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OfflineBlissfull Spirit
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Registered: 03/23/10
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Last seen: 13 years, 8 days
Self Exploration VS Recreational use.
    #12255214 - 03/23/10 01:09 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

This being a psychedelic forum, I believe this may a good place for such a discussion. I'm not sure if this has been discussed before or not but I'm looking for your individual opinion on the topic, what you truly believe.  As we all know, the use of psychedelics is very much different then the use of drugs in other categories for the most part. To me at least, the  use of psychedelics should almost strictly be used as a tool. If and when used correctly, it is my opinion that the use of other drugs for recreational purposes become unnecessary, as often nothing is gained from such experience. It seems that my idea is not shared by many others who see a need to dose on a frequent basis or combine loads of compounds to test the waters. Ever since my first dance with psychedelics, which happened to be some potent Lucy, Ive forever been changed. Having used many substances in the past and abused them frequently, Lucy kicked my ass and taught me a great deal. I was certainly not ready for such an experience, and it took a long time to digest everything that took place. I no longer ingest anything to simply create feelings of well being. If it will not help me explore myself and life in general, it has no value to me. I'm not putting anyone down, to each his own. This is simply my experience. I'm wondering where some of you experienced users stand in terms of self exploration vs recreational. Also, which substances offer the best experience.. Obviously Mushrooms, LSD, Mescaline, DMT but what an be said for such an item like Salvia? Is there anything gained by such use? Obviously in terms of experiences on these substances doseage may play a huge roll, but what can be said for MDMA or all the RC's out there. I personally don't look to RC's as a tool. I like to keep things natural as possible.. So where do you all draw the line in terms of self healing/exploration to recreational use of psychedelics? I know this is long and jumbled but, I'm just trying to get a different perspective on things and get a nice conversation going..
Thank you..:sun:

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: Blissfull Spirit]
    #12255222 - 03/23/10 01:11 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

People can use psychedelics for whatever they want. :shrug:

I've had my mind taken apart and hammered back together enough for the time being, and now my use of drugs is mostly recreational (meaning I stick to alcohol, weed, n20, and lower doses of other psychedelics).

I enjoy tripping a lot, and it can be very useful, but I just can't have my entire view of reality re-defined every time I want to trip. It becomes incredibly mentally taxing.

Edited by NetDiver (03/23/10 01:17 PM)

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OfflineBlissfull Spirit
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: NetDiver]
    #12255263 - 03/23/10 01:20 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

Agreed. Its just that I personally see something in the use psychedelics that is so much bigger then myself, and this world in which we inhabit. There is very strong connection to spiritual and mental growth through such experiences. Maybe I feel it's not respected enough hence the reason they tend to be abused and illegal. I'm not sure. Alcohol for instance, was something I often used far to much. This did nothing positive for me. I see no use in alcohol, as it frequently causes more harm then good ( I understand this topic is beaten to death but its just an example) Of course this is only my opinion and is not meant to put anyone down...

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: NetDiver]
    #12255305 - 03/23/10 01:29 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

I fully agree that psychedelic drugs should be respected, but that doesn't mean that you can't use them for fun.

They're a bit like the ocean, actually. You could travel the world on a sailboat (which most would agree could be a profound, life-changing experience), or you could just swim around near the beach having fun.

Whatever you choose to do, you should still respect the ocean because of the power it holds. The same is true of psychedelics.


--------------------

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Offlinewellage
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: NetDiver]
    #12255385 - 03/23/10 01:43 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

You can gain meaning from anything. Just because RCs aren't "natural" doesn't mean you can't gain something from their affect on your perception. How is LSD any more natural than RCs?

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: wellage]
    #12255425 - 03/23/10 01:49 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

^Oh yeah, agreed on that point as well. I missed that in the RP.


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OfflineBlissfull Spirit
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: wellage]
    #12255447 - 03/23/10 01:52 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

wellage said:
You can gain meaning from anything. Just because RCs aren't "natural" doesn't mean you can't gain something from their affect on your perception. How is LSD any more natural than RCs?



Not something I really wish to argue. That topic has been brought up numerous times on this forum. There is a bit of safety in knowing the extensive use of LSD and the history of it along with all the information that has been around for years about the drug as opposed to taking an RC which is often far from natural though may also possibly come from natural sources... with often very little well known information on the chemical i choose not to dabble... Just my 2 cents....

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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: Blissfull Spirit]
    #12255538 - 03/23/10 02:07 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Blissfull Spirit said:
Quote:

wellage said:
You can gain meaning from anything. Just because RCs aren't "natural" doesn't mean you can't gain something from their affect on your perception. How is LSD any more natural than RCs?



Not something I really wish to argue. That topic has been brought up numerous times on this forum. There is a bit of safety in knowing the extensive use of LSD and the history of it along with all the information that has been around for years about the drug as opposed to taking an RC which is often far from natural though may also possibly come from natural sources... with often very little well known information on the chemical i choose not to dabble... Just my 2 cents....




I just want to say, LSD is as unnatural as any other RC. Yes RCs have not been tested as well as LSD because LSD has been out since what 1942? I dont want to look it up, but seriously. Acid is not natural.

On the subject, Yes psychedelics are VERY powerful but few people that actually buy them use them for tools. I have used mushrooms recreationally 6 times and used it once as a tool, but sometimes when you try and use it reacreationaly and it becomes a tool that your not ready for shit can go bad. That happened once.

Now, usually high doses of mushrooms are used only for tools but I have found a way to almost safely do mushrooms in a recreational dose with a high high dose. I took 100 grams fresh without syrian rue right after dosing 1,500mg of DXM. This literally brought me to a different world. My thoughts were necessarily different but my senses were so out of there. The world was literally breaking down by me, my desk split apart and built itself back together, my friends heads popped out of the walls, I was watching TV and it literally felt like a window to a different world.

Pretty much all Im saying is there are ways to make it recreational but you must always be careful and make sure it doesnt completely destroy you. Half of it is seriously luck though. Ive had a 15 gram trip that I thought was going to be recreational.. and I had the worst night of my life.

Best way for me anyway.
Tool = Mushrooms + syrian rue and closing my eyes
Recreational = Dissociative + shrooms = world falls apart. More outside then inside.

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OfflineAntiEverything
im not a doctor
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: Blissfull Spirit]
    #12255556 - 03/23/10 02:11 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

just to clarify, LSD is an RC. Assuming because it has been used very extensively for the past 50 years does not mean there is a lot of scientific information about it. Many people still believe HPPD is media propaganda. The fact that you can use a substance a single time and have life-long persisting effects, to me, attests to its dangerous properties. its naive to consider LSD safe.

that being said.

there is no "line" between psychedelic recreation and psychedelic introspection. Recreation encompasses introspection. Psychedelics represent life. To me, using them in a dark room, with the lights off and minimal noise, severely limits the power and magic of psychedelics. You can't just take a psychedelic drug and turn your brain off. its not just pretty lights and colorful trails.

many of the lessons learned through psychedelics are very round-about and cryptic anyway. self exploration should include recreation.


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka

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InvisibleJanamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: AntiEverything]
    #12255688 - 03/23/10 02:29 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Just a reply to the guy above me about using the substance once and having life long problems. HPPD, ect. This can happen with mushrooms too, correct? Even natural psychedelics can cause this. Really to me the difference between natural psychedelics and RCs and unnatural ones are the fact that natural ones have been used for thousands of years because we didnt have the science to make anything more. The only difference is the amount of information we have on them. Look at LSD, its unnantural and it is one of the best psychedelics next to the natural mushroom. Sure there are some bad RCs but it doesn't mean all of them are bad. Dont be so prejudice against unnatural substances.

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OfflineAntiEverything
im not a doctor
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: Janamil]
    #12255732 - 03/23/10 02:37 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

the only distinction that IMO can be made is this:

Traditional vs. Modern

traditional psychedelics are ones that have been used traditionally as a medicine or as a spiritual tool by native people. modern psychedelics are newly discovered and are used mainly for recreation.

there is no functional difference between a "natural" drug and a synthesized drug. except that one occurs in nature and the other does not.

methamphetamine is a natural chemical. LSD is not.

in addendum:
you are correct, even mushrooms can cause HPPD. this would mean there is no unique reason to make a distinction between a natural and unnatural psychedelic.


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka

Edited by AntiEverything (03/23/10 02:41 PM)

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Offlinedanlennon3
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: AntiEverything]
    #12255769 - 03/23/10 02:42 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Up until about a month ago, I used to think of psychedelics for strictly self exploration. But my last trip was definitely recreational because I went to see Alice in wonderland. The trip made me realize that, to me, using them recreationally was just as powerful as having an experience of self exploration. I was in the moment and that's all that mattered at that moment in time. And the experience in a whole gave me a better outlook on life...just like every trip I have ever had.Call me lucky I guess. What is most important is moderation... Using them recreationally is fine, but in moderation. Same as using them for spiritual use.


--------------------
"Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"


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OfflineAntiEverything
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: danlennon3]
    #12255812 - 03/23/10 02:47 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Yeh IMO the debate between "exploration" and recreation is moot.

the actual debate should be:

Moderation vs. Abuse

And IMO if you are arguing in favor of "spiritual" gain from psychedelics, you are back in the stone-age. there should not even be a debate about the "spiritual" use of psychedelics, its just hippie-mumbo-jumbo.


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka

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Offlinec1dh3d
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: AntiEverything]
    #12255900 - 03/23/10 02:56 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

I only use drugs for recreation, depending on hallucinogens can result in things like the thread on this board where someones friends is convinced demons came to get him. When I am high I have certain realizations like I dislike my job, but I write that off like wanting to call my ex and tell her off while I'm drunk. Trying to realize who you are while your brain is heavily intoxicated by hallucinogens, to me, is complete insanity.

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OfflineSummerDaisies
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: c1dh3d]
    #12256004 - 03/23/10 03:08 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

i believe that you can take psychedelics to have fun and there is nothing wrong with it.

i think there is a problem with ONLY taking them to have fun tho, if you don't even use them for self exploration ever then i think it becomes abuse of the substances.


--------------------
[quote]Abuse said:
summerfaggot is one of the biggest cunts on this site.[/quote]

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Offlinewellage
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: SummerDaisies]
    #12256264 - 03/23/10 03:46 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Who says self-exploration isn't recreational?

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Offlinec1dh3d
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: SummerDaisies]
    #12256509 - 03/23/10 04:16 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

SummerDaisies said:
i believe that you can take psychedelics to have fun and there is nothing wrong with it.

i think there is a problem with ONLY taking them to have fun tho, if you don't even use them for self exploration ever then i think it becomes abuse of the substances.




The entire trip is an exploration of a completely different world, however, I disagree with the idea of making a potentially life impacting realization while reality as you know it is bending into the ground and changing colors.

And if I grow the mushrooms, I have every right to abuse every last gram of them : )

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OfflineSummerDaisies
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: c1dh3d]
    #12256569 - 03/23/10 04:22 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

c1dh3d said:
Quote:

SummerDaisies said:
i believe that you can take psychedelics to have fun and there is nothing wrong with it.

i think there is a problem with ONLY taking them to have fun tho, if you don't even use them for self exploration ever then i think it becomes abuse of the substances.




The entire trip is an exploration of a completely different world, however, I disagree with the idea of making a potentially life impacting realization while reality as you know it is bending into the ground and changing colors.

And if I grow the mushrooms, I have every right to abuse every last gram of them : )




i strongly disagree with this statement


--------------------
[quote]Abuse said:
summerfaggot is one of the biggest cunts on this site.[/quote]

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Offlinec1dh3d
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: c1dh3d]
    #12256575 - 03/23/10 04:24 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

There is a difference between self exploration and self realization, I am probably just playing word games here, but after reading the 'drag me to hell' realiazation someone posted on here and my own experiences - I don't think tripping balls is a great time to do it. The line between hallucination and reality can get too blurry.

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Offlinec1dh3d
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Re: Self Exploration VS Recreational use. [Re: c1dh3d]
    #12256588 - 03/23/10 04:27 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

So you are telling me, after putting the effort forth to grow some fungus, it is wrong of me to want to chomp some down and play my guitar without thinking life and time through thoroughly? I can't just take a few caps in a night to go trip around in a forest and laugh about nothing?

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