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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12449062 - 04/24/10 02:12 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Of course it doesn't say that in the law. I never said it did. Are you thick? I spoke only of enforcement.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449111 - 04/24/10 02:18 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

The clause in question is:

Quote:

20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).




What will lead to this reasonable suspicion? It is arbitrary and seems like an enforcement nightmare.


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449121 - 04/24/10 02:19 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I never said it did. Are you thick? I spoke only of enforcement.




Quote:

Redstorm said:
How will a police officer know when to ask someone for their immigration card and, if they do ask for it and the person says they are a American-born citizen, whether or not they are telling the truth?




Are you thick?


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449144 - 04/24/10 02:22 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
The clause in question is:

Quote:

20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).




What will lead to this reasonable suspicion? It is arbitrary and seems like an enforcement nightmare.




Police officers ask American citizens of all different ethnicities for identification for different purposes all the time. If you can't provide identification that would be a reasonable suspicion. Get it?


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12449158 - 04/24/10 02:24 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Once again, I will spell it out for you. I'll even type it in caps if that helps your comprehension.

I NEVER SAID IT SAID THAT IN THE LAW. I ONLY SPOKE OF ENFORCEMENT. DE FACTO LAW AND DE JURE LAW ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12449169 - 04/24/10 02:26 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
The clause in question is:

Quote:

20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).




What will lead to this reasonable suspicion? It is arbitrary and seems like an enforcement nightmare.




Police officers ask American citizens of all different ethnicities for identification for different purposes all the time. If you can't provide identification that would be a reasonable suspicion. Get it?




Amazingly enough, immigrants can get driver's licenses too. How do they know who to ask for immigration papers?


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
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Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449362 - 04/24/10 03:01 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Once again, I will spell it out for you. I'll even type it in caps if that helps your comprehension.

I NEVER SAID IT SAID THAT IN THE LAW. I ONLY SPOKE OF ENFORCEMENT. DE FACTO LAW AND DE JURE LAW ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.




You said it right here! I quoted you below!

Quote:

Redstorm said:
If I believed this would be enforced fairly (or at all), I would be all for this.

Unfortunately, how can you tell illegal immigrants from legal immigrant, or individuals born here? How will a police officer know when to ask someone for their immigration card and, if they do ask for it and the person says they are a American-born citizen, whether or not they are telling the truth?




--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Male


Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449372 - 04/24/10 03:03 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
The clause in question is:

Quote:

20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).




What will lead to this reasonable suspicion? It is arbitrary and seems like an enforcement nightmare.




Police officers ask American citizens of all different ethnicities for identification for different purposes all the time. If you can't provide identification that would be a reasonable suspicion. Get it?




Amazingly enough, immigrants can get driver's licenses too. How do they know who to ask for immigration papers?




Have a link to that law that gives illegal immigrants the right to a drivers license.

Oh!!! that's right you just like making unsubstantiated claims!!!:laugh2:


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #12449424 - 04/24/10 03:14 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
i doubt that any swedes would be stupid enough to want to live in a country infested with neo-nazi thugs...in any case..you still dont know how many swedes are here illegally...




they already do, sweden has plenty of neo nazi twats running around,
there's more than 20 million illegals here from almost every nation, more
than 100k canadian illegals are among them, is it still racist when it
applies to anyone with an undocumented status?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12449496 - 04/24/10 03:27 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


Have a link to that law that gives illegal immigrants the right to a drivers license.

Oh!!! that's right you just like making unsubstantiated claims!!!:laugh2:




Quote:

As it stands, a hodgepodge of laws govern whether illegal immigrants can lawfully drive in the United States. Ten states (Hawaii, Illinois, Michigan, Montana, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oregon, Utah, Washington and Wisconsin) do not require license applicants to demonstrate that they are lawfully present in the United States, in effect granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. Most of those states do require applicants to present an identification card issued by their home country.





http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=15696

I'm not sure which of these states has changed their laws since this was written, though.

What this demonstrates is that it is on a state to state basis whether or not they ask for documentation of citizenship when requesting a license.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12449507 - 04/24/10 03:29 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
Once again, I will spell it out for you. I'll even type it in caps if that helps your comprehension.

I NEVER SAID IT SAID THAT IN THE LAW. I ONLY SPOKE OF ENFORCEMENT. DE FACTO LAW AND DE JURE LAW ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.




You said it right here! I quoted you below!

Quote:

Redstorm said:
If I believed this would be enforced fairly (or at all), I would be all for this.

Unfortunately, how can you tell illegal immigrants from legal immigrant, or individuals born here? How will a police officer know when to ask someone for their immigration card and, if they do ask for it and the person says they are a American-born citizen, whether or not they are telling the truth?







Are you fucking blind? Do you read the English language? Where do I say anything about the law that does not deal with enforcement? Just to make it easier for you, just go ahead and bold the part where I did that.

It should be easy as pie if you knew what the fuck you were talking about.


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Offlinenumonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!

Registered: 04/12/06
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12449511 - 04/24/10 03:30 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Oh shit, Zappa's getting deported?

:nonono:



~Monk


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Male


Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449618 - 04/24/10 03:51 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:


Have a link to that law that gives illegal immigrants the right to a drivers license.

Oh!!! that's right you just like making unsubstantiated claims!!!:laugh2:




Quote:

As it stands, a hodgepodge of laws govern whether illegal immigrants can lawfully drive in the United States. Ten states (Hawaii, Illinois, Michigan, Montana, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oregon, Utah, Washington and Wisconsin) do not require license applicants to demonstrate that they are lawfully present in the United States, in effect granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. Most of those states do require applicants to present an identification card issued by their home country.





http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=15696

I'm not sure which of these states has changed their laws since this was written, though.

What this demonstrates is that it is on a state to state basis whether or not they ask for documentation of citizenship when requesting a license.



This is not a link to a laws text, so it doesn't substantiate what you said.


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Redstorm]
    #12449643 - 04/24/10 03:55 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:

Amazingly enough, immigrants can get driver's licenses too. How do they know who to ask for immigration papers?





immigrants have a green card as well, illegal aliens do not and are not
supposed to be issued drivers licenses since they have no social security
number or INS number


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OfflineJT
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12450385 - 04/24/10 07:05 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

what happens if you're a latino US citizen, and you are stopped walking down the street and don't have your driver's license on you. do they cuff you and bring you down to the station to verify that you're a citizen?


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: JT]
    #12450478 - 04/24/10 07:24 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
what happens if you're a latino US citizen, and you are stopped walking down the street and don't have your driver's license on you. do they cuff you and bring you down to the station to verify that you're a citizen?



That would be against the law for a police officer to do that.

First, what the United States Supreme Court said. What the United States Supreme Court held in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, was that a state could make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself (i.e., tell the officer his name and address) when lawfully detained for criminal activity. Note that the Supreme Court did NOT say that any kind of identification papers could be required, nor did they say that police officers could ordinarily arrest someone for refusing to identify himself absent a state law permitting that arrest. There is no law in the United States requiring everybody to carry ID, at least not yet.

You have to be commiting a criminal activity or operating a motor vehicle to be required by law to show your identification.

So no

This applies to whites, asians, blacks and hispanics alike


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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OfflineJT
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #12450797 - 04/24/10 08:36 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

sure, they don't have to carry identification...just proof that they are citizens. big difference, right?

and let's cut the shit...we know that in arizona, the target is illegal mexican immigrants. even though the law does not specifically mention them, it would be naive to say that they aren't going to be targeted more than whites.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: JT]
    #12450845 - 04/24/10 08:49 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
sure, they don't have to carry identification...just proof that they are citizens. big difference, right?





under existing laws immigrantrs are required to always keep in their possession their immigration residence  card, so what's actually changed?


Quote:

and let's cut the shit...we know that in arizona, the target is illegal mexican immigrants. even though the law does not specifically mention them, it would be naive to say that they aren't going to be targeted more than whites.





so guatamalans, equadorans, bolivians, etc... are all exempt from the laws?


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12450856 - 04/24/10 08:51 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
i doubt that any swedes would be stupid enough to want to live in a country infested with neo-nazi thugs...in any case..you still dont know how many swedes are here illegally...




they already do, sweden has plenty of neo nazi twats running around,
there's more than 20 million illegals here from almost every nation, more
than 100k canadian illegals are among them, is it still racist when it
applies to anyone with an undocumented status?




but the AZ statute doesnt apply to "anyone with an undocumented status".. it is specifically aimed at ppl who merely look like they might fall into that category...if a swedish illegal immigrant and a hispanic or asian US citizen are both walking down the street in phoenix.. then the innocent party is subject to police harassment under the new law.. while the guilty party slips by unnoticed...as such..one could argue that the new law violates the 14th amendment privileges and immunities clause...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineJT
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Registered: 03/01/07
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Re: AZ passes racist immigration law... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12450899 - 04/24/10 09:02 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:under existing laws immigrantrs are required to always keep in their possession their immigration residence  card, so what's actually changed?




immigrants. not citizens. the citizens will be profiled along with the immigrants.


Quote:

so guatamalans, equadorans, bolivians, etc... are all exempt from the laws?




no...


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