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Anonymous

Humans without souls?
    #1236949 - 01/21/03 02:51 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I've been battling with this concept in my mind for a few months now, the possibility that a significant portion of the population don't have souls. I'm not talking symbolically, like uncaring people, but literally, in that some people simply don't have an ethereal body in addition to their physical one.

This idea wasn't originated by myself but was recognized by Russian philosopher Boris Mouravieff. He never stated outright the labels of souled and non-souled people but alluded to it through his description of what he calls Adamic and pre-Adamic man. Pre-Adamic man has essentially only 3 "centers" (or chakras, if you will) and are termed the lower centers. These are:
1 lower moving center - root chakra
2 lower emotional center - solar plexus (sexual) chakra
3 lower intellectual center - throat chakra
Adamic man has these three as well as the higher centers:
4 higher moving center - stomach chakra
5 higher emotional center - heart chakra
6 higher intellectual center - crown chakra
And the third eye chakra is a result of the combination of heart and crown chakras. This is further described on the Cassiopaea web site, which refers to non-souled people as "organic portals".

In essence, because these people have no soul and lack the higher centers, they are always concerned with physical needs and desires, and lack access to any type of higher self. This would explain why about half the population is not concerned at all with greater meaning in their life than the physical world around them, while another half is at least, to some extent, wondering what their life purpose is or what this whole thing we call life is supposed to be about. I've noticed this when I'm with my friends; some of them seem interested figuring out some meaning behind existence while others are not only unconcerned with such a thing but actually disgusted by it.

Now I'm still not sure about this whole concept, but after giving it thought for many months, I'm beginning to finally see by people's everyday behavior that this may indeed be true. When I first read about the idea that some humans don't have souls, I was in denial. Not because it seemed so far-fetched as to be ridiculous but because deep down somewhere in myself I knew it was true. It was truly disturbing and set me at unease for weeks. I was actually wondering, do I have a soul? I was worried that all the effort I put forth to finally give life meaning would come to an abrupt end at death. I've come to a conclusion about that but I'll keep it to myself.

The main thing that seems to set non-souled humans apart from the souled besides their obsession with physicality is lack of empathy. They never truly hurt for another's misfortune or pain. The woman with the broken-down car on the side of the highway, the beggar freezing to death on a snow-laden city street, the kid who gets picked on in school. They only care about their own situation, and physical needs.

A few people on this forum have claimed they have no soul. Maybe because this is true and they know it? I believe those who have souls are always aware of it on some level, even if they deny it.

I'm wondering what others think of this idea, including those of organized religion.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: ]
    #1236974 - 01/21/03 02:56 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Interesting. That's really all I can say  :tongue:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineRemy
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: ]
    #1237026 - 01/21/03 03:10 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Im not really a fan of the whole chakra thing, but I do have a suspicion that the soul does not come naturall. However, I do believe anyone can gain a soul, and that once a soul is gained (often at a young age), one can attain higher degrees of the soul.


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Anonymous

Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Remy]
    #1237191 - 01/21/03 04:09 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I think you've hit the nail on the head, or at least thrown your hammer in the same bucket of nails as the "nail".

I never considered the posibility of such an occurence, but it sure would explain a heck of alot of things.  Like the actions of those people who do things that anyone with a brain (maybe soul now) would become sick to the stomach for even contemplating such things. :mad: 


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InvisibleMetasyn
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: ]
    #1237345 - 01/21/03 04:45 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Its an interesting idea, but I don't think people can be polarized dichotomously into "souled" and "not-souled," but rather in varying degrees of "soulfullness." Some people have very advanced souls and others don't even realize they have a soul. The property of soulfullness can be cultivated and advanced over the course of one's life, and people can have spiritual awakenings in which one realizes the full potential of one's soul. For the sake of equality, I would have to believe that we each have equal potential, but unequal realization of potential.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Metasyn]
    #1237430 - 01/21/03 05:09 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I'm with Metasyn on this one.  :wink:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinemista_insanity
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Murex]
    #1238088 - 01/21/03 10:30 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Sometimes I wonder if any of us even have souls to begin with. If we do, what is the soul anyways? Is it a piece of an even greater Over-Soul?

Ive heard a term, "Kundalini", used with the idea of chakras. What is Kundalini?


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: ]
    #1238183 - 01/22/03 01:43 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

g i gurdjieff suggested that it is "the work" of humans to construct a soul as part of their job on this earth...
~
kundalini is "the serpent power", an energy entity that can be raised from base center to crown center, usually through a series of psychospiritual execises...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Anonymous

Re: Humans without souls? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1239226 - 01/22/03 10:35 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I think that Boris Gurdjeff meant the difference between non religious people and religious people. Non-Religious people are confined to the three forms of sipirit awareness. Even when they followed a trancedental teaching they are without souls cause they live without the light of god in their lives. The 7 chakras symbolize the 7 bodies of heaven and of humans.


Edited by sNaiLmAil (01/22/03 10:36 AM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: ]
    #1239270 - 01/22/03 10:48 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

According to the Pleiadians, souls go through levels of life experience.

That is, we begin as a spiritual body (energy, or soul) as a consciousness.. in spiritual reality where we are at peace with all and exist eternally in the loving radiance of Creation and All That Is. Until it is decided to enter into physical reality in order to gain experience.

When a 'fresh' soul enters into its first physical body, it is clumsy and physically immature (inexperienced). These souls do not often live long, as they can barely take care of themselves or find food or water. Survival is the only focus, as it is quite difficult. They die early. Through the process of reincarnation, souls go through many cycles of life and death, gaining a little bit more experience each time along the way.

After many hundreds of lifetimes a soul has usually gained enough knowledge about the physical world and is beginning to think about spiritual concepts. Survival is hardly a concern, as the experienced soul is familiar with how to take care of the needs of the physical body. Spiritual matters become more important.

When an experienced soul looks upon a "new" soul, one who is in the first stages of physical experiences, they may appear to be "without a soul" or just plain stupid. This is not the case, as they are simply an immature spirit. They have not lived many hundreds of physical lifetimes to gain enough experience that they live comfortably in the material world. They are simply younger, and have gained less knowledge of the physical world than you. This does not make them inferior. We are all on our own paths of evolution, and we all go at different paces and learn different things at different times.

For a more thorough explanation of the levels of Human Evolution, check out This post


--------------------


Edited by Shroomism (01/22/03 11:39 AM)


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: ]
    #1239284 - 01/22/03 10:53 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

there was a guy that went to high school with my class. His skin was very shiny and his face looked like plastic, we always said he had no soul.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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Anonymous

Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #1239307 - 01/22/03 10:59 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

That's all good and fine shroomism but you didn't answer the kundalini and the three and 7 energy bodies question. I think you should see this metaphysically, not litterally. A lot of jabber without answer. You should go into politics.  :grin:


Edited by sNaiLmAil (01/22/03 11:00 AM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: ]
    #1239343 - 01/22/03 11:14 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I was focusing on a different aspect.

We have literally hundreds of chakras. They are all over our body, "chi cavities" or pressure points as they are called. However most literature focuses on the 7 main chakras which run up the spine. In spiritually immature souls, the chakras are usually out of balance, or inoperative completely. Since spiritually immature souls are most focused on survival and sexual drive (the first and second chakras respectively), the higher chakras of love and spiritual insight are often neglected, thus causing an imbalance as most energy is focused towards the lower chakras.

They don't not have souls, all beings of consciousness have a soul. They are simply spiritually immature, and focused on the lower chakra levels of survival.

Kundalini is potential energy that lies like a coiled serpent at the base of the spine. When activated, it weaves through the chakras, activating and spinning them. However if there is a block in the chakras such as too much focus on sexual energy, then it can cause problems as the kundalini is released.

Those who are focused on the lower chakra levels are not aware of their soul simply because they are too focused on physical reality. Residing in the lower chakras they are essentially "cut off" from the gain of spiritual insight and knowledge of the higher chakras, this of course, is where knowledge of the soul exists. Since they are oblivious to these chakras or center of thinking, there is only the lower chakras of survival, sexual desire, willpower.. that drives them. They are unaware of their soul because of it and it may also appear that way to outside observers.


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1239434 - 01/22/03 11:48 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

What effects could energy theft have on that?


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #1239463 - 01/22/03 11:55 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Do you mean psychic vampirism?

I believe that is a karma issue. The spiritually immature are easier prey for such activities, but it does little to hinder their learning. The balance comes in the karmic interaction between the two souls. Well, it may slow down their evolution somewhat. Since energy is eternal and abundant, one need only empty their cup for it to be filled. But awareness of this eternal energy source resides in the higher chakras one who is focused on the lower chakras can be unaware of this and allow their energy to be drained without refilling. Energy leeching is not necessary as all the energy in the universe is available at request. However this is a bit beyond my scope, and I think psychic vampires exist for a karmic reason.




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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: ]
    #1239465 - 01/22/03 11:55 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

What about the severely disabled, mentally and physically? Do they have souls?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Revelation]
    #1239470 - 01/22/03 11:57 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

All beings of consciousness have a soul.


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OfflineKenny Bus
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #1239483 - 01/22/03 11:59 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

sry i didnt read all the replies... do u think we are born with a sense of right and wrong? or is that something that we get from society, and culture? maybe the souless just missed out on something in they're upbrining. but thats not what i believe, just kinda rationalising... i mean, why dont some people have souls? is there an middle chakra?

i'm gunna read the rest of the replies now.


--------------------
KB


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1239538 - 01/22/03 12:16 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe people with Down's Syndrome are the next step in human evolution. They tend to be very loving and caring people.


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Anonymous

Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Revelation]
    #1239568 - 01/22/03 12:25 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

:confused:


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: ]
    #1239607 - 01/22/03 12:35 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah that was kind of a stupid comment. Sorry.


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Revelation]
    #1240022 - 01/22/03 02:51 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

people with down syndrome should be sterilized so their damn genes stay out of the pool.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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Anonymous

Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #1240105 - 01/22/03 03:16 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks! Now you are on the target list.

Be careful about what you say to the others!

First warning!


Edited by Mr_Mushrooms (01/22/03 08:41 PM)


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: ]
    #1240119 - 01/22/03 03:21 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

thats worse then selling drugs to kids at the play ground?  :smirk:


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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Offlinebluesky
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1240180 - 01/22/03 03:40 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

According to the Pleiadians, souls go through levels of life experience.

That is, we begin as a spiritual body (energy, or soul) as a consciousness.. in spiritual reality where we are at peace with all and exist eternally in the loving radiance of Creation and All That Is. Until it is decided to enter into physical reality in order to gain experience.

When a 'fresh' soul enters into its first physical body, it is clumsy and physically immature (inexperienced). These souls do not often live long, as they can barely take care of themselves or find food or water. Survival is the only focus, as it is quite difficult. They die early. Through the process of reincarnation, souls go through many cycles of life and death, gaining a little bit more experience each time along the way.

After many hundreds of lifetimes a soul has usually gained enough knowledge about the physical world and is beginning to think about spiritual concepts. Survival is hardly a concern, as the experienced soul is familiar with how to take care of the needs of the physical body. Spiritual matters become more important.

When an experienced soul looks upon a "new" soul, one who is in the first stages of physical experiences, they may appear to be "without a soul" or just plain stupid. This is not the case, as they are simply an immature spirit. They have not lived many hundreds of physical lifetimes to gain enough experience that they live comfortably in the material world. They are simply younger, and have gained less knowledge of the physical world than you. This does not make them inferior. We are all on our own paths of evolution, and we all go at different paces and learn different things at different times.


Fuckin WOW man!!!!! I never thought of it that way!!! Shroomism, you just enlightened an old soul!!!!!!! or so as I now think of myself as one.  :tongue: 


--------------------
You're my blue sky, you're my sunny day,
Lord you know it makes me high when you turn your love my way. Turn your love my waaaaaay, Yea.
-Richard (Dickey) Betts


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #1241425 - 01/23/03 01:51 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

down's syndrome is not due to their genes being in the gene pool...
it is called trisomy 21, and generally due to an aging mother (usually the mother, anyways) having an ovum with an extra 21st chromosome managing to get fertilized & gestated...
~
which didn't stop the national socialist party in germany from not only sterilizing, but liquidating, many types of "mental defectives" (and other undesirable groups as well, such as mentally ill, homosexuals, communists, slavs, gypsies, jehovah's witnesses, and jews...)
~
shucks, many places in the usa were in the practice of being pretty free with ordering state-ordered sterilizations, and not so long ago at that... ("eugenics board")


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1241673 - 01/23/03 05:11 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

yeah I knew that, I was just being flipant. But I didn't know an aging mother could cause that.

"shucks, many places in the usa were in the practice of being pretty free with ordering state-ordered sterilizations, and not so long ago at that... ("eugenics board") "

really? I didn't know that. Could you add some info on that?


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #1241830 - 01/23/03 06:41 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

oh my...
the incidence of trisomy 21 is definitely related to the age of the mother (since her ova are created during her in utero growth)(while spermatogenesis in her male partner is an ongoing process, and thus less subject to the effects of entropy on the "quality" of the genetic material...)
there are several other types of trisomy (and other polysomic and even unisomic disorders), many with their own special "syndrome" names, but individuals with those genetic disorders tend to be less viable than the down's syndrome "kids" (and they tend to die off by the time they are in their twenties, and often do not marry or have kids...)
~
as for state-ordered sterilization.. well, if you were female, in trouble with the authorities, diagnosed with some sort of deal like "mentally retarded" or "schizoaffective disorder" or some other "bad brain" type deal, and were poor and/or of a minority race... even 20 years ago, in many states, you could have beena prime candidate for tubal ligation, or other irreversible sterilization procedure...
and of course, nowadays, some of the survivors/victims of these surgeries are finding lawyers who will help them sue the state, or the hospital, or the social worker/welfare agent, or wherever the $$$ might be...
~
i dunno, try a googlesearch with words like "eugenics" and "sterilization" and "welfare"...
~
then again, my dad suggests that for
welfare moms" who have like 6 kids so they can get plenty of state $$$ be required to accept tubal ligation if they are on state support and have a second kid... (should the state have the right to force this on citizens? should citizens have the right to have too many kids just so they can be paid by the state for raising a crop of "bastards"? and what of the fathers of all these surplus poor? strange times, indeed...)
~
in china, back in chairman mao's time, women who had more than 1 child were often subject to mandatory abortion & subsequent sterilization procedures...
~
in the good ol' usa, this sort of thing prolly started in like the 1920s or so, and _maybe_ ended by the 1970s...
~
~
then there's voting "bread and circuses" --- how about if the usa re-institued the "pauper's oath"? ...if you want to be allowed to vote, you must be a taxpayer of record (& not on the dole)?


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Anonymous

Re: Humans without souls? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1241957 - 01/23/03 07:15 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I believe it's possible for anyone without one to grow a soul, but since they have only one short human lifespan to do it in, many don't realize their spiritual potential.


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Anonymous

Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1241983 - 01/23/03 07:25 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

All beings of consciousness have a soul.

I was also certain of this "fact" a few months ago. Always try to keep an open mind to any possibility. Now, if you're referring to soul essense, ie. etheric substance, then even the dirt we walk on has that. But I still believe it's possible that some sentient beings don't have a sentient soul body, though they certainly have the chance to develop one.


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Anonymous

Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Revelation]
    #1242002 - 01/23/03 07:32 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

It's my personal belief that the mentally and physically disabled chose such a path pre-incarnation in order to learn vital lessons of love and caring from those who would show same to them.

But... if, theoretically, souled and non-souled people are intermarried then any person born disabled may not have a soul.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Humans without souls? [Re: ]
    #1242026 - 01/23/03 07:39 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Did you read my reply about how lesser developed beings (experience wise) who are often focused on the lower chakras are not aware of their soul. Can you at least entertain the notion that all beings may have souls, but that some may simply not be as developed through many lifetimes of experience? Did you read the 7 levels of Human Evolution?


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Anonymous

Re: Humans without souls? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1242065 - 01/23/03 07:50 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I'm open to any and all possibilities.


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