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Barksdale
Stranger

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 15
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Straw tip contam and monotub concerns
#12373566 - 04/11/10 03:51 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey all, long time reader, first time poster. I've got my first grow going strong and have isolated some strong Myc in LC's. I got three tubs colonizing now and I've got a few concerns. I've made it too far to have it screw up now, so I'd just like a little advice.
My main concern is with my two 18 gallon bulk tubs. They were made on the same day (11 Days ago) with 50-50 pasteurized straw/poo and 5 qt fully colonized WBS in each tub. Substrate depths were about 4-5 inches with one of them a bit smaller than the other. The strain is Hawaiian. I plan to go uncased and see what happens. I'll do casing comparisons in later grows, for now, I'd just be content with my first pins! Lets go tub by tub.
Tub one: This is the smaller sub depth at about 4 inches. Its about 97% colonized and I'd love to pull off the tape and put in polyfill, however, I'm concerned about a few little spots. Here's what the tub looks like:
 Now there are two tiny spots of what looks like trich (its green anyhow). These spots are on just the tips of two pieces of straw that are close to each other.
  Can I just snip these out carefully and pray it doesn't spread?
Now, there are also two little knobs of poo that aren't colonized yet. They are sort of close to the tiny trich spots and I'm afraid their next to turn green. But I don't want to pull them out and disrupt to myc growth around it. Any advice?

Tub two: This tub is with the identical substrate but it has a bit more depth. Major difference is I followed some ill-conceived advice that I read on here to cover my mixed substrate with another small layer of unmixed straw/poo to "case" the sub. I understand now that this isn't a casing, and its simply adding more sub. The other tub did not have this and is about 97% done. I'd say this is 75% after the same amount of time:
 I won't be doing this again, I'll def mix the whole sub with colonized WBS. But for this, I am concerned about it getting contams during the extra time it will take to fully colonize the top (especially cause the other tub in the same place has tiny contam specks). Myc looks healthy, I see no green and have only lifted the lid 2-3 times (after not lifting for 10 days). It may smell a tiny bit but I may just be my mind playing tricks. Seemingly good moisture content. I see two courses of action: -Close it and pray it's fine in 4-5 days. -Add 1 more quart of colonized WBS to the top and spread it out to help colonize the top layer. Never seen something like that on here, but could it work? Or would I be inviting failure?
Tub three: This is the unique one, it two qts Golden Teacher spawned to 50-50 straw/poo in a 6 qt box with 6 qt lid and colonized for 10 days. Been in fruiting conditions (polyfill and light) for about 5-6 days. Its not 100% cause I got a little impatient and it was just supposed to be a quick, unimportant small tub.

 Myc was very strong, in jars and in sub. But no signs of pins. Used some crumpled wax paper, and still nothing. I have little confidence in this container ability to keep humidity so I have been spraying, but I'm still unsure about it. I am thinking I may pasteurize more straw/poo and break up the whole brick into its own 18 gal monotub and see if I can get some real yield from the healthy myc. However, I have been giving it light and FAE for almost a week now and I'm unsure if it will be able to revert back to colonization. What do you think?
This post is a bit lengthy so I'll finish. These are my first tubs and my first grow, I've made it far without posts cause of the search. Thank you all in advance for any help or opinions, and I'm glad to finally join the community.
-------------------- "I ain't no suit-wearin' businessman like you... you know I'm just a gangsta I suppose..."
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: Barksdale]
#12373573 - 04/11/10 03:52 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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That is trich for sure. Moving it will for sure spread the spores since its green already,.
I find manure/verm/gypsum is great no need for straw
Edited by Shea25 (04/11/10 03:53 PM)
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Barksdale
Stranger

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 15
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: Shea25]
#12373687 - 04/11/10 04:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Nuts. Is it salvageable? Salt Paste? Alch? Peroxide? Snipping it out will cause spores to fall on colonized myc. Will myc fight it off or succumb to Trich?
-------------------- "I ain't no suit-wearin' businessman like you... you know I'm just a gangsta I suppose..."
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Shea25
Just some guy



Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: Barksdale]
#12373691 - 04/11/10 04:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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You could try salt pasting it if you really want to have it around for 1 flush
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teesionbear


Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 387
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: Shea25]
#12373731 - 04/11/10 04:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shea25 said: You could try salt pasting it if you really want to have it around for 1 flush
Ya mix a lot salt with a little water and cover that area and a couple inches around it.
-------------------- MY TRADE LIST
Edited by teesionbear (04/11/10 04:23 PM)
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Barksdale
Stranger

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 15
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: teesionbear]
#12373917 - 04/11/10 05:17 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok, will do. You think I should get those other two little uncolonized areas too for good measure? Its my understanding the salt dries and kills what it touches. The untouched myc should be healthy, corect? If 5-7% of the tub is untouched by salt, should it effect yeild much? And it will just be more likely to contam after what will hopefully be a first flush.
-------------------- "I ain't no suit-wearin' businessman like you... you know I'm just a gangsta I suppose..."
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Buckeye Oysters
From Zero to Hero



Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1,849
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: Barksdale]
#12374028 - 04/11/10 05:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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you dont need to case bulk like straw/hpoo. You can make a salt paste and carefully cover the green areas to kill off mold till fruiting is done. Looks like you probably need to increase your FAE and fan/mist more.
-------------------- Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
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Barksdale
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Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 15
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Do you say that because the condensation on the sides? Because this tub hasnt been put into fruiting yet, the tape is still on the holes. I am about to open it to fruit right now. I salted the green, found a few more spots. I didnt plan to case anyhow. During colonization I didnt peak too many times, do you think the tub is too wet (causing contams) even for the spawn run that it was in?
Also, I think I'm going to break up that brick of spawn I have in the 6 qt monotub and spawn it to an 18 gallon one. I'll follow up on that.
-------------------- "I ain't no suit-wearin' businessman like you... you know I'm just a gangsta I suppose..."
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prismism



Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,570
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: Barksdale]
#12374234 - 04/11/10 06:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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i didn't see trichoderma in any of those pictures.
-------------------- ephemeral anomalous
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Barksdale
Stranger

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 15
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: prismism]
#12374309 - 04/11/10 07:10 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Right in the box there. And in a few other little spots as well. We'll see how it recovers.
-------------------- "I ain't no suit-wearin' businessman like you... you know I'm just a gangsta I suppose..."
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prismism



Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,570
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: Barksdale]
#12374325 - 04/11/10 07:16 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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that's not contaminated. you don't need to salt anything.
-------------------- ephemeral anomalous
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: prismism]
#12374388 - 04/11/10 08:53 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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prismism said: that's not contaminated. you don't need to salt anything.
thats what i was thinking when i saw it. yeah that's a tiny speck of trich in the one pic, but its not going to take hold before the first flush. i might have tried to clean that little bit off somehow or maybe have just left it.
salting creates a puddle on the surface as more and more moisture is wicked up thru the myc into the ever growing pool of salt. I'm not a fan. dabb up this pool as it forms with a clean paper towel.
Also, I think your time frame is way off. You fruited that 6 quart way too early and you're you're being too hopeful thinking that big mono will fruit in 4 days. Looks like it has a good week to go to me. That's a good sized sub and it's not even 100%. The 6 qt will fruit eventually if it doesn't succumb to trich. It just colonizes a bit slower with all the fae.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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Barksdale
Stranger

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 15
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: anonjon]
#12374645 - 04/11/10 09:39 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I spotted additional spots of trich, all about that size, in 4-5 other areas of the tub. All on pieces of straw that are on the top of the substrate. I salted them all a bit and will be careful to sop up any salt pools.
Should I close the holes on the 6 qt, bag it up and stick it in the dark? Or just keep cycling the wax paper with the FAE and light?
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: Barksdale]
#12374806 - 04/11/10 10:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Barksdale said:
Should I close the holes on the 6 qt, bag it up and stick it in the dark? Or just keep cycling the wax paper with the FAE and light?
hard to say. when i've made the mistake of birthing too early i've just left it and waited. never tried sealing it back up.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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Buckeye Oysters
From Zero to Hero



Registered: 08/09/08
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Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: Barksdale]
#12438680 - 04/22/10 03:12 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Barksdale said: Do you say that because the condensation on the sides? Because this tub hasnt been put into fruiting yet, the tape is still on the holes. I am about to open it to fruit right now. I salted the green, found a few more spots. I didnt plan to case anyhow. During colonization I didnt peak too many times, do you think the tub is too wet (causing contams) even for the spawn run that it was in?
Also, I think I'm going to break up that brick of spawn I have in the 6 qt monotub and spawn it to an 18 gallon one. I'll follow up on that.
Tubs should always be operated as "fruiting conditions". Keeping FAE down and the tub sealed up for colonization promotes contams.
-------------------- Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
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anonjon
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Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Any updates Barksdale?
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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Barksdale
Stranger


Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 15
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: anonjon]
#12499014 - 05/03/10 01:06 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey guys, sorry to update so late, but there hasnt been much to report and I have been distracted by my other baby's:

Ok, so Tub one did have trich and went south rather quickly. The salting created pools that were a bitch the dry and maintain. It eventually got away from me and the trich spread to those areas. I put the tub on the back porch and removed the polyfil and let it ride. It knotted hardcore, but the trich pool was spreading and it was difficult to maintain because I didnt want to risk bringing the contam back indoors where my clean grows are. Anyhow, here is how we stand today:
 Thats a pretty good picture of what you don't want...
These are my first cubies ever:

 Not the glorious pinset I was hoping for, but they'll work nonetheless to scratch my itch. I will probably pick a few off there in a day or two.
In hindsight, I believe that the contams were due lack of FAE (thanks buckeye) due to poor monotub design: (edit) I also just noticed that the only patches of pins that formed are directly lined up with the large holes on the side of the tub. Obviously not enough FAE in the rest of the tub. Growth also increased quickly after polyfil was removed.
 I probably didnt fan enough because I was afraid that opening the tub to fan would promote contams. But this is what I am unsure of and need to clarify for my current tub:
  This is hawiian on straw/poo with 5 qts WBS, fully colonized. The tub design is a lot better; more holes in better places and transluscent plastic. I removed the tape and put in polyfil on 4/25. I have been removing the top and fanning it out about twice a day. It has been sitting at around 67-79 degrees and constant 95% humidity (says the cheapo walmart thermometer). Still no sign of knots but I am hoping they will show soon. I was thinking of doing wax paper but not sure if its neccessary. My question is: is it better to open and fan it everyday or leave it closed and try and force FAE through the polyfil with a nearby fan? Which one is more likely to lead to contams?
OK now for the unfortunate fate of tub two: This got some nasty trich too when I left it closed and went away for the weekend. It was all white and green in a decent sized area. I put it in the ground with some poo and covered it with a bit more poo and peat moss. Its been humid and 70-80 degrees everyday, I have watered it when it hasn't rained. We'll see what happens.
Finally, the little guy: I pasuerized straw/poo/verm/gypsum and made another monotub (identical to the one above)and used this little 6 qt tub as spawn on 4/17. When I broke it up it was real thick, but definatly too dry, almost brittle. It is still colonizing the new substate and doing quite well:
  I've got high hopes for this one. It is golden teacher, and the myc seems much thicker and stronger than the hawiian myc I have. Should be ready to fruit in a few days.
So I pretty much started 0 for 2 on my first two tubs, but I have learned some good lessons and improved my pastuerization/tub designs. I have three tubs colonizing and this one in fruiting right now with a bunch of knocked jars on their way. Persistance and patience is the key, this I have come to understand.
Thanks anonjon and buck and anyone else who'll help me get that first even uncontamed pinset.
Edited by Barksdale (05/03/10 10:39 PM)
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: Barksdale]
#12503899 - 05/04/10 09:39 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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nice update.
glad you got your first boomers, even if it did succumb to contams.
Your new clear tubs are ok, but you're still light on fae. The top set of holes isn't that important. You need some more at sub level. If you had more or larger holes, fanning wouldn't be so essential.
If u suspect that sub is about ready to pin, just pull the bottom polyfill out for a couple days.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: anonjon]
#12503946 - 05/04/10 09:52 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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btw, this is the pic of your substrate in the clear tub that you posted:


enlarged and increased saturation.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
Edited by anonjon (05/04/10 09:54 AM)
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Barksdale
Stranger


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Re: Straw tip contam and monotub concerns [Re: anonjon]
#12504106 - 05/04/10 10:44 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Good eye anonjon, I took that picture two days ago. When I was checking on my post last night I glanced at the pic and noticed it. I checked the tub and its a bit bigger now:
  So I guess that makes me 0-3. Well thats shitty but I got more waiting I suppose its not too big a deal.
So, being optimistic and trying to learn from these mistakes is what I will focus on. Its obvious there isnt enough FAE, even in the new tub. I have been reading nonstop about polyfil and density and all that jazz. I am thinking that I should either increase the size of the holes or add more of the same size, and closer to sub-depth. The holes are triangles, they are probably about 1/2 inch total area each. I saw one monotub tek where the holes were 2 inches. What do you think? enlarge them or add more? Also, I think next time I put one into fruiting conditions, I am going to make the polyfil really light in the holes. I am concerned that the room its fruiting in is a bad place because it has provided contams for 3 tubs now, but I will be moving by the end of May anyhow. These tubs that have gotten contams have all been in "fruiting conditions" for at least 7 days before getting contams because of no FAE. And there was still no knotting or any signs of pins. Could you tell me, if I had an uncased monotub 100% colonized with an ideal amount of FAE and humidity, how long do you think it would take to respond to the fruiting conditions and show signs of pins or knots? If I know that, I can better gauge if I have enough FAE on my next tub.
-------------------- "I ain't no suit-wearin' businessman like you... you know I'm just a gangsta I suppose..."
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