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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety *DELETED*
#12303657 - 03/31/10 04:20 AM (14 years, 21 days ago) |
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Post deleted by Lakefingers
Reason for deletion: No reason.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: Lakefingers]
#12303953 - 03/31/10 07:50 AM (14 years, 21 days ago) |
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As in all gawd's fürry creachures
-------------------- _ 🧠 _
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Icelander
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: Lakefingers]
#12304276 - 03/31/10 09:23 AM (14 years, 21 days ago) |
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If I have to have death anxiety then every living thing should. This is only right. We can work on rocks and shit later.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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jivJaN
yes
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: Lakefingers] 1
#12304503 - 03/31/10 10:14 AM (14 years, 21 days ago) |
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Id like to tie those scientists up next to a big table with a bunch of tools spread out.. and show them pictures of dead, mutilated human bodies and tell them "you , soon" "you, after 5 days of agonizing pain and torture"
i dont like when people fuck with animals. makes me very angry.
-------------------- --------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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Icelander
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: jivJaN]
#12304609 - 03/31/10 10:35 AM (14 years, 21 days ago) |
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You do realize that was a spoof, right?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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jivJaN
yes
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: Icelander]
#12304664 - 03/31/10 10:49 AM (14 years, 21 days ago) |
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i thought it was 4 real
-------------------- --------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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Icelander
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: jivJaN] 1
#12304899 - 03/31/10 11:25 AM (14 years, 21 days ago) |
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The Onion is good at that shit. Check their political/social satire out online.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: Icelander]
#12305220 - 03/31/10 12:15 PM (14 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: You do realize that was a spoof, right?
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dill705
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: Lakefingers]
#12305303 - 03/31/10 12:26 PM (14 years, 21 days ago) |
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My philosophy professor linked me up with the onion. Great site
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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learningtofly
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: jivJaN]
#12305397 - 03/31/10 12:41 PM (14 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
jivJaN said: Id like to tie those scientists up next to a big table with a bunch of tools spread out.. and show them pictures of dead, mutilated human bodies and tell them "you , soon" "you, after 5 days of agonizing pain and torture"
i dont like when people fuck with animals. makes me very angry.
aside from the fact that its a spoof do u not see the irony in your post?
--------------------
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xFrockx
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: learningtofly]
#12305505 - 03/31/10 12:54 PM (14 years, 21 days ago) |
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He's a human silly. Humans are morally obliged to animals, but not other humans. Animals are weak and cuddly and defenseless, while humans are big and mean and scary.
Edited by xFrockx (03/31/10 12:54 PM)
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learningtofly
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12305655 - 03/31/10 01:15 PM (14 years, 21 days ago) |
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humans are animals...thats a false distinction.
--------------------
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Icelander
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12305672 - 03/31/10 01:16 PM (14 years, 21 days ago) |
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Grizzly bears and tigers are weak and cuddly and defenseless, while humans are big and mean and scary.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: learningtofly]
#12306429 - 03/31/10 03:12 PM (14 years, 20 days ago) |
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That was a joke...
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: jivJaN]
#12315830 - 04/02/10 01:17 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
jivJaN said: i thought it was 4 real
stupid is as stupid does.
the onion is... hilarious; and that was.. so... so funny as hell.
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jivJaN
yes
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Re: Für Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#12315877 - 04/02/10 01:40 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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i alrdy made fun of myself. u dont get to add on to it.
... be nice.
-------------------- --------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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akira_akuma
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: jivJaN]
#12315907 - 04/02/10 01:53 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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haha, sorry... but stupid is as stupid does isn't bad thing. if anything i enjoyed your posts immensely.
lol stupid is as stupid does. it's a line from forest gump, it means something like "stupidity is everywhere and it does what it does. and you can't help it."
stupidity is a mis-identification by an ego unwilling to accept and admit it's decision.
it's a way of saying no one cared that you were stupid. goddamn it, joviality is one way to go about things, you know, i was only being jovial. just like you were...
oh and i really ust like that movie and it has a great out look... and that phrase is awesome.
Edited by akira_akuma (04/02/10 01:59 AM)
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jivJaN
yes
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: akira_akuma]
#12315961 - 04/02/10 02:31 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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-------------------- --------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: jivJaN]
#12316011 - 04/02/10 03:21 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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thus the cycle of gump continues.
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: akira_akuma]
#12316926 - 04/02/10 10:23 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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what if teaching the gorilla he will die is wrong? Obviously his body will be destroyed but what if as humans we are suppose to know better? we are suppose to know that even when the body is destroyed being goes on because being is not the body? shame you people can't seem to grasp this. & you ask for proof.. but how about this, prove it doesn't?
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12316946 - 04/02/10 10:29 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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"we are suppose to know that even when the body is destroyed being goes on because being is not the body? shame you people can't seem to grasp this. & you ask for proof.. but how about this, prove it doesn't? "
Umm, I don't know this. Do you know this? I can't prove something wrong that is, by definition unknown and unobservable... think about it.
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12317022 - 04/02/10 10:45 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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just because it cannot be observed doesn't mean u cannot know it as truth, you realize atoms were known to exist before actually being seen right?
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Icelander
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317039 - 04/02/10 10:48 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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Were they "known" to exist or were they suspected to exist? There was a time when Dragons were "known" to exist.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317045 - 04/02/10 10:49 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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"just because it cannot be observed doesn't mean u cannot know it as truth"
By observed, I don't mean "looked at" I mean sensed or found in any way, sense organ or not. So if you can't observe something, you can't know anything about it, and you can't respectfully make certain claims about it.
"you realize atoms were known to exist before actually being seen right?"
Do you realize atoms are observable so your analogy here is bunk?
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: Icelander]
#12317048 - 04/02/10 10:50 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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well suspected but for good reason. If theres no good reason to suspect dragons to exist then I wont.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Icelander
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317054 - 04/02/10 10:51 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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What you call a good reason my not be at all in the long run.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317058 - 04/02/10 10:51 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
sensed or found in any way
what you mean to say is its determined to exist by inference, you infer it exists, there are indirect methods of determing it HAS to exist.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317066 - 04/02/10 10:53 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
What you call a good reason my not be at all in the long run.
hm more like there is no good reason not to consider my good reasons
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Icelander
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317081 - 04/02/10 10:55 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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I rest my case.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: Icelander]
#12317084 - 04/02/10 10:56 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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O.K good you never really had one
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317085 - 04/02/10 10:56 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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What is your good reason?
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12317088 - 04/02/10 10:57 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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simply that being is not matter
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317096 - 04/02/10 10:59 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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What is being if it is not matter? Why can't being be matter?
Edited by xFrockx (04/02/10 10:59 AM)
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12317100 - 04/02/10 11:00 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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hah cuz it aint.. it's just something people don't think about and therefore dont realize
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317167 - 04/02/10 11:17 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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good ur thinkin
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317202 - 04/02/10 11:26 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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I think it might be you who isn't thinking very much, and you just are settling with being "realized" about something or other. I don't even know what matter is, but it seems to me that matter is a word, and what the word "matter" is used to describe is space. Space is all we have, so to speak, it is everything that is right now, as far as I understand it. So when you're saying that being is different from everything that is here, now, then I think that you're making an assumption. Where are you drawing the line?
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12317224 - 04/02/10 11:30 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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actually you are the one saying space is different.. what if being causes space not other way around? shit u wanna think deep right ?
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317236 - 04/02/10 11:32 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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I know being is not physical it is a fact. Analyze anything that is experienced its is completely intangible. Tell me the difference between red and blue, explain to me what a headache feels like.. impossible no explanation can take the place of the actual experience.
Quote:
think it might be you who isn't thinking very much,
No, that is bullshit
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317363 - 04/02/10 11:56 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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"actually you are the one saying space is different.. what if being causes space not other way around? shit u wanna think deep right ? "
No, not at all. We haven't established there is a difference between being and space at all yet. You obviously think there is one. I'll ask again: Where are you drawing the line?
"I know being is not physical it is a fact. Analyze anything that is experienced its is completely intangible. Tell me the difference between red and blue, explain to me what a headache feels like.. impossible no explanation can take the place of the actual experience."
Problems of explanation are not problems of existence.
Edited by xFrockx (04/02/10 11:57 AM)
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12317380 - 04/02/10 11:59 AM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
No, not at all. We haven't established there is a difference between being and space at all yet. You obviously think there is one. I'll ask again: Where are you drawing the line?
Ya exactly and being is obviously not physical so maybe space isnt either.
Quote:
Problems of explanation are not problems of existence.
ah w/e u just say a catchy phrase you don't even acknowledge my point
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317397 - 04/02/10 12:02 PM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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"Ya exactly and being is obviously not physical so maybe space isnt either."
Semantics.
"ah w/e u just say a catchy phrase you don't even acknowledge my point"
You have no point because problems of explanation, which you describe, are not problems of existence, or metaphysics.
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Arden
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12317408 - 04/02/10 12:03 PM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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I was in a seminar yesterday that brought this up during discussion. I think a more useful interpretation of death anxiety is to see it instead as anxiety over our vulnerabilities. Death is not strictly limited to the demise of the physical body, it is also applicable to our love life, our youthful appearance, the security of our careers, etc. Exposure to these vulnerabilities (the varieties of "death") motivates a lot of our behavior that attempts to compensate with measures of security, clinging, and grasping. This is a fairly basic Buddhist concept, but can also be framed in psychological and sociological terms, even historically.
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: Arden]
#12317429 - 04/02/10 12:07 PM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
You have no point because problems of explanation, which you describe, are not problems of existence, or metaphysics.
Who said anything about problems? I said being is not an object how can I get this through your head? The experience of a colour is not a physical object, neither is the experience of sound or taste or any single thing that you experience including YOURSELF. The experience of yourself is not a physical thing it is intangible it is fuckin metaphysical.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12317926 - 04/02/10 01:28 PM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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" I said being is not an object how can I get this through your head? "
I never said it was an object. Are you saying being is not physical?
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12318054 - 04/02/10 01:59 PM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
I never said it was an object. Are you saying being is not physical?
Hah shit just finally figuring out what im sayin or what? Yaman being is NOT physical!
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12318086 - 04/02/10 02:05 PM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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"Yaman being is NOT physical! "
Semantics again. Being is being, but its not "not physical." What is it if it isn't physical, and if that kind of stuff exists, wouldn't it just be a part of the physical too?
Edited by xFrockx (04/02/10 02:05 PM)
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soldatheero
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12318115 - 04/02/10 02:09 PM (14 years, 19 days ago) |
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Please explain to me what semantics means? kthanks. Dude like I said the experience of colour is an example of something that is NOT PHYSICAL therefore non-physical things DO exist I would like to see you argue that point because you will fail.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
Edited by soldatheero (04/02/10 02:09 PM)
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12318124 - 04/02/10 02:11 PM (14 years, 18 days ago) |
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Semantics is just the use of words. You are using semantics to do more than that. You are trying to say things about this absolute fuckedness you find yourself in, every moment of every day. Worse yet, you are attempting to convince me of them.
" non-physical things DO exist I would like to see you argue that point because you will fail. "
The physical is everything. If there are non-physical things, they would be non-everything, in other words, nothing. Nothing does not exist, and non-physical things are nothing, so non-physical things do not exist.
Edited by xFrockx (04/02/10 02:13 PM)
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12318129 - 04/02/10 02:12 PM (14 years, 18 days ago) |
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Nah thats a bunch of bullshit. Im telling you that there is a realm known as the metaphysical and I'm trying to explain to you what it is.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12318138 - 04/02/10 02:14 PM (14 years, 18 days ago) |
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"Im telling you that there is a realm known as the metaphysical and I'm trying to explain to you what it is. "
The term "metaphysical" was invented by a person who was translating Aristotle. There was a section of his lecture notes on the "really real" that was after the physics section. The translator named it "metaphysics" or "after physics"
Where is this realm?
Edited by xFrockx (04/02/10 02:15 PM)
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12318155 - 04/02/10 02:18 PM (14 years, 18 days ago) |
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Who cares who invented what when.
Quote:
Where is this realm?
It's the mind. Everything we experience is metaphysical because experience is not physical it is intangible.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12318165 - 04/02/10 02:20 PM (14 years, 18 days ago) |
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"Everything we experience is metaphysical because experience is not physical it is intangible. "
If everything we experience is metaphysical, then is there a physical at all? How do we know there is a physical?
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12318181 - 04/02/10 02:22 PM (14 years, 18 days ago) |
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hahah nice you are suggesting what I speculate. guess what, we don't, maybe there isn't
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12318202 - 04/02/10 02:27 PM (14 years, 18 days ago) |
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Questions are not suggestions. If there isn't, then is everything metaphysical?
Edited by xFrockx (04/02/10 02:28 PM)
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12318220 - 04/02/10 02:30 PM (14 years, 18 days ago) |
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If your question "then how do we know the phyisical exists" is a legit question then it does actually offer a suggestion at the same time, that perhaps it doesn't.
Quote:
If there isn't, then is everything metaphysical?
Yeah its possible.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: soldatheero]
#12318371 - 04/02/10 03:03 PM (14 years, 18 days ago) |
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"If your question "then how do we know the phyisical exists" is a legit question then it does actually offer a suggestion at the same time, that perhaps it doesn't."
No. Neither is always an option. I don't know jack, duuuuude.
"Yeah its possible."
If everything is metaphysical, why don't we just call the metaphysical the physical and be done with it?
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Arden
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12318464 - 04/02/10 03:16 PM (14 years, 18 days ago) |
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Probably the longest back-and-forth I've seen in here in awhile.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: Arden]
#12320831 - 04/02/10 10:50 PM (14 years, 18 days ago) |
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why don't we just keep arguing.
?
semantics... sorry not a great argument. clearly the man requires no heed for knowing the semantics between him and you. he is trying to help you understand what he saying but you won't ask the right questions about what he saying in the first place.
pragmatism
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xFrockx
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: akira_akuma]
#12321679 - 04/03/10 01:37 AM (14 years, 18 days ago) |
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"semantics... sorry not a great argument. clearly the man requires no heed for knowing the semantics between him and you. he is trying to help you understand what he saying but you won't ask the right questions about what he saying in the first place."
Fair observation, it really is my bad. To be honest I think I pulled an Orgone here... just got tired of the wordplay and reduced myself to playing that game too...
To be fair to me though, the last post I made hasn't been responded to, and for a reason i think...
Edited by xFrockx (04/03/10 01:38 AM)
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akira_akuma
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Re: Fur Icelander - regarding Death Anxiety [Re: xFrockx]
#12324038 - 04/03/10 02:21 PM (14 years, 17 days ago) |
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you got it...
pragmatism is what is happening here.
too logical not enough realistic.
"oh wait, it isn't the same things?!"
^ yes, it isn't the same fucking thing.
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