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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: The Materialist Interactionist Dualist [Re: xFrockx]
    #12234904 - 03/20/10 12:22 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

All my perception is contained within my brain even if some of it might be without too, that I agree with.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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OfflineNoteworthy
Sophyphile
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Re: The Materialist Interactionist Dualist [Re: xFrockx] * 1
    #12236788 - 03/20/10 12:49 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
"Well, actually, maybe the problem is that you are not having a sentient experience like some of us and thus you cannot see the difference between the experience of blue, and the chemical/electrical patterns that occur in the brain at the same time as your experience."

No.  Maybe you do not have a sentient experience which is concurrent with brain activity like I do.  Where else is it?




Well truth be told, I cannot convince you that I am having a sentient experience. But I will tell you that it is the only sure thing that I know, and I merely express it as 'I have a sentient experience' because i believe that will express to the best of my ability what I am at the moment (I am something experiencing stuff).

And you cannot convince me that you are having a sentient experience.

However, My point is that this sentient experience is something different to chemicals, which are concepts that apply to our understanding of the meaning behind our experiences. We experience the world, and through science, we come to try to rationalise our experiences. We create concepts referring to them. Some of these concepts are 'chemicals' and 'electricity'. But these things refer to our abstract MODEL that we use to try to understand our EXPERIENCE. We even EXPERIENCE the MODEL! But My experience of 'chemicals' is a sort of mathematical, 3d visual, interactive day dream. That is my experience of most scientific concepts actually.

Your point is..? That the concurrency of thought and brain means that thought = brain?

pff gimme a break


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: The Materialist Interactionist Dualist [Re: xFrockx]
    #12236808 - 03/20/10 12:56 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Yeah I'm not saying there aren't other concurrent processes, but there's just no causation.




+1


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The Materialist Interactionist Dualist [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #12236956 - 03/20/10 01:21 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

ps. I agree with the topic of this thread, with current scientific principles there are no 'causal links' between the mind and its subsistence/substance, given that causal links only occur between physical objects. The mind is not a physical object, even though we can correlate mind states with brain states.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: The Materialist Interactionist Dualist [Re: Noteworthy]
    #12237508 - 03/20/10 03:40 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Where is mind?


Edited by xFrockx (03/20/10 03:40 PM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Materialist Interactionist Dualist [Re: xFrockx]
    #12240197 - 03/21/10 03:44 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)
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"Where is My Mind" (Pixies)

Oh - stop

With your feet in the air and your head on the ground
Try this trick and spin it, yeah
Your head will collapse
But there's nothing in it
And you'll ask yourself

Where is my mind [3x]

Way out in the water
See it swimmin'

I was swimmin' in the Caribbean
Animals were hiding behind the rocks
Except the little fish
But they told me, he swears
Tryin' to talk to me, coy koi.

Where is my mind [3x]

Way out in the water
See it swimmin' ?

With your feet in the air and your head on the ground
Try this trick and spin it, yeah
Your head will collapse
If there's nothing in it
And you'll ask yourself

Where is my mind [3x]

Oh
With your feet in the air and your head on the ground
Oh
Try this trick and spin it, yeah
Oh
Oh


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The Materialist Interactionist Dualist [Re: xFrockx]
    #12240721 - 03/21/10 08:21 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Where is mind?




I would ask you back the same question. I know that my mind exists only in one place that has been given a word - it exists in 'my mind'. my mind exists in my mind.

well thats a kind of poetic version... after some thought I would say that my mind exists in my sentient experience. I cannot give you coordinations within this domain, however, because I have no suitable metric.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: The Materialist Interactionist Dualist [Re: Noteworthy]
    #12240756 - 03/21/10 08:37 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

" mind exists in my sentient experience"

What is the difference between the two?


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The Materialist Interactionist Dualist [Re: xFrockx]
    #12241374 - 03/21/10 10:38 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

one is a structure, the other is a domain?


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: The Materialist Interactionist Dualist [Re: Noteworthy]
    #12241379 - 03/21/10 10:39 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

What is domain?  And what makes it not structure?


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The Materialist Interactionist Dualist [Re: xFrockx]
    #12244488 - 03/21/10 07:33 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

structure occurs within a domain

a domain is something that other things can occur 'in'. Ie when you ask 'where' is something, you are asking for information about a position/place/point/aspect within a domain.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: The Materialist Interactionist Dualist [Re: Noteworthy]
    #12244510 - 03/21/10 07:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

What makes structure, structure, and not just domain?  Is it you that sees structure, or does structure exist differently from domain?  What separates the two?


Edited by xFrockx (03/21/10 07:36 PM)


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The Materialist Interactionist Dualist [Re: xFrockx]
    #12244591 - 03/21/10 07:44 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Well you could say that the structure IS a certain mode/version/manifestation of the domain... but this seems to be drawing the thread away from the OP which itself made big claims about the nature of consciousness.

I mean we can just stop and say that all distinctions are corruptions of what is ultimately one universe occuring. But that would get no where, especially in this topic


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