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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: soldatheero]
    #12368020 - 04/10/10 05:17 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
By "the real realization" I mean it is the realization of realizations.




I disagree.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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lastirishman
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: deCypher]
    #12368028 - 04/10/10 05:19 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

SO what part do you disagree with.. that it is the greatest of realizations or that it is a truth what so ever?


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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: soldatheero]
    #12368032 - 04/10/10 05:19 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I think it is a truth.  I also think it is true that we are not all One.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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lastirishman
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: deCypher]
    #12368044 - 04/10/10 05:23 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

So we are the same and different at the same time, what is it that is the same and what is it that is different, that is the question


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: soldatheero]
    #12368050 - 04/10/10 05:24 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Indeed.  :strokebeard:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: soldatheero]
    #12368055 - 04/10/10 05:24 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

We are all composed of the same material but I think, contrary to what many believe, it is precisely consciousness that separates us: consciousness in a sense is a boundary.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: learningtofly]
    #12368057 - 04/10/10 05:25 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

hmmmm

everything is conscious to a degree


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: deCypher]
    #12368063 - 04/10/10 05:26 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

a rock possesses awareness and has nerve impulses?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: learningtofly]
    #12368065 - 04/10/10 05:26 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

nerve impulses != consciousness


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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lastirishman
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: deCypher]
    #12368066 - 04/10/10 05:27 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

it is precisely consciousness that separates us: consciousness in a sense is a boundary.



Yes you have realized consciousness id the great divide. Everything is mechanical, action reaction EXCEPT consiousness or percpetion. That is why on this forum I always stress how percpetion plays a huge part in the way we feel and think its just not chemicals in the brain it is perception, people are depressed not because of their brains but because of consciousness.


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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: soldatheero]
    #12368076 - 04/10/10 05:29 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

why do you claim consciousness is separate from the brain? I think consciousness is as much a physical process as pumping blood through your veins.

why else would drugs be able to alter your consciousness if not for the fact that it is a physical thing?


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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: learningtofly]
    #12368087 - 04/10/10 05:32 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

it just can't be a physical thing.. its almost completely obvious to me now. its just not physical I always bring this example up but its perfect think of this, colour, all the colours they are not physical they are an experience and so is consciousness.. The fact the brain or the physical causes consiousness can be set aside it really doesnt matter. Conssciousness is its own thing bottom line.


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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: soldatheero]
    #12368095 - 04/10/10 05:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Why can't it be physical?

Color is a wavelength reflected off of a surface. How is that not physical?

When you say it can't be physical, do you mean because you have definitive proof or because you don't WANT it to be physical?


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Edited by learningtofly (04/10/10 05:35 PM)


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: learningtofly] * 1
    #12368097 - 04/10/10 05:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
why do you claim consciousness is separate from the brain? I think consciousness is as much a physical process as pumping blood through your veins.

why else would drugs be able to alter your consciousness if not for the fact that it is a physical thing?




Consciousness by definition isn't physical; it's mental.  :nonono:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: deCypher]
    #12368099 - 04/10/10 05:36 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Deity yes, external no. What separates internal mind from external Mind? Mind, or Spirit, or Consciousness is not substantial, it does not have extension in space-time and therefore no locus. You must be thinking in terms of the boundary of your skin, but that simply defines your cellular self. Chemicals exude from your skin. Gases exit from your nose, mouth and anus. Urine and semen leave from elsewhere. Heat radiates from your skin in infrared ranges, dropping off like any other EMR phenomenon. Auras surround you, visible to psychic sensitives, sometimes to those on psychedelics. But consciousness may well be holographic-like, transcending the speed of light, as in simultaneous telepathy from across the world when there should be an infinitesimal yet perceptible time lag.

Unlike an omniscient Old-Bearded-Guy-in-the-Sky who sees and knows everything from his heavenly throne, Infinity in its fullness may be completely Present in any mathematical point in space-time.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #12368102 - 04/10/10 05:37 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I agree.  Boundaries are fluid.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: deCypher]
    #12368103 - 04/10/10 05:37 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I submit that that is still a false distinction. Mental processes IMO ARE physical processes of the brain


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: learningtofly]
    #12368109 - 04/10/10 05:38 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
I submit that that is still a false distinction. Mental processes IMO ARE physical processes of the brain




It's a very real distinction.  Mental things are not physical things; what you're questioning is the relationship between the two.

EDIT: or perhaps you're a neutral monist, in which case mental and physical are still different categories but they apply to the same fundamental substance


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: deCypher]
    #12368128 - 04/10/10 05:42 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

What I mean is that consciousness is physical because its a biproduct of the brain doin' thangs. Or I guess what i'm getting at is I find the mind/body distinction to be a false one.

Maybe I am confusing mind with consciousness but do you get, or at least kind of get, what I am trying to communicate?

or perhaps this is a subject where I must be silent


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: No eyewitness to Jesus? [Re: learningtofly]
    #12368132 - 04/10/10 05:43 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Again, consciousness/awareness is by definition mental.  Mental and physical might be different words used to describe the same fundamental substance, but I don't see how you know that this is true.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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