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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: Kickle]
    #12367801 - 04/10/10 02:23 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
What is structure without substance?
What is the structure made of if not subsance?




what is substance??


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: deCypher]
    #12367807 - 04/10/10 02:24 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

You got me, you were the one using the term :smile:

I find both form and substance are illusory.
An attempt to be a static form of what is not static.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: Kickle]
    #12367827 - 04/10/10 02:29 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

structure/form is ever-changing IMO


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: deCypher]
    #12367836 - 04/10/10 02:32 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

But eternal?
I still wonder what it is made of.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: Kickle]
    #12367843 - 04/10/10 02:33 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

"eternal" is a word used to describe certain structures

I don't think substance exists; if it does then what IS it?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: deCypher]
    #12367855 - 04/10/10 02:37 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

That's no fair, that's exactly the same question I'm putting to you for your definition of structure :wink:

I have a personal answer, but I'm still curious as to what a structure is without any substance.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: Kickle]
    #12367864 - 04/10/10 02:40 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

What is substance without structure?

Suppose we define substance as something, say atoms.  Then what is an atom?


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: daytripper23]
    #12367875 - 04/10/10 02:43 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

As I understand, Magick would be an example of practice.

And for all practical purposes, I agree that "everything is contextual"  because everything is something we refer to.

But we only use what is in context based on what is outside of context. Otherwise, we would not refer to context at all.

For instance, notice the use of quotes here to further signify reference. I am stepping outside the context of just using words. I seem to have practically encapsulated language, from within another level of language. This is happening all the time but always within a greater context.

These layers are only found within the realm of symbology, and it is impossible to ULTIMATELY step outside of this altogether. So you can see how I agree with you, that we are necessarily commited to context. But I wonder if you can you see how this might turn the other way, to make "the word" either absolute, or absolutely meaningless. That is to imagine that one has stepped entirely out. Both the nihilist and the absolutist have stepped entirely outside of language, while paradoxically existing in reference to language.

The absolutist will step outside to lay down the laws, whenever it is convenient to him. On the flip-side, the nihilist is one to keep playing, but ignores the rules from within the game (meaningfully meaningless conduct).

This is not necessarily ethical inquiry, it is a contextual argument, against the person that holds nihilism and absolutism as philosophical perspectives. Obviously people are going to do whatever they are going to do. But by acknowledging praxis, or what people "reasonably" do in language, one comes to the agreement to the rules of a game, for whoever wants to play. I think the idea is you can play any position besides the nihilist or absolutist, and by this standard you are within the conduct of language.


Edited by daytripper23 (04/10/10 02:46 PM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: deCypher]
    #12367877 - 04/10/10 02:43 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Who defines substance as a form? :tongue2:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: Kickle]
    #12367880 - 04/10/10 02:44 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Hmm, I would say that nothing can be outside of context.  :confused2:  How are you defining absolutism?

And Kickle, I am using the words form and structure interchangeably.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: deCypher]
    #12367890 - 04/10/10 02:46 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, so am I.
Ok, this is going nowhere so I'll try and define substance for you.

Substance - that which animates form.
Form - that which contains substance.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: deCypher]
    #12367895 - 04/10/10 02:47 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

If nothing can exist outside of context, what possible meaning does the word have?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: Kickle]
    #12367898 - 04/10/10 02:48 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

And thus we have merged duality into monism.  :congrats:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: daytripper23]
    #12367900 - 04/10/10 02:48 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
If nothing can exist outside of context, what possible meaning does the word have?




Which, "context"?  I don't understand your question.  Does context need to have something existing outside of it?  What would this even mean?


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #12367913 - 04/10/10 02:51 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Cypher said:
And thus we have merged duality into monism.  :congrats:




and substance without form is just plain weird.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: deCypher]
    #12367950 - 04/10/10 03:01 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Something must be either within context, or out of context, because the word has no other use than pointing this out. This rule has to do with the word, not the world itself.

The purpose of this usage of context, is in most cases to bar the assumption that whatever is within a context is absolute.

If you aren't operating within some context, I can't begin to argue. For instance the absolutist or nihilist who just is just apparently labeled this because he does whatever he wants, is not subject to debate. The person who just does whatever he wants, precedes context, and he is basically unreasonable.

What I was arguing against is when context is used to arrive at such a perspective. To philosophically arrive at absolutism or nihilism. In this case I can disagree based on the possibilities of operation within a certain context, that a person cannot possibly arrive by these agreed parameters. 

Context is not reality itself, it is a tool for establishing the parameters of philosophy. The world is not contextual, the way we refer to it is.


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Invisiblep4kSouL
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms *DELETED* [Re: yogabunny]
    #12367954 - 04/10/10 03:02 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by p4kSouL

Reason for deletion: .



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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: p4kSouL]
    #12367960 - 04/10/10 03:03 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, by that definition I would be irrational.  :thumbup:


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: deCypher]
    #12368035 - 04/10/10 03:20 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

By my standards, possibly.

Rationality is another example that must be instantiated.

Logic too, is based on the instantiation of logos.

All "reason" 

These are metaphysical burdens that one probably, but does not necessarily deal with.

For instance, ratio implies a realm of sense, of making 1:1. Irrationality is perhaps me noting that your reasoning is 1:2.

But perhaps you are plainly ambivalent to this ratio. My point that you are being irrational, is only taken if you are operating within this same context.

But maybe you are not even paying attention to what is being ratiocinated. Me calling you irrational might fit my purposes, but that is only an expression of me not being able to make sense 1:1 of what you are doing. It is me pointing my finger at something, and saying it does not make sense. Perhaps the hope is that someone who is seeing the same thing, and cares about the same thing, will either reform this, or make sense of it.

Sense ultimately comes down to sensation, and there is no "making sense" of THAT. Ultimately, all of these words for reason, or language require instantiation. My real point here is that reason cannot be justified by itself. Language cannot arise out of itself. etc etc...


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: A Critique of Yoga Forms [Re: daytripper23]
    #12368039 - 04/10/10 03:20 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not sure where you're going with this but I believe contradictions.

six impossible things before breakfast


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