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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: ManianFH]
#12312397 - 04/01/10 02:25 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mick said: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/edandearnings.htm
heres one of many statistics you can find indicating how much of an advantage one has with a degree when it comes to lifetime earnings.
Given the cost of a college education that's kind of a shitty investment.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: zappaisgod]
#12312729 - 04/01/10 03:29 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Psychology, huh? Guess what my degree is.
you have a PhD in nipple tweakin' and a BS in toe steppin'
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: zappaisgod]
#12312981 - 04/01/10 04:16 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
mick said: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/edandearnings.htm
heres one of many statistics you can find indicating how much of an advantage one has with a degree when it comes to lifetime earnings.
Given the cost of a college education that's kind of a shitty investment.
I assume you encouraged your kids to not go to college?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: DieCommie]
#12313033 - 04/01/10 04:25 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's free for my daughter. One step son is very good at school but not so good at reality so he got a Chem E at Columbia. The other step son has no business being anywhere near a college and his parents (against my advice) completely threw tens of thousands of dollars down that hole before he got tossed. 33% of them had no business in college.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#12313039 - 04/01/10 04:27 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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CycleThoughts
Researcher


Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 1,866
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: zappaisgod]
#12313100 - 04/01/10 04:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
mick said: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/edandearnings.htm
heres one of many statistics you can find indicating how much of an advantage one has with a degree when it comes to lifetime earnings.
Given the cost of a college education that's kind of a shitty investment.
It says a BA or BS earns 900,000 more over a lifetime. Drop 25,000 into a roth IRA and at 65 you'll have more than 900,000 in the account, so really, that money is better invested for retirement. And that's if your college cost 25,000 for 4 years, that's a low estimate.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: CycleThoughts] 1
#12313122 - 04/01/10 04:46 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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My BS cost less than 20k. And the rewards I reap from it go far beyond any monetary value.
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CycleThoughts
Researcher


Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 1,866
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: DieCommie]
#12313322 - 04/01/10 05:25 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: My BS cost less than 20k. And the rewards I reap from it go far beyond any monetary value.
If you go to a 2 year school and transfer you can do 20k. I imagine a BS gets you a job that is less demanding physically. That's something I think most people enjoy, but I do have friends that enjoy physical labor and being outside. To each his own.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: CycleThoughts]
#12313517 - 04/01/10 05:56 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I did enjoy that part of it a lot when I was younger. Tanned and fit. It does wear on you after 40 or so but by then I was past pounding nails.
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Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: zappaisgod]
#12313622 - 04/01/10 06:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
April 1, 2010
The Fed’s Last Hurrah By Peter Schiff
During the 1990s, inflationary Federal Reserve policy fueled a tech stock bubble. When that bubble burst, the Fed inflated a larger one in real estate. Now that the real estate bubble has burst, the Fed is inflating the biggest bubble of them all – a bubble in government. While the earlier booms at least provided the illusion of prosperity and some fun while they lasted, the government bubble will cripple the economy and deliver widespread misery to the vast majority of Americans.
Of course, there will be winners in the government bubble, at least for a while. As was the case with the stock and real estate bubbles, plenty of money will be made by the well-connected and parasitic classes. Government employees will continue to enjoy pay raises at our expense, as will anyone benefiting from the new wave of subsidies, such as Wall Street investment bankers, financial speculators, and those working in health care or education.
These gains will come at the expense of the taxpayers who foot the bill and the consumers who face higher prices. As government grows, it deprives the private sector of the resources it needs to survive and grow. The result is a lower overall standard of living. Not only are government jobs less productive than private sector jobs, but bureaucratic interference actually makes the remaining private sector jobs less efficient as well.
Our economy is being transformed from a mostly capitalistic one to a mostly socialistic one. More decisions are being made by politicians and lawyers in Washington and fewer by entrepreneurs. The motivation behind this shift is the mistaken belief that the financial crisis of 2008 was caused by too much capitalism and a lack of proper government oversight. This conclusion is self-serving for those in power, and couldn't be more economically misguided. Through corruption or just plain ignorance, Congress and this Administration have embraced an ideology that has failed every time it has been tried.
Take the recent student loan reforms that were slipped into the health care bill. Obama wants to reduce the cost of providing student loans by taking the profits out of the industry. According to Obama, student loans are too expensive because banks profit from making them. If the government nationalizes the function, we would apparently bring down costs by eliminating those pesky profits.
This is a Marxist argument, pure and simple. If true, it would apply to all industries, not just banking. States like Cuba and North Korea would be the envy of the world, as they prohibit profits across the board. The truth is that profits, earned from free-market competition, keep cost down. By taking the profits out and putting the bureaucrats in, any incentive to provide better service or lower costs is eliminated. It's not hard to predict that student loan costs will now rise faster than ever.
That is clearly not the result we want. To solve the problem, people must understand that college tuitions are so expensive specifically because the government has guaranteed student loans (see my video blog on this topic for a detailed explanation). Guaranteed loans don't mean more access to education, but rather that universities are free to charge more per pupil than if their customers were paying out-of-pocket.
Obama's plan only serves to remove more market forces and creates an even bigger moral hazard. Under the new rules, students will be required to repay a much smaller portion of what they borrow. As a result, students will be willing to borrow even greater amounts of cash to pay inflated tuitions, making it that much easier for colleges and universities to raise them.
Also, since the government will actually be loaning the money directly, rather than simply guaranteeing private-sector loans, the Treasury will actually have to borrow the money itself before it can re-lend it to students. I suppose the irony of going into debt to loan money never registers in Washington. Further, as this bill will cause tuitions to rise even faster, it will necessitate even larger loans that will produce even greater taxpayer losses when the loans end in default or forbearance.
Whether it is in education, housing, health care, automobiles, insurance, or banking, greater government involvement in the economy means higher prices, lower productivity, more bailouts, bigger deficits, increased taxes, diminished industrial capacity, fewer private sector jobs, less freedom, and a falling standard of living.
In the end, when runaway inflation and skyrocketing interest rates burst the government bubble, there will be no more bubbles to replace it – just one hell of a hangover.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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ManianFH
living in perverty


Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 14,790
Last seen: 10 hours, 15 minutes
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: zappaisgod]
#12314315 - 04/01/10 08:05 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
mick said: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/edandearnings.htm
heres one of many statistics you can find indicating how much of an advantage one has with a degree when it comes to lifetime earnings.
Given the cost of a college education that's kind of a shitty investment.
Shitty investment? 900k more on average over a lifetime, nearly double that of those who have a hs diploma. A BA/BS takes 4 fucking years and 20k on average, maybe a little less. On top of that a person can still work while in school, or even better the lifetime earnings for some are probably this much higher even though they didnt start working in their profession until after they finished college.
how the fuck are you going to twist this in a way that says youre better off without a degree. its delirium.
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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CycleThoughts
Researcher


Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 1,866
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: ManianFH]
#12316812 - 04/02/10 09:48 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mick said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
mick said: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/edandearnings.htm
heres one of many statistics you can find indicating how much of an advantage one has with a degree when it comes to lifetime earnings.
Given the cost of a college education that's kind of a shitty investment.
Shitty investment? 900k more on average over a lifetime, nearly double that of those who have a hs diploma. A BA/BS takes 4 fucking years and 20k on average, maybe a little less. On top of that a person can still work while in school, or even better the lifetime earnings for some are probably this much higher even though they didnt start working in their profession until after they finished college.
how the fuck are you going to twist this in a way that says youre better off without a degree. its delirium.
Did you read my post? If you invest that money in a retirement fund, you'll get about the same amount at the age of 65. You only get a lump sum at 65, but it's still an extra million in a lifetime, no?
If it were only about the money/investment, then zappaisgod does have a point.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: CycleThoughts]
#12316910 - 04/02/10 10:18 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't think that's a proper comparison. If you make extra money with a degree you can still put that into an IRA. Comparing invested money to non-invested money is apples to oranges. The comparison should be between putting 20k in at around age 20 and not paying in any every year compared to putting 0k in around age 22 and then putting in 15k every year.
Using this applet I find that, like you say, if you put 20k in at age 20 - assume 9% growth you will have $966,546 at age 65 (or $179,700 @ 5% growth). If you put that 20k into a college education and then after graduating at age 22 put your excess earning from college (15k per year) into the same 9% account you end up with $5,524,400 (or $1,902,600 @ 5% growth).
Making an extra million during your life time is far, far superior than getting it at age 65. In this case its about 4.5 million dollars superior @ 9% and 1.7 million dollars superior @ 5%.
The bottom line is that, even if you only consider financial benefits alone, you will be far richer to invest that 20k in college rather than an IRA.
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: DieCommie]
#12317050 - 04/02/10 10:50 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I don't think that's a proper comparison. If you make extra money with a degree you can still put that into an IRA.
That's not all, though. It's not just the money you spent on actual tuition and textbooks and other direct costs to get the degree, it is also the four years (or more, most likely - a hell of a lot of people take more than four years to get a four year degree these days) of income lost while studying rather than working. Add that to the pot and it makes a substantial difference.
And, of course, that 900k figure (or whatever) over a lifetime doesn't apply to everyone. Some people with degrees make no more than they would have without it. My buddy from high school, for example.
I went straight from high school into the job market while my buddy did the starving student routine for four years to get a degree in physical education and another year to get his teaching certification. I have no idea how much he spent on that, but I do know he just got minimum wage joe-jobs each summer during that time while I was raking in the bucks. He ended up with a degree which enabled him to be a Phys Ed teacher. And he never used it. Instead, he got a job as a commissioned sales rep for Proctor & Gamble selling hand cream and soaps to grocery stores. He later moved on to a series of other sales jobs, and last I heard he was a real estate agent.
Same story with my stockbroker. He has a Masters degree in psychology. But he never used it. He got into sales, too.
The thing is, both my buddy and my broker could have had an extra five or six years of income (rather than years of outlay) and zero debt if they had just gone from high school straight into sales. And if you start socking away the investments from day one, even if it's as little as a grand or two in the first few years, the mechanics of compound interest make that seemingly insignificant amount at the beginning very significant indeed by retirement time.
University education is not for everyone. I would say it's probably a waste of time and money for around half the people who try it - maybe more.
Phred
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Healthcare Bill & Student Loans [Re: Phred]
#12317226 - 04/02/10 11:30 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Indeed. To lump a chemical engineering degree in with an art history or psychology degree is lying with statistics.
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