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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12517954 - 05/06/10 06:51 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And I suppose you think they got those green cards from the green card tree.  The difference is a little more subtle than you seem to appreciate. One is following the law of the country he is enetering and showing the proper respect.  The other is a criminal.


Yeah, a petty criminal.




identity theft, fraud, these arent petty crimes




Quote:

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
There is no racial profiling requirement in the bill.  If you think there is would you please point it out to us.


I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




cant happen, mexican is a nationality, not a race, although La Raza
would like us to believe mexicans are the only 'race'


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12518009 - 05/06/10 07:02 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Thats a great point that people often mess up.  Mexican is not a race.  Mexico is a multi-ethnic nation, like all nations in the western hemisphere.  There are white mexicans, there are brown mexicans, there are black mexicans.  Most mexicans are somewhere between white and brown. 

If you are a citizen of mexico, you are mexican no matter what your race.  If you are a citizen of america you are american, no matter what your race.  Most hispanics in arizona are american, not mexican.

Hell, when I was growing up in arizona I would get harassed by hispanic cops because I dressed like a hippie and not a chollo.


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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12518018 - 05/06/10 07:04 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
identity theft, fraud, these arent petty crimes


Not all of them commit those crimes, do you have any source which shows how many of them actually do?



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




cant happen, mexican is a nationality, not a race...


How does this stop it from happening?



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...although La Raza would like us to believe mexicans are the only 'race'


I'm not sure what you're talking about, or where you get that idea--"Raza" is just a term some Hispanic people use for each other, similarly to how blacks say "nigga", or hippies say "brah".



Quote:

DieCommie said:
Thats a great point that people often mess up.  Mexican is not a race.  Mexico is a multi-ethnic nation, like all nations in the western hemisphere.  There are white mexicans, there are brown mexicans, there are black mexicans.  Most mexicans are somewhere between white and brown.


For some reason, it seems to be the brown ones who are more likely to be racially profiled.


 
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Hell, when I was growing up in arizona I would get harassed by hispanic cops because I dressed like a hippie and not a chollo.


I think that's sort of fucked up--some law enforcement officials in that area encourage the "chollo" stereotype. :nonono:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinedshow
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Registered: 01/22/09
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12518311 - 05/06/10 08:05 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Annapurna you are rediculous. Next time you post a topic please look into it. This is a topic for the big boys, run along.

H
Quote:

no doubt polls will show overwhelming public support for the AZ statute in all parts of the country...but all that means is that we are reverting to being an overtly racist society.. with AZ having passed what is by far the most racist legislation since the japanese internment...





OVERLY racist? lol wow. I guess it would look that way when we have a few people out there like you who point the racist finger to anyone non-liberal. The word is so overused now days by people like you that what the hell does it even mean anymore? your racist for being for it and racist for being against. stop.

For the second part of AZ being racist and all the people complaining about AZ passing this bill.  Do you know what Affirmative Action is??? der... der...


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid] * 1
    #12518319 - 05/06/10 08:06 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And I suppose you think they got those green cards from the green card tree.  The difference is a little more subtle than you seem to appreciate. One is following the law of the country he is enetering and showing the proper respect.  The other is a criminal.


Yeah, a petty criminal.

And what should we do with the petty criminal?  A little jail, a little confscation of his criminally procured gains and a nice ride to the coast of Antarctica. 


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Oh yeah, and they are also different people with different DNA.


What does that have to do with anything?

It was in response to this stupid statement you made:
"There is no difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant, except for the fact that legals have green cards."
It has to do with the fact that they are different people, not just different types of immigrants.  They have more differences than just their legal status.  Don't worry about it.



Quote:

Simplicitry said:
There is no racial profiling requirement in the bill.  If you think there is would you please point it out to us.


I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.

Would you please point out the section of the bill which does that.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

There is an obvious distinction between de jure and de facto law--there are plenty of things that officers get away with which they are not allowed to do; again, this bill just makes it easier for officers to racially profile humans that look Mexican.




Would you please in your bigoted fashion show us just exactly what a Mexican looks like.


WTF are you talking about?

Show us what a Mexican looks like.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Also please show us all how an illegal immigrant from Mexico is similar in appearance to an illegal immigrant from Poland since they are treated exactly equally under this law.


WTF are you talking about?
In case your bigoted self didn't know it there is also a rather large population of illegal immigrants here from Europe and other places.  Yep, it's true.  They gotta go as well.  Why do you bigots always assume that all illegal entrants to this country are brown people?


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

That issue is somewhat intermingled with this one--IME, cops do anything they can to  step on peoples' constitutional rights, they generally do not give a fuck.


  Why do you hate cops, you anti-cop bigot?


I don't hate all cops, I just don't like the way many of them go about performing their duties.

I don't either, although my wording would change "many" to "some".



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If it wasn't for cops you would be my sex slave.


:gayflag:

I thought you were a woman, what with your aimless contentiousness.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

That only makes it so that cops hawk over Mexicans until they slip, and break the tiniest little law, so that they have to show identification--this is called racial profiling.




You have convicted the cops before they even had a chance to act.


All I'm saying is that this law seems to encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans--I wouldn't be surprised if the rate of racial profiling by cops against Mexicans starts to rise in Arizona, would you?

Yes.  I think it will make exactly zero difference.  You're just bigoted against cops.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Can you say fallacious prior restraint?


It's not fallacious, there is probable cause to believe that racial profiling against Mexicans might occur more frequently as a result of this bill being passed.

No, there isn't.




Not sure why you keep insisting that I'm ignoring facts, but it's really fucking retarded. :lol:

Let me repeat, these laws are just going to encourage police officers to watch over Mexican humans more than they watch over any other ethnicity--what strikes me as odd is that you're Mexican, and you show no sign that you are not OK with this. :confused:
You keep repeating a fantasy.  Not the fantasy that I am Mexican but that this is de facto going to encourage racial profiling. 
Quote:


Laws against securities fraud cause cops to look over white people's shoulders disproportionately.  Do you think we should get rid of them since they are obviously race based?


No, I think that cops should not look over white peoples' shoulders disproportionately, and instead pay attention to other, more relevant details of an individual before a security investigation is conducted on them.

But securities law encourages racial profiling, according to your model of thinking, which posits that just because a certain race is more likely to commit a crime any law prohibiting that crime is discriminatory.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Yeah, again, you accuse me of some made-up fantasy bullshit that you got from who-knows-where. :cuckoo:


  The only fantasy I see is from you who is convicted law enforcers of improper acts before they even have a chance to amake them.  You are making a prior argument that becase it is popssible for cops to abuse their opsition they will.


I didn't say that they will, I said that it is somewhat likely that they will--there is a huge difference between the two, and if you cannot understand and/or comprehend it, then that is just plain funny. :smirk:




So your whole premise for declaring this bill improper is that it is "somewhat likely" that it might be abused, in your bigoted opinion, by LEOs?  There is not a single law written anywhere that is not "somewhat likely" to be abused.  You have chopped your own argument into oblivion.  Death knell.


--------------------


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: dshow]
    #12518390 - 05/06/10 08:22 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dshow said:
Annapurna you are rediculous. Next time you post a topic please look into it. This is a topic for the big boys, run along.

H
Quote:

no doubt polls will show overwhelming public support for the AZ statute in all parts of the country...but all that means is that we are reverting to being an overtly racist society.. with AZ having passed what is by far the most racist legislation since the japanese internment...





OVERLY racist? lol wow. I guess it would look that way when we have a few people out there like you who point the racist finger to anyone non-liberal. The word is so overused now days by people like you that what the hell does it even mean anymore? your racist for being for it and racist for being against. stop.

For the second part of AZ being racist and all the people complaining about AZ passing this bill.  Do you know what Affirmative Action is??? der... der...




it says OVERTLY..not OVERLY..you moron...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12518509 - 05/06/10 08:44 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I can also make the exact same argument that you could possibly be a murderer and thus must be stopped now.  Get in the car.


If there was probable cause that I might be a murderer, then it would make sense to stop me--this really shouldn't be that hard to understand. :shrug:

Why did you exclude what that was in response to?  WHY DID YOU CHOP THE PARAGRAPH TO EXCLUDE ESSENTIAL CONTENT?  I didn't expect that of you.  Others certainly.  You?  My respect for you has diminished.  I previously thought you were just weak.  Now I think you are weak and dishonest.  Here is the full paragraph:

Quote:

The only fantasy I see is from you who is convicted law enforcers of improper acts before they even have a chance to amake them.  You are making a prior argument that becase it is popssible for cops to abuse their opsition they will.  I can also make the exact same argument that you could possibly be a murderer and thus must be stopped now.  Get in the car.




Not good.




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Who cares if Mexico has the same type, or even harsher immigration laws? Nobody from the US is going to want to immigrate to Mexico anyways, I would think those laws are mostly there to punish people who enter Mexico from their southern border.




So what?  This merely points out the fact that the Mexican government actively supports the infiltration of our southern border.


I'm not sure how you gathered that from what I said there, care to explain?

It has nothing to do with what you said.  Are you not aware that the Mexican government actively supports the infiltration of our border?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I think we should allow exactly zero legal immigrants from Mexico until they change their official policy.  There are more than enough Domnicans and Poes to replace them.


Why should our immigration policy depend on their own policies?

Are you saying that there are more than enough Dominicans and Poes to replace Mexicans in the US?

Our immigration policy doesn't depend on their's.  It is to point out the hypocrisy of their president.

I have no desire to replace one country's illegals with another country's illegals.  I want to forbid all immigration, legal or otherwise, from Mexico until their government ceases actively subverting our laws.  Then we can replace their legal immigrants with legal immigrants from other countries.  First and foremost is NO ILLEGALS AT ALL.




Quote:


I don't totally agree with current US immigration law, but I agree there is nothing inherently wrong with simple enforcement of existing law--it's how people go about this enforcement that can be controversial.




In my experience cops are much better people than the general population.  By far.


In my experience, there generally are good and bad people in basically every demographic--I have met a good amount of nice police officers who seemed like genuinely good people, but most of them aren't like that; nice people seem to be a rarity in all demographics.

And I have found exactly the opposite.  That most cops are genuinely good people.  Nice?  I don't think they can be or should be.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

You've never had your rights stepped on by an officer, have you? :strokebeard:




Nope.  Because I am not a fucking stupid douche.  Are you?


What would being a stupid douche have to do with having your rights stepped on?

Almost everything. 



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I'm of Mexican descent, and I don't have a problem with this law.


I am 100% Mexican (although I was born and raised here in the US), and I do have a problem with this law. :shrug:




That isn't me


Quote:


That's pretty foolish.  How d you feel an]bout the fact that all these infiltartors have made you a suspect?  If they weren't coming over in wave after wave of greedy little sneaks you wouldn't be under suspicion by any rational person.  Or maybe it is just that you think we should let them all in.


You have an incredible amount of faith in police officers, it's really sort of funny. :lol:

It is my experience.  In all of my personal encounters with police they have been 100% respectful of my rights.  Even when they arrested me.



I don't think we should just "let them all in", I think there could be a better way to solve this problem. These people come here for many different reasons, most of them come here just so they can make enough money to eat and feed their families--it's pretty much a life or death situation for them.

Maybethey should stay the fuck home and fix their own shitholes.  Has it occurred to you that because the most ambitious people are abdicating from their own countries they are doing even more damage to Mexico than to the US?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

You are a completely law abiding citizen? Do you use any drugs, speed on the freeway, bike on the wrong side of the road, spit on the sidewalk, J-walk across the street, or commit any other victimless crimes?




Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime.  We are all victims of it, including every single person who would like to come legally.


Our economy has also benefited from it in some ways.

Nowhere near enough to overcome the damage.  Not even close.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

You have a camera, a recorder on your phone, and a lawyer? Good for you! :super:

Most people who have their rights stepped on by police don't have any of that shit.


  Most people who get hassled by the police fucking deserve it.  By far.


Why would you say that?

Because they are stupid douches who provoke them or break the law.  You do realize that if you break the law you should be hassled by the police, right?  Also arrested.  Sheesh. 



Quote:

No, actually, we do not any sort of responsibility. It is law enforcement's responsibility to protect our rights, but that's never going to happen in a country where police officers are allowed, and even encouraged to lie to citizens.


  Stupid drivel.  They get prosecuted for lying in court.  As far as what they tell you outside of that, well, tough shit.  You have the right to remain silent.  You should use it.  They even have to remind you of it, for some idiotic reason.


If you don't speak, and just ignore them, they usually consider it disrespectful, and give you a hard time and harass you. It doesn't matter if they can't lie to you in court, if they're able to lie to you in order to trick you into somehow admitting that you've committed a crime.

Only court matters.  You have the right to remain silent. 



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Wow, you're excusing the government for essentially breaking the law by trampling on peoples' rights, and putting the blame on the citizenry? Are you fucking retarded? :flowstone:




If your rights get trampled you have recourse.  You could actually make big money.  Go for it.


That's the only good thing about having your rights being trampled by asshole cops. :money:

Good luck.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12518518 - 05/06/10 08:46 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

dshow said:
Annapurna you are rediculous. Next time you post a topic please look into it. This is a topic for the big boys, run along.

H
Quote:

no doubt polls will show overwhelming public support for the AZ statute in all parts of the country...but all that means is that we are reverting to being an overtly racist society.. with AZ having passed what is by far the most racist legislation since the japanese internment...





OVERLY racist? lol wow. I guess it would look that way when we have a few people out there like you who point the racist finger to anyone non-liberal. The word is so overused now days by people like you that what the hell does it even mean anymore? your racist for being for it and racist for being against. stop.

For the second part of AZ being racist and all the people complaining about AZ passing this bill.  Do you know what Affirmative Action is??? der... der...




it says OVERTLY..not OVERLY..you moron...




Unfortunately for you his misperception of what you wrote has more validity than what you did write.  Also

:banbanban:


--------------------


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Male


Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: dshow]
    #12518519 - 05/06/10 08:47 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dshow said:
For the second part of AZ being racist and all the people complaining about AZ passing this bill.  Do you know what Affirmative Action is??? der... der...



Affirmative Action is a good point that I didn't think of. It is obviously one of the most racist things in America. Good point


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12518596 - 05/06/10 09:01 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
identity theft, fraud, these arent petty crimes


Not all of them commit those crimes, do you have any source which shows how many of them actually do?




100% of them commit fraud when they enter illegally.  It is a fraudulent act.  100% of them who get jobs on the books are also committing fraud and almost all are committing identity theft when they produce a false Soc Sec number.  Any that work off the books commit tax evasion.
Quote:

 



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




cant happen, mexican is a nationality, not a race...


How does this stop it from happening?


 

It doesn't because there is nothing for it to stop.
Quote:




Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...although La Raza would like us to believe mexicans are the only 'race'


I'm not sure what you're talking about, or where you get that idea--"Raza" is just a term some Hispanic people use for each other, similarly to how blacks say "nigga", or hippies say "brah".




Is this a joke?  Do you really not know what La Raza is?  If that is the case you have zero business opining on any ,atters regarding Mexican immigration, legal or not.

Quote:



Quote:

DieCommie said:
Thats a great point that people often mess up.  Mexican is not a race.  Mexico is a multi-ethnic nation, like all nations in the western hemisphere.  There are white mexicans, there are brown mexicans, there are black mexicans.  Most mexicans are somewhere between white and brown.


For some reason, it seems to be the brown ones who are more likely to be racially profiled.




So you say.  Pris should be nervous, then.  Somehow he doesn't seem to be.
Quote:




 
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Hell, when I was growing up in arizona I would get harassed by hispanic cops because I dressed like a hippie and not a chollo.


I think that's sort of fucked up--some law enforcement officials in that area encourage the "chollo" stereotype. :nonono:




And some cops around here know that a white boy in a car in Washington Heights is a suspect.  And they're right.


--------------------


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12518615 - 05/06/10 09:04 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Thats a great point that people often mess up.  Mexican is not a race.  Mexico is a multi-ethnic nation, like all nations in the western hemisphere.  There are white mexicans, there are brown mexicans, there are black mexicans.  Most mexicans are somewhere between white and brown.


For some reason, it seems to be the brown ones who are more likely to be racially profiled.






Youre just making shit up.


Edited by DieCommie (05/06/10 09:12 PM)


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Offlinedshow
Nomad
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Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 5,255
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12518651 - 05/06/10 09:11 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it says OVERTLY..not OVERLY..you moron...


  missed the "T" but get my point?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12519114 - 05/06/10 10:30 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
identity theft, fraud, these arent petty crimes


Not all of them commit those crimes, do you have any source which shows how many of them actually do?




do you have any source that shows how many dont?

they're illegals, they dont stand up and exclaim that they have stolen
people's identity in order to further their cause, seems that identity
theft is a fucking felony or some shit



Quote:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




cant happen, mexican is a nationality, not a race...


How does this stop it from happening?




because you cant racially profile a nationality, can I be profiled as an
american, americans come in a multitude of colors, even hispanics come
in a variety of colors and many hispanics are american

Quote:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...although La Raza would like us to believe mexicans are the only 'race'


I'm not sure what you're talking about, or where you get that idea--"Raza" is just a term some Hispanic people use for each other, similarly to how blacks say "nigga", or hippies say "brah".






ok

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Raza
In the Spanish language the term La Raza literally means "the race"



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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12519561 - 05/06/10 11:43 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

lol @ this is are land


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: DieCommie]
    #12519621 - 05/06/10 11:56 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

that it am!


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12523899 - 05/07/10 09:22 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Yeah, a petty criminal.




And what should we do with the petty criminal?  A little jail, a little confscation of his criminally procured gains and a nice ride to the coast of Antarctica.


You can't be serious. :picard:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

What does that have to do with anything?




It was in response to this stupid statement you made:
"There is no difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant, except for the fact that legals have green cards."
It has to do with the fact that they are different people, not just different types of immigrants.  They have more differences than just their legal status.  Don't worry about it.



Yes, and I'm asking you what those differences have to do with anything--do you support racial segregation or something?



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zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




Would you please point out the section of the bill which does that.



There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.




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zappaisgod said:
Quote:

There is an obvious distinction between de jure and de facto law--there are plenty of things that officers get away with which they are not allowed to do; again, this bill just makes it easier for officers to racially profile humans that look Mexican.




Would you please in your bigoted fashion show us just exactly what a Mexican looks like.


WTF are you talking about?

Show us what a Mexican looks like.


It doesn't matter what I think a Mexican looks/behaves like, if a law enforcement officer believes that a certain person is Mexican, and the said officer wants to abuse his/her power, then s/he may racially profile that person.



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zappaisgod said:
Quote:

WTF are you talking about?



In case your bigoted self didn't know it there is also a rather large population of illegal immigrants here from Europe and other places. Yep, it's true.  They gotta go as well.  Why do you bigots always assume that all illegal entrants to this country are brown people?


The fact that AZ, a state on the US/Mexican border, passed this law shows that it was made in response to immigrants coming from Mexico.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I don't hate all cops, I just don't like the way many of them go about performing their duties.




I don't either, although my wording would change "many" to "some".


I can't imagine why--you've never watched the TV show "Cops", have you? :lol:



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zappaisgod said:
Quote:

If it wasn't for cops you would be my sex slave.


:gayflag:

Quote:

I thought you were a woman, what with your aimless contentiousness.





Nice save. :congrats:



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zappaisgod said:
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All I'm saying is that this law seems to encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans--I wouldn't be surprised if the rate of racial profiling by cops against Mexicans starts to rise in Arizona, would you?




Yes.  I think it will make exactly zero difference.  You're just bigoted against cops.


Why would you be surprised, what, to you, would be surprising about that?

I already said that I'm not bigoted against cops--just like you, I've met several respectful cops who seemed like good people. Like in any demographic, the good ones are rarer than the bad ones.


By your logic, I am bigoted against every group since I don't like most members of each group.



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zappaisgod said:
Quote:

It's not fallacious, there is probable cause to believe that racial profiling against Mexicans might occur more frequently as a result of this bill being passed.




No, there isn't.


Yes there is, and I've already explained why--it's not like a bill that's in support of racial profiling is going to explicitly state its goal. This bill was made in reaction to the escalating violence coming form Mexico around the US/Mexico border, and thus, its aim is mainly to get rid of as many of these people from our borders as possible.

From this, it is logical to assume that this bill could potentially increase the incidence of racial profiling by law enforcement officials against Mexicans.



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zappaisgod said:
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Let me repeat, these laws are just going to encourage police officers to watch over Mexican humans more than they watch over any other ethnicity--what strikes me as odd is that you're Mexican, and you show no sign that you are not OK with this. :confused:



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You keep repeating a fantasy.  Not the fantasy that I am Mexican but that this is de facto going to encourage racial profiling.





That was in response to Simplicitry--you still haven't shown me why you would be surprised if racial profiling increases as a result of this bill.

 

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

No, I think that cops should not look over white peoples' shoulders disproportionately, and instead pay attention to other, more relevant details of an individual before a security investigation is conducted on them.




But securities law encourages racial profiling, according to your model of thinking, which posits that just because a certain race is more likely to commit a crime any law prohibiting that crime is discriminatory.


How is that my model of thinking? There are rich people of every race, and to me it doesn't make sense to go after only white people when investigating securities fraud.



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zappaisgod said:
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I didn't say that they will, I said that it is somewhat likely that they will--there is a huge difference between the two, and if you cannot understand and/or comprehend it, then that is just plain funny. :smirk:




So your whole premise for declaring this bill improper is that it is "somewhat likely" that it might be abused, in your bigoted opinion, by LEOs?  There is not a single law written anywhere that is not "somewhat likely" to be abused.  You have chopped your own argument into oblivion.  Death knell.


Was this new law even necessary? I bet that this law isn't going to decrease immigration rates, it seems like it was just made to show the rest of the country where they stand on the issue--it's pure politics.


I'm not sure that the bill itself is improper, rather, the entire message that passing this bill conveys is what's important--as usual, you are missing the bigger picture.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12524012 - 05/07/10 09:44 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

If there was probable cause that I might be a murderer, then it would make sense to stop me--this really shouldn't be that hard to understand. :shrug:




Why did you exclude what that was in response to?  WHY DID YOU CHOP THE PARAGRAPH TO EXCLUDE ESSENTIAL CONTENT?  I didn't expect that of you.  Others certainly.  You?  My respect for you has diminished.  I previously thought you were just weak.  Now I think you are weak and dishonest.


I chopped that part because it was just unnecessary rhetoric--the last two sentences made your point well enough. 



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zappaisgod said:
Here is the full paragraph:

Quote:

The only fantasy I see is from you who is convicted law enforcers of improper acts before they even have a chance to amake them.  You are making a prior argument that becase it is popssible for cops to abuse their opsition they will.  I can also make the exact same argument that you could possibly be a murderer and thus must be stopped now.  Get in the car.




Not good.


You keep ignoring that, first of all, I have not "convicted" LEOs of improper acts, I'm just noting the likelihood that they may commit those said acts, and second of all, that I have probably cause to do so.



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zappaisgod said:
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So what?  This merely points out the fact that the Mexican government actively supports the infiltration of our southern border.


I'm not sure how you gathered that from what I said there, care to explain?




It has nothing to do with what you said.  Are you not aware that the Mexican government actively supports the infiltration of our border?


Source?



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zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Why should our immigration policy depend on their own policies?

Are you saying that there are more than enough Dominicans and Poes to replace Mexicans in the US?




Our immigration policy doesn't depend on their's.  It is to point out the hypocrisy of their president.

I have no desire to replace one country's illegals with another country's illegals.  I want to forbid all immigration, legal or otherwise, from Mexico until their government ceases actively subverting our laws.  Then we can replace their legal immigrants with legal immigrants from other countries.  First and foremost is NO ILLEGALS AT ALL.



You're saying that their government actively subverts our laws, when in reality, it is independent parties whom are not endorsed by their government that crossing our border--show me that the Mexican government actively subverts our laws.



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zappaisgod said:
Quote:

]In my experience, there generally are good and bad people in basically every demographic--I have met a good amount of nice police officers who seemed like genuinely good people, but most of them aren't like that; nice people seem to be a rarity in all demographics.




And I have found exactly the opposite.  That most cops are genuinely good people.  Nice?  I don't think they can be or should be.



It's probably because you're rich, cops tend to be more harsh towards poor people, whether or not they've committed a crime--how's that for convicting people of improper acts before they even make them? :owned:


Why don't you think police officers should be nice?



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zappaisgod said:
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What would being a stupid douche have to do with having your rights stepped on?




Almost everything.


Great, you're in support douches having less rights than non-douches--so much for equal rights. :rolleyes: 



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zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I'm of Mexican descent, and I don't have a problem with this law.


I am 100% Mexican (although I was born and raised here in the US), and I do have a problem with this law. :shrug:




That isn't me


Yeah, that was Simplicitry.



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zappaisgod said:
Quote:

You have an incredible amount of faith in police officers, it's really sort of funny. :lol:




It is my experience.  In all of my personal encounters with police they have been 100% respectful of my rights.  Even when they arrested me.


Maybe they could just tell that you were intelligent and knew your rights well enough, they usually trample on, like you say, douche's rights because it's easier for them to do so, I guess. :shrug:



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zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I don't think we should just "let them all in", I think there could be a better way to solve this problem. These people come here for many different reasons, most of them come here just so they can make enough money to eat and feed their families--it's pretty much a life or death situation for them.




Maybethey should stay the fuck home and fix their own shitholes.  Has it occurred to you that because the most ambitious people are abdicating from their own countries they are doing even more damage to Mexico than to the US?


Maybe they can't fix their own shitholes, and don't give a shit about their government. :shrug2:



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zappaisgod said:
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Our economy has also benefited from it in some ways.




Nowhere near enough to overcome the damage.  Not even close.


Really? Think about all the things that have been made possible because of Mexican immigration--a boom in agriculture, construction, fast-food, house-cleaning, and other such industries. They wouldn't look nearly the same without illegal Mexican immigrants.



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zappaisgod said:
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Why would you say that?




Because they are stupid douches who provoke them or break the law.


Bullshit, many cops seek out people to bother and harass, not the other way around.



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zappaisgod said:
You do realize that if you break the law you should be hassled by the police, right?  Also arrested.  Sheesh.



I disagree with pretty much every law I break--civil disobedience much? :ghandi: 



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zappaisgod said:
Quote:

]If you don't speak, and just ignore them, they usually consider it disrespectful, and give you a hard time and harass you. It doesn't matter if they can't lie to you in court, if they're able to lie to you in order to trick you into somehow admitting that you've committed a crime.




Only court matters.  You have the right to remain silent.


In the end, only court matters, but on the street, the police are the ones who make the call; get in a bad relationship with them, and you'll see yourself going to court more often, regardless of whether or not you'll be ultimately convicted of the charge. 



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
That's the only good thing about having your rights being trampled by asshole cops. :money:

Good luck.


See you on Wall Street. :gonz:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12524064 - 05/07/10 09:53 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Not all of them commit those crimes, do you have any source which shows how many of them actually do?




100% of them commit fraud when they enter illegally.  It is a fraudulent act.  100% of them who get jobs on the books are also committing fraud and almost all are committing identity theft when they produce a false Soc Sec number.  Any that work off the books commit tax evasion.


I thought that most of them just commit tax evasion, and work under the table as day-laborers or some other such thing. :shrug2:



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zappaisgod said:
Quote:

cant happen, mexican is a nationality, not a race...


How does this stop it from happening?


 

It doesn't because there is nothing for it to stop.


Um, what about racial profiling, maybe? :justdontknow:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I'm not sure what you're talking about, or where you get that idea--"Raza" is just a term some Hispanic people use for each other, similarly to how blacks say "nigga", or hippies say "brah".




Is this a joke?  Do you really not know what La Raza is?  If that is the case you have zero business opining on any ,atters regarding Mexican immigration, legal or not.


I just looked at the Wikipedia page on it--it almost seems like you think there is a conspiracy going on here.


Being Mexican, I've heard the term "Raza" being thrown around between Hispanics in much the same way that "nigga" is thrown around between blacks, so that's my only previous exposure to the term--I didn't know there was a major history behind it. :shrug:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

For some reason, it seems to be the brown ones who are more likely to be racially profiled.




So you say.  Pris should be nervous, then.  Somehow he doesn't seem to be.


I seriously doubt that Pris is brown. :smirk:


 
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I think that's sort of fucked up--some law enforcement officials in that area encourage the "chollo" stereotype. :nonono:




And some cops around here know that a white boy in a car in Washington Heights is a suspect.  And they're right.


I see. You only care if cops are convicted of an act before they commit it, but couldn't give less of a shit if this happens to an average Joe. :bored:



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DieCommie said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Thats a great point that people often mess up.  Mexican is not a race.  Mexico is a multi-ethnic nation, like all nations in the western hemisphere.  There are white mexicans, there are brown mexicans, there are black mexicans.  Most mexicans are somewhere between white and brown.


For some reason, it seems to be the brown ones who are more likely to be racially profiled.






Youre just making shit up.


You really think so, eh?



Quote:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




cant happen, mexican is a nationality, not a race...


How does this stop it from happening?




because you cant racially profile a nationality, can I be profiled as an
american, americans come in a multitude of colors, even hispanics come
in a variety of colors and many hispanics are american


Hispanics from the Nation of Mexico are profiled by their common appearance, much like any other people from any other nation can be grouped by their common appearance.



Quote:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...although La Raza would like us to believe mexicans are the only 'race'


I'm not sure what you're talking about, or where you get that idea--"Raza" is just a term some Hispanic people use for each other, similarly to how blacks say "nigga", or hippies say "brah".






ok

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Raza
In the Spanish language the term La Raza literally means "the race"




I know it means "the race", but I think you're taking that term a little too seriously--most Hispanics I've met don't literally believe that they are the race...:rolleyes:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12524261 - 05/07/10 10:32 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.





This is the most ignorant argument of all, and it's the argument you've focused on the most. Did it ever occur to you that racist police officers who had no respect for peoples constitutional rights were already racially profiling people. As long as we have racists cops who don't respect constitutional rights there will always be racial profiling in spite of this bill.

What you really have to ask yourself is, Where is racial profiling in the bill? You already answered, it isn't. What about rouge officers who racially profile people? They existed before this bill passed and subjected people to their racist, unconstitutional behavior before this bill as well. 

You have a legitimate concern about an issue that has nothing to do with enforcing our immigration laws. And for the record people of all different backgrounds have their rights trampled by law enforcement in the current state of affairs we find ourselves in. Start a thread on it.


Simply put a racist cop who wants to racially profile already had powers he could abuse to do so. This law doesn't change that. Mostly because this laws focus was illegal immigration, not rouge police.

I would only agree that we need to pass legislation that takes care of such police officers

These are the facts that remain.

What the United States Supreme Court held in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, was that a state could make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself (i.e., tell the officer his name and address) when lawfully detained for criminal activity. Note that the Supreme Court did NOT say that any kind of identification papers could be required. There is no law in the United States requiring everybody to carry ID, at least not yet.

You have to be committing a criminal activity or operating a motor vehicle to be required by law to show your identification.

So no they can't shake down Mexicans based on the ethnicity.

This applies to whites, Asians, blacks and Hispanics alike

The Bill http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Where was the part about people being required to have ID on that all time
Where's the part about road stops checking peoples ID's
There not there. You apparently just choose to make things up

This is a little thing call fact that many people like to over look because when it contradicts there view point.


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


Edited by Simplicitry (05/07/10 10:39 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Poid]
    #12524759 - 05/08/10 12:27 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Yeah, a petty criminal.




And what should we do with the petty criminal?  A little jail, a little confscation of his criminally procured gains and a nice ride to the coast of Antarctica.


You can't be serious. :picard:

100%.  Do you think he should get to keep his ill gotten gains?  Get off scot free?  Bussed right back to the nearest border crossing over which he wil hop yet again?.  No, get out and stay out.  I believe repeat border jumping becomes a felony, by the way.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

What does that have to do with anything?




It was in response to this stupid statement you made:
"There is no difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant, except for the fact that legals have green cards."
It has to do with the fact that they are different people, not just different types of immigrants.  They have more differences than just their legal status.  Don't worry about it.



Yes, and I'm asking you what those differences have to do with anything--do you support racial segregation or something?

:flowstone:Do I really have to point out that some of them are also violent criminals, drive without licenses and insurance, are pregnant or ill and come just to suck services, are from Eastern Europe or any other place not Mexico?


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I didn't say there was, I said that this bill would encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans.




Would you please point out the section of the bill which does that.



There isn't a section that says that, I just predict that, since AZ is the type of state that would pass this kind of law, then its law enforcement officials would be more than happy to use it as an excuse to abuse their power--if you need evidence that law enforcement officials tend to abuse their power, then you will just have to find it yourself.
Then you are clearly against all laws, because they can all be abused.  Which is of course an idiotic position to take.




Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

There is an obvious distinction between de jure and de facto law--there are plenty of things that officers get away with which they are not allowed to do; again, this bill just makes it easier for officers to racially profile humans that look Mexican.




Would you please in your bigoted fashion show us just exactly what a Mexican looks like.


WTF are you talking about?

Figure it out, bigot.
Show us what a Mexican looks like.


It doesn't matter what I think a Mexican looks/behaves like, if a law enforcement officer believes that a certain person is Mexican, and the said officer wants to abuse his/her power, then s/he may racially profile that person.

Except that is expressly forbidden.  Do you know anything at all about this bill?



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

WTF are you talking about?



In case your bigoted self didn't know it there is also a rather large population of illegal immigrants here from Europe and other places. Yep, it's true.  They gotta go as well.  Why do you bigots always assume that all illegal entrants to this country are brown people?


The fact that AZ, a state on the US/Mexican border, passed this law shows that it was made in response to immigrants coming from Mexico.

Oh does it?  Maybe it just shows that Arizona has a particularly huge problem with illegal immigrants, some of whom happen to be from Mexico, and that the federal government has disgracefully abdicated its responsibility to police our borders.  Where they come from is of no relevance.  Nothng in the law singles out Mexicans.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I don't hate all cops, I just don't like the way many of them go about performing their duties.




I don't either, although my wording would change "many" to "some".


I can't imagine why--you've never watched the TV show "Cops", have you? :lol:

I don't see any abuse on COPS



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

If it wasn't for cops you would be my sex slave.


:gayflag:

Quote:

I thought you were a woman, what with your aimless contentiousness.





Nice save. :congrats:

Thank you.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

All I'm saying is that this law seems to encourage police officers to racially profile Mexicans--I wouldn't be surprised if the rate of racial profiling by cops against Mexicans starts to rise in Arizona, would you?




Yes.  I think it will make exactly zero difference.  You're just bigoted against cops.


Why would you be surprised, what, to you, would be surprising about that?

Where did I express surprise that you were bigoted against cops?

I already said that I'm not bigoted against cops--just like you, I've met several respectful cops who seemed like good people. Like in any demographic, the good ones are rarer than the bad ones.

You've said it but then you repeat your bigotry.


By your logic, I am bigoted against every group since I don't like most members of each group.

That's pretty pitiful and explains a lot.  Like your pointless contentiousness.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

It's not fallacious, there is probable cause to believe that racial profiling against Mexicans might occur more frequently as a result of this bill being passed.




No, there isn't.


Yes there is, and I've already explained why--it's not like a bill that's in support of racial profiling is going to explicitly state its goal. This bill was made in reaction to the escalating violence coming form Mexico around the US/Mexico border, and thus, its aim is mainly to get rid of as many of these people from our borders as possible.

You've had made assertions that can be applied to any law ever written.  I really don't care how many times you say the same stupid shit.  It doesn't get any more accurate.  And shouldn't the fucking federal government be doing this already, since there have been identical federal laws on the books for decades?

From this, it is logical to assume that this bill could potentially increase the incidence of racial profiling by law enforcement officials against Mexicans.

Any law could potentially be abused.  That is no reason not to pass laws.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Let me repeat, these laws are just going to encourage police officers to watch over Mexican humans more than they watch over any other ethnicity--what strikes me as odd is that you're Mexican, and you show no sign that you are not OK with this. :confused:



Quote:

You keep repeating a fantasy.  Not the fantasy that I am Mexican but that this is de facto going to encourage racial profiling.





That was in response to Simplicitry--you still haven't shown me why you would be surprised if racial profiling increases as a result of this bill.

Because, yet again, it is expressly forbidden.

 

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

No, I think that cops should not look over white peoples' shoulders disproportionately, and instead pay attention to other, more relevant details of an individual before a security investigation is conducted on them.




But securities law encourages racial profiling, according to your model of thinking, which posits that just because a certain race is more likely to commit a crime any law prohibiting that crime is discriminatory.


How is that my model of thinking? There are rich people of every race, and to me it doesn't make sense to go after only white people when investigating securities fraud.

Your model of thinking seems to be that if a particular race is more likely to violate a certain law then that law is de facto racist and an invitation for abuse on racial grounds.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

I didn't say that they will, I said that it is somewhat likely that they will--there is a huge difference between the two, and if you cannot understand and/or comprehend it, then that is just plain funny. :smirk:




So your whole premise for declaring this bill improper is that it is "somewhat likely" that it might be abused, in your bigoted opinion, by LEOs?  There is not a single law written anywhere that is not "somewhat likely" to be abused.  You have chopped your own argument into oblivion.  Death knell.


Was this new law even necessary? I bet that this law isn't going to decrease immigration rates, it seems like it was just made to show the rest of the country where they stand on the issue--it's pure politics.

It was necessary because it charged the Arizona law enforcement agencies to do only that which the federal government was already responsible to perform but refused to.  The state of Arizona got sick and tired of waiting for the feds to do what they are supposed to  and decided they woud damn well do it themselves, then.


I'm not sure that the bill itself is improper, rather, the entire message that passing this bill conveys is what's important--as usual, you are missing the bigger picture.




No.  That is not what's important.  What's important is to stem the horribly debilitory tide of law breaking assholes who the federal government has refused to deal with


--------------------


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