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 xFrockx
 
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,458
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 18 hours, 34 minutes
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 The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance   2
#12414911 - 04/18/10 01:25 PM (14 years, 2 days ago) |
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What is reflex?
What do you mean by "Frock?"
Define "the."
I've noticed people that I've argued with a lot picking this up seemingly without any comprehension of why they are using it. It is, in this usage, a defense mechanism rather than a comprehensible method of argumentation.
Why?
Well, normally what happens is someone posts their position on an issue. Then, being the douche that I am, I post the exact opposite of their position, then question their justification. I ask questions to peel back the bullshit when people are using terms circularly or an odd way. When people pull the Frock reflex, they probably have seen how effectively I have used it, and expect that questions alone will accomplish something for them in the argument.
No.
If you want to use questions to effectively end an argument, you must be honest in not knowing anything. By not knowing, you will easily see the opinions of others, and know exactly how to untie the knots with questions. You act as an automatic bullshit detector, look at it this way:
Me: I know nothing.
Someone: I know something.
Me: How do you know that?
Someone: Blah blah blah.
Me: How do you know that?
Someone: Oops I guess I don't.
Me. I know nothing.
Someone: I know nothing.
That is an extremely simplified version of what I try to achieve in argument. Agreement through mutual ignorance.
Edited by xFrockx (04/18/10 01:26 PM)
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 deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: xFrockx]
#12414927 - 04/18/10 01:27 PM (14 years, 2 days ago) |
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Sincerely,
the Frock
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: deCypher] 2
#12415005 - 04/18/10 01:37 PM (14 years, 2 days ago) |
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My frock is at the cleaners - wine stains.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#12415328 - 04/18/10 02:41 PM (14 years, 1 day ago) |
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it's ok. frock, if anyone agree's with you they'll be ignorant to care to reply. but i'll state that i'd agree with you're methods.
sorry for all the ignorance.
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crumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex
Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#12416337 - 04/18/10 05:42 PM (14 years, 1 day ago) |
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Shame Socrates beat you to the punch by a few millenia.
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,458
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 18 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: crumblebum] 1
#12416400 - 04/18/10 05:53 PM (14 years, 1 day ago) |
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As did Plato, but it never really caught on did it?
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crumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex
Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: crumblebum]
#12416424 - 04/18/10 05:58 PM (14 years, 1 day ago) |
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Well, it was a teaching methodology, so it really works best either in written dialogue or in one on one teaching scenarios. It has a way of backfiring if your opponent knows what you're doing.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: akira_akuma]
#12416437 - 04/18/10 06:00 PM (14 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
it's ok. frock, if anyone agree's with you they'll be ignorant to care to reply. but i'll state that i'd agree with you're methods.
sorry for all the ignorance.
What ignorance?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,458
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 18 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: crumblebum]
#12416458 - 04/18/10 06:03 PM (14 years, 1 day ago) |
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Can you explain how it can backfire?
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: xFrockx]
#12416471 - 04/18/10 06:05 PM (14 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said:
Can you explain how it can backfire?
Can you explain how psychological projection works?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area 
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: xFrockx] 1
#12416484 - 04/18/10 06:08 PM (14 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said:
Me: I know nothing.
Someone: I know something.
Me: How do you know that?
Someone: Blah blah blah.
Me: How do you know that?
Someone: Oops I guess I don't.
Me. I know nothing.
Someone: I know nothing.
That is an extremely simplified version of what I try to achieve in argument. Agreement through mutual ignorance.
This is why there is hardly any point in debating with you here--we all accept certain axioms, and communicate with each other using them.
If you want to argue axioms, then make a specific thread for the axiom which you wish you debate, but bringing this crap into absolutely every thread is pointless.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,458
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 18 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: Poid]
#12416499 - 04/18/10 06:11 PM (14 years, 1 day ago) |
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"This is why there is hardly any point in debating with you here--we all accept certain axioms, and communicate with each other using them.
If you want to argue axioms, then make a specific thread for the axiom which you wish you debate, but bringing this crap into absolutely every thread is pointless. "
I wouldn't argue at all here if I didn't think there was value enough in seeing through all those axioms to find the fuckedness underneath all our various assumptions. I generally try to question until the bottom drops out.
Learning why we don't need to play with axioms is a nicer thing to know than any axiomatic knowledge that can be produced.
Edited by xFrockx (04/18/10 06:12 PM)
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: xFrockx]
#12417092 - 04/18/10 08:32 PM (14 years, 1 day ago) |
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What bottom? 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Mufungo
Coming at ya
Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: xFrockx] 3
#12418826 - 04/19/10 04:08 AM (14 years, 1 day ago) |
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What are people?
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TheBalance
Boo! Duh.
Registered: 06/06/09
Posts: 520
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: xFrockx] 1
#12420344 - 04/19/10 12:34 PM (14 years, 1 day ago) |
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If in a conversation one aims at agreeing to 'know nothing' one prematurely steers an exchange with many conclusions to be drawn into a comfortable dead end. I fear this is mostly ego gratification technique to appear intellectually superior that may actually stem from an inferiority complex when first acknowledging/deciding/realizing that one 'knows nothing.' In doing this, one dismisses what is known/knowable/obvious in favor of ignorance, and therefore, cuts himself off from an emerging stream of (however abstract) unfolding conclusions. Then beckons... Even to the point that one may choose to steer a conversation off course in the direction of your line of thought for the sake of side-stepping these conclusions due to a predetermined view/destination. One of... 'I know nothing, therefore you know nothing,' which is convenient but not something that is helpful in a personal quest or something I would encourage or appreciate. Its distraction. Especially when cloaked in smug pseudo-intellectual musings devoid of any real contribution. Other than, of course... Ignorance. Or a will to ignorance.
'I know nothing.'
'I want to know something.'
'I will learn something.'
'I have learned that.'
'I know that.'
You all know something. There is not one of you who 'knows nothing.' Together we sum into greater knowings. Those greater knowings that emerge here are the purpose of these debates(?)/reality/existence. Aiming at the agreement of ignorance is not progress. But, considering the way this method has been received... You know this.
Its silly.
'The Frock reflex'
I see the philosophical merit, but shits... 
You can't un-beat a dead horse. Nice moves.
'And the bottom drops out. I've seen better days...'
-Citizen King
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TheBalance
Boo! Duh.
Registered: 06/06/09
Posts: 520
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: xFrockx] 1
#12420385 - 04/19/10 12:40 PM (14 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
...picking this up seemingly without any comprehension of why they are using it.
Just between you and me... Pssst, at least in here, they are making fun of you.
Quote:
...they probably have seen how effectively I have used it...
Do you honestly think this...??
Question: If you are 'honest in not knowing' how can you detect bullshit...?
Mutual ignorace...?? Um, frock that.
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,458
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 18 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: TheBalance] 1
#12422580 - 04/19/10 07:21 PM (14 years, 18 hours ago) |
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What do you know?
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: xFrockx]
#12422599 - 04/19/10 07:25 PM (14 years, 18 hours ago) |
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What is "do"? 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: Poid]
#12422912 - 04/19/10 08:05 PM (14 years, 18 hours ago) |
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the internet is useless.
this is an example... of the frock effect.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: The Frock reflex and Agreement through mutual ignorance [Re: xFrockx]
#12422916 - 04/19/10 08:05 PM (14 years, 18 hours ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said:
What do you know?
:O
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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