicans starts to rise in Arizona, would you?




Yes.  I think it will make exactly zero difference.  You're just bigoted against cops.


Why would you be surprised, what, to you, would be surprising about that?

Where did I express surprise that you were bigoted against cops?

I already said that I'm not bigoted against cops--just like you, I've met several respectful cops who seemed like good people. Like in any demographic, the good ones are rarer than the bad ones.

You've said it but then you repeat your bigotry.


By your logic, I am bigoted against every group since I don't like most members of each group.

That's pretty pitiful and explains a lot.  Like your pointless contentiousness.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

It's not fallacious, there is probable cause to believe that racial profiling against Mexicans might occur more frequently as a result of this bill being passed.




No, there isn't.


Yes there is, and I've already explained why--it's not like a bill that's in support of racial profiling is going to explicitly state its goal. This bill was made in reaction to the escalating violence coming form Mexico around the US/Mexico border, and thus, its aim is mainly to get rid of as many of these people from our borders as possible.

You've had made assertions that can be applied to any law ever written.  I really don't care how many times you say the same stupid shit.  It doesn't get any more accurate.  And shouldn't the fucking federal government be doing this already, since there have been identical federal laws on the books for decades?

From this, it is logical to assume that this bill could potentially increase the incidence of racial profiling by law enforcement officials against Mexicans.

Any law could potentially be abused.  That is no reason not to pass laws.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Let me repeat, these laws are just going to encourage police officers to watch over Mexican humans more than they watch over any other ethnicity--what strikes me as odd is that you're Mexican, and you show no sign that you are not OK with this. :confused:



Quote:

You keep repeating a fantasy.  Not the fantasy that I am Mexican but that this is de facto going to encourage racial profiling.





That was in response to Simplicitry--you still haven't shown me why you would be surprised if racial profiling increases as a result of this bill.

Because, yet again, it is expressly forbidden.

 

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

No, I think that cops should not look over white peoples' shoulders disproportionately, and instead pay attention to other, more relevant details of an individual before a security investigation is conducted on them.




But securities law encourages racial profiling, according to your model of thinking, which posits that just because a certain race is more likely to commit a crime any law prohibiting that crime is discriminatory.


How is that my model of thinking? There are rich people of every race, and to me it doesn't make sense to go after only white people when investigating securities fraud.

Your model of thinking seems to be that if a particular race is more likely to violate a certain law then that law is de facto racist and an invitation for abuse on racial grounds.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I didn't say that they will, I said that it is somewhat likely that they will--there is a huge difference between the two, and if you cannot understand and/or comprehend it, then that is just plain funny. :smirk:




So your whole premise for declaring this bill improper is that it is "somewhat likely" that it might be abused, in your bigoted opinion, by LEOs?  There is not a single law written anywhere that is not "somewhat likely" to be abused.  You have chopped your own argument into oblivion.  Death knell.


Was this new law even necessary? I bet that this law isn't going to decrease immigration rates, it seems like it was just made to show the rest of the country where they stand on the issue--it's pure politics.

It was necessary because it charged the Arizona law enforcement agencies to do only that which the federal government was already responsible to perform but refused to.  The state of Arizona got sick and tired of waiting for the feds to do what they are supposed to  and decided they woud damn well do it themselves, then.


I'm not sure that the bill itself is improper, rather, the entire message that passing this bill conveys is what's important--as usual, you are missing the bigger picture.




No.  That is not what's important.  What's important is to stem the horribly debilitory tide of law breaking assholes who the federal government has refused to deal with


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12526381 - 05/08/10 11:09 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Pris should be nervous, then.  Somehow he doesn't seem to be.


I seriously doubt that Pris is brown.




I have darker skin than you, I was stopped once when I was about 17-18
while walking with a friend, he was creek/seminole, when the cop started
asking us questions it was in spanish, my uncle was denied several jobs
because he didnt speak spanish even though he looked like a mexican

Quote:

I know it means "the race", but I think you're taking that term a little too seriously--most Hispanics I've met don't literally believe that they are the race...:rolleyes:




it's no different than when blacks call each other nigger, sure, it's
not a racist term when they decide it's not, but I know many blacks that
see it as racist regardless of who uses it

"For the race everything, outside the race nothing"


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12538948 - 05/10/10 08:35 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Poid said:There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.





This is the most ignorant argument of all, and it's the argument you've focused on the most. Did it ever occur to you that racist police officers who had no respect for peoples constitutional rights were already racially profiling people. As long as we have racists cops who don't respect constitutional rights there will always be racial profiling in spite of this bill.

What you really have to ask yourself is, Where is racial profiling in the bill? You already answered, it isn't. What about rouge officers who racially profile people? They existed before this bill passed and subjected people to their racist, unconstitutional behavior before this bill as well. 

You have a legitimate concern about an issue that has nothing to do with enforcing our immigration laws. And for the record people of all different backgrounds have their rights trampled by law enforcement in the current state of affairs we find ourselves in. Start a thread on it.


Simply put a racist cop who wants to racially profile already had powers he could abuse to do so. This law doesn't change that. Mostly because this laws focus was illegal immigration, not rouge police.

I would only agree that we need to pass legislation that takes care of such police officers

These are the facts that remain.

What the United States Supreme Court held in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, was that a state could make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself (i.e., tell the officer his name and address) when lawfully detained for criminal activity. Note that the Supreme Court did NOT say that any kind of identification papers could be required. There is no law in the United States requiring everybody to carry ID, at least not yet.

You have to be committing a criminal activity or operating a motor vehicle to be required by law to show your identification.

So no they can't shake down Mexicans based on the ethnicity.

This applies to whites, Asians, blacks and Hispanics alike

The Bill http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Where was the part about people being required to have ID on that all time
Where's the part about road stops checking peoples ID's
There not there. You apparently just choose to make things up

This is a little thing call fact that many people like to over look because when it contradicts there view point.




Hey c'mon, no response? It wouldn't be because you don't have a valid rebuttle would it?


--------------------

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I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12541727 - 05/11/10 08:54 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Hey c'mon, no response? It wouldn't be because you don't have a valid rebuttle would it?




You know..... I happen to think Poid is close to the lamest poster in this forum. It's sad that he posts here.

However, you made your post at Fri May 07 2010 10:32 PM.

His last post on the site was at Fri May 07 2010 10:02 PM.

While I can't say for certain he hasn't been here since then, it at least appears he has not. In which case he hasn't even seen your post, much less formulated a rebuttal.

Besides..... please don't encourage him. Maybe he'll just go away and we can avoid being subjected to his drivel.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #12552056 - 05/12/10 11:39 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Simplicitry said:
Hey c'mon, no response? It wouldn't be because you don't have a valid rebuttle would it?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You know..... I happen to think Poid is close to the lamest poster in this forum. It's sad that he posts here.

However, you made your post at Fri May 07 2010 10:32 PM.

His last post on the site was at Fri May 07 2010 10:02 PM.

While I can't say for certain he hasn't been here since then, it at least appears he has not. In which case he hasn't even seen your post, much less formulated a rebuttal.

Besides..... please don't encourage him. Maybe he'll just go away and we can avoid being subjected to his drivel.

Yes Yes... Carry on now.. thats a good pig


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: dshow] * 2
    #12553718 - 05/13/10 06:59 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

>  I happen to think Poid is close to the lamest poster in this forum.

Please leave the personal attacks elsewhere.


--------------------
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Seuss]
    #12619967 - 05/24/10 02:51 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Poid said:There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.





This is the most ignorant argument of all, and it's the argument you've focused on the most. Did it ever occur to you that racist police officers who had no respect for peoples constitutional rights were already racially profiling people.


Yes it did.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
As long as we have racists cops who don't respect constitutional rights there will always be racial profiling in spite of this bill.


Yes there will, what is your point?



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
What you really have to ask yourself is, Where is racial profiling in the bill? You already answered, it isn't. What about rouge officers who racially profile people? They existed before this bill passed and subjected people to their racist, unconstitutional behavior before this bill as well.


I'm still waiting for your point. :shrug:


 
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
You have a legitimate concern about an issue that has nothing to do with enforcing our immigration laws.


Only an idiot cannot see how immigration laws and racial profiling can sometimes go hand in hand.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
And for the record people of all different backgrounds have their rights trampled by law enforcement in the current state of affairs we find ourselves in.


Yes that is quite obvious, but what isn't is your point.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Simply put a racist cop who wants to racially profile already had powers he could abuse to do so. This law doesn't change that.


This law encourages police officers to step up on immigration law enforcement, which could potentially result in racial profiling.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
So no they can't shake down Mexicans based on the ethnicity.


Yeah, no fucking shit--do you even know what racial profiling is? :what:

Police officers who racially profile people do not put those said people under arrest for being black, Mexican, or whatever, because obviously, it is not a crime to be black, Mexican, or whatever other race. Racial profiling, put simply, is when a police officer treats a person unfairly based on their race--an example of this would be a police officer detaining a person on suspicion of a crime due to their race (when this occurs, the police officer usually makes some sort of lame excuse to detain the person).



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
This applies to whites, Asians, blacks and Hispanics alike


So the fact that Arizona borders Mexico doesn't at all give you a hint that this law may be focusing more on Mexicans than any other race/ethnicity/nationality? :strokebeard:



Quote:

Simplicitry said:Where was the part about people being required to have ID on that all time
Where's the part about road stops checking peoples ID's
There not there. You apparently just choose to make things up


I never made any of that shit up, stop putting words in my mouth.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12620081 - 05/24/10 03:17 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

You can't be serious. :picard:




100%.  Do you think he should get to keep his ill gotten gains?  Get off scot free?  Bussed right back to the nearest border crossing over which he wil hop yet again?.  No, get out and stay out.  I believe repeat border jumping becomes a felony, by the way.


Since when are felons shipped out to the coast of Antarctica? :snowman:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Yes, and I'm asking you what those differences have to do with anything--do you support racial segregation or something?




:flowstone:Do I really have to point out that some of them are also violent criminals, drive without licenses and insurance, are pregnant or ill and come just to suck services, are from Eastern Europe or any other place not Mexico?


Some legal immigrants are like that, too. :shrug:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.



Then you are clearly against all laws, because they can all be abused.  Which is of course an idiotic position to take.



I am not totally against the law itself, I'm mostly worried that it will be interpreted and implemented in unethical ways.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

It doesn't matter what I think a Mexican looks/behaves like, if a law enforcement officer believes that a certain person is Mexican, and the said officer wants to abuse his/her power, then s/he may racially profile that person.




Except that is expressly forbidden.  Do you know anything at all about this bill?


Racial profiling is always expressly forbidden, but it still occurs--do you know anything at all about how cops get away with doing it?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The fact that AZ, a state on the US/Mexican border, passed this law shows that it was made in response to immigrants coming from Mexico.


Oh does it?  Maybe it just shows that Arizona has a particularly huge problem with illegal immigrants, some of whom...


Most of whom.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
...happen to be from Mexico, and that the federal government has disgracefully abdicated its responsibility to police our borders.  Where they come from is of no relevance.  Nothng in the law singles out Mexicans.


I never said it did.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I don't hate all cops, I just don't like the way many of them go about performing their duties.




I don't either, although my wording would change "many" to "some".


I can't imagine why--you've never watched the TV show "Cops", have you? :lol:

I don't see any abuse on COPS


I see nothing but abuse.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

All I'm saying is that this law seems to encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans--I wouldn't be surprised if the rate of racial profiling by cops against Mexicans starts to rise in Arizona, would you?




Yes.  I think it will make exactly zero difference.  You're just bigoted against cops.


Why would you be surprised, what, to you, would be surprising about that?

Where did I express surprise that you were bigoted against cops?

I already said that I'm not bigoted against cops--just like you, I've met several respectful cops who seemed like good people. Like in any demographic, the good ones are rarer than the bad ones.

You've said it but then you repeat your bigotry.


I'm not a bigot, so I don't know what you're talking about.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

From this, it is logical to assume that this bill could potentially increase the incidence of racial profiling by law enforcement officials against Mexicans.




Any law could potentially be abused.  That is no reason not to pass laws.


Some laws have more potential than others to be abused.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Let me repeat, these laws are just going to encourage police officers to watch over Mexican humans more than they watch over any other ethnicity--what strikes me as odd is that you're Mexican, and you show no sign that you are not OK with this. :confused:



Quote:

You keep repeating a fantasy.  Not the fantasy that I am Mexican but that this is de facto going to encourage racial profiling.





That was in response to Simplicitry--you still haven't shown me why you would be surprised if racial profiling increases as a result of this bill.

Because, yet again, it is expressly forbidden.


Cops never break any rules. :hehehe:

 

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

How is that my model of thinking? There are rich people of every race, and to me it doesn't make sense to go after only white people when investigating securities fraud.




Your model of thinking seems to be that if a particular race is more likely to violate a certain law then that law is de facto racist and an invitation for abuse on racial grounds.


A law in and of itself cannot be racist, the manner in which individuals uphold and enforce a law can be, however--I think there is enough reason to believe that it is likely that this law could result in higher rates of racial profiling.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I didn't say that they will, I said that it is somewhat likely that they will--there is a huge difference between the two, and if you cannot understand and/or comprehend it, then that is just plain funny. :smirk:




So your whole premise for declaring this bill improper is that it is "somewhat likely" that it might be abused, in your bigoted opinion, by LEOs?  There is not a single law written anywhere that is not "somewhat likely" to be abused.  You have chopped your own argument into oblivion.  Death knell.


Was this new law even necessary? I bet that this law isn't going to decrease immigration rates, it seems like it was just made to show the rest of the country where they stand on the issue--it's pure politics.

It was necessary because it charged the Arizona law enforcement agencies to do only that which the federal government was already responsible to perform but refused to.  The state of Arizona got sick and tired of waiting for the feds to do what they are supposed to  and decided they woud damn well do it themselves, then.


Well if that's the case, then it seems reasonable enough--still, though, this doesn't negate the likelihood if this law being used as an excuse for law enforcement officials to racially profile.



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Pris should be nervous, then.  Somehow he doesn't seem to be.


I seriously doubt that Pris is brown.




I have darker skin than you, I was stopped once when I was about 17-18
while walking with a friend, he was creek/seminole, when the cop started
asking us questions it was in spanish, my uncle was denied several jobs
because he didnt speak spanish even though he looked like a mexican


Reverse-racial profiling. :smirk:



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

I know it means "the race", but I think you're taking that term a little too seriously--most Hispanics I've met don't literally believe that they are the race...:rolleyes:




it's no different than when blacks call each other nigger, sure, it's
not a racist term when they decide it's not, but I know many blacks that
see it as racist regardless of who uses it


And how many Hispanics do you know that use the term "Raza" as if they actually believe that they beling to a superior race?



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
"For the race everything, outside the race nothing"


:mexican:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12620122 - 05/24/10 03:27 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Poid said:There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.





This is the most ignorant argument of all, and it's the argument you've focused on the most. Did it ever occur to you that racist police officers who had no respect for peoples constitutional rights were already racially profiling people.


Yes it did.


  Racist police officers who have no respect for people's Constitutional rights get fired.  The enforcement of all laws hs potential for abuse.
Quote:



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
As long as we have racists cops who don't respect constitutional rights there will always be racial profiling in spite of this bill.


Yes there will, what is your point?




Neither of you are correct.  The Arizona law specifically forbids it.  If the stop can be shown to be racially motivated the evidence gets tossed.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
What you really have to ask yourself is, Where is racial profiling in the bill? You already answered, it isn't. What about rouge officers who racially profile people? They existed before this bill passed and subjected people to their racist, unconstitutional behavior before this bill as well.


I'm still waiting for your point. :shrug:




Since you can't seem to find it YET I will make it clearer. EVERY LAW HAS POTENTIAL TO BE ABUSED!
Quote:




 
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
You have a legitimate concern about an issue that has nothing to do with enforcing our immigration laws.


Only an idiot cannot see how immigration laws and racial profiling can sometimes go hand in hand.




Which has not one fucking thing to do with whether there should be such a law or not.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
And for the record people of all different backgrounds have their rights trampled by law enforcement in the current state of affairs we find ourselves in.


Yes that is quite obvious, but what isn't is your point.




Some people do get their rights trampled .  Sometims evidence gets thrown out.  Sometimes people get deported 9 times and then come back and rape people.  What's your point?
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Simply put a racist cop who wants to racially profile already had powers he could abuse to do so. This law doesn't change that.


This law encourages police officers to step up on immigration law enforcement, which could potentially result in racial profiling.




It does nothing of the kind. 
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
So no they can't shake down Mexicans based on the ethnicity.


Yeah, no fucking shit--do you even know what racial profiling is? :what:




Do you?
Quote:



Police officers who racially profile people do not put those said people under arrest for being black, Mexican, or whatever, because obviously, it is not a crime to be black, Mexican, or whatever other race. Racial profiling, put simply, is when a police officer treats a person unfairly based on their race--an example of this would be a police officer detaining a person on suspicion of a crime due to their race (when this occurs, the police officer usually makes some sort of lame excuse to detain the person).




Unfairly?  Lame exuse?  Why are you bigoted against cops?
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
This applies to whites, Asians, blacks and Hispanics alike


So the fact that Arizona borders Mexico doesn't at all give you a hint that this law may be focusing more on Mexicans than any other race/ethnicity/nationality? :strokebeard:




Mexican isn't a race and just because the majority of the offenders are members of a prticular race does not make a law racist.  By your idiotic criteria we should do away with securities fraud laws.  The perps are overwhelmingly white.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:Where was the part about people being required to have ID on that all time
Where's the part about road stops checking peoples ID's
There not there. You apparently just choose to make things up


I never made any of that shit up, stop putting words in my mouth.




It is a federal requirement for guests to carry their papers at all times.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12620161 - 05/24/10 03:35 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Time to buy Arizona tea by the truck load and other stuff made in AZ... I know alot of legal immigrits that hate the illegals....:hehehe:


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Brainiac]
    #12620250 - 05/24/10 03:51 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, I'm always surprised when people who don't cheat can tolerate those who do.


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12620351 - 05/24/10 04:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I guess I'm naive but if you are here illegally then you aren't supposed to be here. If we really mean that you shouldn't be here then we need to get you out of here. I don't get how it's wrong to ask someone who's Hispanic and lives right next to the border to show that they are a citizen here. How else are we supposed to find these folk? As long as it's done respectfully.:shrug:

Don't flame me. I'm asking this seriously.

Anyone?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12620380 - 05/24/10 04:16 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Racist police officers who have no respect for people's Constitutional rights get fired.


If they get caught--there's no real way to prove if a cop's actions were based on racist thinking,  it's hearsay.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Neither of you are correct.  The Arizona law specifically forbids it.


Source?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If the stop can be shown to be racially motivated the evidence gets tossed.


Again, that is basically impossible to show.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Since you can't seem to find it YET I will make it clearer. EVERY LAW HAS POTENTIAL TO BE ABUSED!


I wasn't talking to you, I believe that Simplicitry can speak for himself.


 
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
You have a legitimate concern about an issue that has nothing to do with enforcing our immigration laws.


Only an idiot cannot see how immigration laws and racial profiling can sometimes go hand in hand.




Which has not one fucking thing to do with whether there should be such a law or not.


I never said that there should not be any immigration laws whatsoever, my main hangup with this issue, as I've said before, is that it seems pretty likely to me that it will lead to an increase in racial profiling.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Some people do get their rights trampled .  Sometims evidence gets thrown out.  Sometimes people get deported 9 times and then come back and rape people.  What's your point?


You forgot my point already? :lol:

My point here is that there is basically no difference between legal and illegal immigrants, the main difference between them is how they entered the country.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

This law encourages police officers to step up on immigration law enforcement, which could potentially result in racial profiling.




It does nothing of the kind.


OK, great argument. :thumbup:



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Police officers who racially profile people do not put those said people under arrest for being black, Mexican, or whatever, because obviously, it is not a crime to be black, Mexican, or whatever other race. Racial profiling, put simply, is when a police officer treats a person unfairly based on their race--an example of this would be a police officer detaining a person on suspicion of a crime due to their race (when this occurs, the police officer usually makes some sort of lame excuse to detain the person).




Unfairly?  Lame exuse?  Why are you bigoted against cops?


I'm only providing a simple definition and example of racial profiling--I'm not saying that all cops treat people unfairly and use lame excuses when in order to detain people, I'm only saying that the cases where they do those things for racially motivated reasons are cases of racial profiling.

I love your knee-jerk reaction to calling me a bigot after basically every statement I make regarding police officers, it's cute. :smirk:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Mexican isn't a race and just because the majority of the offenders are members of a prticular race does not make a law racist.  By your idiotic criteria we should do away with securities fraud laws.  The perps are overwhelmingly white.


Yes, we've already been over this point, and I shouldn't have to repeat myself so much--I'm not so much concerned with the law itself as I am concerned with how it will be implemented, and what it may result in.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #12620613 - 05/24/10 05:01 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Icelander

Reason for deletion: cause



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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

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The more knowledge, the more grief.
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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Icelander]
    #12620635 - 05/24/10 05:05 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

There are white hispanic's....:facepalm:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Brainiac]
    #12620762 - 05/24/10 05:21 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I said that? :nono:

I was just identifying him as non hispanic.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12621809 - 05/24/10 08:40 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Racist police officers who have no respect for people's Constitutional rights get fired.


If they get caught--there's no real way to prove if a cop's actions were based on racist thinking,  it's hearsay.




And yet you convict them before they even have a chance?
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Neither of you are correct.  The Arizona law specifically forbids it.


Source?




Text. Read it.
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If the stop can be shown to be racially motivated the evidence gets tossed.


Again, that is basically impossible to show.


  Oh well.
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Since you can't seem to find it YET I will make it clearer. EVERY LAW HAS POTENTIAL TO BE ABUSED!


I wasn't talking to you, I believe that Simplicitry can speak for himself.




So you have no response?  I didn't think so.
Quote:




 
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
You have a legitimate concern about an issue that has nothing to do with enforcing our immigration laws.


Only an idiot cannot see how immigration laws and racial profiling can sometimes go hand in hand.




Which has not one fucking thing to do with whether there should be such a law or not.
Quote:

I never said that there should not be any immigration laws whatsoever, my main hangup with this issue, as I've said before, is that it seems pretty likely to me that it will lead to an increase in racial profiling.


  Based on nothng except your impression that most of the guilty are racially special.
Quote:




Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Some people do get their rights trampled .  Sometims evidence gets thrown out.  Sometimes people get deported 9 times and then come back and rape people.  What's your point?


You forgot my point already? :lol:




You really had none in regards to that.
Quote:



My point here is that there is basically no difference between legal and illegal immigrants, the main difference between them is how they entered the country.




The only relevant difference is that some broke the law and some did not.  It seems like a big difference to me.
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

This law encourages police officers to step up on immigration law enforcement, which could potentially result in racial profiling.




It does nothing of the kind.


OK, great argument. :thumbup:




Yes, it is.  You lie and I don't.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Police officers who racially profile people do not put those said people under arrest for being black, Mexican, or whatever, because obviously, it is not a crime to be black, Mexican, or whatever other race. Racial profiling, put simply, is when a police officer treats a person unfairly based on their race--an example of this would be a police officer detaining a person on suspicion of a crime due to their race (when this occurs, the police officer usually makes some sort of lame excuse to detain the person).




Unfairly?  Lame exuse?  Why are you bigoted against cops?


I'm only providing a simple definition and example of racial profiling--I'm not saying that all cops treat people unfairly and use lame excuses when in order to detain people, I'm only saying that the cases where they do those things for racially motivated reasons are cases of racial profiling.




So?  Like I said, all laws are potentially abused.  THAT IS NO REASON NOT TO HAVE THEM!
Quote:



I love your knee-jerk reaction to calling me a bigot after basically every statement I make regarding police officers, it's cute. :smirk:




You make the environment, I expoit it.
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Mexican isn't a race and just because the majority of the offenders are members of a prticular race does not make a law racist.  By your idiotic criteria we should do away with securities fraud laws.  The perps are overwhelmingly white.


Yes, we've already been over this point, and I shouldn't have to repeat myself so much--I'm not so much concerned with the law itself as I am concerned with how it will be implemented, and what it may result in.


Been over it?  You've never addressed it.  You're only concerned with the implementation because you are a bigot.  You.  Not the cops or anybody else, YOU.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Icelander]
    #12622660 - 05/24/10 11:00 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Questioning only people of a certain race while leaving others not of that race in peace is not aesthetically pleasing or ethical in my opinion. I live in a border town and I think that having to identify yourself to the police when you are not committing a crime is Nazi.

It also must be said that this will kill the economies of border towns. Our primary income source is people from Mexico who come here to shop. In our town we encourage visitors from Mexico and welcome them. Most people also have family members across the line. This law makes people in Mexico nervous about wanting to visit. No one wants to worry about trouble with the police in a foreign nation and to them it is scary. The federal government already enforces the border...we don't need the state doing it too. At this point the state is shitting all over themselves so bad with this that the border patrol looks friendly by comparison.

It is also not fair to slam the whole state as closed minded bigots. There are many people in Arizona...White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic who despise this law. Some of the police in Tucson have even filed a law suit against the state over this.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #12624278 - 05/25/10 04:51 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

And that whole $500 fine if you don't have  papers bit is ugly. Thanks for your input.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #12624320 - 05/25/10 05:30 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Questioning only people of a certain race while leaving others not of that race in peace is not aesthetically pleasing or ethical in my opinion. I live in a border town and I think that having to identify yourself to the police when you are not committing a crime is Nazi.




How do you feel when you have to identify yourself to drive, fly, cross the border, use a credit card, etc.?  Oh the indignity of it all.
Quote:



It also must be said that this will kill the economies of border towns. Our primary income source is people from Mexico who come here to shop.



Bullshit.
Quote:

In our town we encourage visitors from Mexico and welcome them.




And people visiting legally and going home have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Quote:

Most people also have family members across the line.


  So what?
Quote:

This law makes people in Mexico nervous about wanting to visit.



Not as fucking nervous as they are at home, I bet.
Quote:


No one wants to worry about trouble with the police in a foreign nation and to them it is scary.



If you go to fucking Europe you better not lose your fucking passport.  What a bunch of bulshit.
Quote:


The federal government already enforces the border...we don't need the state doing it too.


Apparently that is the problem.  The federal government is NOT enforcing the border.  For some  lovely pictures of how your friendly Mexican guests are treating Arizona go here
Quote:

At this point the state is shitting all over themselves so bad with this that the border patrol looks friendly by comparison.




The border patrol has been far too friendly for far too long.  If it wasn;t for sneaky little cunts breaking our laws we wouldn't even need a border patrol, would we?
Quote:



It is also not fair to slam the whole state as closed minded bigots. There are many people in Arizona...White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic who despise this law. Some of the police in Tucson have even filed a law suit against the state over this.




Because they don't want to do their job and earn their pay.  Typical unions.

The law is quite popular, in Arizona and throughout the country.

Apparently you think that if a law is more often broken by members of a particular group that law is discriminatory against that group.  On that basis I move that we eliminate all securities fraud laws.  Can I get a second?


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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Brainiac]
    #12624742 - 05/25/10 09:31 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Brainiac said:
Time to buy Arizona tea by the truck load and other stuff made in AZ... I know alot of legal immigrits that hate the illegals....:hehehe:




I'm sure the Arizona drink company will appreciate that. Especially as they are not located in, nor have any ties to, Arizona.

They are located in New York city.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Icelander]
    #12625399 - 05/25/10 01:08 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)