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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation > Mushroom Cultivation Archive > Substrates
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Voices from the Compost Pile
    #1223132 -

Sometimes the P. Cube compost windrows speak. 6T (aka Mycota)  :tongue:
 
By preparing compost, you are creating an ideal medium for mycelial growth. Basic mushroom compost is made up of wheat straw, horse manure and gypsum (calcium sulfate). There are a variety of optional ingredients that may be added. A brief outline of some materials used in making composts follows:

Straw:
serves as a carbon source (carbohydrate) source wheat - considered the best - contains xylan oat, barley - break down more rapidly than wheat rye - breaks down slower than wheat.

Other Carbohydrate Sources:
Rice straw, molasses, brewer's grains, cottonseed meal (provides the fatty acid - linoleic acid -which is reported to stimulate yields.)

Manures:
nitrogen source, provides organisms essential to composting horse - most commonly used, fresher the better poultry - higher in nitrogen and phosphorous than horse, not so rich in potash (provided in wheat straw), faster and hotter than horse, use dry pig and sheep - must be used before they become sticky - used partly dry

Other Nitrogen Sources:
Blood meal (dried blood), bone meal urea, ammonium sulfate ((NH4)2SO4) Gypsum: calcium sulfate (CaSO4) - essential to mushroom compost preparation - prevents the compost from becoming too "greasy" - by forming an equilibrium matrix with the water, also helps the colloids to flocculate producing a compost with a more granular structure with increased water holding capacity: provides Ca++ ions; a mineral essential to mushroom growth: helps to prevent the loss of nitrogen (from the breakdown of proteins during the act of composting) by chelating the ammonia

Optional Mineral Sources:
Superphosphate; is said to promote vigorous mycelial growth, but an excess may make the beds too acid too soon which depreciate the crop. 14 lbs./ton of compost should be added at the last turn. It should not be used if there are a lot of droppings 9 fresh) in the compost.

Sulfate of potash; used in synthetic composts. the ubiquitous calcium carbonate.

Activators; compost "activators" can be obtained from nursery and garden stores and assures the presence of the organism essential to composting.


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~

Edited by SixTango (01/16/03 07:06 AM)

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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: SixTango]
    #1223138 -



--------------------
I'm a huge idiot

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: X.O]
    #1223182 -

I assume you're joking X.O... 6T knows whats what...


-Loop


--------------------
Pack-tight, midnight, ship it to tha coast.
Some take tha plane, you, you on tha boat,
right beside tha money which right beside tha coke
Passin by tha coastgaurd, right under their nose.

To the US-HEY where anyone can getny, MIA all the way to New Your city, you a twenty now....

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: X.O]
    #1223185 -

Quote:
This is not a Cultivation Topic,damnit. 


It's about compost so i think it's cool!
i like compost  :ooo:

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: psilocybinjunkie]
    #1223256 -

how feasable would it be to run a small compost indoors?

would the smell make you want to puke, or would it be doable i wonder?

I might just have to try a few experiments!

i think i'd start with a rubbermaid, add peat moss, table scraps ( selective )news papers, but manure is a bit rare at this time of year!

If my dog eats nothing other than dog food,, would it be ok?

cg


--------------------
************************************.>>>>>
Here Johny,, have a joint.. all your friends are doing it!!

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: psilocybinjunkie]
    #1223261 -

Dont we CULTIVATE using COMPOST?!?  where should it go? Avanced CULTIVATION>? :wink:

Thanks for the informative post! :grin:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: Curious_George]
    #1223262 -

no dog poo.
also composting indoors,not a great idea...

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1223266 -

Quote:
Dont we CULTIVATE using COMPOST?!?  where should it go? Avanced CULTIVATION>? :wink:

Thanks for the informative post! :grin: 


it's fine where it is...

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: Curious_George]
    #1223273 -

Forget dog shit.

Best bet is wheat straw, manure (cow & horse), spent brewery grain, vegggie refuse, activator & gypsum. Turned every few days, so air can get to it.

6T  :tongue:


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: SixTango]
    #1223303 -

awesome post, 6T

5 shrooms for you :grin:

shirl
xx 


--------------------
buh

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: SixTango]
    #1223308 -

Wherd you get that tight glass lookin head?


--------------------
NOTICE: THIS POST IS A WORK OF FICTION AND IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY

"I wanna remember to remember to forget you forgot me"

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: SixTango]
    #1223713 -

this is really shit for a commercial operation .
did you get inspired by that newby who posted about blood/bone meal ?  :crazy: 

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: shirley knott]
    #1223796 -

You're hear, you're here, wowowowoww.  Glad to see you are here, even if it's for a little while.  Take it easy.  And damn that shit looks good,. :grin:


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile *DELETED* [Re: Curious_George] * 1
    #1223890 -

Post deleted by shroomerylurker

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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Loop_Theorist]
    #1224112 -



--------------------
I'm a huge idiot

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: shroomerylurker]
    #1224159 -

Psilocybe Cubensis are habitat specific. Meaning, they cannot grow in the wild, unless their habitat provides a suitable environment, along with sufficient natural nutrients. Over the millennia, they have evolved inherent genetic traits best suited for their continuous survival in specific geographic area's they successfully inhabit.

All fungi feed by absorption of nutrients. Because of the huge range of potential nutrient sources, fungi evolved enzymes suitable for the specific environments in which they are generally found. The range of enzymes, though wide in may species, is not sufficient for survival in all environments.

Psilocybe Cubensis excrete a complex array of genetically predetermined enzymes for digestion. The enzymes are present in multiple forms, based on a single inherent genetic sequence, and include a range of isoenzymes, which arise from different inherent genetic sequences.

Simply stated, Psilocybe Cubensis excrete enzymes into the organic material in which their underground mycelia (root) system naturally grow. Those enzymes degrade nutrients there, into simple soluble forms of sugars and amino acids, which are then easily absorbed into the mycelia network. Resulting in them acquiring all essential elements with which to grow fruit bodies, and spores (seed) by which they propagate their species.

It is common knowledge that most strains of Psilocybe Cubensis flourish in select warm moist habitats worldwide, associated where horses, cattle and water buffalo naturally spread bovine type manure. Consequently, Psilocybe Cubensis developed inherent genetic traits, enabling then to excrete specific enzymes best suited to enable them to specifically dissolve, digest and take up nutrients available from bovine type manure, and/or soil enriched with it.

Therefore, Psilocybe Cubensis own inherent genetic traits attest that bovine type manure alone, or soils highly enriched with it, is best suited to their nutrient needs, in the wild.

Taking that fact, one step further. Aged leached dry bovine type manure, when aerobically composted together with a small percent of other select fruits, vegetables, grains and straw provides an even more enriched super nutrient source for cultivation of Psilocybe Cubensis . Moreover, a compost of this type provides an ideal moist subsurface habitat (substrate) that, Psilocybe Cubensis mycelia will colonize faster than any other.

The preparation of mushroom compost is usually done in two stages. The breakdown of raw ingredients begins in Phase I. Phase I is characterized by building the raw ingredients into long rectangular piles approximately 2 m high called "ricks" or "windrows". These stacks are then periodically turned, watered, and formed. This phase is essentially a microbiological process resulting in release of energy and heat.

To favor the development of relatively high temperatures, aerobic conditions are maintained by aerating the compost during repeated mixing or turning. Temperature fluctuations during this phase are paralleled by similar changes in the numbers of thermophilic (heat loving) bacteria. These organisms start to grow rapidly and release energy in the form of heat. Thermogenesis by microorganisms initiates the heating of Phase I and also produces heat in Phase II.

The internal temperature of a compost pile can reach up to 80oC. Traditional Phase I composting lasts from 7 to 14 days depending on the condition of the material at the start and its characteristics at each turn. It is considered complete when the raw ingredients have become pliable and are capable of holding water. The odor of ammonia should be sharp, and the color of the compost is dark-brown in color, indicating caramelization and browning reactions have occurred.

It is primarily the control of the environment that distinguishes Phase II from Phase I. Typically, compost is loaded into wooden trays, which are stacked, and then placed in specially designed rooms where the environmental conditions can be manipulated. Phase II is commonly referred to as peak-heating and may be initiated by steam. Pasteurization is accomplished early in the Phase II operation and is necessary to kill many insects, nematodes, and other pests or pathogens that may be present in the compost.

Pasteurization requires air and compost temperatures of 66oC for a minimum of 2 hours. Once pasteurization is accomplished, cool air is introduced into the Phase II room to assure adequate oxygen, and to help dissipate ammonia. An important function of Phase II microbes that survive the pasteurization process is the conversion of residual ammonia into protein. Because ammonia is lethal to the mushroom mycelium, it must be removed by the end of Phase II.

A stage is reached when the available food supplies for organisms inhabiting the compost become quite limiting, hence their activity decreases. The substrate is now set for spawning, and the substrate is said to be 'selective' for the growth of the mushroom. Once the odor of ammonia is no longer present, Phase II is over and the compost temperature can be dropped to 24oC for the addition of the WBS or any type grain spawn.

6T (aka Mycota)


--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: SixTango]
    #1224349 -

first, let me say, excellent research

now a question

Quote:
All fungi feed by absorption of nutrients. Because of the huge range of potential nutrient sources, fungi evolved enzymes suitable for the specific environments in which they are generally found. The range of enzymes, though wide in may species, is not sufficient for survival in all environments.

Psilocybe Cubensis excrete a complex array of genetically predetermined enzymes for digestion. The enzymes are present in multiple forms, based on a single inherent genetic sequence, and include a range of isoenzymes, which arise from different inherent genetic sequences.




what substrate do spore vendors tend to use? it seems as though they may have used manure years and years, with many a flush, then we use brf, and may not get as good colonization as we would with manure.
does it matter, when we order genetics from a vendor, if the ancestors were grown on a seperate substrate as we use?

also, it seems your a shit expert, so im gonna throw another question your way. will it help the mycelium if the poo is more airy than normal? maybe if i whipped the substrate after pasteurization, some air bubbles would be trapped. this idea came about when i watch cooking shows, they put the egg whites in a blender, and they come out whipped and airy, and it seems that shit isnt airy enough.

theyre strange thoughts, but im just trying to expand my universe

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: Anonymous]
    #1224465 -

Q. 1.>>>>>>>"what substrate do spore vendors tend to use?"<<<<<<

Q. 2. >>>>>"will it help the mycelium if the poo is more airy than normal"<<<<<
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They " tend" to use whatever works, they can get (cheap). That is generaly a dung based bulk substrate. Shitzzzzz....&.......wheat straw......... is cheap.

Myc will colonize an "airy" loam like substrate, faster than a DENSE COMPACTED ONE.

6T


--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: X.O]
    #1224541 -

Quote:
Quote:
  I assume you're joking X.O... 6T knows whats what...


No,it didn't say all that at first,it was just a picture,and some little joke.  :laugh: 


you are correct he added all the extra info after so it wouldn't be moved to pic forum. Good move cause before it was there it was off topic but now it's cool :cool:

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: SixTango]
    #1225648 -

this information you have enlightened us with, 6T, reminds me of Stamet's claim that we can revolutionize global waste disposal with the mushroom. the particular point of interest here is
Quote:
Psilocybe Cubensis excrete a complex array of genetically predetermined enzymes for digestion. The enzymes are present in multiple forms, based on a single inherent genetic sequence, and include a range of isoenzymes, which arise from different inherent genetic sequences.


this means that with proper genetic resequencing (think Dr. Evil and human cloning and jurassic park turned good, maybe bad though when the mushrooms learn to eat us) we could "build" a mushroom capable of quickly decomposing all sorts of previously slowly degrading materials. I wonder if Stamet's has considered this avenue (I'm all in favor of genetic reseacrh when approached with a wholesome, constructive, attitude) as he seems more bent on a natural "training" of the fungus based on tweaking their diets and selective "breeding". It seems that the fungus's DNA and resulting genes would be a great lesson in genetic engineering.


--------------------
To be honest, I fear the OTD. ---TheMadConductor

Now I'm gonna have to start getting down on my knees and blowing mushrooms... ---RogerRabbit

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: psilocybinjunkie]
    #1226004 -

Quote:
composting indoors,not a great idea...


Why is that? I am composting indoors in a 106 qt Sterilite bin. The compost is heated, in addition to itself, by two heating pads which keep the internal temp of the compst at a pretty constant 136 degrees. I also pump O2 in via an aquarium pump. Other than the fact that I did not sterilize my poo before hand, and I've grown some Coprinus (Coprini?), everything is going great. So why not compost indoors?


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1226219 -

Composting indoors is "not a great idea", only because of the limited size of what you can compost in small containers, and the inherant odor / drainage problems. It works -- fine -- if you can tolorate or overcome those trifles.

6T


--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: SixTango]
    #1226320 -

Odor? Smells like dirt to me. :wink: But the size limitation is a problem, though I guess it really depends on how much compost you want in the first place. Thanks for your first post there 6T, some very useful info. I have seen urea mentioned in a few mushroom compost sites that I have seen. What is it used for?


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: SixTango]
    #1226351 -

Quote:
Composting indoors is "not a great idea", only because of the limited size of what you can compost in small containers, and the inherant odor / drainage problems. It works -- fine -- if you can tolorate or overcome those trifles.

6T 


knows what he's talking about :cool:

Also having a big bin full of compost in your house may raise some questions such as "what is that","Why do you need that", "what do you plan on growing with that". Most peopple are inquisitive about such things...
Don't know about you but if you have friends over for drinking or just hanging out they'll be curious as to what's in the bin or what that smell is.
Don't know about you but i believe in discreetness~ made up that word i think :smile:
Thats just my opinion on it though...

Edited by psilocybinjunkie (01/17/03 09:28 AM)

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: psilocybinjunkie]
    #1226360 -

True. It has been in my bedroom for the past week, but I can just throw it in a clost when company comes over. The good thing about it being sealed is that no odor really is omitted, but it kinda cuts down on the O2, but the pump cuts down on that. I also live in an apt, so outdoors really isn't an option for me either.  :frown:


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1226380 -

thats what i figured. I know what thats like...
Aparments make some things more difficult :wink:

Edited by psilocybinjunkie (01/17/03 10:20 AM)

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: psilocybinjunkie]
    #1226388 -

Indeed.  :crazy:


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes

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Re: Voices from the Compost Pile [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1226862 -

Urea fertilizer is added as a synthetic nitrogen, when raw organic compost lacks sufficant manure (a nitogen source). Or, to increase N content, if the mix is out of balance.

6T (aka Mycota)
*****************************
How a good mushroom compost is made, is as follows:

The one exception being that the resulting N content can be pushed, when the compost is going to be used as substrate for P. Cubes.

I. Guidelines for calculating pre/compost nitrogen (N) content:
Calculate the starting N content of pile to be 1.5 to 1.7% before composting. The starting N for a synthetic compost formulas may be slightly higher than the wheat straw horse manure formulas. The percent N will increase throughout Phase I composting and Phase II and at spawning time the N content of the compost should be 2.1-2.4 %.

Knowing the N and % moisture of the bulk ingredients and supplements will increase the accuracy of the calculated and finished nitrogen content. If supplements are added by volume, occasionally weigh volume added to confirm calculated formula. At the end of Phase I and again at the end of Phase II, compost may be analyzed for N, ammonia, ash and moisture. It is important to take a representative samples, several small handfuls thoroughly mixed. When taking a sample do not shake the compost.

II. Examples of Mushroom Compost Formulas

Horse manure pile
Ingredients Wet Wt. Dry Wt. %N Tons N
Horse manure 80 T 50 T 1.2% 0.6 T
Poultry manure 7.5 T 6.0 T 4 % 0.24 T
Brewers Grains 2.5 T 2.5 T 4 % 0.1 T
Gypsum 1.25 T 1.25 T 0 0
59.75 T 0.94 ? 59.75 = 1.57%

Synthetic pile
Ingredients Wet Wt. Dry Wt. %N Tons N
Hay 15 T 12.8 T 2.0 % 0.26 T
Cobs 15 T 12.8 T 0.3 % 0.04 T
Poultry manure 3.8 T 2.4 T 4 % 0.09 T
NH4NO3 0.3 T 0.3 T 32% 0.10 T
Potash 0.3 T 0.3 T 0.0 0.00
Gypsum 0.6 T 0.6 T 0.0 0.00
29.2 T 0.49 ? 29.2 = 1.68%


Horse manure-synthetic blend
Ingredients Wet Wt. Dry Wt. %N Tons N
Horse manure 15 T 10.5 T 1.2% 0.13
Hay 7.5 T 6.3 T 1.1% 0.07
Corn Cobs 7.5 T 6.4 T 0.3% 0.02
Brewer's grains 3.0 T 3.0 T 4.0% 0.12
Poultry manure 2.0 T 2.0 T 4.5% 0.09
Urea 0.1 T 0.1 T 44.0% 0.06
Potash 0.2 T 0.2 T 0.0% 0.00
Gypsum 1.0 T 1.0 T 0.0% 0.00
29.5 0.49 ? 29.5 = 1.66%

III. Suggested watering procedures during composting:

Add as much water as possible without run off during pre-wet conditioning or during the first two turns. Avoid adding too much water early during Phase I, always be able to control moisture. Add only enough during next turn or turns to wet dry spots. Bring up compost moisture to desired water content by adequate watering just before filling.

During pre-wet it is advisable to flip or turn the compost every day. After the rick or pile is built, the compost should be turn every other day unless pile temperatures have not peaked.

IV. Changes in organic matter, carbohydrates and nitrogen during mushroom composting.

Soluble carbohydrates are simply adsorbed by the micro-organisms and it is converted into new living matter or provides energy for the cells. As these micro-organism grow energy in the form of heat is released. As the pile heats to temperature above 150o F the activities occurring within the pile change from biological to chemical reactions. It is at these higher temperatures that carmelization takes place. Carmelization is the process where water is eliminated from the carbohydrates and carbon is concentrated. This process can be compared to boiling sap down to make maple sugar.

V. Phase I is considered complete when as soon as the raw ingredients become pliable and are capable of holding water, the odor of ammonia is sharp and the dark brown color indicates carmelization and browning reactions have occurred.

Moisture content at filling should be 70-73%. Water should drip from compost squeezed in the hand. But a good rule of thumb to follow is: the longer, greener or more coarse the compost then more moisture it can take. The shorter, more mature or dense the compost the less water it should have.

The shorter or wetter the compost, the more loosely it should be filled into the beds or trays. The longer or greener the compost, the more it can be firmed into the beds. Attempt to fill uniformly in both depth and compaction. Edges or sideboards should be packed slightly tighter, whereas the center should remain looser.

VI. Phase II composting has two objectives:

Pasteurization - elimination of undesirable insect pest, microbes and pathogens.

Conditioning - Creation of specific food for the mushroom and creating a selective and suppressive compost to favor the growth of the mushroom.
VII. Insure adequate ventilation during Phase II. When in doubt, ventilate. A flame should be burn at all times.

The higher the nitrogen content of compost, the greener the compost or the more dry weight at filling time, the greater the ventilation required. When outside temperature is high as in summer or early fall, more ventilation is required than when Phase II occurs during the cold winter weather. This is especially important when the grower does not have a forced air ventilation system.

VIII. During Phase II keep compost in the temperature range where microorganisms grow best (115-140o F).

Microbes convert ammonia and ammonia containing salts into protein and other nitrogen compounds the mushroom uses for food. The growth of these microbes depends on having the available food, adequate moisture, sufficient oxygen and suitable temperature. A shortage of one of these requirements will limit growth and often results in incomplete conditioning.

IX. Heat up (pasteurization) for insect kill early in Phase II (perhaps 1-4 days after filling) so as to avoid a second heating cycle of the compost.

A good indication that the compost is ready to pasteurized, is the subsiding of microbial activity, which is indicated by a decrease in compost temperature at the same air temperature.

X. After pasteurization slowly lower compost through the temperature ranges of the microorganisms. A general rule is to lower compost temperature no more than 4-5o F. per day. Provided that enough food, water and oxygen the microbes will continue to grow. Different microbes use different compounds and grow at different temperatures. Therefore it is important to make sure all areas of the beds and room gradually drop through all temperatures ranges.

Thermophillic fungi grow at lower temperatures and are important because they are able to grow into denser areas of compost.

XI. Composting is considered compete when no trace of ammonia odor can be detected and the compost has a uniform flecking of white colonies of actinomycetes, called fire-fang. The N content on a dry wt. basis should be in the range of 2.0 to 2.4.


--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation > Mushroom Cultivation Archive > Substrates
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