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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 2 days
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Icelander]
    #12625399 - 05/25/10 01:08 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't get how it's wrong to ask someone who's Hispanic and lives right next to the border to show that they are a citizen here. How else are we supposed to find these folk? As long as it's done respectfully.:shrug:




Why limit it to people that look Hispanic?  I don't mind pulling out my passport when asked to prove that I am a US citizen if it helps ship illegals out.  While we are at it, immigration laws should be changed to make it easier for people that want to legally immigrate to get into the country, to get rid of anchor baby citizenship, and to boot illegals to the back of the line.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Seuss]
    #12625438 - 05/25/10 01:21 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I agree check all the races if that makes it more fair.

But I'm not a big fan of immigration anymore. We already have too many people in this country imo. In the past yes. Now basically no.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Seuss]
    #12625445 - 05/25/10 01:23 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

We shouldn't limit it to Hispanics and, indeed, cannot.  NY City is infested with illegals from Eastern Europe, East Asia, Indonesia and the Phillipines, and probably Africa.


--------------------


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OfflineFreakdaddy
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Registered: 07/11/08
Posts: 1,086
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Seuss]
    #12625809 - 05/25/10 02:48 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
While we are at it, immigration laws should be changed to make it easier for people that want to legally immigrate to get into the country, to get rid of anchor baby citizenship, and to boot illegals to the back of the line.




Word.  :thumbup:


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Male


Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Icelander]
    #12626027 - 05/25/10 03:30 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Any person suspected of being illegal is asked for their papers or ID. If you are not in possesion of this your fined $500 whether your illegal or not and if your illegal you'll be deported. The only illegals here are Hispanic so whites won't be asked. So hisanics have to justify themselves and carry proof of citizenship at all times. It subtly endorses racial profiling. This law is created by white republicans as almost all Hispanics are liberal. Just having to carry ID at all times is harrassment.


I just got this from a friend who lives in Douglas AZ which is right on the border with Mexico. He's bright white and 85% of the town is Hispanic I believe.



Where is the this workding in the bill? I read the bill, and I don't remember this section. Do you have a page number? A line number?


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12626505 - 05/25/10 05:06 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

If they get caught--there's no real way to prove if a cop's actions were based on racist thinking,  it's hearsay.


And yet you convict them before they even have a chance?


There's a difference (one that you don't seem able to comprehend) between a conviction and an accusation.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Source?



Text. Read it.


Yeah no shit it's in the text, quote it--I'm not just going to take your word for it, that's not how debate works (just in case you didn't know).



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Again, that is basically impossible to show.


  Oh well.


That's all you have to say, "oh well"? You obviously don't give a crap about racial profiling...


 
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Based on nothng except your impression that most of the guilty are racially special.


No, it's based on the fact that a state that borders Mexico is suddenly making this law in response to the escalating violence caused by illegal Mexican immigrants--it doesn't surprise me in the least that you are unable to connect the dots here.




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

My point here is that there is basically no difference between legal and illegal immigrants, the main difference between them is how they entered the country.




The only relevant difference is that some broke the law and some did not.  It seems like a big difference to me.


It's a petty difference.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I'm only providing a simple definition and example of racial profiling--I'm not saying that all cops treat people unfairly and use lame excuses when in order to detain people, I'm only saying that the cases where they do those things for racially motivated reasons are cases of racial profiling.




So?  Like I said, all laws are potentially abused.  THAT IS NO REASON NOT TO HAVE THEM!


AND I'M NOT ARGUING THAT THAT'S THE MAIN REASON WHY I FEEL THIS LAW IS INAPPROPRIATE!



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I love your knee-jerk reaction to calling me a bigot after basically every statement I make regarding police officers, it's cute. :smirk:




You make the environment, I expoit it.


"Expoit" this. :goatse:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Been over it?  You've never addressed it.  You're only concerned with the implementation because you are a bigot.  You.  Not the cops or anybody else, YOU.


Wow, what a profoundly stupid statement--you think that, just because I am concerned about the likelihood that this law will be implemented unethically, this means that I am a bigot? Being concerned about the welfare of certain human beings makes me a bigot?


Really? :what:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12626801 - 05/25/10 05:59 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

If they get caught--there's no real way to prove if a cop's actions were based on racist thinking,  it's hearsay.


And yet you convict them before they even have a chance?


There's a difference (one that you don't seem able to comprehend) between a conviction and an accusation.




Yes there is and you are convicting them of racial profiling.  Bad of you.  Bad bad bad.
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Source?



Text. Read it.


Yeah no shit it's in the text, quote it--I'm not just going to take your word for it, that's not how debate works (just in case you didn't know).




Usual debate occurs between two informed people.  One of us is not.
Quote:

C. This act shall be implemented in a manner consistent with federal
23 laws regulating immigration, protecting the civil rights of all persons and
24 respecting the privileges and immunities of United States citizens.



http://www.examiner.com/x-35976-Conservative-Examiner~y2010m5d14-Does-enforcing-our-murder-laws-discriminate-against-blacks
For more on the fatuous reasoning of those opposed to this law on the grounds that one particular group disproportionately violates it.
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Again, that is basically impossible to show.


  Oh well.


That's all you have to say, "oh well"? You obviously don't give a crap about racial profiling...




If it's impossible to show then what can be done about it?  Nothing.  If it isn't impossible to show, counter to your fatuous reasoning, then it can be shown.  Hence the "oh well."
Quote:




 
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Based on nothng except your impression that most of the guilty are racially special.


No, it's based on the fact that a state that borders Mexico is suddenly making this law in response to the escalating violence caused by illegal Mexican immigrants--it doesn't surprise me in the least that you are unable to connect the dots here.




It doesn't surprise me in the least that you think the milky way is a dot drawing.  There is not one thing in the law that isn't already part of federal law except that it compels local agencies to enforce federal law.  Except for that the provisions of the law have been on the federal books for decades.  Since the Federales have refused to secure Arizona's border Arizona has specifically decided to enforce Federal law itself.
Quote:

 




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

My point here is that there is basically no difference between legal and illegal immigrants, the main difference between them is how they entered the country.




The only relevant difference is that some broke the law and some did not.  It seems like a big difference to me.


It's a petty difference.




Bullshit entire and federal and state law throughtout the land says I am right and you are wrong.  Part of the BIG difference between legal and illegal behavior is that if you commit an illegal act you are subject to penalty, sometimes rather harsh.  THAT seems like a rather substantial difference to me.  Whether you and your ilk want open borders is utterly irrelevant to the fact that voting Americans have steadfastly and for centuries decided that what you want is of no concern to them.  There will not be open brders.  Such is the Will of the People.
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I'm only providing a simple definition and example of racial profiling--I'm not saying that all cops treat people unfairly and use lame excuses when in order to detain people, I'm only saying that the cases where they do those things for racially motivated reasons are cases of racial profiling.




So?  Like I said, all laws are potentially abused.  THAT IS NO REASON NOT TO HAVE THEM!


AND I'M NOT ARGUING THAT THAT'S THE MAIN REASON WHY I FEEL THIS LAW IS INAPPROPRIATE!




As far as I can tell the only reason you have given at all is that it might be abused.  Since it is essentially identical to federal law and the fact that the state in question has a particularly Hispanic problem with violators your objection seems based merely on geography and a desire to create a protected class of criminals.  Would you object to this law if there was a more diverse class of violator, as in, for example NY or Michigan? 
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I love your knee-jerk reaction to calling me a bigot after basically every statement I make regarding police officers, it's cute. :smirk:




You make the environment, I expoit it.


"Expoit" this. :goatse:




Yummy.
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Been over it?  You've never addressed it.  You're only concerned with the implementation because you are a bigot.  You.  Not the cops or anybody else, YOU.


Wow, what a profoundly stupid statement--you think that, just because I am concerned about the likelihood that this law will be implemented unethically, this means that I am a bigot? Being concerned about the welfare of certain human beings makes me a bigot?




I think you're only concerned abut this law because by an accident of geography the already federally classified law breakers happen to be Hispanic, a class that you think should be preferentially treated.  Racial preferences are just as racist as the opposite.  Bigot.


--------------------


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12627063 - 05/25/10 06:41 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

There's a difference (one that you don't seem able to comprehend) between a conviction and an accusation.


Yes there is and you are convicting them of racial profiling.  Bad of you.  Bad bad bad.


Accepting the likelihood of the occurence of racial profiling isn't the same as accusing (or 'convicting', as you would erroneously have it put) any individual.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Yeah no shit it's in the text, quote it--I'm not just going to take your word for it, that's not how debate works (just in case you didn't know).


Usual debate occurs between two informed people.  One of us is not.


Actually, people usually participate in debates so they can learn something from them--but yes, I'm not afraid to admit that I haven't read the bill (like many other people who have publicly decried it). :shrug:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://www.examiner.com/x-35976-Conservative-Examiner~y2010m5d14-Does-enforcing-our-murder-laws-discriminate-against-blacks
For more on the fatuous reasoning of those opposed to this law on the grounds that one particular group disproportionately violates it.


Murder has been illegal since before blacks had the highest murder rates, many people who oppose this bill do so because it seems like it was made in reaction to illegal Mexican immigrants. Post facto.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

That's all you have to say, "oh well"? You obviously don't give a crap about racial profiling...




If it's impossible to show then what can be done about it?  Nothing.  If it isn't impossible to show, counter to your fatuous reasoning, then it can be shown.  Hence the "oh well."


I said almost impossible--the only fatuous reasoning here is on your part, for seemingly believing that it is possible to read cops' minds to figure out their intentions/motivations for doing whatever they do. :thirdeyeani:


 
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

No, it's based on the fact that a state that borders Mexico is suddenly making this law in response to the escalating violence caused by illegal Mexican immigrants--it doesn't surprise me in the least that you are unable to connect the dots here.




It doesn't surprise me in the least that you think the milky way is a dot drawing.  There is not one thing in the law that isn't already part of federal law except that it compels local agencies to enforce federal law.  Except for that the provisions of the law have been on the federal books for decades.  Since the Federales have refused to secure Arizona's border Arizona has specifically decided to enforce Federal law itself.


I'm not saying that the only reason why this bill was drafted was for racist purposes--there seem to be some legitimate purposes for the bill, but this doesn't necessarily mean that there is absolutely no racism involved with its drafting and implementation. 




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

It's a petty difference.




Bullshit entire and federal and state law throughtout the land says I am right and you are wrong.  Part of the BIG difference between legal and illegal behavior is that if you commit an illegal act you are subject to penalty, sometimes rather harsh.  THAT seems like a rather substantial difference to me.  Whether you and your ilk want open borders is utterly irrelevant to the fact that voting Americans have steadfastly and for centuries decided that what you want is of no concern to them.  There will not be open brders.  Such is the Will of the People.


I never said I am in support of open borders, I just don't think illegal immigration is always such a big deal as it's made out to be by some people--it's not much less petty than dealing coke IMO. :shrug:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

AND I'M NOT ARGUING THAT THAT'S THE MAIN REASON WHY I FEEL THIS LAW IS INAPPROPRIATE!




As far as I can tell the only reason you have given at all is that it might be abused.  Since it is essentially identical to federal law...


If it is essentially identical, then why did it even need to be drafted? Did the state have to give itself permission to enforce federal laws or something? :lol:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
...and the fact that the state in question has a particularly Hispanic problem with violators your objection seems based merely on geography and a desire to create a protected class of criminals.


That's untrue.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Would you object to this law if there was a more diverse class of violator, as in, for example NY or Michigan?


Of course I would, especially if the circumstances surrounding it were similar.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

"Expoit" this. :goatse:



Yummy.


I knew it. :smirk:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Wow, what a profoundly stupid statement--you think that, just because I am concerned about the likelihood that this law will be implemented unethically, this means that I am a bigot? Being concerned about the welfare of certain human beings makes me a bigot?




I think you're only concerned abut this law because by an accident of geography the already federally classified law breakers happen to be Hispanic, a class that you think should be preferentially treated.  Racial preferences are just as racist as the opposite.  Bigot.


Well you are incorrect there, my friend, I defend all races. :FattyNoneck::waddymelon::japsmile: :scarface:  :ghandi:  :chutup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12627170 - 05/25/10 06:55 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

No, you don't.  You want to protect a particular class of criminal merely on the basis that most violators are of a particular race.  That's racism.  By you.

Border protection, like the prohibition against murder, is an ancient feature of the law of nations.  Ancient.  Do you what isn't so ancient?  Securities fraud law.  Overwhelmingly violated by white men.  How come you don't call that law racist?


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12627971 - 05/25/10 09:05 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Any person suspected of being illegal is asked for their papers or ID. If you are not in possesion of this your fined $500 whether your illegal or not and if your illegal you'll be deported. The only illegals here are Hispanic so whites won't be asked. So hisanics have to justify themselves and carry proof of citizenship at all times. It subtly endorses racial profiling. This law is created by white republicans as almost all Hispanics are liberal. Just having to carry ID at all times is harrassment.


I just got this from a friend who lives in Douglas AZ which is right on the border with Mexico. He's bright white and 85% of the town is Hispanic I believe.



Where is the this workding in the bill? I read the bill, and I don't remember this section. Do you have a page number? A line number?







--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (05/26/10 08:09 AM)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12628151 - 05/25/10 09:36 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
No, you don't.  You want to protect a particular class of criminal merely on the basis that most violators are of a particular race.


No I don't, you just think that I do because I happen to be Hispanic.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Border protection, like the prohibition against murder, is an ancient feature of the law of nations.  Ancient.  Do you what isn't so ancient?  Securities fraud law.  Overwhelmingly violated by white men.  How come you don't call that law racist?


I don't know how law enforcement officials go about enforcing those laws, so I can't comment on whether I think those laws are racist or not. Besides, I already said earlier that if officers racially profile a white man for securities fraud, I would be equally against it as I would be against any other type of racial profiling.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Male


Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Icelander]
    #12628178 - 05/25/10 09:39 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Oh
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Any person suspected of being illegal is asked for their papers or ID. If you are not in possesion of this your fined $500 whether your illegal or not and if your illegal you'll be deported. The only illegals here are Hispanic so whites won't be asked. So Hispanics have to justify themselves and carry proof of citizenship at all times. It subtly endorses racial profiling. This law is created by white republicans as almost all Hispanics are liberal. Just having to carry ID at all times is harrassment.


I just got this from a friend who lives in Douglas AZ which is right on the border with Mexico. He's bright white and 85% of the town is Hispanic I believe.



Where is the this wording in the bill? I read the bill, and I don't remember this section. Do you have a page number? A line number?





This came from Huehuecoytl. You can PM him.



Oh so this is just misinformation that people who are opposed to the legislation are saying like it's a fact when it's just made up nonsense. Not surprising really seem like a pretty standard tactic for the left these days.


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12628293 - 05/25/10 09:56 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
No, you don't.  You want to protect a particular class of criminal merely on the basis that most violators are of a particular race.


No I don't, you just think that I do because I happen to be Hispanic.




I don't think I knew that.  Nor do I care.  No, I base my assessment that you are a racist based on your posts.  Solely.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Border protection, like the prohibition against murder, is an ancient feature of the law of nations.  Ancient.  Do you what isn't so ancient?  Securities fraud law.  Overwhelmingly violated by white men.  How come you don't call that law racist?


I don't know how law enforcement officials go about enforcing those laws, so I can't comment on whether I think those laws are racist or not. Besides, I already said earlier that if officers racially profile a white man for securities fraud, I would be equally against it as I would be against any other type of racial profiling.




But your only opposition to this specific law is that it might result in racial profiling (even though it is expressly forbidden) and even though it is already federal law.  You have no problem with a law that might be abused through racial profiling if the victims are white.  Bigot.


--------------------


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12628531 - 05/25/10 10:32 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You have no problem with a law that might be abused through racial profiling if the victims are white.


Yeah, I never said that, you just erroneously inferred it. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... *DELETED* [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12628711 - 05/25/10 11:01 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by Icelander

Reason for deletion: cause



--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Icelander]
    #12628763 - 05/25/10 11:11 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

LOl.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlineesp0791
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #12629932 - 05/26/10 03:21 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
LOl.







Hitler was just crazy and a lunatic. If you think the AZ law is anything like Nazi Fascism then you are retarted. But hopefully you were just posting the video for the lulz :flowstone:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: esp0791]
    #12631030 - 05/26/10 11:32 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

C'mon now.

Quote:

retarted




Retarded.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12631261 - 05/26/10 12:35 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

No, he meant re-tarted, as in made a bitch yet again.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12632854 - 05/26/10 06:05 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

poid said
And how many Hispanics do you know that use the term "Raza" as if they actually believe that they beling to a superior race?




how the hell should I know, I'm not the guy that goes to see the psychic in
order to warn them of their futures, mind reading is just a parlor trick


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