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Thaddeus0
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Registered: 02/11/10
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PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams?
#12020685 - 02/13/10 09:23 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hi there, I'm growing some cubensis and followed along the Let's grow series on YT and read up on some grow TEKs before inoculating a few jars with Psilocybe Cubensis spores from Spore pod. I hear it has more to do with marketing but has anyone heard of a 'Golden mammoth' strain outside of spore pod?
In any case, ten jars were inoculated over two days using the PF tek method, first 5 with a 90 minute steam bath in a pot and injected with 4CC's each and second 5 with a ~40 minute cook in a pressure cooker and injected with 2CC's each.
I've kept the jars in the dark over five days in a ~78F plastic tub and took off the hole filters after a few days for air-exchange. After hearing that light during colonization doesn't affect the mycelium much, (they only pin when ready), and that some mycologists here just leave them in the open I now have them resting above my desk in my room. My question now is, is this a bad idea? Will the vermiculite stop any contaminants in the room from infecting the jars? Should I handle the jars without concern? And is it proper to put them somewhere else in the house away from me?
After four days I struggled with the idea that maybe I shouldn't be growing cubensis and decided to leave the box outside for three hours in a cold Canadian February evening (~-5C/41F), with the intent to throw it out later. After considering some things spiritually I brought in the box and hoped that the mycelium survived being frozen. Browsing the forums I found of two examples of mycelium surviving freezing weather and indeed they did. They didn't turn blue but it likely affected their growth.
Result after 8 days from inoculation: 1st batch: Three jars showed no mycelium growth and revealed Trichoderma, I threw them out. The other two are the strongest out of them all and show the most vigorous growth. No visible contaminants whatsoever and the strains seem to have joined together properly. #1-1 is about 50% colonized and 1-2 is about 70% colonized.
Result after 7 days from inoculation: 2nd batch: Slower growth rates, four jars are about about ~20% colonized. Jar 2-1 doesn't show any growth at all. After checking today I see two possible contaminants in jars 2-3, and 2-4. In jar 2-4 at one inoculation site on the edge of the mycelium growth there is a small area about 7mm round that is a dull soggy orange color on a couple verm-brf nuggets. I can't see any mycelium strands, but I'm not experienced, however I believe it looks like bacteria. All other sites are healthy. Does anyone know what this may be?
On jar 2-3 one of inoculation sites only has some mycelium growth under the vermiculite filter. A little under there are some soggy nuggets that appear as though mycelium had begun to grow on them but have died leaving a dark-grey 'ring' of water around them, (for lack of a wiser description). Does anyone know what this may be?
I'm sorry if I've been verbose, I'm new to the field of mycology and this forum and not sure how to split this up or phrase this.
Any help will be appreciated and any advice would be considered. Thanks.
Edited by Thaddeus0 (02/13/10 09:15 PM)
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madi
Hullu Mykologi
Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 414
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: Thaddeus0]
#12020803 - 02/13/10 10:02 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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50-70% in 8 days from inoculation with spores is super fast imo. Hard to say about contams without pictures.
Edited by madi (02/13/10 10:02 AM)
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Fahkface
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: madi]
#12020867 - 02/13/10 10:21 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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"Golden Mammoth" is plain bullshit.
You used way too much spore solution. This often results in a wrong moisture content, favoring bacteria and mold growth. Apparently, this is what happened with your jars.
70% growth in 8 days is fast, but not impossible. It doesn't not necessarily have to be mold. If you have the chance to post any pics, this would help a lot in order to identify contaminated jars.
I can't say if it was you, who did things wrong. It might have a been a contaminated syringe in the first place. This is unlikely, when you have two jars colonizing fine (also therefore: pics!), though.
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jordantyler
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Registered: 09/19/09
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: Fahkface]
#12020882 - 02/13/10 10:24 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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i would lean heavily towards contams...i've never seen a jar colonize that much that fast...
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Grumpyorc
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: jordantyler]
#12021071 - 02/13/10 11:14 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Don't go to a non sponsor vendor. That was your first mistake. I was originally going to post that it sounds to me like your jars are fine. I'v injected too much spore solution and had it colonize very very quickly as opposed to contam. I'v also had them contam. Than I read that you got your spores from "spore pod"
Start completely over. Get a syringe from a reputable source. I would also go ahead and proceed as normal with the jars you think are ok. They might be. They may also be not even cubensis. non sponsor vendors are just con artists. I'v had contaminated syringes 5/5 from a company who shall remain nameless but is non sponsor.
Good luck
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Thaddeus0
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: Thaddeus0]
#12022138 - 02/13/10 02:44 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
jordantyler said: i would lean heavily towards contams...i've never seen a jar colonize that much that fast...
Quote:
Grumpyorc said: Don't go to a non sponsor vendor. That was your first mistake. I was originally going to post that it sounds to me like your jars are fine. I'v injected too much spore solution and had it colonize very very quickly as opposed to contam. I'v also had them contam. Than I read that you got your spores from "spore pod"
Start completely over. Get a syringe from a reputable source. I would also go ahead and proceed as normal with the jars you think are ok. They might be. They may also be not even cubensis. non sponsor vendors are just con artists. I'v had contaminated syringes 5/5 from a company who shall remain nameless but is non sponsor.
Good luck
Thanks. The 70% jar is actually looking quite healthy. It's the ~20% done jar which seems to have contaminated, of which I've uploaded two pictures below.
Pictures of Jar 2-3:
You can see some orange coloration noticeable on the right side next to the mycelium, and the soggy greyish ring around the nuggets are the ones directly underneath the mycelium growth above.
Should the mycelium be able to overcome whatever it is?
Edited by Thaddeus0 (02/13/10 08:51 PM)
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Fahkface
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: Thaddeus0]
#12025875 - 02/14/10 06:11 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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The jars are way too wet. The discoloration could be a bacterial infection, probably caused by too much water in the substrate.
Watch them thoroughly! And take a sniff in order to check for "weird" smells.
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retarrrd
while(1) me->eat(shrooms);
Registered: 11/26/09
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: Fahkface]
#12026132 - 02/14/10 08:12 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'd bet that's bacteria developing
-------------------- learn that everything you learn is just, in fact, learned, and not necessarily the truth. the same goes for what you've just read.
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Thaddeus0
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: retarrrd]
#12027252 - 02/14/10 12:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Every jar I have has a mild vinegar smell to it. I think I saw RR say to some degree that it isn't bacteria that are the biggest threat to a colonizing cake but competing molds. I think they will turn out fine.
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Fahkface
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: Thaddeus0]
#12027618 - 02/14/10 01:51 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Bacteria occurs quiet regularly in jars. It's not uncommon in any way. The jars should smell like nothing but cooked rice and/or fresh mushroom. Not like vinegar.
I cross my fingers for you that it's nothing, but it sure is too wet and this often results in bacterial contamination.
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Grumpyorc
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: Fahkface]
#12027739 - 02/14/10 02:12 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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that looks pretty ugly :/ id isolate it at the very least and probably just toss it
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Whatupfool12
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Registered: 01/19/10
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: Thaddeus0]
#12027890 - 02/14/10 02:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thaddeus0 said:
In any case, ten jars were inoculated over two days using the PF tek method, first 5 with a 90 minute steam bath in a pot and injected with 4CC's each and second 5 with a ~40 minute cook in a pressure cooker and injected with 2CC's each.
Too much inoculant. 1 cc for 1 pint or 1/2 pint (1/4 cc for each hole: 4 total) is strongly recommended.
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Thaddeus0
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: Whatupfool12]
#12028210 - 02/14/10 03:29 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Whatupfool12 said: Too much inoculant. 1 cc for 1 pint or 1/2 pint (1/4 cc for each hole: 4 total) is strongly recommended.
Yes I was quite foolish, it was only after a few days that I read more about this.
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Whatupfool12
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: Thaddeus0]
#12032032 - 02/15/10 03:23 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thaddeus0 said:
Quote:
Whatupfool12 said: Too much inoculant. 1 cc for 1 pint or 1/2 pint (1/4 cc for each hole: 4 total) is strongly recommended.
Yes I was quite foolish, it was only after a few days that I read more about this.
Don't worry about it. At least you know. When I was starting out I did the samething. Mushroom cultivation all came from trial and error, that's what keeps everything interesting. 5 shrooms for acknowledging your mistake and willing to improve your skill.
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Thaddeus0
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: Whatupfool12]
#12040198 - 02/16/10 01:55 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks.
So 11 days for batch one: The two jars left are about 95% done. I'm thinking of drying them out during their consolidation phase using a plastic bin and a heating pad underneath and getting them to about 86F or so for four days. This is based on LeopardMan's heat tek Found here.
The only thing I'm pondering about is that this consolidation phase for the two jars is going to be short and warm. I'm hoping they'll fruit fine enough after the dunk and roll. The jars have healthy looking mycelium but the jars have a tangy smell to them. I'm wondering whether there is a bacteria problem and if the high temperature will affect that at all. These are jars 1-1, and 1-2.
When March begins I'd like for the fruiting to be finished so I hope to get jars 1-1, 1-2 in the fruiting chamber by this weekend. Is this reasonable?
10 days for second batch: One jar (2-2) is about 85% done and has the same tangy smell to it. Whereas jars 2-4 and 2-3 are seemingly contaminated with bacteria and have orange tinted or graying nuggets. The mycelium growth is slowing down in them. Should I throw out these two? Jar 2-5 is iffy, it has a much more paler smell to it, almost like garbage, but it certainly isn't mushroomy in any way. A couple orange-ish bits as well. 2-1 never grew.
I'd appreciate any advice.
Edited by Thaddeus0 (02/16/10 03:15 PM)
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Fahkface
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: Thaddeus0]
#12044561 - 02/17/10 01:06 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Orange like "stuff" can also be metabolites. This often points out you have some bacterial infection in there, but is also produced to break down the substrate.
Weird smells ain't a good sign, once again. I wouldn't really eat any fruits, coming from a stinking jar. This might actually be dangerous.
Quote:
I'm wondering whether there is a bacteria problem and if the high temperature will affect that at all.
Temps at this range favor bacterial growth!
Quote:
When March begins I'd like for the fruiting to be finished so I hope to get jars 1-1, 1-2 in the fruiting chamber by this weekend. Is this reasonable?
This depends on how long your cakes will take to pin. As you know, it normally takes about a week from full colonization to pinning, but this can take longer, as it can happen a little earlier (though not that often). If it pins after a week, the first flush should be done about five days later.
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shroomzoom
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Re: PF TEK ten half-pint jars, colonization, growth, contams? [Re: Thaddeus0]
#12326068 - 04/03/10 09:26 PM (14 years, 17 days ago) |
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Sounds like you used too many cc's for the size of the jar or the substrate was too wet in the first place. I don't see how you can blame that on the vendor. I live in Canada where said vendor is from and I have had very good experiences with them. They also have a replacement guarantee if you are not completely satisfied.
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