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OfflineBiffzilla
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Registered: 08/14/08
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Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe?
    #12409522 - 04/17/10 03:02 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

okay so i know sugar caramelizes, is there any lc recipe out there that's any good and can be sterilized? Maybe straw water lc? Any xp on this?
any GOOD sterilizable-lc recipes?

i mean is the lc good performance wise compared to pasteurized say dextrose malt etc. or honey lc's?

any experience?


--------------------
===================================================================
- Show me the honey -
===================================================================


Edited by Biffzilla (04/17/10 03:05 PM)


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Invisiblemyceleus_rex
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: Biffzilla]
    #12409638 - 04/17/10 03:16 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

LCs generally are sterilized, you just don't want to overheat them. Pasteurization would be something like 160f for a few hours. I think what you want is something that works well and is easy to use and resists caramelization. I'd suggest raw sugar, like Florida Crystals at about 4% in distilled water.  Works GREAT and holds up to 10psi for a half hour just fine. Kicks Karo's ass.


--------------------
Cervantes' sclerotia thread    Citric's self-healing lid tek  Agar's Grain LC  Breaking Up Spawn Jars

World's Ugliest Cat?

If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people?


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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: myceleus_rex]
    #12409844 - 04/17/10 03:51 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I'd recommend raw sugar (turbinado sugar in the raw) or light malt extract depending on your budget.


Here's my procedure for LME.

1 tablespoon LME per quart of water.

Bring LME + water to boil in a pot.  Boil till dissolved.

Run this mixture through a coffee pot with 1 filter in place.  This removes the sediment. 

Pour into jars (I usually do several LC's at a time) put the lid on and PC for 10 minutes @15+ psi.  Some slight caramelization will occur but not much. 

Here's a little comparison test I ran awhile back.

Sugar in the raw works great, LME works better but is a bit more expensive.


--------------------
Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: Spongiform]
    #12410655 - 04/17/10 06:47 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

" is there any lc recipe out there that's any good and can be sterilized?"

All of them. LC's are all sterilized, never pasteurized..but only for so long so they dont carmalize. The less sugar, the less carmilization. LME works best IME all around.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineBiffzilla
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Registered: 08/14/08
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Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12442695 - 04/23/10 09:23 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

m i never sterilized my honey lc's. sterilized th jars (pres terilized,)
then poured boilin water in.
added honey.
th e transfer vessels where kept sterile in sterile 'box, pre boilwater rinsed.

never sterilized my lc.
always pre sterilize jars until steamin hot, had the clean room dustless (wet surfaces, raincoat wet, so negative ions sucked back particles on plastic wet raincoat.)

boiled kettle
added honeywater all external jar surfaces superklean, boilin water and honey into jug, poured into sterilized STEMIN hot jars.
it worked...
just wonderin about totally CLOSED jars.... so absolute isolation.

but the ur DEFNTION OF STERILITIZSAION BEIN LIKE 15 PPSI for liek 60 MIN. MINIMUM?

LOOKIN FOR SOEMTHING THAT *CAN * B PPSI'd 15PPSI 1 HOUR

NO CARAMELIZATION. that recipe...
in vitro absulum


--------------------
===================================================================
- Show me the honey -
===================================================================


Edited by Biffzilla (04/23/10 09:39 AM)


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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: Biffzilla]
    #12442793 - 04/23/10 09:49 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

but the ur DEFNTION OF STERILITIZSAION BEIN LIKE 15 PPSI for liek 60 MIN. MINIMUM?




I previously said:
Quote:

Pour into jars (I usually do several LC's at a time) put the lid on and PC for 10 minutes @15+ psi.  Some slight caramelization will occur but not much.




Anymore then about 10 minutes will cause epic caramelization.


--------------------
Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.


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OfflinePsuper
Psilocybin


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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12442814 - 04/23/10 09:55 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
" is there any lc recipe out there that's any good and can be sterilized?"

All of them. LC's are all sterilized, never pasteurized..but only for so long so they dont carmalize. The less sugar, the less carmilization. LME works best IME all around.




OP- the above is all the advice you need!  If you actually want to do an LC use LME.

I simply don't need to use LCs but i've tried them, of course.  I was first convinced to use LME by Tahoe (another TC). Listen to Scatmanrav. ~P~

EDIT:  for new readers, LME - light malt extract, available from any brewery supply store. LC - liquid culture.


--------------------
Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk


Edited by Psuper (04/23/10 10:02 AM)


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: Biffzilla]
    #12442838 - 04/23/10 10:02 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Forget LC's. Go g2g!


--------------------

   
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: hamloaf]
    #12442868 - 04/23/10 10:10 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
Forget LC's. Go g2g!



Until I can afford a flow hood, I'm sticking with my trusty LC's :-D


--------------------
Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.


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OfflineBiffzilla
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Registered: 08/14/08
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: Psuper]
    #12442874 - 04/23/10 10:11 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

ay caramelization is pretty much epidemic when using 15 pssi for more than 10 minutes i mean. it never worked for me which is y i do it how i do it
pre sterilize thwe jars ya.
still steamin hot i measure down boilin water and add honey, the syringe and measurin jug having been 'sterilized' in boilin water...
the pressure cooking of honey never worked for me.

Im literally tryin to get closure on it all...
closed lids an all...
i kno theres a closed lid recipe somewhere out there or in here that hadnt been done... with no risk of caramelization.
im just tryin to boil it doin with no potential for variation from recipe that cant fail i know theres several teks like that the folks just wont release they secrets. but i love the discussion
i mean i figured out something secret thats real good but i wont talk about it.
my secret i know it works thats why i deleted it lol
jus like blue helix and his bag recipe.
he knows its good and we dont deserve it...
info like that is only exposed for a while although his bag recipe /tek was out there for months before he hid it,

my lil gloveboxless, hepa-less agar isolation tek was deleted the second i posted it coz ive realised it aint been discussed yet and i know im right...

one of the few reasons i aint dead yet coz i feel good about the fact i figured something like that out and its so simple it could save a lot of eletricity if they did that in the indistry though I know they never will lol...
flowhoods and gloveboxes are not needed. isolated cultures can be done without them. i am the next generation, waitin to be banned from shroomery for knowin Im right before my time...
That shit just ain't necessary. Its what I ve been all about for four years and I know I'm right now...
but it aint that amazing coz people can do that shit WITH a HEPA and / or glovebox. The thing just is i can do it WITHOUT them, even isolates.

in vitro isolate transfers, for one... the concept is simple and anyone with some ingenuity can realise its possible without the equipment even in a reasonablty dirty environment. I think this improv is what its all about.
In fact I have entire new levels of  non-compliance with industry standard techniques but can't discuss them until this concept has been embraced by the hobby community, which I doubt it ever will.
but I know I'm right. That's what's shroomery's all about. I mean all this refined stuff is really amazing and I am not arguing any techniques down, but I know culture isolates can be obtained without a laminar flow hood or glove box... in the form of  in vitro isolate transfer.
I think the concept 'in vitro ["isolate"] transfer' should speak volumes, although its not a standard synthesis of  jargon...
just yappin.

so it aint wonderful anymore co' the spirits outtav it.

PURR cisely, moo-man.
Cultivation without equip is my fait accomplii!
or raison de eitre  (or whatever they call it)...

and that (cultivation) includes) isolates without glove box nevermind flow hood. Glove boxes are uncomfortable.

Sure no grain to grain, but in this case they may not be necessary if a good isolate is attained and maintained, spawning to bulk can occur, with only LC innoculations occuring, really is the RAISON DE EITRE of this thread - not trying to undermine G2G, only trying to get :

*********
absolution of ISOLATION of STRAINS via syringe and propagation via LC ONLY...
*********

a possiblity of cultivation technique... a doorway for the less equiped or those who would prefer less equipment and maintenance of equipment...

So there. Isolates are totally possible, along with lc transfers finally to bulk spawning, with no sterile air or still air compartment...
I doubt it can be more simplified int he context of given standard equipment itenary (i.e filter disks). I have however thought of taking it another step into a more indigenous form of cultivation without even these things, using natural ingredients and vessels for propagating a sterile technique without lab materials (i.e even without self healing silicon ports or tyvek, without stil glove box)...
I think this is the way to go although some if not all will call me nots or not even get what Im hinting at... its totally real and possible.


But I have even more 'advanced (primitive)' ideas for doing shit without 'tech' nology (not 'tek' nology)...

i think sterile tissue culture is totally possible without modern technology. Ive at least proven to myself it can be done without even a glove box (sterile air flow...)
I think mushroom cultivation in this sense of adaptation is a supreme form of art amongst human beings and should become an olympic sport of sorts...  with simpler equipment or lack thereof, being the order of the day, i.e more 'advanced' techniques...

Has anyone ever tried some form of leaves as  microporous filter material?



Edited by Biffzilla (04/23/10 10:42 AM)


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OfflinePsuper
Psilocybin


Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,874
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: Spongiform]
    #12442902 - 04/23/10 10:17 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Spongiform said:
Quote:

hamloaf said:
Forget LC's. Go g2g!



Until I can afford a flow hood, I'm sticking with my trusty LC's :-D




Spongiform, you know i love your posts, but i disagree with your reasoning here....
Lots of new cultivators waste their time and/or effort on LCs when there are MUCH quicker, "safer" routes to reach the same end.  There is nothing wrong with doing G2G (or any of our work requiring sterile procedure) in a glovebox. 

That being said, I don't want to derail the OPs thread and go off topic. :smile2: ~P~


--------------------
Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk


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Offlinebhaas
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: Psuper]
    #12443007 - 04/23/10 10:40 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I used about a tablespoon real maple syrup in a 1 1/2 quart jar. PC'd for 60mins and no caramelization at all. Let cool. Squirt in some spores and POOF! I have LC.

I have micropore tapes on my holes. No contams. All done in open air. No probs.

I did another smaller jar <HERE> and added a pinch of table sugar and eyeballed some maple syrup. Worked great and I'm new. Just experimenting. Have fun.


Edited by bhaas (04/23/10 10:46 AM)


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OfflineBiffzilla
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Registered: 08/14/08
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: bhaas]
    #12443037 - 04/23/10 10:48 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

isolates? lol


--------------------
===================================================================
- Show me the honey -
===================================================================


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: Spongiform]
    #12443234 - 04/23/10 11:28 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Spongiform said:
Quote:

hamloaf said:
Forget LC's. Go g2g!



Until I can afford a flow hood, I'm sticking with my trusty LC's :-D



Well, I suppose it's a good thing I recently acquired this so I can 86 LC's. Sick of em'.


--------------------

   
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: hamloaf]
    #12443308 - 04/23/10 11:43 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Boiled water=sterilized.

Your confusing grain which needs to be at 60 minutes for 15 PSI VS liquid which only needs to be boiled to be sterilized. I use my PC 15 PSI for 15 minutes..just cause its quicker easier then bringing a pot of water to a boil. There will always be carmalization a little. Light malt extract provides the least..since its not sugar based. Pretty much EVERY recipe on the shroomery is a CLOSED lid one like your asking for..there are probably a hundred. More if you ask fastfred.

Everyone always says I'm crazy, but spongiform, try G2G in your bathroom. I just posted a few pictures on the cloning vs isolating thread, so as to not threadjack, I'll answer questions over there if there are any.

Lysol+alcohol in a spray bottle+a bathroom with rugs removed=huge glovebox.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinegornyhuy
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12443486 - 04/23/10 12:15 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
Boiled water=sterilized.

Your confusing grain which needs to be at 60 minutes for 15 PSI VS liquid which only needs to be boiled to be sterilized. I use my PC 15 PSI for 15 minutes..just cause its quicker easier then bringing a pot of water to a boil. There will always be carmalization a little. Light malt extract provides the least..since its not sugar based. Pretty much EVERY recipe on the shroomery is a CLOSED lid one like your asking for..there are probably a hundred. More if you ask fastfred.

Everyone always says I'm crazy, but spongiform, try G2G in your bathroom. I just posted a few pictures on the cloning vs isolating thread, so as to not threadjack, I'll answer questions over there if there are any.

Lysol+alcohol in a spray bottle+a bathroom with rugs removed=huge glovebox.





Adding my own G2G mistakes to this:
-thoroughly wipe down the outside, lid, and lips of all jars with ISO
-make sure all grains are *completely* colonized before G2G


--------------------
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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: gornyhuy]
    #12443522 - 04/23/10 12:22 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

A mister with alcohol is used to spray down all work surfaces, floor surfaces ect..then each jar.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineBiffzilla
Emperor of Bongolia


Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 1,277
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12493259 - 05/02/10 11:32 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

dont u use bleachwater to mist surfaces? methylated spirits/ alcohol? for real?
sheesh!


--------------------
===================================================================
- Show me the honey -
===================================================================


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OfflinePsuper
Psilocybin


Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,874
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: Biffzilla]
    #12493319 - 05/02/10 11:47 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Biffzilla said:
dont u use bleachwater to mist surfaces? methylated spirits/ alcohol? for real?
sheesh!




Spraying bleach water around your house would not be practical for most people, I use a bleach solution to clean the bathroom and kitchen, but not to spray in the air. 

I work in a lab and even in "professional" settings I often use 70% isopropyl alcohol in a spray bottle to clean stuff, so I think it's good advice; our favorite  at work though is a sodium dioxide dilution (I often mix and activate this stuff as well, which produces a small amount of mustard gas :gonzo:, always in a professional setting though).

Always wipe down the jars well with 70% isopropyl like scatmanrav said.  As well as the surfaces around where you're working. ~P~


--------------------
Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf


Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 11 years, 25 days
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Re: sterilizable (not pasteurized) lc recipe? [Re: Psuper]
    #12496460 - 05/02/10 11:02 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I wouldnt be opposed bleach water..I just dont play with bleach much. Washing things down and such..I just like alcohol to sterilize my surfaces and tools and jars and such..roll of paper towels always nearby.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
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