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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12526381 - 05/08/10 11:09 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Pris should be nervous, then.  Somehow he doesn't seem to be.


I seriously doubt that Pris is brown.




I have darker skin than you, I was stopped once when I was about 17-18
while walking with a friend, he was creek/seminole, when the cop started
asking us questions it was in spanish, my uncle was denied several jobs
because he didnt speak spanish even though he looked like a mexican

Quote:

I know it means "the race", but I think you're taking that term a little too seriously--most Hispanics I've met don't literally believe that they are the race...:rolleyes:




it's no different than when blacks call each other nigger, sure, it's
not a racist term when they decide it's not, but I know many blacks that
see it as racist regardless of who uses it

"For the race everything, outside the race nothing"


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Male


Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12538948 - 05/10/10 08:35 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Poid said:There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.





This is the most ignorant argument of all, and it's the argument you've focused on the most. Did it ever occur to you that racist police officers who had no respect for peoples constitutional rights were already racially profiling people. As long as we have racists cops who don't respect constitutional rights there will always be racial profiling in spite of this bill.

What you really have to ask yourself is, Where is racial profiling in the bill? You already answered, it isn't. What about rouge officers who racially profile people? They existed before this bill passed and subjected people to their racist, unconstitutional behavior before this bill as well. 

You have a legitimate concern about an issue that has nothing to do with enforcing our immigration laws. And for the record people of all different backgrounds have their rights trampled by law enforcement in the current state of affairs we find ourselves in. Start a thread on it.


Simply put a racist cop who wants to racially profile already had powers he could abuse to do so. This law doesn't change that. Mostly because this laws focus was illegal immigration, not rouge police.

I would only agree that we need to pass legislation that takes care of such police officers

These are the facts that remain.

What the United States Supreme Court held in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, was that a state could make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself (i.e., tell the officer his name and address) when lawfully detained for criminal activity. Note that the Supreme Court did NOT say that any kind of identification papers could be required. There is no law in the United States requiring everybody to carry ID, at least not yet.

You have to be committing a criminal activity or operating a motor vehicle to be required by law to show your identification.

So no they can't shake down Mexicans based on the ethnicity.

This applies to whites, Asians, blacks and Hispanics alike

The Bill http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Where was the part about people being required to have ID on that all time
Where's the part about road stops checking peoples ID's
There not there. You apparently just choose to make things up

This is a little thing call fact that many people like to over look because when it contradicts there view point.




Hey c'mon, no response? It wouldn't be because you don't have a valid rebuttle would it?


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,245
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12541727 - 05/11/10 08:54 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Hey c'mon, no response? It wouldn't be because you don't have a valid rebuttle would it?




You know..... I happen to think Poid is close to the lamest poster in this forum. It's sad that he posts here.

However, you made your post at Fri May 07 2010 10:32 PM.

His last post on the site was at Fri May 07 2010 10:02 PM.

While I can't say for certain he hasn't been here since then, it at least appears he has not. In which case he hasn't even seen your post, much less formulated a rebuttal.

Besides..... please don't encourage him. Maybe he'll just go away and we can avoid being subjected to his drivel.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinedshow
Nomad
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Registered: 01/22/09
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #12552056 - 05/12/10 11:39 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Simplicitry said:
Hey c'mon, no response? It wouldn't be because you don't have a valid rebuttle would it?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You know..... I happen to think Poid is close to the lamest poster in this forum. It's sad that he posts here.

However, you made your post at Fri May 07 2010 10:32 PM.

His last post on the site was at Fri May 07 2010 10:02 PM.

While I can't say for certain he hasn't been here since then, it at least appears he has not. In which case he hasn't even seen your post, much less formulated a rebuttal.

Besides..... please don't encourage him. Maybe he'll just go away and we can avoid being subjected to his drivel.

Yes Yes... Carry on now.. thats a good pig


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: dshow] * 2
    #12553718 - 05/13/10 06:59 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

>  I happen to think Poid is close to the lamest poster in this forum.

Please leave the personal attacks elsewhere.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Seuss]
    #12619967 - 05/24/10 02:51 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Poid said:There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.





This is the most ignorant argument of all, and it's the argument you've focused on the most. Did it ever occur to you that racist police officers who had no respect for peoples constitutional rights were already racially profiling people.


Yes it did.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
As long as we have racists cops who don't respect constitutional rights there will always be racial profiling in spite of this bill.


Yes there will, what is your point?



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
What you really have to ask yourself is, Where is racial profiling in the bill? You already answered, it isn't. What about rouge officers who racially profile people? They existed before this bill passed and subjected people to their racist, unconstitutional behavior before this bill as well.


I'm still waiting for your point. :shrug:


 
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
You have a legitimate concern about an issue that has nothing to do with enforcing our immigration laws.


Only an idiot cannot see how immigration laws and racial profiling can sometimes go hand in hand.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
And for the record people of all different backgrounds have their rights trampled by law enforcement in the current state of affairs we find ourselves in.


Yes that is quite obvious, but what isn't is your point.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Simply put a racist cop who wants to racially profile already had powers he could abuse to do so. This law doesn't change that.


This law encourages police officers to step up on immigration law enforcement, which could potentially result in racial profiling.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
So no they can't shake down Mexicans based on the ethnicity.


Yeah, no fucking shit--do you even know what racial profiling is? :what:

Police officers who racially profile people do not put those said people under arrest for being black, Mexican, or whatever, because obviously, it is not a crime to be black, Mexican, or whatever other race. Racial profiling, put simply, is when a police officer treats a person unfairly based on their race--an example of this would be a police officer detaining a person on suspicion of a crime due to their race (when this occurs, the police officer usually makes some sort of lame excuse to detain the person).



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
This applies to whites, Asians, blacks and Hispanics alike


So the fact that Arizona borders Mexico doesn't at all give you a hint that this law may be focusing more on Mexicans than any other race/ethnicity/nationality? :strokebeard:



Quote:

Simplicitry said:Where was the part about people being required to have ID on that all time
Where's the part about road stops checking peoples ID's
There not there. You apparently just choose to make things up


I never made any of that shit up, stop putting words in my mouth.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisiblePoid
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Posts: 40,372
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12620081 - 05/24/10 03:17 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

You can't be serious. :picard:




100%.  Do you think he should get to keep his ill gotten gains?  Get off scot free?  Bussed right back to the nearest border crossing over which he wil hop yet again?.  No, get out and stay out.  I believe repeat border jumping becomes a felony, by the way.


Since when are felons shipped out to the coast of Antarctica? :snowman:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Yes, and I'm asking you what those differences have to do with anything--do you support racial segregation or something?




:flowstone:Do I really have to point out that some of them are also violent criminals, drive without licenses and insurance, are pregnant or ill and come just to suck services, are from Eastern Europe or any other place not Mexico?


Some legal immigrants are like that, too. :shrug:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.



Then you are clearly against all laws, because they can all be abused.  Which is of course an idiotic position to take.



I am not totally against the law itself, I'm mostly worried that it will be interpreted and implemented in unethical ways.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

It doesn't matter what I think a Mexican looks/behaves like, if a law enforcement officer believes that a certain person is Mexican, and the said officer wants to abuse his/her power, then s/he may racially profile that person.




Except that is expressly forbidden.  Do you know anything at all about this bill?


Racial profiling is always expressly forbidden, but it still occurs--do you know anything at all about how cops get away with doing it?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The fact that AZ, a state on the US/Mexican border, passed this law shows that it was made in response to immigrants coming from Mexico.


Oh does it?  Maybe it just shows that Arizona has a particularly huge problem with illegal immigrants, some of whom...


Most of whom.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
...happen to be from Mexico, and that the federal government has disgracefully abdicated its responsibility to police our borders.  Where they come from is of no relevance.  Nothng in the law singles out Mexicans.


I never said it did.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I don't hate all cops, I just don't like the way many of them go about performing their duties.




I don't either, although my wording would change "many" to "some".


I can't imagine why--you've never watched the TV show "Cops", have you? :lol:

I don't see any abuse on COPS


I see nothing but abuse.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

All I'm saying is that this law seems to encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans--I wouldn't be surprised if the rate of racial profiling by cops against Mexicans starts to rise in Arizona, would you?




Yes.  I think it will make exactly zero difference.  You're just bigoted against cops.


Why would you be surprised, what, to you, would be surprising about that?

Where did I express surprise that you were bigoted against cops?

I already said that I'm not bigoted against cops--just like you, I've met several respectful cops who seemed like good people. Like in any demographic, the good ones are rarer than the bad ones.

You've said it but then you repeat your bigotry.


I'm not a bigot, so I don't know what you're talking about.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

From this, it is logical to assume that this bill could potentially increase the incidence of racial profiling by law enforcement officials against Mexicans.




Any law could potentially be abused.  That is no reason not to pass laws.


Some laws have more potential than others to be abused.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Let me repeat, these laws are just going to encourage police officers to watch over Mexican humans more than they watch over any other ethnicity--what strikes me as odd is that you're Mexican, and you show no sign that you are not OK with this. :confused:



Quote:

You keep repeating a fantasy.  Not the fantasy that I am Mexican but that this is de facto going to encourage racial profiling.





That was in response to Simplicitry--you still haven't shown me why you would be surprised if racial profiling increases as a result of this bill.

Because, yet again, it is expressly forbidden.


Cops never break any rules. :hehehe:

 

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

How is that my model of thinking? There are rich people of every race, and to me it doesn't make sense to go after only white people when investigating securities fraud.




Your model of thinking seems to be that if a particular race is more likely to violate a certain law then that law is de facto racist and an invitation for abuse on racial grounds.


A law in and of itself cannot be racist, the manner in which individuals uphold and enforce a law can be, however--I think there is enough reason to believe that it is likely that this law could result in higher rates of racial profiling.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I didn't say that they will, I said that it is somewhat likely that they will--there is a huge difference between the two, and if you cannot understand and/or comprehend it, then that is just plain funny. :smirk:




So your whole premise for declaring this bill improper is that it is "somewhat likely" that it might be abused, in your bigoted opinion, by LEOs?  There is not a single law written anywhere that is not "somewhat likely" to be abused.  You have chopped your own argument into oblivion.  Death knell.


Was this new law even necessary? I bet that this law isn't going to decrease immigration rates, it seems like it was just made to show the rest of the country where they stand on the issue--it's pure politics.

It was necessary because it charged the Arizona law enforcement agencies to do only that which the federal government was already responsible to perform but refused to.  The state of Arizona got sick and tired of waiting for the feds to do what they are supposed to  and decided they woud damn well do it themselves, then.


Well if that's the case, then it seems reasonable enough--still, though, this doesn't negate the likelihood if this law being used as an excuse for law enforcement officials to racially profile.



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Pris should be nervous, then.  Somehow he doesn't seem to be.


I seriously doubt that Pris is brown.




I have darker skin than you, I was stopped once when I was about 17-18
while walking with a friend, he was creek/seminole, when the cop started
asking us questions it was in spanish, my uncle was denied several jobs
because he didnt speak spanish even though he looked like a mexican


Reverse-racial profiling. :smirk:



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

I know it means "the race", but I think you're taking that term a little too seriously--most Hispanics I've met don't literally believe that they are the race...:rolleyes:




it's no different than when blacks call each other nigger, sure, it's
not a racist term when they decide it's not, but I know many blacks that
see it as racist regardless of who uses it


And how many Hispanics do you know that use the term "Raza" as if they actually believe that they beling to a superior race?



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
"For the race everything, outside the race nothing"


:mexican:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12620122 - 05/24/10 03:27 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Poid said:There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.





This is the most ignorant argument of all, and it's the argument you've focused on the most. Did it ever occur to you that racist police officers who had no respect for peoples constitutional rights were already racially profiling people.


Yes it did.


  Racist police officers who have no respect for people's Constitutional rights get fired.  The enforcement of all laws hs potential for abuse.
Quote:



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
As long as we have racists cops who don't respect constitutional rights there will always be racial profiling in spite of this bill.


Yes there will, what is your point?




Neither of you are correct.  The Arizona law specifically forbids it.  If the stop can be shown to be racially motivated the evidence gets tossed.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
What you really have to ask yourself is, Where is racial profiling in the bill? You already answered, it isn't. What about rouge officers who racially profile people? They existed before this bill passed and subjected people to their racist, unconstitutional behavior before this bill as well.


I'm still waiting for your point. :shrug:




Since you can't seem to find it YET I will make it clearer. EVERY LAW HAS POTENTIAL TO BE ABUSED!
Quote:




 
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
You have a legitimate concern about an issue that has nothing to do with enforcing our immigration laws.


Only an idiot cannot see how immigration laws and racial profiling can sometimes go hand in hand.




Which has not one fucking thing to do with whether there should be such a law or not.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
And for the record people of all different backgrounds have their rights trampled by law enforcement in the current state of affairs we find ourselves in.


Yes that is quite obvious, but what isn't is your point.




Some people do get their rights trampled .  Sometims evidence gets thrown out.  Sometimes people get deported 9 times and then come back and rape people.  What's your point?
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Simply put a racist cop who wants to racially profile already had powers he could abuse to do so. This law doesn't change that.


This law encourages police officers to step up on immigration law enforcement, which could potentially result in racial profiling.




It does nothing of the kind. 
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
So no they can't shake down Mexicans based on the ethnicity.


Yeah, no fucking shit--do you even know what racial profiling is? :what:




Do you?
Quote:



Police officers who racially profile people do not put those said people under arrest for being black, Mexican, or whatever, because obviously, it is not a crime to be black, Mexican, or whatever other race. Racial profiling, put simply, is when a police officer treats a person unfairly based on their race--an example of this would be a police officer detaining a person on suspicion of a crime due to their race (when this occurs, the police officer usually makes some sort of lame excuse to detain the person).




Unfairly?  Lame exuse?  Why are you bigoted against cops?
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
This applies to whites, Asians, blacks and Hispanics alike


So the fact that Arizona borders Mexico doesn't at all give you a hint that this law may be focusing more on Mexicans than any other race/ethnicity/nationality? :strokebeard:




Mexican isn't a race and just because the majority of the offenders are members of a prticular race does not make a law racist.  By your idiotic criteria we should do away with securities fraud laws.  The perps are overwhelmingly white.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:Where was the part about people being required to have ID on that all time
Where's the part about road stops checking peoples ID's
There not there. You apparently just choose to make things up


I never made any of that shit up, stop putting words in my mouth.




It is a federal requirement for guests to carry their papers at all times.


--------------------


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InvisibleBrainiac
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Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 13,259
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12620161 - 05/24/10 03:35 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Time to buy Arizona tea by the truck load and other stuff made in AZ... I know alot of legal immigrits that hate the illegals....:hehehe:


--------------------
:Awesketch:

:cool: Fair is Fair :devil:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Brainiac]
    #12620250 - 05/24/10 03:51 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, I'm always surprised when people who don't cheat can tolerate those who do.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12620351 - 05/24/10 04:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I guess I'm naive but if you are here illegally then you aren't supposed to be here. If we really mean that you shouldn't be here then we need to get you out of here. I don't get how it's wrong to ask someone who's Hispanic and lives right next to the border to show that they are a citizen here. How else are we supposed to find these folk? As long as it's done respectfully.:shrug:

Don't flame me. I'm asking this seriously.

Anyone?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12620380 - 05/24/10 04:16 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Racist police officers who have no respect for people's Constitutional rights get fired.


If they get caught--there's no real way to prove if a cop's actions were based on racist thinking,  it's hearsay.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Neither of you are correct.  The Arizona law specifically forbids it.


Source?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If the stop can be shown to be racially motivated the evidence gets tossed.


Again, that is basically impossible to show.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Since you can't seem to find it YET I will make it clearer. EVERY LAW HAS POTENTIAL TO BE ABUSED!


I wasn't talking to you, I believe that Simplicitry can speak for himself.


 
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
You have a legitimate concern about an issue that has nothing to do with enforcing our immigration laws.


Only an idiot cannot see how immigration laws and racial profiling can sometimes go hand in hand.




Which has not one fucking thing to do with whether there should be such a law or not.


I never said that there should not be any immigration laws whatsoever, my main hangup with this issue, as I've said before, is that it seems pretty likely to me that it will lead to an increase in racial profiling.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Some people do get their rights trampled .  Sometims evidence gets thrown out.  Sometimes people get deported 9 times and then come back and rape people.  What's your point?


You forgot my point already? :lol:

My point here is that there is basically no difference between legal and illegal immigrants, the main difference between them is how they entered the country.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

This law encourages police officers to step up on immigration law enforcement, which could potentially result in racial profiling.




It does nothing of the kind.


OK, great argument. :thumbup:



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Police officers who racially profile people do not put those said people under arrest for being black, Mexican, or whatever, because obviously, it is not a crime to be black, Mexican, or whatever other race. Racial profiling, put simply, is when a police officer treats a person unfairly based on their race--an example of this would be a police officer detaining a person on suspicion of a crime due to their race (when this occurs, the police officer usually makes some sort of lame excuse to detain the person).




Unfairly?  Lame exuse?  Why are you bigoted against cops?


I'm only providing a simple definition and example of racial profiling--I'm not saying that all cops treat people unfairly and use lame excuses when in order to detain people, I'm only saying that the cases where they do those things for racially motivated reasons are cases of racial profiling.

I love your knee-jerk reaction to calling me a bigot after basically every statement I make regarding police officers, it's cute. :smirk:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Mexican isn't a race and just because the majority of the offenders are members of a prticular race does not make a law racist.  By your idiotic criteria we should do away with securities fraud laws.  The perps are overwhelmingly white.


Yes, we've already been over this point, and I shouldn't have to repeat myself so much--I'm not so much concerned with the law itself as I am concerned with how it will be implemented, and what it may result in.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #12620613 - 05/24/10 05:01 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Icelander

Reason for deletion: cause



--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleBrainiac
Rogue Scientist
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Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 13,259
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Icelander]
    #12620635 - 05/24/10 05:05 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

There are white hispanic's....:facepalm:


--------------------
:Awesketch:

:cool: Fair is Fair :devil:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Brainiac]
    #12620762 - 05/24/10 05:21 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I said that? :nono:

I was just identifying him as non hispanic.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12621809 - 05/24/10 08:40 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Racist police officers who have no respect for people's Constitutional rights get fired.


If they get caught--there's no real way to prove if a cop's actions were based on racist thinking,  it's hearsay.




And yet you convict them before they even have a chance?
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Neither of you are correct.  The Arizona law specifically forbids it.


Source?




Text. Read it.
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If the stop can be shown to be racially motivated the evidence gets tossed.


Again, that is basically impossible to show.


  Oh well.
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Since you can't seem to find it YET I will make it clearer. EVERY LAW HAS POTENTIAL TO BE ABUSED!


I wasn't talking to you, I believe that Simplicitry can speak for himself.




So you have no response?  I didn't think so.
Quote:




 
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
You have a legitimate concern about an issue that has nothing to do with enforcing our immigration laws.


Only an idiot cannot see how immigration laws and racial profiling can sometimes go hand in hand.




Which has not one fucking thing to do with whether there should be such a law or not.
Quote:

I never said that there should not be any immigration laws whatsoever, my main hangup with this issue, as I've said before, is that it seems pretty likely to me that it will lead to an increase in racial profiling.


  Based on nothng except your impression that most of the guilty are racially special.
Quote:




Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Some people do get their rights trampled .  Sometims evidence gets thrown out.  Sometimes people get deported 9 times and then come back and rape people.  What's your point?


You forgot my point already? :lol:




You really had none in regards to that.
Quote:



My point here is that there is basically no difference between legal and illegal immigrants, the main difference between them is how they entered the country.




The only relevant difference is that some broke the law and some did not.  It seems like a big difference to me.
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

This law encourages police officers to step up on immigration law enforcement, which could potentially result in racial profiling.




It does nothing of the kind.


OK, great argument. :thumbup:




Yes, it is.  You lie and I don't.
Quote:





Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Police officers who racially profile people do not put those said people under arrest for being black, Mexican, or whatever, because obviously, it is not a crime to be black, Mexican, or whatever other race. Racial profiling, put simply, is when a police officer treats a person unfairly based on their race--an example of this would be a police officer detaining a person on suspicion of a crime due to their race (when this occurs, the police officer usually makes some sort of lame excuse to detain the person).




Unfairly?  Lame exuse?  Why are you bigoted against cops?


I'm only providing a simple definition and example of racial profiling--I'm not saying that all cops treat people unfairly and use lame excuses when in order to detain people, I'm only saying that the cases where they do those things for racially motivated reasons are cases of racial profiling.




So?  Like I said, all laws are potentially abused.  THAT IS NO REASON NOT TO HAVE THEM!
Quote:



I love your knee-jerk reaction to calling me a bigot after basically every statement I make regarding police officers, it's cute. :smirk:




You make the environment, I expoit it.
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Mexican isn't a race and just because the majority of the offenders are members of a prticular race does not make a law racist.  By your idiotic criteria we should do away with securities fraud laws.  The perps are overwhelmingly white.


Yes, we've already been over this point, and I shouldn't have to repeat myself so much--I'm not so much concerned with the law itself as I am concerned with how it will be implemented, and what it may result in.


Been over it?  You've never addressed it.  You're only concerned with the implementation because you are a bigot.  You.  Not the cops or anybody else, YOU.


--------------------


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Posts: 10,662
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Icelander]
    #12622660 - 05/24/10 11:00 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Questioning only people of a certain race while leaving others not of that race in peace is not aesthetically pleasing or ethical in my opinion. I live in a border town and I think that having to identify yourself to the police when you are not committing a crime is Nazi.

It also must be said that this will kill the economies of border towns. Our primary income source is people from Mexico who come here to shop. In our town we encourage visitors from Mexico and welcome them. Most people also have family members across the line. This law makes people in Mexico nervous about wanting to visit. No one wants to worry about trouble with the police in a foreign nation and to them it is scary. The federal government already enforces the border...we don't need the state doing it too. At this point the state is shitting all over themselves so bad with this that the border patrol looks friendly by comparison.

It is also not fair to slam the whole state as closed minded bigots. There are many people in Arizona...White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic who despise this law. Some of the police in Tucson have even filed a law suit against the state over this.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #12624278 - 05/25/10 04:51 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

And that whole $500 fine if you don't have  papers bit is ugly. Thanks for your input.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #12624320 - 05/25/10 05:30 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Questioning only people of a certain race while leaving others not of that race in peace is not aesthetically pleasing or ethical in my opinion. I live in a border town and I think that having to identify yourself to the police when you are not committing a crime is Nazi.




How do you feel when you have to identify yourself to drive, fly, cross the border, use a credit card, etc.?  Oh the indignity of it all.
Quote:



It also must be said that this will kill the economies of border towns. Our primary income source is people from Mexico who come here to shop.



Bullshit.
Quote:

In our town we encourage visitors from Mexico and welcome them.




And people visiting legally and going home have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Quote:

Most people also have family members across the line.


  So what?
Quote:

This law makes people in Mexico nervous about wanting to visit.



Not as fucking nervous as they are at home, I bet.
Quote:


No one wants to worry about trouble with the police in a foreign nation and to them it is scary.



If you go to fucking Europe you better not lose your fucking passport.  What a bunch of bulshit.
Quote:


The federal government already enforces the border...we don't need the state doing it too.


Apparently that is the problem.  The federal government is NOT enforcing the border.  For some  lovely pictures of how your friendly Mexican guests are treating Arizona go here
Quote:

At this point the state is shitting all over themselves so bad with this that the border patrol looks friendly by comparison.




The border patrol has been far too friendly for far too long.  If it wasn;t for sneaky little cunts breaking our laws we wouldn't even need a border patrol, would we?
Quote:



It is also not fair to slam the whole state as closed minded bigots. There are many people in Arizona...White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic who despise this law. Some of the police in Tucson have even filed a law suit against the state over this.




Because they don't want to do their job and earn their pay.  Typical unions.

The law is quite popular, in Arizona and throughout the country.

Apparently you think that if a law is more often broken by members of a particular group that law is discriminatory against that group.  On that basis I move that we eliminate all securities fraud laws.  Can I get a second?


--------------------


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Brainiac]
    #12624742 - 05/25/10 09:31 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Brainiac said:
Time to buy Arizona tea by the truck load and other stuff made in AZ... I know alot of legal immigrits that hate the illegals....:hehehe:




I'm sure the Arizona drink company will appreciate that. Especially as they are not located in, nor have any ties to, Arizona.

They are located in New York city.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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