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OfflineKush Technician
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Registered: 04/22/10
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Mescaline salts from tar??
    #12437741 - 04/22/10 12:43 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Hello Shroomery,

I just registered after reading numerous Mescaline teks.  I have a suggestion that may make mescaline/alkaloids even easier to obtain from cactus, but have not seen anybody else doing this, so I wonder if it is even possible.

The majority are a/b teks and others are various versions on the alcohol tek.  I wonder why not use the product of the alcohol tek to make mescaline hcl, acetate, sulfate, etc?  Is it possible?

The problem with a/b teks is the smell, caustic chemicals, emulsion layer, time, and number of steps required. 

What if someone soaked the first frozen, then dried, and finally, powdered cactus in alcohol (maybe 91% isopropanol) and filtered in the usual alcohol tek, but then before evaporating, added HCL or H2SO4 to the solution, therein "salting" the freebase mescaline, and then placing in the freezer to form a crystalline precipitate. Could that work?

Another thought:  what if one took the tar from a normal alc tek but then re-dissolved the tar in something like d-limonene or xylene.  Then you'd proceed with the normal "salting" step from an a/b tek.  Can this work?

Also, it seems there would be plant fats in the tar, so adding xylene to the tar may just cause more emulsion, no?  Can the tar be "de-fatted" in any way?  With a preliminary acetone wash of the powdered cactus, perhaps?

With all this, I hope to avoid the need to separate a basic aq layer from a solvent layer since the emulsion layer has in the past caused much difficulty.  At the very least, I would like to avoid the emulsion layer.

I hope this post makes sense and that some of you can add to the discussion.  I would simply like to find a new way to extract that is even easier than an a/b tek, but same great results, or even better results possibly.

Kush Technician

Edited by Kush Technician (04/23/10 11:15 AM)

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OfflineKush Technician
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Re: Mescaline salts from tar?? [Re: Kush Technician]
    #12443229 - 04/23/10 11:27 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

So I am thinking that I might need to do an acetone prewash of the powdered cactus. Then do an alcohol extraction.  Then do an acid/base extraction using the resulting tar. By extracting only from the tar which has been cleaned by acetone, would this eliminate an emulsion layer in the a/b tek?

Is there any way to avoid the emulsion layer better?  I have tried performing the extractions in hot water baths and even in the microwave, but these methods didn't work to reduce or eliminate the emulsion layer.

Getting back to the original post though, it would be great if someone who understands the chemistry could suggest how to make the salts directly from the tar.  I have not seen this done anywhere, so maybe there is an obvious reason that I am missing for why it isn't done.

Thanks

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Offlinemattritt
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Re: Mescaline salts from tar?? [Re: Kush Technician]
    #12443736 - 04/23/10 12:59 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Sounds plausible.  My guess would be that you'd end up salting a bunch of extra alkaloids with it.  Id imagine this could be cleaned up with acetone and IPA (for HCl) or with cold MEK (for acetate) though so I don't really see why it wouldnt work. 

If you have an account over at the DMT-Nexus I'd imagine they'd be able to help you much more as the site is dedicated to chemistry much more than this one.  They also have a cacti forum which you can post in if you have an old enough account for full membership, if not you can still post in the intro-extractions sub forum.  They should be able to tell you what you need to know as they are well versed in the ways of chemistry and with the cacti.


(sorry mods if we can't mention other sites but it would help him greatly)


--------------------
**Metaphysical Crystal, Stones, Gems, and Minerals**
Every individual reacts differently to every chemical.
Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.
:bongload:  :gethigh:  "You need more THC to your brain, faster." - Drr  :gethigh:  :bongload:

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OfflineKush Technician
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Re: Mescaline salts from tar?? [Re: mattritt]
    #12443791 - 04/23/10 01:09 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

ok, dmt-nexus.  I have seen that site as well.  Thank you so much for the help.  I am ok with salting extra alkaloids.  The more the better I think. I am not really going for pure crystals anyway, just a cleaner product than tar itself.

So it should be possible to redissolve the tar in a solvent like d-limonene and then salt from that, or should I do a full a/b tek using the tar?  Or can one take the alcohol liquid extract and before evaporating, just add muriatic or sulfuric or acetic acid to this directly to salt?

Thanks again.

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Offlinemattritt
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Re: Mescaline salts from tar?? [Re: Kush Technician]
    #12443924 - 04/23/10 01:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Id imagine you'll have to base the tar as its most likely in some salt form inside the cacti so it wont dissolve in D-limo i dont think.  Also you won't be able to salt it if its already in salt form.  Id suggest base it, pull with limo, then salt with acid.


--------------------
**Metaphysical Crystal, Stones, Gems, and Minerals**
Every individual reacts differently to every chemical.
Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.
:bongload:  :gethigh:  "You need more THC to your brain, faster." - Drr  :gethigh:  :bongload:

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Invisiblethedudenj
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Re: Mescaline salts from tar?? [Re: mattritt]
    #12444446 - 04/23/10 03:23 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

post in chem forum on here not this one


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InvisibleDoctor_Dick
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Re: Mescaline salts from tar?? [Re: mattritt]
    #12444508 - 04/23/10 03:38 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

tar.
Quote:

mattritt said:
Id imagine you'll have to base the tar as its most likely in some salt form inside the cacti so it wont dissolve in D-limo i dont think.  Also you won't be able to salt it if its already in salt form.  Id suggest base it, pull with limo, then salt with acid.



yeah definitely would need to bacify it first. i can't think of how to do this exactly...usually there is a tek to fallow and you start off basing the cactus powder first, so not sure the ratio of basicifying agent you'd use for tar, and i can't find any info on a search to turn crude tar to a salt. i'd imagine i would dissolve in naoh water and do a/b ion it, then salt it. gl man


--------------------
:minifo:] "This promise constitutes the heart of my Christian beliefs and my call to natural-scientific research: we will attain to knowledge of the universe through the spirit of truth, and thereby to understanding of our being one with the deepest, most comprehensive reality, God."
-Albert Hofmann

Edited by Doctor_Dick (04/23/10 03:39 PM)

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Offlinemattritt
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Re: Mescaline salts from tar?? [Re: Doctor_Dick]
    #12444661 - 04/23/10 04:03 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Yea, lye water and salt sounds like a good option.


--------------------
**Metaphysical Crystal, Stones, Gems, and Minerals**
Every individual reacts differently to every chemical.
Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.
:bongload:  :gethigh:  "You need more THC to your brain, faster." - Drr  :gethigh:  :bongload:

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Invisiblethedudenj
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Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Mescaline salts from tar?? [Re: mattritt]
    #12445098 - 04/23/10 05:02 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

yeah wouldnt you be able to just basify it then do a NPS pull. or would you have to full on acid base to get out stuff that the alcohol pulled out the cacti reguardless wouldnt you lose some actives in such an extraction?


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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InvisibleDoctor_Dick
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Re: Mescaline salts from tar?? [Re: thedudenj]
    #12445664 - 04/23/10 06:23 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

not familiar w/ an nps pull what do u mean? i figured you'd need to seperate the mescaline from the naoh water w/ a solvent (limonene), then seperate it from that w/ whatever u wanna salt w/


--------------------
:minifo:] "This promise constitutes the heart of my Christian beliefs and my call to natural-scientific research: we will attain to knowledge of the universe through the spirit of truth, and thereby to understanding of our being one with the deepest, most comprehensive reality, God."
-Albert Hofmann

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