Home | Community | Message Board


Crestline Sales - MycoPath
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Nonsensical or Koan-like?
    #1231762 - 01/19/03 06:42 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

{No, this isn't a "Pick on Mr_Mushrooms" thread...}

Mr_Mushrooms: To me any question that concerns everyday experience and is unanswerable in terms of everyday experience is a nonsensical question.

I disagree (at least, with this phrasing).
So, are you telling me that questions like "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" and "What is it like to be a bat?" are nonsensical?
I think it's something different. I think such questions belong in a different category.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1231807 - 01/19/03 06:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

It is the difference between the Realist's way and the Zen way.

Some say holy "paradox" reveals great Truths.  I say, nonsense. :wink:

Peace


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: ]
    #1231837 - 01/19/03 07:03 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Isn't realism often paired with pragmatism?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledee_N_ae
\/\/¡†¢h |-|øµ§³ ¢å†
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 2,473
Loc: The Shadow of Neptune
Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1231854 - 01/19/03 07:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

What is the point of deciding that said questions are nonsensical? Why not just say "I'm not going to waste my time thinkning about that." and leave it at that?

IMO It's nobody's business to be "safegaurding" or "preserving" or (insert applicable synonym here) other people's thought processes by saying that certain avenues of idealistic exploration are in fact, nonsensical.

(Not insinuating anything here. I don't pretend to know anyone's reasoning)


Edited by dee_N_ae (01/19/03 07:15 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1231872 - 01/19/03 07:14 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I'm assuming that was meant for Mr_Mushrooms...


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledee_N_ae
\/\/¡†¢h |-|øµ§³ ¢å†
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 2,473
Loc: The Shadow of Neptune
Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1231878 - 01/19/03 07:17 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yes it was.

On a side note, what was your old avatar all about?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1231926 - 01/19/03 07:30 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

dee_N_ae: On a side note, what was your old avatar all about?

Oh, this old thang?


I honestly don't know. But it's good and weird.
I'm still not sure about the current avatar, though.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: ]
    #1232027 - 01/19/03 07:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Some say holy "paradox" reveals great Truths. I say, nonsense.





Very good M.M. it is through non(without) sense(perception via bodily means) that the truth of "Holy paradox" is revealed.This realization has no effect upon dealing with sens(see above)able daily exigencies of living,however it can give a glimpse of the underlying nature from which sensable reality arises.WR


--------------------
To old for this place


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1232072 - 01/19/03 08:16 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Isn't realism often paired with pragmatism?




Yes, but Jamesian philosophy is as flawed as Hegelian because both do not have their metaphysics right. Basics first, then the rest.

Aristotle=Basics

Quote:

What is the point of deciding that said questions are nonsensical? Why not just say "I'm not going to waste my time thinkning about that." and leave it at that?

IMO It's nobody's business to be "safegaurding" or "preserving" or (insert applicable synonym here) other people's thought processes by saying that certain avenues of idealistic exploration are in fact, nonsensical.




Why mention it? Because nonsense is a dead end street, that's why.

As to your second paragraph, rational thinking is everybody's business. Or at least it should be. If I were quick to point out every irrational error made on this forum I should spend my days answering nearly every post. I find that unnecessary and unwarranted.

There will be times when I interject my own opinions in the forum. If they rankle pay no heed. Elsewise you may be asked the same type of question you asked of my comment, "Why not just say "I'm not going to waste my time thinkning about that." and leave it at that?"

For the others:

The dynamic between Sclorch and myself is not readily understood by outsiders, even the regulars that frequent this forum. (Perhaps even ourselves) In my view, Sclorch is my Teacher though he may know it not. And if I may be so bold I proclaim him to be one of three favorites of mine that post here.

Cheers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: ]
    #1232080 - 01/19/03 08:20 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, but Jamesian philosophy is as flawed as Hegelian because both do not have their metaphysics right. Basics first, then the rest.

How so?
(is this an epistemological issue?)


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: whiterasta]
    #1232125 - 01/19/03 08:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Very good M.M. it is through non(without) sense(perception via bodily means) that the truth of "Holy paradox" is revealed.This realization has no effect upon dealing with sens(see above)able daily exigencies of living,however it can give a glimpse of the underlying nature from which sensable reality arises.WR




Ahh the mind wanders to Kipling.

"If you can bear to hear the Truth you've spoken
Twisted by Knaves to make a trap for fools....."

Seriously, I say, balderdash.

I'll let you in on a little secret WR sans emoticons (how refreshing).  You have noticed that certain "edge" I carry with me.  I'll tell you what it is.  I have been burned by nearly every authority, every ideology, and every "teaching" to come down the pike.  This includes a long list but here are a few of the primary ones:

Christianity
Eastern Mysticism
Science
Amway
A man who tried to sell me a Rolex watch on Times Square

So you see, my friend, I am not only leary of those who mouth the Truth.  But I am especially leary of those who follow bankrupt systems that couldn't pour piss out of a boot with directions on the heel.

Now put that in your smipe and poke it.

Idealism?  Eastern Zen Bullshit? 

I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree with this old dog.

Perhaps someday when I have a bit of time you can explain, in detail, what precious "system" you are clinging onto like a drowning man clutching his last strawman.  When that day comes nothing would please me more than to dismantle your "system" and hand it back to you in pieces with a smile from ear to ear on my face. :smile: MM :grin:

Cheers :wink: (tortuously teasing) 


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinesammy_jankis
Borsch Hater

Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 28
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: ]
    #1232168 - 01/19/03 08:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

-=Hey guys, I'm back.  Yay!=-

Mr. Mushrooms-  what's wrong with koans?  How could stimulation of the mind gland be a bad thing?  Maybe you've just put too much stock in them.  But then I might not look at them in the same way as most people.  I'm probably just a loon. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :grin: 


--------------------
Two men look out through the same bars;
One sees the mud, and one the stars.

-Frederick Langbridge


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1232209 - 01/19/03 09:26 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

How so?
(is this an epistemological issue?)





That would take a bit of explaining.  So let me just say that it isn't an epistemological issue because, thanks to Descartes, the entire emphasis of philosophy these days (especially for some) is epistemology when it should be metaphysics.  Ontology is closer.

Thanks Kant! :mad:  You've managed to screw nearly everyone up.  I hope your happy now. :tongue:

I would promise to clear this up in the morning but I know I won't have the time then either. :frown:

Great thread, btw! :smile:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: ]
    #1232225 - 01/19/03 09:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

hehehe.... I'll wait. :wink:


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: ]
    #1232662 - 01/20/03 03:27 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

glub ,glub,I'll be back :smile:WR


--------------------
To old for this place


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: ]
    #1234048 - 01/20/03 01:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

It is the difference between the Realist's way and the Zen way.

Some say holy "paradox" reveals great Truths. I say, nonsense.




The Zen way would never claim that paradox reveals great Truths. Such a statement would categorize a great many things.



--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,345
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: ]
    #1236266 - 01/21/03 11:00 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

when someone practices a "spiritual exercise" such as a zen koan *in order* to "get" some kind of spiritual illumination or awakening, they strengthen the fallacy that the ego can toss itself away by a tug at its own bootstraps. but there is nothing wrong with approaching a zen koan like you might have liked to approach riddles as a child (i dunno, i loved to solve riddles as a child) or just as you would when you listen to music. if you go to a concert to "get culture" or improve your mind, well.... how sad to never commune with the love-energy being circulated between the musicians and audience... how terribly, terribly deaf.


--------> hey kiddies, get one 100% of your essential non-linear thought vitimans in Koan Krunch! Kid Tested, Mother Confused! Send away for your free Kallisti Apple! (Hail ERIS!) Void where prohibited. "Where's Wu-Wei?" hidden on back of box!


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Nonsensical or Koan-like? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1236489 - 01/21/03 12:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Thoughtful and funny too!

Well said CJ, well said.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* My essay on Koans and the Zen arts. Anonymous 882 6 12/16/02 09:57 AM
by 3eyedgod
* Koan Arioch1 663 7 10/10/06 11:53 AM
by Icelander
* Post your zen poetry and koans here Demon 606 7 02/25/03 09:45 AM
by phreakyzen
* Negativity and Realism
( 1 2 all )
Swami 2,735 31 02/21/04 01:21 PM
by WhiskeyClone
* Representative Realism Rhizoid 1,323 11 08/17/03 06:16 AM
by fireworks_god
* hyper realism
SneezingPenis
982 1 10/08/06 12:56 AM
by capliberty
* Zen Koan of the day moogle 909 16 10/15/03 07:04 PM
by Keyannki
* psychedelics and koan wortiesbo 857 9 07/05/07 01:30 PM
by nothing

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
648 topic views. 1 members, 4 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Kratom Eye
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.058 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 14 queries.