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Anonymous

US foreign policy.
    #1224638 - 01/16/03 08:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Saddam was a genocidal madman 15 years ago when we were supplying him with the weapons we now say we must take back. Why weren't we trying to take him out of power back then to free the Iraqis we suddenly care so much about?

There are lots of horrible leaders and oppressed people in the world. Why aren't we going after all of them?

Why are terrorists who attack us on our soil supposed to be the rest of the world's problem as well as ours, yet in Russia when Chechen rebels kill civilians we label those terrorists "rebels" and offer no help? Yet we label countries who refuse to help us in our own fight as sponsors of terrorism? Why?

Why are we not going to war with North Korea, when it is common knowledge they are engaging in illegal nuclear conduct?

How can our country consider it ethical to use Iraq's resources to pay for us to attack them? Could it be that maybe that was all over the news to get the idea of us taking their oil into people's heads in a not so blatant manner?

A whole lot of double standards. I don't like double standards. Double standards point to ulterior motives and bullshit politics.

I'd love to believe everything that goes in in terms of the US foreign policy is all peaches and cream, and we set a good example, but I'd have to ignore all of the above and countless other things I won't get into in this post.

Being American does not mean you blindly accept what authorities tell you and don't ask any questions. Ask questions, think outside of what mass media tells you, and be open to other possibilities. Bush is heading our country towards disaster and few people care enough to speak up. Fewer still are brave enough to admit to themselves that America, land of the free, has become nothing more than an empty slogan and in fact we are behaving like a bully to the rest of the world. It's a hard realization to accept, but deluding yourself just so you can go on being proud of your country is not only asinine, but dangerous.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." - Abraham Lincoln

If you disagree with me I respect that. I would like to know though, why don't the points I make above mean anything to you? If they do but there are counterpoints that you feel outweighs them, what exactly are they?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: ]
    #1224650 - 01/16/03 08:08 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Truer words were never spoken. 5 shrooms to you!


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinebluesky
mushroom cowboy

Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 561
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: ]
    #1224670 - 01/16/03 08:18 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

you are completely right. Being Patriotic doesnt mean to blindly defend the horrible decisions that our country makes. Being Patriotic means seeing and identifying a problem in your country and trying to make a change by encouraging and telling the truth and your opinions instead of only hearing what the TV tells you. I thank you for saying this and I thank you for opening my eyes a little wider.  :laugh: I just hope that this country isnt destroyed before I move to Canada. 


--------------------
You're my blue sky, you're my sunny day,
Lord you know it makes me high when you turn your love my way. Turn your love my waaaaaay, Yea.
-Richard (Dickey) Betts


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: ]
    #1225349 - 01/17/03 05:28 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Amen Fiend.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: US foreign policy. [Re: ]
    #1227319 - 01/17/03 07:15 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

No one who disagrees with my views cares to step up and explain why?


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Anonymous

Re: US foreign policy. [Re: ]
    #1227337 - 01/17/03 07:19 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I like taking Walmart runs at 5 am on a sunday. I will KILL to protect that.

Get off your high horse. There is no Draft. Free Individuals are choosing to GO to WAR. Free Individuals will be fighting that war for them. They will be helping to secure your immediate economic security in the process. The economic security that enables you to publicly complain about HOW it is secured.

The same security that all industrialized, free societies enjoy at the expense of ................................................................................................... everyone else.




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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: ]
    #1227555 - 01/17/03 08:31 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Free Individuals are choosing to GO to WAR

You sure George Bush isn't choosing for them?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: US foreign policy. [Re: ]
    #1227617 - 01/17/03 09:02 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

>Get off your high horse.

Gee, I was trying to keep this as respectable as possible. If you can't handle that, go away. If you can, why don't you at the very least address what I have said instead of spewing meaningless "It's good to be American" jargon.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: ]
    #1227694 - 01/17/03 09:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

If the order is rotten and the authority vicious, the duty of the citizen is to obey his or her conscience in preferance to that authority. And if the only sure way of reconstituting a just social order is to stage arevolution against a tyrannical and illegal authority-well, then, it must be done.

-Pierre Trudeau


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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OfflineVoodoo Doll
curses for allof you

Registered: 01/10/03
Posts: 190
Loc: Nelly Ville
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1227990 - 01/18/03 03:48 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

The problems in your country can be fixed with alot of work and effort of ppl all around the world, and we will. He has to change his foreign affairs it's no secret. He must come of some of his standpoints, like War On Drugs. etc. but it can be done.


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Anonymous

Re: US foreign policy. [Re: ]
    #1228995 - 01/18/03 02:02 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

OIL is the short response to all of your arguments. Resources is the long answer.

No country in the world is succesful at sharing them Equally. The best you can hope for is to live in a country that gives you the freedom to USE them equally, and will do whatever it takes to guarentee access to RESOURCES.

Argue all you want you are preaching to the choir. I never once said I like WAR, or like the Evil that we are forced to do to eachother to secure the limited resources on the planet. TAKE IT UP WITH GOD.


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: ]
    #1229013 - 01/18/03 02:08 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TAKE IT UP WITH GOD


One of the best statements I've heard in a long time.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: ]
    #1229256 - 01/18/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OIL is the short response to all of your arguments. Resources is the long answer.

No country in the world is succesful at sharing them Equally. The best you can hope for is to live in a country that gives you the freedom to USE them equally, and will do whatever it takes to guarentee access to RESOURCES.

Argue all you want you are preaching to the choir. I never once said I like WAR, or like the Evil that we are forced to do to eachother to secure the limited resources on the planet. TAKE IT UP WITH GOD.




So basically you're saying that we're going to kill a lot of innocent men, women, and children in order to secure CHEAP and EASY access to a resource whose very use is one of the factors destroying earth's capacity to support life. We're not doing this because Iraq has the last proven oil reserves left in the world or anything like that--no, we're doing it because we want gas for a dollar a gallon, so that we can drive our SUVs around for cheap and jack up the greenhouse effect to go as fast as it possibly can. Instead of mass transit and conservation and intensive R&D of alternate energy sources, we want slaughter and pollution because . . . well, because it's just more convenient . And you're also basically saying that you don't have a problem with that.

As much as I detest your thinking, I have to give you credit for at least being so honest about it. You have no morality and you don't have any delusions about having any and you're at peace with yourself about it. That kind of self-honesty is a very rare thing. I wonder if President Bush has that same kind of ruthlessly honest self-understanding, or whether he actually believes that he's a human being.


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Anonymous

Re: US foreign policy. [Re: ]
    #1229862 - 01/18/03 08:58 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You have an interesting take on the matter, one I'd never thought of before. You basically seem to have no illusions of us going to Iraq for humanitairan reason, and accept what is going on as a sort of necessary evil. You also have no illusions that the reason we are going is in fact more about oil than anything.

It would be one thing if the Bush administration put it like you do. At least they would be being honest, if nothing else. However, they don't. They claim we are doing it because Saddam is a threat to us, and so we can liberate the poor Iraqi people.

I guess I just can't politics. I don't like people being lied to. If we were going for a legitimate reason, why do they have to skew and sugar coat it?

If it's to fool the Arab world, and not so much the Americans, they're doing a very poor job as the Islam world is about ready to have an all out holy war against the US and it's interests.


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InvisibleMushMushi
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 480
Loc: Canada
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: ]
    #1230999 - 01/19/03 12:10 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Fiend, I strongly agree with you!

America, land of the free huh?
Actually, it is a two party dictatorship (the differences between them are meaningless). Ohhh, and don't forget how Bush got elected, a v?ritable chef-d`oeuvre.

Since when does America care about humanitarian issues??
Have they done something to prevent the Uguanda genocide?
I don't know people accept and believe the feeble-minded war justifications... It is a shame.
About the eventual war in Irak, what RIGHT has the USA to attack it?
"MAYBE they have some chemical weapons and they MIGHT use it"
There you go, their main argument. As you may see, it doesn't make any sense at all.
USA might use nuclear weapons; it already did that two times.
ISRAEL has nuclear weapons and it already threatened Irak with its missiles (it has violated a UN resolution; don't worry, they are violating UN resolutions every day) but ouups, I forgot, that country is an "alli?"

It is sad because U.S. backed Saddam Hussein in a bloody war against the post- Shah Iran. Do you remember that little media manipulation bullshit with the american ambassador's daughter crying about Irak's soldiers killing babies?
Fake, of course, but hey, they got a  justification for a war!

Teonan, you seem to be happy about going to Wallmart at 5 am...
The American way of life... Have you ever heard of overconsumption?
Just a little thought:
Suppose that everyone on this planet should live like Americans. We would need two planets for ressources and another one where we should put our garbage...

It is sad that such a nice country like USA is a tyran for the other countries.
But after all, even the great empire of Rome felt down. I'm just waiting that day  :wink:   


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,808
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: MushMushi]
    #1231013 - 01/19/03 12:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ohhh, and don't forget how Bush got elected, a v?ritable chef-d`oeuvre.



Bush was put into office by the rules in place at the time of the election. All the Supreme Court did was to rule that the rules could not be changed in mid stream. For people to say or imply that the court "selected" the President is foolish at best, an out and out lie at worst.

If you don't like the rules, work to change them.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1231179 - 01/19/03 01:49 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

The rules in place at the time?

Good God man, there was a bit more to it than that.

You must be an ardent Bush supporter.





--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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InvisibleMushMushi
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 480
Loc: Canada
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1231226 - 01/19/03 02:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You know what it is funny?
I didn't talk about the rules or about courts, etc (courts, as if there is justice, pathetic)
But the ELECTORAL SYSTEM itself. About a  quarter of prospective voters voted for Mr Bushie.
:smirk:

I think the shroomery is not a good place to talk politics heh
I better stick to the mushroom cultivation! 


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,808
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1231411 - 01/19/03 03:44 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The rules in place at the time?

Good God man, there was a bit more to it than that.

You must be an ardent Bush supporter.



Yes or perhaps I should have said by the laws in place.

Of course I'm a Bush supporter. The best man won, fair and square. Get over it. He'll win a second term as well.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: US foreign policy. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1231473 - 01/19/03 04:30 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

He'll win a second term as well.



God help us all!  :shocked:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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