Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   North Spore Injection Grain Bag

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9  [ show all ]
OfflineHeffy
BrauMeister
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. * 1
    #12230719 - 03/19/10 12:09 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I don't want to start an argument in the other thread, but personally every time someone starts preaching the benefits of raw food diets to me I just roll my eyes.

They generally seem to have very poor information, and are in terrible health.
In fact a close friend of mine very nearly killed himself by following a raw food diet.
For years he was telling me all about how great raw food was, and how it cured all these problems he's had since he was little. Then one day he showed up in the ICU with potentially life threatening nutritional problems. At this point it looks like he will survive and recover. However I doubt he will ever be able to be physically active the way he was. We used to train martial arts together at the same Dojo, until his nutritional problems rendered him virtually incapable of participating.


Perhaps the people on this board are healthier than my friend, I doubt it though. His apartment was covered in mason jars of goji berries, nuts, and foods he prepared in his dehydrator. He espoused all the same pseudo-scientific ideas that I constantly hear from raw foodists, such as:

"Heating food above 118 degrees will kill all the enzymes in it."

and

"All foods are more nutritious in their raw form."


I don't doubt that someone could maintain a good standard of health while on a raw food diet. I just feel that most people don't.
Frankly I have yet to hear a single convincing argument that explains why a raw diet is healthier than a diet of raw and cooked foods.
However this doesn't stop people from killing their child with malnutrition, to indulge their lifestyle.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy] * 1
    #12230868 - 03/19/10 12:35 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I mean the whole basis behind eating raw foods is that certain vitamins can't be delivered unless eaten in its raw state.



But with that being said, the whole raw food diet is nothing more than a way for people to suffer.



It's got to be worse than being vegetarian.  Like not only can't u eat most meats, but now u can't even extract flavor or natural sugars out of that which u DO eat.



I have a friend whose been on the Raw food diet for a while now, and it's pretty useless going into his kitchen. 



I mean the whole discovery of fire and its ability to extract new flavors and textures out of food is one of those essential things that separates humans from almost all other animals.



You might as well revert to walking on all fours butt naked in a grazing field, munching up grass and then regurgitating it and eating it back up.


I mean why not, its good for you!


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMchaggis
cawbstawmper
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 5,307
Loc: 'Bama Ghost Country Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke] * 1
    #12230899 - 03/19/10 12:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Our current anatomy is designed around being a bipedal, carnivorous ape. A lot of human behavior is more like wolf-packs or lion-prides than ape troops.

Desmond Morris' The Naked Ape is a wonderful read.


--------------------
I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBothHands
Dog Coffee
Female User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 13,177
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy] * 1
    #12230980 - 03/19/10 12:55 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Omnivorous, vegetarian, and raw food diets are all compatible with our biology if done right.

An unbalanced omnivorous diet can be just as unhealthy as an unbalanced raw food diet. 

The number 1 killer in the United States is heart disease.  Obviously a large portion of omnivores are doing it wrong.

But you are correct, many people who eat raw food diets are also unhealthy, as they don't follow the diets properly.

In order to get one's daily 2000 calories from raw food, one needs to eat FAR more material.  The problem is that people who switch to raw food tend eat the same amount of food as they did while on omnivorous diets, and so don't they get enough calories. 

Personally, I'm a vegetarian.  It's for my own personal reasons, which are unimportant to this thread.  I have no intentions of changing your eating habits.

Some people find different eating habits work better for their bodies.  We're all a little different. 

I agree, if you're going to feed your child a raw food diet, then you better do some fucking research.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands] * 1
    #12231034 - 03/19/10 01:08 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
Omnivorous, vegetarian, and raw food diets are all compatible with our biology if done right.

An unbalanced omnivorous diet can be just as unhealthy as an unbalanced raw food diet. 

The number 1 killer in the United States is heart disease.  Obviously a large portion of omnivores are doing it wrong.








I dont know if you're implying that heart disease is related to an unbalance of omnivorous diet but...


when you eat without restrictions, the issue is more of caloric intake.




I mean being vegetarian is compatible with your body, but it sure does cause your intestinal flora to produce alot more gas.

Which is why vegetarians tend to have a bit more flatulance.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMchaggis
cawbstawmper
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 5,307
Loc: 'Bama Ghost Country Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke] * 1
    #12231056 - 03/19/10 01:13 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I can't find it but I read somewhere that because of excess flattus a vegetarian's carbon footprint was twice as big as an omnivore's. And a vegan's carbon footprint was even bigger.

I wish I could find that article. Makes sense though.


--------------------
I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBothHands
Dog Coffee
Female User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 13,177
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke] * 1
    #12231153 - 03/19/10 01:32 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You have to agree that a raw food diet is low in trans and saturated fat.  It's also low in cholesterol.

I'd venture to say it's impossible to take in too much bad fat on a raw food diet.

Again, I don't eat a raw diet.  I enjoy cooked food far too much.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands] * 1
    #12231210 - 03/19/10 01:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
You have to agree that a raw food diet is low in trans and saturated fat.  It's also low in cholesterol.







It's also low in flavor, and low in enjoyment.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBothHands
Dog Coffee
Female User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 13,177
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke] * 1
    #12231235 - 03/19/10 01:47 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I've had a few damn good raw meals.  But I agree for the most part.  Cooked food is tastey.

guacamole, hummus, avocados, olives, shredded carrots, red onions, basil, parsley, and lettuce wrapped in grape leaves = yum.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke] * 1
    #12231315 - 03/19/10 01:59 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

A raw food diet done properly is extremely healthy. I know tons of people in the raw community around where I live, including David Wolfe.. and they are all very healthy and constantly full of energy.

I'm not going to knock it because these people seem to enjoy it thoroughly. They love eating all raw, and they are super healthy..... so more power to them.

I myself will engage in the occasional raw dish - some of them are EXTREMELY tasty and enjoyable. You just have to know the right chefs.
I eat most of my fruits and veggies completely raw, or if cooked.. lightly stir fried or something. It IS true that when you cook a lot of these foods, you are killing vital nutrients and enzymes.

For example - pasteurized milk from grain fed cows. I could write a whole essay on why pasteurized cows milk is not good for you, but fortunately that has already been done. However, raw milk from grass fed cows is perfectly fine and contains all the necessary enzymes for your body to digest it properly, as well as tons of nutrients that are not found in pasteurized milk, because the pasteurization process kills it all. Pasteurization of milk became necessary because they were feeding these cows an unnatural diet and overmilking them and pumping them full of hormones, and they were producing inferior milk filled with pus and feces, so they had to pasteurize in order for it be even halfway considered worthy of human consumption. I'm sure some milk fanatics will tear into me for saying all this. But it's true.


That being said, I don't think I could ever go fully raw, there's just too many things I like cooked.
And I think it's sort of silly personally to go.. like 500% raw.. RAW EVERYTHING.
I mean sure, a large majority of your diet raw is very cool. But what about stuff that HAS to be cooked, or tastes better cooked.
Rice anyone? Sweet potatoes? DELICIOUS BACON? CHEEESE?  PIZZA???? I'm not willing to sacrifice these foods.

So I'm not gonna knock a 100% raw diet, because I've seen tons of people do it successfully and they seem to fully enjoy it.
But it's just not for me.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands] * 1
    #12231327 - 03/19/10 02:01 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

the main flaw with being vegetarian, is that you really sort of close yourself off from experiencing the majority of ethnic cultures in the world.  As pretty much all cultures revolve around food.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,587
Loc: To the limit! Flag
Last seen: 43 seconds
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke] * 1
    #12231940 - 03/19/10 03:21 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Idiot mother almost kills family with raw milk:

http://christopherfountain.com/2009/12/12/idiot-mother-feeds-her-kids-raw-milk-almost-kills-them-sues-whole-foods/

What's natural about humans drinking cow milk anyway?


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #12232207 - 03/19/10 03:57 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Nothing, really. Cow's milk is made for baby calfs to turn into 2,000+ lb beasts in a matter of weeks.

However, raw milk from grass fed cows is far healthier than pasteurized milk from grain fed.
And from what I understand, in order to produce "good" raw milk, the cow must be fed an entirely organic grass fed diet. i.e - what they would eat naturally in the wild.
Tainted with e-coli sounds like bad sanitation practices, not the milk's fault. And extremely rare.
It's not like this is something new. E-coli in spinach, in burger king burgers, etc etc.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,587
Loc: To the limit! Flag
Last seen: 43 seconds
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Shroomism] * 1
    #12232814 - 03/19/10 05:47 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Sounds like hippiemagic bullshit to me.


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #12232930 - 03/19/10 06:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy] * 1
    #12233570 - 03/19/10 07:54 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

What is the point anyways?  I mean the Japanese have some of the highest life expectancy rates in the entire world, and it seems to me that eating modest portions, eating more fish instead of less red meat, eating a lot of vegetables and including soy in their diet seems to be the trick.  Oh yeah, most of their food is cooked.  They seems to be doing mighty well eating cooked food.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesoochi
Chef
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 2,420
Loc: The Richest County
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy] * 1
    #12233739 - 03/19/10 08:24 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Some foods need to be cooked to get nutrition or more nutrition out of them. Mushrooms for one. Also canned tomatoes have higher levels of lycopene than fresh.


Another fad diet for people with too much money, time and not enough world exposure.


--------------------
Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: soochi] * 1
    #12233766 - 03/19/10 08:31 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

soochi said:

Another fad diet for people with too much money, time and not enough world exposure.






well put.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGetTheFuckOut
Long Gone.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/11/01
Posts: 60,898
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke] * 1
    #12234053 - 03/19/10 09:18 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i like my red meat as close to raw as i can get it.

never will i consider bee pollen a course though...


--------------------
<
I have logged in this once so that I can set the "last seen" feature up.  let the faggots flow forth into OTD and have it.  Its funny how they all grew nuts after I left.  I'm not here, I'm not reading, but I urge you all to keep melting down over me.  I know, I hurt alot of people, and they deserved it.  epic win for me, epic fail for you. 

ythan, you rock dude.  i feel that my time at the shroomery was very positive and enjoyable, but this site is no longer for me. im not mad or upset or disappointed, i just want no part in a pg rated faggot festival.
<


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemycochef
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 223
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: GetTheFuckOut] * 1
    #12238858 - 03/20/10 08:29 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Anyone here ever eaten a vegetarian?
Might like to try one someday perhaps liver and fava beans paired with a good chianti.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHeffy
BrauMeister
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: daussaulit]
    #12238881 - 03/20/10 08:33 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I'm fond of Harvard's healthy eating pyramid.



I have yet to find something that I think provides better guidelines for maintaining a good standard of health.

Sometimes I get a vibe from raw-foodsters that because I eat a mixed diet, I can't/don't eat raw foods. Like "well you don't get yadda yadda yadda eating cooked food!" As if I never eat raw food.
Meanwhile they are running around the city, going to health food stores looking for alternative raw sources to the nutrients they could get from cooked foods.


On a totally unrelated note. Why would anyone grain feed cows? Seems like grass is much cheaper, and less useful to humans. Why would a farmer waste his grain crops on cows when they could eat grass?


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBothHands
Dog Coffee
Female User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 13,177
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy]
    #12238904 - 03/20/10 08:37 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

A grass fed cow needs far, far more land to survive than a grain fed cow.  It saves money.

A grain fed cow only needs about 3 square meters of space, whereas a grass fed cow needs like 1/4 acre.

But that pyramid looks good.  Much better than the FDA's one, actually. 


Edited by BothHands (03/20/10 08:41 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHeffy
BrauMeister
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands]
    #12238921 - 03/20/10 08:40 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
A grass fed cow needs like 20 times more land to survive than a grain fed cow.  It saves money.

But that pyramid looks good.  Much better than the FDA's one, actually.



FDA one was heavily influenced by the grain, dairy, and meat industries.

It also completely ignores exercise as the most important part of maintaining a good standard of health.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHeffy
BrauMeister
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands]
    #12238947 - 03/20/10 08:45 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
A grass fed cow needs far, far more land to survive than a grain fed cow.  It saves money.

A grain fed cow only needs about 3 square meters of space, whereas a grass fed cow needs like 1/4 acre.





How many acres of grain do you figure the grain fed cow needs eats in a single harvest season?

Probably much less than grass. Still seems like a silly way to operate.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBothHands
Dog Coffee
Female User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 13,177
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy]
    #12238959 - 03/20/10 08:49 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, if you factor in how much land it takes to produce their food, grain fed cows still use a large amount of land.  But in the end, it's slightly less land.  So it's slightly cheaper.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineboO
Female User Gallery

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 5,364
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #12240338 - 03/21/10 05:20 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidSmoke said:
Quote:

soochi said:

Another fad diet for people with too much money, time and not enough world exposure.






well put.




agreed. i mean, cooking food is what makes us humans. no other animals cook their food (at least from what we have observed). i love cooked food. i love meat. i love veggies. i also love eating raw vegetables.

but, don't get me wrong, i don't condone people who practice a raw diet, they could do whatever the fuck they want with their bodies. :smile: i also think that the paleolithic diet that they're trying to market right now is also becoming a retarded fad. one of the advocates for the paleolithic diet, John Durant raves about how eating raw meat is good for us (i don't know about NOW, especially with the lax standards of how cows/chickens/pigs are raised, ESPECIALLY in the US), spends his time munching on raw veggies/fruits and conducts retreats where people run around rocks, act like cavemen and pay thousands of dollars to do this. LOL

There's a book by Richard Wrangham called "Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human" where he describes his theory of how 1.8 million years ago, homo erectus discovered cooking (though, he's still trying to find evidence of this in archaeology sites in Africa - charred bones/cut marks), went through evolutionary changes over time where the gut became smaller, thus freeing calories to fuel the growth of the brain instead. then you know what goes on from there...(the theory sounds plausible, but of course, more evidence is needed). there's one thing for sure, cooking freed up time - our ancient ancestors, even look at primates now, spent/spend their days continuously munching on veg/fruit in order to gain some energy.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTexasMyco
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 02/23/10
Posts: 124
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: boO]
    #12240708 - 03/21/10 08:17 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I would say your friend wasnt following a healthy safe raw food diet. Just like anything else if you arent following the outline youll end up in trouble.

Raw food diet is based on the idea that certain vitamins are lost during the cooking process, it isnt a cure all


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHeffy
BrauMeister
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: TexasMyco]
    #12240815 - 03/21/10 08:57 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TexasMyco said:
I would say your friend wasnt following a healthy safe raw food diet. Just like anything else if you arent following the outline youll end up in trouble.

Raw food diet is based on the idea that certain vitamins are lost during the cooking process, it isnt a cure all






What exactly is "the outline". I know he gathered his information from a variety of sources.

Most of the info I see about raw food diets is based on hearsay information from various places.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTexasMyco
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 02/23/10
Posts: 124
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy]
    #12240847 - 03/21/10 09:00 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

well i guess you would need to give me his daily routine. like what food, how much, washing food, ect... I was just pointing out that lots of people live healthy lives on a raw food diet but they follow the rules.

not that i do what celebs do, but a wellknown raw foodist is woody harelson, maybe ask him how he does it, since he is ripped and cut up and far from unhealthy.


Edited by TexasMyco (03/21/10 09:01 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHeffy
BrauMeister
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: TexasMyco]
    #12240904 - 03/21/10 09:09 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I was just pointing out that lots of people live healthy lives on a raw food diet but they follow the rules.





Which rules and guidelines? Outlined by who?

Surely not Woody Harelson. If he is the leading authority on raw food I'll eat my hat.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTexasMyco
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 02/23/10
Posts: 124
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy]
    #12240949 - 03/21/10 09:19 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I never claimed to have the "outline" (but any healthy diet has one) just the claim that if you dont follow it, outcomes like your friends are inevitable.

as to who the authority is on the subject i have no clue. once again i was just pointing out a higly public figure to illustrate that people do live on the diet with healthy desirbale results.


Edited by TexasMyco (03/21/10 09:20 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShea25
Just some guy
Male


Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 7,772
Loc: Westcoast Canada Flag
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands]
    #12241168 - 03/21/10 10:00 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
Yeah, if you factor in how much land it takes to produce their food, grain fed cows still use a large amount of land.  But in the end, it's slightly less land.  So it's slightly cheaper.





Maybe you should watch Food Inc and see how great grain fed cows are. They are meant to eat grass.

I personally don't want to be eating crappy filthy food produced at the cheapest cost. By no way am I a raw food guy, I love my rare steaks. But I love good food that was grown right and meat that was raised right.

Grass fed cattle have ALOT ALOT less E. coli in them then a grain fed cow

Wiki

E. coli

Escherichia coli, although considered to be part of the normal gut flora for many mammals (including humans), has many strains. Strain E. coli 0157:H7 is associated with human illness (and sometimes death) as a foodborne illness. A study by Cornell University [23] has determined that grass-fed animals have as much as 80% less of this strain of E. coli in their guts than their grain-fed counterparts, though this reduction can be achieved by switching an animal to grass only a few days prior to slaughter. Also, the amount of E. coli they do have is much less likely to survive our first-line defense against infection: stomach acid. This is because feeding grain to cattle makes their digestive tract abnormally acidic; over time, the pathogenic E. coli becomes acid-resistant.[24] If humans ingest this acid-resistant E. coli via grain-feed beef, a large number of them may survive past the stomach, causing an infection.[25] A study by the USDA Meat and Animal Research Center in Lincoln Nebraska (2000) has confirmed the Cornell research.[26][dubious – discuss]

Cows just are not meant to eat grain


Edited by Shea25 (03/21/10 10:08 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBothHands
Dog Coffee
Female User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 13,177
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Shea25]
    #12241404 - 03/21/10 10:44 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I agree, I would eat a grassfed cow long before I ever considered eating a grainfed cow.  I didn't say grainfed was better.  I said it was cheaper, and that's why they do it.

Though personally I prefer not to eat any cows.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands]
    #12242213 - 03/21/10 01:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:

Though personally I prefer not to eat any cows.








you don't sound like someone who eats food for enjoyment.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMchaggis
cawbstawmper
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 5,307
Loc: 'Bama Ghost Country Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Shea25]
    #12242259 - 03/21/10 01:31 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Just like humans are not meant to eat only raw foods :tongue:

Most beef cattle in Alabama graze in-pasture and are also fed grain. Trust me I spend a lotta time lookin' at cow patties and they seem to have maybe a 25% corn/soybean diet. Although some low-quality factory farms probably use straight grain. Grain fed cattle weigh more, and produce more meat. They make more money per cow that way.


--------------------
I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTexasMyco
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 02/23/10
Posts: 124
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Mchaggis]
    #12242318 - 03/21/10 01:41 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

cheesemakers look for grass fed cows only because the milk is sweeter, so depending on your business you may make more money grass feeding and people pay a premium for the milk.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBothHands
Dog Coffee
Female User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 13,177
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #12242329 - 03/21/10 01:43 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidSmoke said:
Quote:

BothHands said:

Though personally I prefer not to eat any cows.








you don't sound like someone who eats food for enjoyment.





Actually I love cooking and I love food.  I'm not a raw foodie, not even vegan.  Vegetarian.  I agree, it does limit my choices, but there are tons of great vegetarians foods.

Portabella burgers are one of my favorite.  With a mixture of feta cheese, chopped red pepper, chopped de-seeded tomatoes, salt, pepper, fresh oregano, and red wine vinegar on top.

I make some awesome vegetarian burritos and pizza too.

Gardein also makes some amazing meat replacements.  They're thousands of times better than Morning Star, Boca, or any of the other brands.  They don't contain any partially hydrogenated oils.  Plus, as a female, I don't have to worry about the phytoestrogens, allowing soy to be a staple in my diet.


Edited by BothHands (03/21/10 01:48 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands]
    #12242634 - 03/21/10 02:22 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I think alot of the shortcomings with vegetarian food is the flaw of western culture.



Like i don't really understand this infatuation with making meat substitutes out of vegetable ingrediants.


I mean to me it's just like a tease, an immitation, a Plan B to the real thing.



Yet if you go to a place like say, India, who've been cooking vegetarian foods devotely for centuries, the diversity and quality of vegetarian dishes is pretty incredible.



Like what people do to Tofu in this country is pretty laughable.  That's why so many westerners have lost respect for tofu.  Cuz people are trying to wrap em up in veggie wraps, using it to shape artificial turkeys, etc.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBothHands
Dog Coffee
Female User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 13,177
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #12242705 - 03/21/10 02:33 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I actually have several Indian cook books.  Indian food's one of my favorites.

I don't generally eat tofu though, because I've never been too successful in cooking it.  I usually only eat tofu from Chinese restaurants, and often even their tofu is disgusting.  But this mom and pop Chinese restaurant by my house really does it well.  Not even sure what the place it called, but it says "China" in a flickering light above the restaurant. 

The meat substitutes are mainly for nostalgia and laziness.  I don't usually spend more than 15$ a month of them.  Gardein is truely first rate though.  None of the other brands compare.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands]
    #12243228 - 03/21/10 03:53 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

the thing that westerners dont understand about tofu is, the nature in which is was always used


its a neutralizing element like say, mashed potatos, grits, or a bowl of rice, or bread.


but it's texture and overall flavor absorbing nature makes its whole purpose something to temper surrounding stronger flavors in liquid form, i.e. stews, soups, or marinades.




The most defining tofu dish in my opinion, is mapo tofu.  Because the tofu element of the dish is truely essential to making everything else work.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBothHands
Dog Coffee
Female User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 13,177
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #12243387 - 03/21/10 04:22 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I just found a few mapo tofu recipes, but the ones I found all used ground pork.  Is it a dish that can be done without meat?  Happen to know where I can find a recipe?

Also, if you know where I could get some other vegetarian Asian or North African recipes that you believe to be particularly good, I'd really appreciate some direction.  I love experimenting with food, and trying new things. 

I appreciate the help. :grin:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands]
    #12243797 - 03/21/10 05:40 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

There are a lot of Moroccan dishes without meat which heavily use lentils and are delicious. I'll see if I can find anything. I've never made the dishes, but had them at various restaurants.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium Flag
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands]
    #12243875 - 03/21/10 05:56 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
A grass fed cow needs far, far more land to survive than a grain fed cow.  It saves money.

A grain fed cow only needs about 3 square meters of space, whereas a grass fed cow needs like 1/4 acre.

But that pyramid looks good.  Much better than the FDA's one, actually. 







not really.  look at how much acreage is used to grow the grain to feed the cattle.  the room to house the cattle.  the land needed to deposit their waste onto, etc...

free range cattle should be/are rotated, and a couple acres of good forage could support a small, properly managed herd


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands]
    #12244451 - 03/21/10 07:29 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
I just found a few mapo tofu recipes, but the ones I found all used ground pork.  Is it a dish that can be done without meat?  Happen to know where I can find a recipe?

Also, if you know where I could get some other vegetarian Asian or North African recipes that you believe to be particularly good, I'd really appreciate some direction.  I love experimenting with food, and trying new things. 

I appreciate the help. :grin:







mapo tofu can be made without meat, but then it wouldn't really be mapo tofu.


i didn't mean to suggest it's a vegetarian dish, it's just the best possible use of tofu out there.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,587
Loc: To the limit! Flag
Last seen: 43 seconds
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #12245998 - 03/21/10 11:37 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidSmoke said:
I think alot of the shortcomings with vegetarian food is the flaw of western culture.



Like i don't really understand this infatuation with making meat substitutes out of vegetable ingrediants.


I mean to me it's just like a tease, an immitation, a Plan B to the real thing.



Yet if you go to a place like say, India, who've been cooking vegetarian foods devotely for centuries, the diversity and quality of vegetarian dishes is pretty incredible.



Like what people do to Tofu in this country is pretty laughable.  That's why so many westerners have lost respect for tofu.  Cuz people are trying to wrap em up in veggie wraps, using it to shape artificial turkeys, etc.





Fuck yes. I went to the harvest festival at the Summertown, TN  commune several years ago where they serve only vegan food for the entire 3 day event,which consists of about 30% "meat substitute" i.e TVP, gluten and fucking YEAST CHEESE  :projectile: . By the end of it I just wanted to scream WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE JUST GIVE ME SOME STEAMED FUCKING BROCCOLI AND SOME SALT!!!


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesoochi
Chef
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 2,420
Loc: The Richest County
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands]
    #12248854 - 03/22/10 01:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Cows are supposed to eat grass. Not grain that humans can consume as well. Grass fed beef tastes better and is a better quality meat. It's also usually more expensive.


--------------------
Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMchaggis
cawbstawmper
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 5,307
Loc: 'Bama Ghost Country Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #12248898 - 03/22/10 01:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

yeah, The Farm is pretty lame. I live too close to have avoided it.


--------------------
I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSenor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Mchaggis]
    #12262323 - 03/24/10 12:45 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Well, let me try to give a basic pyramid for how a sustainable vegan diet is supposed to look, since I feel I can at least contribute that.

The base of the pyramid would be fibrous vegetables.  About 45 percent of daily calories should come from a combination of leafy green and brightly colored vegetables. 

The second tier includes fruits and legumes.  20 percent caloric intake of each.

Above this are your cold pressed oils, nuts, avacado.  10 percent caloric intake.

5 percent caloric intake of whole grains and starchy vegetables top it off.

Of course it is important (always) to eat a large variety of foods to increase the odds of getting all required nutrients from diet.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


Edited by Senor_Doobie (03/24/10 12:45 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #12262426 - 03/24/10 01:00 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBothHands
Dog Coffee
Female User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 13,177
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #12262480 - 03/24/10 01:06 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

:shrug:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: BothHands]
    #12262649 - 03/24/10 01:25 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

it's brisket son,



brisket


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMchaggis
cawbstawmper
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 5,307
Loc: 'Bama Ghost Country Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #12262695 - 03/24/10 01:29 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

45% straight leafy vegetables sounds like a recipe for the runs for me :shrug: bread and cheese please?


--------------------
I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offline2859558484
Growery is Better
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,752
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Mchaggis]
    #12263030 - 03/24/10 02:08 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

cheese tortures animals brah


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGetTheFuckOut
Long Gone.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/11/01
Posts: 60,898
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #12263114 - 03/24/10 02:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidSmoke said:




:owned:


--------------------
<
I have logged in this once so that I can set the "last seen" feature up.  let the faggots flow forth into OTD and have it.  Its funny how they all grew nuts after I left.  I'm not here, I'm not reading, but I urge you all to keep melting down over me.  I know, I hurt alot of people, and they deserved it.  epic win for me, epic fail for you. 

ythan, you rock dude.  i feel that my time at the shroomery was very positive and enjoyable, but this site is no longer for me. im not mad or upset or disappointed, i just want no part in a pg rated faggot festival.
<


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSenor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Mchaggis]
    #12263269 - 03/24/10 02:43 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mchaggis said:
45% straight leafy vegetables sounds like a recipe for the runs for me :shrug: bread and cheese please?




Yeah because that's the effect fiber has on your bowels, right?



--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


Edited by Senor_Doobie (03/24/10 09:11 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFlusH
Random person on Internet


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 2,910
Loc: Bizzaro World
Last seen: 15 days, 17 hours
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #12268382 - 03/25/10 09:05 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Here is just my 2 cents I feel like I should contribute..

A close friend of mine has been vegan for 30 years.  Now she is nearing 50 years old and has some serious health issues from not eating meat in the last 30 years. 

Her reason for choosing a vegan lifestyle was just that she did not like the taste of meat.  Now under doctors orders she is eating chicken and fish to get some of the nutrients which she cannot get from veggies alone.

After one month of her changing her diet she looks way more healthy, has way more energy, and is a happier person all together.

She now too is trying to encourage her vegan friends to at least eat fish or take cod liver extract oils along with their vegan diet.

I know I cant back up any of this with scientific resources, and I have sent her an email asking what medical condition she was developing so I can relay it back here.  I am also asking her if she minds writing up a bit on her experiences with the raw food diet.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMchaggis
cawbstawmper
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 5,307
Loc: 'Bama Ghost Country Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #12268408 - 03/25/10 09:11 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
Quote:

Mchaggis said:
45% straight leafy vegetables sounds like a recipe for the runs for me :shrug: bread and cheese please?




Yeah because that's the effect fiber has on your bowels, right?






Don't get me wrong some insoluble fiber's nice, it's nice pooping regularly. Unless regularly means water-shits once an hour like it would be trying to get 45% of my caloric intake from leafy greens (which are catabolic, by the way, I have no idea how you're s'posed to get any calories from stuff like iceberg lettuce)


--------------------
I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTexasMyco
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 02/23/10
Posts: 124
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Mchaggis]
    #12275081 - 03/26/10 07:37 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

who claims to get lots of calories from iceburg lettuce anyways?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSenor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: TexasMyco]
    #12276621 - 03/26/10 12:36 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Nobody I know of.  Iceberg lettuce is relatively void of any nutrition.  Again, a wide variety of food is necessary.  There are many leafy green vegetables.  Equally important to leafy greens are your fibrous vegetables such as carrots, celery, zucchini, onions, asparagus. 

45 percent, or the base of the optimal vegan diet consists of all of these...not iceberg lettuce.  Again, variety is key.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSenor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Mchaggis]
    #12276725 - 03/26/10 12:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I apologize for the confusion.  Leafy green is just one component of that 45 percent.  It is a lot of fibrous ingredients.  Fiber is very good for your digestion.  Both soluble and insoluble.  Remember insoluble comes out solid, not watery...

A wide variety of food is necessary to eat successfully without meat.  I believe that it can be done but you have to research it a good deal and take vitamin B supplements. 

A very important factor is making sure the body gets protein.  This is why the leafy green vegetables are so important.  Oils are also important. 

To me its like the thing about this culture is how heavy it is on meat.  Some meat can definitely help you running at a healthy level, but its benefits are greatly outweighed by the risks caused through overindulgence, especially in red meat, but really, too much animal protien from any source reeks havoc on the body.  Heart disease, most cancers,diabetes, all the #1 killers in this country can be linked to high cholesterol which can very easily be linked to a carnivorous lifestyle.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefugazi32
Hardcore Raver & Junglist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Milton Keynes, England
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy]
    #13085999 - 08/22/10 10:56 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If humans were meant to eat cooked food then we would breathe fire. Simple as....before we discovered fire and invented tools everything we ate was RAW. :thumbup:


--------------------
“Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence." - Robert Anton Wilson

It is so obvious: Psilocybin Mushrooms are living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy! :mushroom2:


Edited by fugazi32 (08/22/10 10:56 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: fugazi32]
    #13086077 - 08/22/10 11:18 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fugazi32 said:
If humans were meant to eat cooked food then we would breathe fire. Simple as....before we discovered fire and invented tools everything we ate was RAW. :thumbup:




That actually makes sense - but either way it was :lol:

No, I do not think we had Hibachi in the garden of eden :lol:


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: fugazi32]
    #13086438 - 08/22/10 01:02 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fugazi32 said:
If humans were meant to eat cooked food then we would breathe fire. Simple as....before we discovered fire and invented tools everything we ate was RAW. :thumbup:



Who is this "we" that discovered fire and invented tools?  Homo sapiens have always used fire and tools.  It was the pre-human hominid species homo erectus that discovered how to make fire, and homo habilus that first made stone tools.  And homo habilus didn't even walk upright(they looked more ape-like than human).  Our species was already making fire and using tools when it first evolved.  Thus, our bodies are well-adapted to the consumption of cooked food.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleyogabunnyM
fancy cat
Female User Gallery


Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 11,281
Loc: Nasty Women Get Shit Done
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Silversoul]
    #13087450 - 08/22/10 06:03 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

what bothers me mostly about raw food enthusiasts is that they have this elitist attitude.  like, because this seems to work for me EVERYONE should do it, and they're generally really in your face about it.  they have this kind of holier than thou vibe, like because you're not a raw foodist, that you don't have the foggiest clue about eating healthy.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: yogabunny]
    #13087518 - 08/22/10 06:26 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

:lol:
I am way too eclectic and enjoy the joy of food too much for that :lol:


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHeffy
BrauMeister
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: fugazi32]
    #13090409 - 08/23/10 12:38 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

:facepalm: 4 month threadbump

Quote:

fugazi32 said:
Simple as....before we discovered fire and invented tools everything sucked fucking ass.



Fixed.


If you don't want to live in a house, or eat cooked food, or use tools be my guest.

I'll stick with technology and modern conveniences thank you very much.


After all if humans were supposed to live in houses we would have hammers for hands....right?:facepalm:


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: soochi]
    #13091186 - 08/23/10 03:42 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

soochi said:
Some foods need to be cooked to get nutrition or more nutrition out of them. Mushrooms for one. Also canned tomatoes have higher levels of lycopene than fresh.


Another fad diet for people with too much money, time and not enough world exposure.





Tell that to my brother, who just by increasing his raw food intake to about 80%, completly eliminated his psoriasis which he suffered for 5 years with to no avail of the medical or natural health industry.

Lol, if I saw you saying such nonsense, especially after you obviously know FUCK all about it, I would laugh at your face and hope that you eventually see the truth about your diet.

Note: I disagree that 100% raw is better than 80-90%, with SOME fish and/or preferably fresh seafood.

I have a study that shows that cancer incidence on all scales and through all types of cancers is by far decreased the most through consumption of raw forms of fruit, vegetables and nuts. I might be able to find it, but if not I will post it in a few days.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13093016 - 08/23/10 09:46 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

soochi said:
Some foods need to be cooked to get nutrition or more nutrition out of them. Mushrooms for one. Also canned tomatoes have higher levels of lycopene than fresh.


Another fad diet for people with too much money, time and not enough world exposure.





Tell that to my brother, who just by increasing his raw food intake to about 80%, completly eliminated his psoriasis which he suffered for 5 years with to no avail of the medical or natural health industry.

Lol, if I saw you saying such nonsense, especially after you obviously know FUCK all about it, I would laugh at your face and hope that you eventually see the truth about your diet.

Note: I disagree that 100% raw is better than 80-90%, with SOME fish and/or preferably fresh seafood.

I have a study that shows that cancer incidence on all scales and through all types of cancers is by far decreased the most through consumption of raw forms of fruit, vegetables and nuts. I might be able to find it, but if not I will post it in a few days.



I don't know much about psoriasis, but a quick search yields that fasting and switching to a low energy diet may be beneficial(though it seems that results very wildly).  It sounds like when your brother switched to a raw foods diet, he was effectively reducing the nutrition that was available to him. What would be an interesting experiment would be for him to reintroduce foods that he had previously eliminated and see if the psoriasis comes back or that he switch back to cooked foods, but keep his caloric intake the same as it is now.

Our ancestors have been eating cooked foods for well over a million years, and yet life expectancy continues to rise in spite of our diet of cooked foods.

soochi is right though, cooked tomatoes have more lycopene than raw tomatoes.  That is a fact.
Raw eggs only about half of nutrition of a cooked egg.  That is also a fact.

There is already that other thread, but I'll copy and paste it anyways.
Food For Thought: Meat-Based Diet Made Us Smarter

Quote:

As we slice up the turnip and put the potatoes in a pot, Wrangham explains that even after we started eating meat, raw food just didn't pack the energy to build the big-brained, small-toothed modern human. He cites research that showed that people on a raw food diet, including meat and oil, lost a lot of weight. Many said they felt better, but also experienced chronic energy deficiency. And half the women in the experiment stopped menstruating.

It's not as if raw food isn't nutritious; it's just harder for the body to get at the nutrition.


Wrangham urges me to try some raw turnip. Not too bad, but hardly enough to get the juices flowing. "They've got a tremendous amount of caloric energy in them," he says. "The problem is that it's in the form of starch, which unless you cook it, does not give you very much."

Then there's all the chewing that raw food requires. Chimps, for example, sometimes chew for six hours a day. That actually consumes a lot of energy.




Quote:

As for starchy foods like turnips, cooking gelatinizes the tough starch granules and makes them easier to digest too. Even just softening food — which cooking does — makes it more digestible. In the end, you get more energy out of the food.

Yes, cooking can damage some good things in raw food, like vitamins. But Wrangham argues that what's gained by cooking far outweighs the losses.



This is coming from a professor of anthropology at Harvard.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefugazi32
Hardcore Raver & Junglist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Milton Keynes, England
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Silversoul]
    #13113099 - 08/28/10 06:57 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:Our species was already making fire and using tools when it first evolved.  Thus, our bodies are well-adapted to the consumption of cooked food.




Hmmm....is that so??! Then why do the tribes that still eat raw/whole foods live longer and have no cancer rates or heart disease? :eek:

Read: Raw Perfection - it might clear things up some what... :wink:


--------------------
“Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence." - Robert Anton Wilson

It is so obvious: Psilocybin Mushrooms are living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy! :mushroom2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: fugazi32]
    #13113297 - 08/28/10 08:34 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fugazi32 said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:Our species was already making fire and using tools when it first evolved.  Thus, our bodies are well-adapted to the consumption of cooked food.




Hmmm....is that so??! Then why do the tribes that still eat raw/whole foods live longer and have no cancer rates or heart disease? :eek:




Which tribes in which country?  Can you cite any your sources?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHeffy
BrauMeister
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: fugazi32]
    #13113635 - 08/28/10 10:31 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fugazi32 said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:Our species was already making fire and using tools when it first evolved.  Thus, our bodies are well-adapted to the consumption of cooked food.




Hmmm....is that so??! Then why do the tribes that still eat raw/whole foods live longer and have no cancer rates or heart disease? :eek:

Read: Raw Perfection - it might clear things up some what... :wink:





Raw food diets are total BS. I'm not going to read a stupid book espousing raw food diets when I know enough about them already to know that they offer no real health benefits over a well balanced diet that includes cooked foods.

Most of the outrageous claims made by the raw foodist(who clearly know nothing about proteins, enzymes, and carbohydrates) have been thoroughly debunked.

If you think that your "tribes" live so large with no fire or tools, I say go join them. At least it wold get this raw food pseudoscience tripe off the internet.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefugazi32
Hardcore Raver & Junglist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Milton Keynes, England
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: daussaulit]
    #13114475 - 08/28/10 02:22 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

daussaulit said:
Which tribes in which country?  Can you cite any your sources?




The Hunza tribe, who live in the remote Himalayan range between Pakistan, India, and China.

Google is your friend... :smile:


--------------------
“Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence." - Robert Anton Wilson

It is so obvious: Psilocybin Mushrooms are living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy! :mushroom2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: fugazi32]
    #13116310 - 08/28/10 08:22 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fugazi32 said:
Quote:

daussaulit said:
Which tribes in which country?  Can you cite any your sources?




The Hunza tribe, who live in the remote Himalayan range between Pakistan, India, and China.

Google is your friend... :smile:



Google is my friend?
Well tell me how I was suppose to find out which tribe using the wealth of information that you have provided me with your post:

Quote:

fugazi32 said:
Hmmm....is that so??! Then why do the tribes that still eat raw/whole foods live longer and have no cancer rates or heart disease? :eek:

Read: Raw Perfection - it might clear things up some what... :wink:



I've tried several search terms using only the words in your quote, and I was unable to find anything related to the Hunza. 

By the way, this Hunza tribe, they have medical professionals and screen the entire population annually for cancer and have published papers about their people's highest longevity and 0% cancer and heart disease rates? I still can't find that.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: daussaulit]
    #13123494 - 08/30/10 11:50 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

highest longevity with average lifespans at the 120-145yr mark
should we also believe that people in the pre christian era also lived to
900yrs, my big question about the Hunza would be why do they raise sheep
and goats if not for meat and fibers, meat can be dried and smoked as well
as cooked, do the raw foods diets include raw meat?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelovecheese
observer
Male


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 682
Loc: n. illinois
Last seen: 8 months, 23 hours
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13124008 - 08/30/10 01:51 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
highest longevity with average lifespans at the 120-145yr mark
should we also believe that people in the pre christian era also lived to
900yrs, my big question about the Hunza would be why do they raise sheep
and goats if not for meat and fibers, meat can be dried and smoked as well
as cooked, do the raw foods diets include raw meat?



yes, but in this day and age, since we don't feed cattle, goats, pigs, etc their natural diets we expose them to gastrointestinal bacteria and disease that is carried through their bloodstream and deposited into muscles and meat. only way to kill that disease/bacteria is to cook the meat.

a lot of raw foodists, who aren't raw vegans, eat raw free range bison.

daniel vitalis swears by it. he's a raw foodist but far from a raw vegan. look him up he's a pretty cool guy with some levelheaded theories.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelovecheese
observer
Male


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 682
Loc: n. illinois
Last seen: 8 months, 23 hours
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy]
    #13124023 - 08/30/10 01:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Heffy said:
Quote:

fugazi32 said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:Our species was already making fire and using tools when it first evolved.  Thus, our bodies are well-adapted to the consumption of cooked food.




Hmmm....is that so??! Then why do the tribes that still eat raw/whole foods live longer and have no cancer rates or heart disease? :eek:

Read: Raw Perfection - it might clear things up some what... :wink:





Raw food diets are total BS. I'm not going to read a stupid book espousing raw food diets when I know enough about them already to know that they offer no real health benefits over a well balanced diet that includes cooked foods.

Most of the outrageous claims made by the raw foodist(who clearly know nothing about proteins, enzymes, and carbohydrates) have been thoroughly debunked.

If you think that your "tribes" live so large with no fire or tools, I say go join them. At least it wold get this raw food pseudoscience tripe off the internet.



ok mr. king of knowledge, teach me.

and your statement REEKS of ignorance. in fact, it reminds me of this article http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-already-knows-everything-he-needs-to-know-abou,17990/
so you're either a troll or ignorant (and there is nothing wrong with ignorance if you seek to educate yourself)


Edited by lovecheese (08/30/10 02:01 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: lovecheese]
    #13127872 - 08/31/10 07:44 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

chairlock3d said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
highest longevity with average lifespans at the 120-145yr mark
should we also believe that people in the pre christian era also lived to
900yrs, my big question about the Hunza would be why do they raise sheep
and goats if not for meat and fibers, meat can be dried and smoked as well
as cooked, do the raw foods diets include raw meat?



yes, but in this day and age, since we don't feed cattle, goats, pigs, etc their natural diets we expose them to gastrointestinal bacteria and disease that is carried through their bloodstream and deposited into muscles and meat. only way to kill that disease/bacteria is to cook the meat.



Wow, where do you get your information from?

The feed that livestock consume changes the normal pH balance in their digestive tract, causing an imbalance of bacterial flora that is there naturally. The bacteria and disease does not get carried through the blood stream if the animal is healthy. Bacteria and disease does not get "deposited" into muscles. I could understand if there was lameness in livestock, but the animal should/would probably be destroyed instead of ending up in the food supply.

So, if bacteria is "deposited" into the muscles and meat, how is it that millions of steaks are consumed every year cooked less than well done without causing millions to be ill with a food borne illness?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelovecheese
observer
Male


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 682
Loc: n. illinois
Last seen: 8 months, 23 hours
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: daussaulit]
    #13128008 - 08/31/10 08:52 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

daussaulit said:
Quote:

chairlock3d said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
highest longevity with average lifespans at the 120-145yr mark
should we also believe that people in the pre christian era also lived to
900yrs, my big question about the Hunza would be why do they raise sheep
and goats if not for meat and fibers, meat can be dried and smoked as well
as cooked, do the raw foods diets include raw meat?



yes, but in this day and age, since we don't feed cattle, goats, pigs, etc their natural diets we expose them to gastrointestinal bacteria and disease that is carried through their bloodstream and deposited into muscles and meat. only way to kill that disease/bacteria is to cook the meat.



Wow, where do you get your information from?

The feed that livestock consume changes the normal pH balance in their digestive tract, causing an imbalance of bacterial flora that is there naturally. The bacteria and disease does not get carried through the blood stream if the animal is healthy. Bacteria and disease does not get "deposited" into muscles. I could understand if there was lameness in livestock, but the animal should/would probably be destroyed instead of ending up in the food supply.

So, if bacteria is "deposited" into the muscles and meat, how is it that millions of steaks are consumed every year cooked less than well done without causing millions to be ill with a food borne illness?



I didn't say that every single piece of meat is infected with disease. Plus the US irradiates raw meat to kill off most bacteria, rendering not naturally raw. Doesn't kill all bacteria either, so meat shouldn't sit at room temperature for long or the bacteria will multiply at an alarming rate.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: lovecheese]
    #13128783 - 08/31/10 12:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

chairlock3d said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
highest longevity with average lifespans at the 120-145yr mark
should we also believe that people in the pre christian era also lived to
900yrs, my big question about the Hunza would be why do they raise sheep
and goats if not for meat and fibers, meat can be dried and smoked as well
as cooked, do the raw foods diets include raw meat?



yes, but in this day and age, since we don't feed cattle, goats, pigs, etc their natural diets we expose them to gastrointestinal bacteria and disease that is carried through their bloodstream and deposited into muscles and meat. only way to kill that disease/bacteria is to cook the meat.





to the contrary, cattle are grazed most of their lives just as they've
always been, the factory farming concept is mostly myth

Quote:

a lot of raw foodists, who aren't raw vegans, eat raw free range bison.





http://www.bisoncentre.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=214&Itemid=313


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: daussaulit]
    #13128817 - 08/31/10 12:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

daussaulit said:
The feed that livestock consume changes the normal pH balance in their digestive tract, causing an imbalance of bacterial flora that is there naturally.





http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/400/400-010/400-010.html

In addition to reducing the size of feed particles, the mouth aids in digestion by adding saliva to the feed. Cows will produce 20-35 gallons of saliva a day. The saliva helps moisten the feed. Saliva also contains sodium bicarbonate to keep the rumen at the proper neutral pH (6.5-7.2) for good microbial growth. Much of the water contained in saliva is recycled by the cow.



Quote:

The bacteria and disease does not get carried through the blood stream if the animal is healthy. Bacteria and disease does not get "deposited" into muscles. I could understand if there was lameness in livestock, but the animal should/would probably be destroyed instead of ending up in the food supply.




parasites can find their way into meat and you're right 'downer cattle'
are not processed, it's illegal and results in huge fines and lawsuits,
typically food borne illness from meats comes from improper handling and
cooking


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChespirito
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13129621 - 08/31/10 04:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunza_people

"The people of Hunza are by some noted for their exceptionally long life expectancy,[5] others describe this as a longevity narrative and cite a life expectancy of 53 years for men and 52 for women, although with a high standard deviation. [6] "

5: http://books.google.com/books?id=lMfSuHgabYoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=wheel+of+health&hl=en&ei=El9kTMHPAo3QcffGxJYF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

6: http://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/29/magazine/the-optimists-are-right.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

From number 6 "The great Hunza secret to old age turned out to be its absence of birth records. The illiterate elders didn't know how old they were, and they tended to overestimate their ages by a decade or two, as I discovered by comparing their recollections with known historical events. Hunza didn't have an unusual number of centenarians, it turned out, and its traditional way of life was not a formula for good health."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Chespirito]
    #13136114 - 09/01/10 08:58 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

I'm sure this has been posted in this thread before, but I'll add it just for good measure.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineReposadoXochipilli
Here, there, inbetween
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 7,501
Loc: Sand and sunshine
Last seen: 18 days, 14 hours
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13140046 - 09/02/10 07:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i have 2 roomies that are vegetarians, and although both are intelligent people, they seem to clutch to ideas about food and health that just are not true, and follow it up it a bunch of chips and pre packaged foods while thinking they are more healthy.

raw foods must work for some people but my modern lifestyle would not allow me to do much more then eat in my free time and work, thats it.

I for one always love food, food is love, heat it up :wink:

the entire better then thou meatless thing blows me away...


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefugazi32
Hardcore Raver & Junglist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Milton Keynes, England
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
    #13149518 - 09/05/10 06:56 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Knewnews said:the entire better then thou meatless thing blows me away...




Being a vegetarian, which is something I keep to myself and not enforce on others, I often find it is the meat eaters who wave it my face instead with the not-so-true arguments. My father-in-law in convinced humans are meant to eat meat, due to the fact we have canines - when so do gorillas! Our biology points towards more of a herbivore/vegetarian diet. (Length of intestines, we chew our food, no claws, etc). But he still won't accept it! Some people don't like having their reality tunnels and vices challenged... :sad:


--------------------
“Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence." - Robert Anton Wilson

It is so obvious: Psilocybin Mushrooms are living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy! :mushroom2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: fugazi32]
    #13150486 - 09/05/10 11:59 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fugazi32 said:
My father-in-law in convinced humans are meant to eat meat, due to the fact we have canines - when so do gorillas!






did you ever think to see if gorillas eat meat or did you simply choose to believe they were herbivores

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100305-first-proof-gorillas-eat-monkeys-mammals-feces-dna/

Quote:

Our biology points towards more of a herbivore/vegetarian diet. (Length of intestines, we chew our food, no claws, etc). But he still won't accept it! Some people don't like having their reality tunnels and vices challenged... :sad:




probably because he's rights, it's been 4 million years since our
ancestors were last strictly herbivorous, we evolved to what we are now,
becoming carnivorous... why stay so stuck in the past, move into the future


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSenor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13150573 - 09/05/10 12:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You really oughta read an article before you post it.

Quote:

gorillas are known to eat ants that scavenge the carcasses and bones of monkeys and other mammals. When gorillas eat the ants, they may also be ingesting—and later expelling—the mammal DNA in the ants' digestive tracts, the study authors speculate.

Another possibility is that the mammal DNA came from live monkeys or duikers that had been probing the gorilla feces for edible seeds or other leftover plant bits.

Or the mammals "might have just licked it, sniffed it, or peed on it," Schubert said.

"There's plenty of opportunities" for adding mammal DNA to gorilla scat after the fact, Schubert said. "I don't really think they're eating meat."




--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #13151096 - 09/05/10 02:36 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I did read it and the most plausible is that they do on occasion eat meat
not to mention that eating insects excludes them from eating a strictly
plant based diet


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13152344 - 09/05/10 07:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I did read it and the most plausible is that they do on occasion eat meat
not to mention that eating insects excludes them from eating a strictly
plant based diet




Most humans eat FAR more meat than gorillas. The vast majority of their diet is fruit and plants. Same with Chimpanzees, who are the closest cousin to us. They are also about 5 times pound for pound stronger than humans. The homo sapien, originating from a tropical environment, evolved from and to eat a mostly fruit based diet - it is what our bodies can most easily digest and convert into energy. The 80-10-10 diet book I posted has some interested case studies which look at the people of our world who have the longest life spans. Guess what they eat!? :banana:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTri High
Whigro
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 11,769
Loc: Monaghan, Ireland
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13152451 - 09/05/10 08:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

we're omnivores, anyhow.  not carnivored.

:foreheadslap:


--------------------
you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSenor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13152479 - 09/05/10 08:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

So your conclusion, on a study you haven't even read, oppose that of the scientist who actually conducted the study.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


Edited by Senor_Doobie (09/05/10 08:06 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTri High
Whigro
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 11,769
Loc: Monaghan, Ireland
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #13152562 - 09/05/10 08:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

he's part of the secret service, man.

cointel pro.
spread disinformation whereever however he can. 
I'd be willing to put money on that.

might as well disregard every opinion he has, unless he's making a quip.


--------------------
you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13153133 - 09/05/10 10:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Most humans eat FAR more meat than gorillas. The vast majority of their diet is fruit and plants. Same with Chimpanzees, who are the closest cousin to us. They are also about 5 times pound for pound stronger than humans.




they also have the intelligence of a 5yo human, humans by the way are in fact not gorillas and chimps, the point being that we evolved as did your diets, studies show that the meat consumption is at least in part responsible for our greater intelligence


 
Quote:

The homo sapien, originating from a tropical environment, evolved from and to eat a mostly fruit based diet - it is what our bodies can most easily digest and convert into energy.




4 million years of evolution in our diet think that doesnt affect the way we've evolved, think maybe we're still meant to be on that 80% fruit diet, explain why Homo neanderthalensis ate almost exclusively meat

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC16602/?tool=pmcentrez
Quote:

The isotope evidence overwhelmingly points to the Neanderthals behaving as top-level carnivores, obtaining almost all of their dietary protein from animal sources.





Quote:

The 80-10-10 diet book I posted has some interested case studies which look at the people of our world who have the longest life spans. Guess what they eat!? :banana:





you may want to check that lifespan claim, shown by country, which ones are dominantly vegetarian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #13153167 - 09/05/10 10:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
So your conclusion, on a study you haven't even read, oppose that of the scientist who actually conducted the study.





they suggested other ways that mammalian DNA could have been incorporated, why does occams razor apply to everything but what someone else opposes, sure it's possible another gorilla just came by and licked it and moved on but what are the odds every sample tested and showing DNA from other mammals were contaminated

Quote:

While some zoo specimens are known to eat meat, wild gorillas eat only plants and fruit, along with the odd insect-as far as scientists know.




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelovecheese
observer
Male


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 682
Loc: n. illinois
Last seen: 8 months, 23 hours
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13153182 - 09/05/10 10:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I did read it and the most plausible is that they do on occasion eat meat
not to mention that eating insects excludes them from eating a strictly
plant based diet




Most humans eat FAR more meat than gorillas. The vast majority of their diet is fruit and plants. Same with Chimpanzees, who are the closest cousin to us. They are also about 5 times pound for pound stronger than humans. The homo sapien, originating from a tropical environment, evolved from and to eat a mostly fruit based diet - it is what our bodies can most easily digest and convert into energy. The 80-10-10 diet book I posted has some interested case studies which look at the people of our world who have the longest life spans. Guess what they eat!? :banana:




there's one problem with this theory.
the fruit we have around today was nowhere close to the fruit that existed millennium ago. all our fruit is "unnatural" in the sense that sweet, delicious, high sugar fruit is a product of selective farming since the invention of agriculture.

watch this video series for more info:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: lovecheese]
    #13154939 - 09/06/10 12:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Most humans eat FAR more meat than gorillas. The vast majority of their diet is fruit and plants. Same with Chimpanzees, who are the closest cousin to us. They are also about 5 times pound for pound stronger than humans.




they also have the intelligence of a 5yo human, humans by the way are in fact not gorillas and chimps, the point being that we evolved as did your diets, studies show that the meat consumption is at least in part responsible for our greater intelligence


 
Quote:

The homo sapien, originating from a tropical environment, evolved from and to eat a mostly fruit based diet - it is what our bodies can most easily digest and convert into energy.




4 million years of evolution in our diet think that doesnt affect the way we've evolved, think maybe we're still meant to be on that 80% fruit diet, explain why Homo neanderthalensis ate almost exclusively meat

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC16602/?tool=pmcentrez
Quote:

The isotope evidence overwhelmingly points to the Neanderthals behaving as top-level carnivores, obtaining almost all of their dietary protein from animal sources.





Quote:

The 80-10-10 diet book I posted has some interested case studies which look at the people of our world who have the longest life spans. Guess what they eat!? :banana:





you may want to check that lifespan claim, shown by country, which ones are dominantly vegetarian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy




Homo neanderthalensis ate almost exclusively meat because he did not live in environments prone to tropical fruit. I really don't see the connection between intelligence and how sustenance contributes to bodily health - You see very few overweight primates. In fact, most of the are in ideal shape. 4 million years of evolution aside, we are still physiologically nearly identical to the first humans (other than growing in size) - who evolved from and to eat fruit.

I'm not talking about case studies of countries (which obviously have other contributing factors other than what is ate, i.e healthcare). I'm talking about studies that have been done on indigenous tribes, whose diet was the main contribution to life expectancy. I'll look up the page in the book I posted when I have more time... 

Quote:

chairlock3d said:
there's one problem with this theory.
the fruit we have around today was nowhere close to the fruit that existed millennium ago. all our fruit is "unnatural" in the sense that sweet, delicious, high sugar fruit is a product of selective farming since the invention of agriculture.





Tropical fruit, that is fruit indigenous to the tropics, is what I am saying humans are meant to eat. Every food you eat gets converted to sugar eventually - sugar is what our body uses for energy. There are bad sugars and good sugars. The micronutrients, nutrients and good sugars found in tropical fruit is idea for our human bodies. Fruit has special chemicals in it which allow this sugar to be released over prolonged periods of times (giving you sustained energy) as opposed to the sugars you find in your sweet snacks and soda.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13160779 - 09/07/10 04:52 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Homo neanderthalensis ate almost exclusively meat because he did not live in environments prone to tropical fruit. I really don't see the connection between intelligence and how sustenance contributes to bodily health - You see very few overweight primates.




there was little tropical fruit anywhere in the world as most of what we
know as edible only came about in the last 12,000 years, with the birth
of agriculture, in fact the video that chairlock3d posted is quite
interesting because it covers this very topic

human intelligence and meat go hand in hand
http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s6549.html

why is it that every herbivorous gorilla I see has a pot belly, in fact
why do most primates have big bellies including the simians, maybe the
distended belly is from malnutrition like with those poor starving kids
all over the world, and if that's the case, those malnourished gorillas
are a prime example of why we should eat meat...



Quote:

4 million years of evolution aside, we are still physiologically nearly identical to the first humans (other than growing in size) - who evolved from and to eat fruit


.


we really should define 'first humans', if we take it back to 4 million years, then of course we were so very much the same, just like gorillas




so very few physiological changes in 4 million years





Quote:


Tropical fruit, that is fruit indigenous to the tropics, is what I am saying humans are meant to eat.




I'm saying you're wrong, the earliest of human ancestors were determined to be omnivorous

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/326/5949/69/DC2


Quote:

The micronutrients, nutrients and good sugars found in tropical fruit is idea for our human bodies.




really, what about complete proteins, what about fats which humans require to live healthy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHeffy
BrauMeister
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: lovecheese]
    #13161062 - 09/07/10 05:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

chairlock3d said:
Quote:

Heffy said:
Quote:

fugazi32 said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:Our species was already making fire and using tools when it first evolved.  Thus, our bodies are well-adapted to the consumption of cooked food.




Hmmm....is that so??! Then why do the tribes that still eat raw/whole foods live longer and have no cancer rates or heart disease? :eek:

Read: Raw Perfection - it might clear things up some what... :wink:





Raw food diets are total BS. I'm not going to read a stupid book espousing raw food diets when I know enough about them already to know that they offer no real health benefits over a well balanced diet that includes cooked foods.

Most of the outrageous claims made by the raw foodist(who clearly know nothing about proteins, enzymes, and carbohydrates) have been thoroughly debunked.

If you think that your "tribes" live so large with no fire or tools, I say go join them. At least it wold get this raw food pseudoscience tripe off the internet.



ok mr. king of knowledge, teach me.

and your statement REEKS of ignorance. in fact, it reminds me of this article http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-already-knows-everything-he-needs-to-know-abou,17990/
so you're either a troll or ignorant (and there is nothing wrong with ignorance if you seek to educate yourself)





What information have you provided me that I am ignoring?

I'm not going to buy and read a whole book, on a subject that I'm pretty much completely convinced is trash, just to prove you wrong and refute the ideas in it.

Have you given me any information that suggests a raw food diet is more healthy than a balanced, all inclusive diet?

Most raw foodies have a piss poor understanding of nutrition. Especially the interaction of enzymes seems to baffle them. I constantly hear raw foodies saying the most absurd things about enzymes.

I am currently pursuing a career in brewing chemistry, so enzymes, carbohydrates, proteins, amino acids, etc, are things I am studying in some depth. Most of the things I hear raw foodies saying about nutrition demonstrate a complete lack of understanding.

Prove me wrong.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13161337 - 09/07/10 06:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I agree fats and proteins are necessary, just not in the magnitude found in the average American diet. It is called the 80-10-10 diet because it recommends a caloric intake consisting of about 10% fats and 10% protein as well. 

By first human, I meant strictly homo sapien. I understand its estimated they came about only about 1 million years ago? So in the past 1 million years the physiological changes haven't been too profound. And humans didn't start farming in the agricultural sense until about a small fraction of that time. 

To be honest, I don't really watch you tube videos that people post. I find them to be a slow and often inaccurate source of information. What exactly is the video proposing - that all tropical fruit has only evolved recently? I'm no expert on evolution, but I was under the impression most of the fruit and plants on our planet has been here for a long time. Humans are essentially the newest thing walking on Earth, no?

I don't think you can equate the pronounced stomach of the gorilla with that of a malnutritioned child. The gorilla, or chimpanzee for example, is about 5 times pound for pound stronger than a human being. Pot belly or not, they are in peak physical shape being able to scale trees and fight off enemies. Their muscles are not degenerating like a child facing malnutrition.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13162319 - 09/07/10 09:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:Most humans eat FAR more meat than gorillas. The vast majority of their diet is fruit and plants. Same with Chimpanzees, who are the closest cousin to us. They are also about 5 times pound for pound stronger than humans. The homo sapien, originating from a tropical environment, evolved from and to eat a mostly fruit based diet - it is what our bodies can most easily digest and convert into energy. The 80-10-10 diet book I posted has some interested case studies which look at the people of our world who have the longest life spans. Guess what they eat!? :banana:



Of course humans eat far more meat than gorillas.  Gorillas spend hours and hours eating plants and it takes a very large amount of energy just to chew and process all that vegetation. Who cares if gorillas are 5 times stronger pound per pound when compared to humans. I am incredibly more intelligent than a gorilla. I can fashion tools with my opposable thumbs, sharpen sticks, and throw it at high speeds with my evolved shoulder and long arms. We eat meat because of the 2,000,000+ years of eating meat, we have no need for a large vegetation processing gut. With these extra calories our brains grew larger and instead of having to gnaw the rinds off fruits and vegetables, there were tools fashioned to process food, making it easier to consume. Which is why our jaws got smaller.  100 grams of raw beef contains more than three times as many calories as 100 grams of pineapple(Source). I'm just eating more efficiently.


Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:Homo neanderthalensis ate almost exclusively meat because he did not live in environments prone to tropical fruit. I really don't see the connection between intelligence and how sustenance contributes to bodily health - You see very few overweight primates.



Let me explain it to you then. The brain in an average human is about 2% of total body weight, however the brain uses about 25% of the body's oxygen and energy(calories). Honestly, I'm not sure if I could survive on plants alone. The total weight of food that I would need to consume is more than what my digestive tract has been evolved to handle.

As far as these "fit" primates?  Where are you seeing these primates at?  In the jungle or rain forest where they spent most of their day searching for food?  How about the zoo?  Those animals in the zoo have their diet monitored and their food weighed. If someone was monitoring and weighing all the food that everyone ate, no one would be obese.


Edited by daussaulit (09/07/10 09:40 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: daussaulit]
    #13162391 - 09/07/10 09:39 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You should check out the amount of fat in 100 grams of raw beef as opposed to that in tropical fruit. If you think efficiency is based on mere calories to mass ratio, we should simply eat a cup of olive oil a day. :lol: Fruit is actually more efficient considering it is raw energy for the body (the body does not need to break it down). A person eating a 2000 calorie a day diet would only need to eat about 20 bananas a day to sustain themself. A larger weight training person like myself needs to eat about double that, which isn't unreasonable in my 5-6 meals daily - I eat about 2500 calories of fruit each day and supplement my the other 1000 calories or so with meat and other foods. Animals in the wild, whose diet is not monitored, are more fit than the animals being fed by humans in the zoo. I'd reckon this is because they get much more exercise (which people in our country also lack).


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelovecheese
observer
Male


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 682
Loc: n. illinois
Last seen: 8 months, 23 hours
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy]
    #13163480 - 09/08/10 02:16 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Heffy said:
What information have you provided me that I am ignoring?

I'm not going to buy and read a whole book, on a subject that I'm pretty much completely convinced is trash, just to prove you wrong and refute the ideas in it.

Have you given me any information that suggests a raw food diet is more healthy than a balanced, all inclusive diet?

Most raw foodies have a piss poor understanding of nutrition. Especially the interaction of enzymes seems to baffle them. I constantly hear raw foodies saying the most absurd things about enzymes.

I am currently pursuing a career in brewing chemistry, so enzymes, carbohydrates, proteins, amino acids, etc, are things I am studying in some depth. Most of the things I hear raw foodies saying about nutrition demonstrate a complete lack of understanding.

Prove me wrong.



Care to explain? What are these certain raw foodies saying about nutrition?

Also: I wasn't saying you're ignoring any information i had given you i just  found what you said to be ignorant.
"Raw food diets are total BS. I'm not going to read a stupid book espousing raw food diets when I know enough about them already to know that they offer no real health benefits over a well balanced diet that includes cooked foods.

Most of the outrageous claims made by the raw foodist(who clearly know nothing about proteins, enzymes, and carbohydrates) have been thoroughly debunked."
You attacked a movement because you said you already know enough about them, but what is it that you know that is causing you to attack the lifestyle?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13163840 - 09/08/10 06:56 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

those tropical fruits

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-History-And-Evolution-Of-Banana-Hybrids&id=344037

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080316064815AAsL2nA


everything we eat we have tampered with to make it more appealing, to
increase the sugar content, mankind didnt go from eating mostly meat as
neanderthal to reverting back to eating plants just because we became
'human'

there's nothing that suggests that early man was anything more than the
hunter/gatherer he's been for 4 million years, as our brains increased
in size so did our tool making abilities, those tools allows us to more
efficiently kill and process animals, you dont need a bigger brain to
track down and kill a fruit


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13164264 - 09/08/10 09:33 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

So the sweet variety of bananas is the result of a more recent genetic mutation. :shrug: Are you saying this is the case for all tropical fruits? Also what's with the articles claim that American's eat 25 pounds of fruit each day? It makes me question the whole credibility of the article. 

everything we eat we have tampered with to make it more appealing, to
increase the sugar content


For the most part. We tamper with our meats too. Still, a banana with more sugar does not take away the fact it is a banana, it is just a more useful banana. Just like a cow given hormones to produce more milk. You simply need to eat less of the fruit for the same nutritional value.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelovecheese
observer
Male


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 682
Loc: n. illinois
Last seen: 8 months, 23 hours
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13165043 - 09/08/10 01:08 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
So the sweet variety of bananas is the result of a more recent genetic mutation. :shrug: Are you saying this is the case for all tropical fruits? Also what's with the articles claim that American's eat 25 pounds of fruit each day? It makes me question the whole credibility of the article. 

everything we eat we have tampered with to make it more appealing, to
increase the sugar content


For the most part. We tamper with our meats too. Still, a banana with more sugar does not take away the fact it is a banana, it is just a more useful banana. Just like a cow given hormones to produce more milk. You simply need to eat less of the fruit for the same nutritional value.



the point he's trying to make is that most fruit we know of today came from an inedible plant of long ago and was only edible till recently.
therefore we have never been exposed to this much sugar. and it's known that fruitarian diets such as the 80/10/10, while good for temporary cleansing, can cause a lot of digestive, and hormonal problems in the long run.

30bananasaday is basically a fruitarian community site that preaches by the 80/10/10 diet and their forums are flooded with people having problems, but everyone insists that the symptoms they are having is from the detoxing effect of such a high fruit diet.

yes, we tamper with our meats as well. thats why a lot of raw foodists are starting to see the light with not just raw foods, but the benefits of WILD food as well (fish, wild animals, free range domesticated animals, raw living spring water with high microscopic algae content).


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: lovecheese]
    #13165451 - 09/08/10 02:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think the claim that all sugary tropical fruits have only came about recently is simply not true. Please provide evidence for this other than one YouTube video.

while good for temporary cleansing, can cause a lot of digestive, and hormonal problems in the long run

Once again, do you have any proof of this? I've been eating a minimum of 2000 calories of fruit per day (or at least 5 days a week) for the past two months and I feel the best I ever did in my life. :shrug: It is true that you go through a temporary period where you body cleanses out all of the toxins and whatever else that has accumulated from eating cooked foods for years, but this went away for myself and my brother after the first week.

yes, we tamper with our meats as well. thats why a lot of raw foodists are starting to see the light with not just raw foods, but the benefits of WILD food as well (fish, wild animals, free range domesticated animals, raw living spring water with high microscopic algae content).

I agree a lot of raw foodists are way off the mark on what eating healthy is all about. Some of them actually take in a higher percentage of fat than people eating cooked foods. Dr. Graham discusses this in his book. Wild food is all great and dandy, but don't kid yourself by thinking that more than a mere fraction of consumed meats is free range. Part of the reason I eat less meat is a moral issue.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13166966 - 09/08/10 06:32 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I've been eating a minimum of 2000 calories of fruit per day (or at least 5 days a week) for the past two months and I feel the best I ever did in my life.





let us know at the 6mos and 1yr mark


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13166981 - 09/08/10 06:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Also what's with the articles claim that American's eat 25 pounds of fruit each day?





it's all you raw food/fruit people, you have to eat 80x as much to stay healthy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13167185 - 09/08/10 07:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I know a handful of people who have been doing it successfully for over a year. They don't have "hormonal problems" and are actually the healthiest people I know.

So this article makes the claim that on average Americans eat 25 pounds of fruit each day. Your saying raw fooders are throwing off the numbers... How much do you think they are eating then - 100 pounds of fruit a day? Don't you see anything wrong with these numbers? :strokebeard:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13167194 - 09/08/10 07:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

btw these grapes are delicious :crazy2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13167302 - 09/08/10 07:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
So this article makes the claim that on average Americans eat 25 pounds of fruit each day.





I have no clue where they come up with that number, probably supposed to say 25lbs/yr

I ate almost exclusively meat for nearly 20 years, I didnt start having
problems until several months after I started eating plant materials as a
'filler', I also put on weight when my diet changed, oddly, when I started
eating mostly meat, I lost weight, stayed fit and never felt healthier


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13168273 - 09/08/10 10:44 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Perhaps different things work for different people. What type and how much meat do you eat with an almost-exclusively meat diet? What type of vegetation were you eating and what types of problems occurred?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledaussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13168536 - 09/09/10 12:07 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:while good for temporary cleansing, can cause a lot of digestive, and hormonal problems in the long run

Once again, do you have any proof of this? I've been eating a minimum of 2000 calories of fruit per day (or at least 5 days a week) for the past two months and I feel the best I ever did in my life. :shrug: It is true that you go through a temporary period where you body cleanses out all of the toxins and whatever else that has accumulated from eating cooked foods for years, but this went away for myself and my brother after the first week.



There are so few studies on this(but even fewer, if any at all that have been published in reputable medical journals showing the long term benefits of a raw food diet), but this one is commonly cited.
Consequences of a Long-Term Raw Food Diet on Body Weight and Menstruation
I should see if I can get the full article from my university library database, but just reading the abstract:
Over five hundred people were tracked for an average of 3.7 years. Many were malnourished, underweight, and suffered from chronic energy deficiency(although not mentioned in the abstract, that result has been cited by many doctors in numerous publications, again, you can find one example where I had referenced this in a previous post).

The author is a research scientist, Dr. Corinna Koebnick. She's published works while working with the Institute of Nutritional Science at the University of Giessen, German Institute of Human Nutrition Potsdam-Rehbrücke, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at University of Erlangen-Nuremberg, Department of Preventive Medicine - Keck School of Medicine at University of Southern California, Department of Health and Human Services - Division of Cancer Epidemiology and Genetics at the National Institutes Health, and Department of Research and Evaluation - Kaiser Permanente Southern California just to name a few.

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:By first human, I meant strictly homo sapien. I understand its estimated they came about only about 1 million years ago? So in the past 1 million years the physiological changes haven't been too profound. And humans didn't start farming in the agricultural sense until about a small fraction of that time.



Agriculture is unrelated to cooking.  Evidence of cooking dates back over 2 million years.  Humans have evolved to eat cooked foods as part of their diet. Sharp teeth and a mouth full of vegetation grinding molars have disappeared.  Much like northern Europeans have evolved to consume dairy products. The history of consuming milk from other animals spans over 8,000 years, and since that time, certain part of the human population have evolved to maintain lactase production throughout their entire lives, and even today, that trait is expanding generation after generation. If humans aren't suppose to eat dairy products, then why have they evolved the ability to process dairy products?

Food as we know it has radically changed within the last few hundred years. No doubt a few thousand years from now humans will have evolved to thrive on the food we have today.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelovecheese
observer
Male


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 682
Loc: n. illinois
Last seen: 8 months, 23 hours
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13168667 - 09/09/10 01:04 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think the claim that all sugary tropical fruits have only came about recently is simply not true. Please provide evidence for this other than one YouTube video.

while good for temporary cleansing, can cause a lot of digestive, and hormonal problems in the long run

Once again, do you have any proof of this? I've been eating a minimum of 2000 calories of fruit per day (or at least 5 days a week) for the past two months and I feel the best I ever did in my life. :shrug: It is true that you go through a temporary period where you body cleanses out all of the toxins and whatever else that has accumulated from eating cooked foods for years, but this went away for myself and my brother after the first week.

yes, we tamper with our meats as well. thats why a lot of raw foodists are starting to see the light with not just raw foods, but the benefits of WILD food as well (fish, wild animals, free range domesticated animals, raw living spring water with high microscopic algae content).

I agree a lot of raw foodists are way off the mark on what eating healthy is all about. Some of them actually take in a higher percentage of fat than people eating cooked foods. Dr. Graham discusses this in his book. Wild food is all great and dandy, but don't kid yourself by thinking that more than a mere fraction of consumed meats is free range. Part of the reason I eat less meat is a moral issue.




are you eating strictly fruit? or just getting most of your calories from fruit? big difference between the two that can cause problems.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13169007 - 09/09/10 05:47 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Perhaps different things work for different people. What type and how much meat do you eat with an almost-exclusively meat diet? What type of vegetation were you eating and what types of problems occurred?




probably 70% beef, 20% pork, 5% wild game and a little chicken,
the fruits and veggies include everything available locally


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13169020 - 09/09/10 06:07 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

> I know a handful of people who have been doing it successfully for over a year. They don't have "hormonal problems" and are actually the healthiest people I know.

Speaking from experience, it is very difficult to eat healthy on a raw diet.  It can certainly be done, but you really have to study nutrition and know what the various foods you eat provide, or more importantly, lack.  When done properly, a raw (or vegan) diet can be very healthy.  Unfortunately, the majority of people that go down this road believe it to be a free ride to better health and end up malnourished leading to health problems that do not show up until years later after the damage has already been done.

> I think the claim that all sugary tropical fruits have only came about recently is simply not true.

I don't have my nutritional references handy, but the claim is mostly correct.  High fructose (monosaccharide) diets (>10% fructose) are only a few hundred years old, if that.  They are also pretty hard on the body as humans have not adapted to efficiently digest large amounts of monosaccharides.  Small amounts are not bad and can even aid in the digestion of glucose.  Large amounts overwhelm the liver and end up elevating triglycerides levels.  High levels of triglycerides lead to heart disease, obesity (as the "I'm full" signals are suppressed), and insulin resistance leading to type-2 diabetes (this last one is not proven and still being researched, but looking to be more likely in the latest studies).

Some fruit is good.  Too much fruit is bad.  Food with a lot of fructose (such as high fructose corn syrup) is really bad.  As always, everything in moderation.

> So this article makes the claim that on average Americans eat 25 pounds of fruit each day.

Perhaps they meant the sugar (fructose) content of 25 pounds of fruit each day?  With the amount of high fructose corn syrup in food, I can see this as being true.  Donno, poor wording, regardless.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Seuss]
    #13169169 - 09/09/10 07:43 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

chairlock3d said:
are you eating strictly fruit? or just getting most of your calories from fruit? big difference between the two that can cause problems.




About 2000-2500 of my 3500-4000 daily calories come from fruit.


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Perhaps different things work for different people. What type and how much meat do you eat with an almost-exclusively meat diet? What type of vegetation were you eating and what types of problems occurred?




probably 70% beef, 20% pork, 5% wild game and a little chicken,
the fruits and veggies include everything available locally




And about the 2000 calorie a day average?


Quote:

Seuss said:
Speaking from experience, it is very difficult to eat healthy on a raw diet.  It can certainly be done, but you really have to study nutrition and know what the various foods you eat provide, or more importantly, lack.  When done properly, a raw (or vegan) diet can be very healthy.  Unfortunately, the majority of people that go down this road believe it to be a free ride to better health and end up malnourished leading to health problems that do not show up until years later after the damage has already been done.




I completely agree and have stressed this point throughout this conversation. Raw foods such as coconut, avocado and nuts are so high in fat that they become the unhealthy "comfort food" of raw fooders. This is just one pitfall. The 80-10-10 book is so great because it essentially tears apart the average raw food diet and shows the superiority of a more frugavore-orientated diet.

Quote:

Seuss said:
I don't have my nutritional references handy, but the claim is mostly correct.  High fructose (monosaccharide) diets (>10% fructose) are only a few hundred years old, if that.  They are also pretty hard on the body as humans have not adapted to efficiently digest large amounts of monosaccharides.  Small amounts are not bad and can even aid in the digestion of glucose.  Large amounts overwhelm the liver and end up elevating triglycerides levels.  High levels of triglycerides lead to heart disease, obesity (as the "I'm full" signals are suppressed), and insulin resistance leading to type-2 diabetes (this last one is not proven and still being researched, but looking to be more likely in the latest studies).



I agree large doses of sugar is harmful to the body. However, fruit has special enzymes (or some type of chemicals) which allows its sugar content to be released over an extended period of time. Fruit - most fruits release their sugar relatively slowly into the bloodstream, this means that they are less likely to disrupt the blood sugar balance.  However, the sugars in fruit juice are released more quickly as are the concentrated forms of fruit sugars such as those in dried fruits, so they do have the potential to impact blood sugar levels. This is why it is important to eat whole fruits, not simply fruit juice or other processed fruits.

Quote:

Seuss said:
Some fruit is good.  Too much fruit is bad.  Food with a lot of fructose (such as high fructose corn syrup) is really bad.  As always, everything in moderation.




Like I just said, it's a fallacy to equate high fructose corn syrup with the sugar found in fruit. HFCS is going to be absorbed into your body very quickly, while the latter will keep you sustained for many hours.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChespirito
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13169182 - 09/09/10 07:48 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Actually fructose is in general not as good for you as glucose. 


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8989331
"Excess fruit juice consumption by preschool-aged children is associated with short stature and obesity."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose#Health_effects

"Excess fructose consumption has been hypothesized to be a cause of insulin resistance, obesity,[37] elevated LDL cholesterol and triglycerides, leading to metabolic syndrome[38]. Fructose consumption has been shown to be correlated with obesity,[39][40] especially central obesity which is thought to be the most dangerous kind of obesity. A study in mice showed that a high fructose intake increases adiposity.[41]

Although all simple sugars have nearly identical chemical formulae, each has distinct chemical properties. This can be illustrated with pure fructose. A journal article reports that, "...fructose given alone increased the blood glucose almost as much as a similar amount of glucose (78% of the glucose-alone area)".[42][43][44][44][45]

One study concluded that fructose "produced significantly higher fasting plasma triacylglycerol values than did the glucose diet in men" and "...if plasma triacylglycerols are a risk factor for cardiovascular disease, then diets high in fructose may be undesirable".[46] Bantle et al. "noted the same effects in a study of 14 healthy volunteers who sequentially ate a high-fructose diet and one almost devoid of the sugar."[47]"


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHeffy
BrauMeister
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Chespirito]
    #13169983 - 09/09/10 11:22 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


Care to explain? What are these certain raw foodies saying about nutrition?




Probably in this thread already...but. Mostly I see raw food proponents claiming:

That all enzymes become inactive at the same temperature.

That the nutritional value of all foods is reduced through cooking.

Among other things.

A good example is Cosmonaut eating 2000 calories of fruit per day. I can say pretty confidently that this is an unhealthy practice. Fruits contain large amounts of sugars, and should not be used as the cornerstone of a diet for numerous reasons. Diabetes, extreme weight loss, and and pancreatic problems are all potential side effects of a diet that contains too much fruit.

As previously mentioned in the thread I have a friend who nearly killed himself pursuing various raw food diets. I would strongly recommend anyone on a raw fruit diet seriously reconsider their eating habits.

I've posted this before, but it's the most solid diet plan I have ever seen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Healthy_eating_pyramid.jpg

I doubt anyone can detail a raw food diet for me that is healthier than that.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy]
    #13171165 - 09/09/10 03:44 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

> I doubt anyone can detail a raw food diet for me that is healthier than that.

I'm not a big raw food fan, but I don't care for the "healthy eating pyramid" either.  If you are consuming animal protein, such as outlined by the "healthy eating pyramid", then you need to add a temporal factor into your eating habits as well.  Animal proteins digest slower than vegetable proteins.  Casein, for example, takes a very long time to digest.  Because the human body has a limited capacity for protein uptake, some food items, such as dairy, can lock out other food items, such as vegetables.  Even then, most store bought animal products are very unhealthy; often high in nitrates, hormones, and antibiotics.  I'm not militant about not eating animal products, but my personal preference is to only eat animal products that I have raised or hunted.  Because I no longer live on a farm, other than occasional fresh fish, animal products are no longer a part of my diet.

While on the subject of nutrition two additional points.  Be very careful with caffeine.  It limits your ability to absorb several nutrients, including calcium.  Try not to drink caffeine with or immediately after a meal.  Give your body time to digest the nutrients first.  Also, with the advent of sun screen and the lack of sunlight most of us get, the majority of people (in the US) are vitamin-D deficient.  A lot of the research I have been reading is indicating that the recommended daily dosage of vitamin-D (400 IU over 2000 calories) is too low.  Several studies have concluded that 1000 IU (over 2000 calories) of vitamin-D is a more appropriate daily dosage.  If taking supplements, D3 is much easier for the body to absorb than D2.  The daily UL (upper intake level) for vitamin-D in adults is 100000 IU, which can result in toxicity after a few months.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Chespirito]
    #13172978 - 09/09/10 10:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
Actually fructose is in general not as good for you as glucose. 


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8989331
"Excess fruit juice consumption by preschool-aged children is associated with short stature and obesity."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose#Health_effects

"Excess fructose consumption has been hypothesized to be a cause of insulin resistance, obesity,[37] elevated LDL cholesterol and triglycerides, leading to metabolic syndrome[38]. Fructose consumption has been shown to be correlated with obesity,[39][40] especially central obesity which is thought to be the most dangerous kind of obesity. A study in mice showed that a high fructose intake increases adiposity.[41]

Although all simple sugars have nearly identical chemical formulae, each has distinct chemical properties. This can be illustrated with pure fructose. A journal article reports that, "...fructose given alone increased the blood glucose almost as much as a similar amount of glucose (78% of the glucose-alone area)".[42][43][44][44][45]

One study concluded that fructose "produced significantly higher fasting plasma triacylglycerol values than did the glucose diet in men" and "...if plasma triacylglycerols are a risk factor for cardiovascular disease, then diets high in fructose may be undesirable".[46] Bantle et al. "noted the same effects in a study of 14 healthy volunteers who sequentially ate a high-fructose diet and one almost devoid of the sugar."[47]"




These studies were not done with whole fruits. See my above posts for why whole fruits are different from their isolated sugars.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13173898 - 09/10/10 06:00 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

> These studies were not done with whole fruits. See my above posts for why whole fruits are different from their isolated sugars.

I would rather read studies that show your claim rather than you posts.  :smile:

It is also a mistake to assume that all fruits have the same fructose content, only have fructose and no other sugars, and digest at the same rate.

I live on an island in the tropics where we have a lot of fresh fruit growing nearly year round.  The fruit available changes with the season, but it seems that there is always some type of fruit in season.  Because of this, fruit is a large part of our local diet.  We also have a tremendously high diabetes rate.  As far as I know, there have been no studies done to rule out genetics or other factors (rum).  However, I would be surprised to find that the high fruit diet here does not contribute to the high diabetes rates in the population.  (Our fruits are mostly papaya, avocado, banana, coconut, mango, pomegranate, passion fruit, sugar apples, soursop, etc.)


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13192337 - 09/14/10 12:00 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Perhaps different things work for different people. What type and how much meat do you eat with an almost-exclusively meat diet? What type of vegetation were you eating and what types of problems occurred?




probably 70% beef, 20% pork, 5% wild game and a little chicken,
the fruits and veggies include everything available locally




And about the 2000 calorie a day average?




I dont know dick about calorie counting, I eat what I want when ever I get hungry


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13195752 - 09/14/10 06:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

So your the average American :lol:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChespirito
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13195772 - 09/14/10 06:26 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
So your the average human*




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Chespirito]
    #13195779 - 09/14/10 06:27 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

That's true, but most humans don't have the opportunity to overeat.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChespirito
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13195786 - 09/14/10 06:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yea fair enough.  But I see nothing wrong with eating if hungry, in fact that makes the most sense to me.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Chespirito]
    #13195807 - 09/14/10 06:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
So you're* the average human*







Ahem...  :andyistic:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Silversoul]
    #13195833 - 09/14/10 06:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
Yea fair enough.  But I see nothing wrong with eating if hungry, in fact that makes the most sense to me.




Yea, me neither. I suppose the problem is eating too fast (or the wrong type of stuff) so your body doesn't know when your full. Highly fatty foods have so many calories in such small space for example.

Quote:

Silversoul said:
:andyistic:




:grammarnazi: :tongue2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChespirito
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Silversoul]
    #13195838 - 09/14/10 06:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Well I just wanted to correct the substantive issues


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRaw
Muslim
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 1,419
Loc: USA West Coast Flag
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Chespirito]
    #13196236 - 09/14/10 07:43 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

EAT MUSHROOMS 100% RAW, fresh, dried, or in T.

-edit-  couldn't resist chiming in RAW!
Shameless self-promotion I know.


--------------------


Edited by Raw (09/14/10 07:54 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13197303 - 09/14/10 11:56 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
That's true, but most humans don't have the opportunity to overeat.





why do you assume that eating when hungry means over eating, I frequently
only eat once a day, twice a day tops and the meals are small, why do you
assume the remainder of the world doesnt have access to enough food to
over eat, the whole world isnt suffering a famine


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13200630 - 09/15/10 05:54 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

2 billion people are living on less than a dollar a day...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13200947 - 09/15/10 07:04 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

hundreds of millions of people are living on no money each day and doing so quite nicely

we cant judge the world by US wages, some places that dollar a day is a decent income


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13200964 - 09/15/10 07:08 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

A dollar a day is not decent income. It is enough income to survive. Look at the places of the world where the average income is ~365 dollars a year. They are plagued with poverty and starvation. 

hundreds of millions of people are living on no money each day and doing so quite nicely

They still have assets (i.e land for farming) worth more money than the 2 billion people I'm talking about would dare to dream of.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRaw
Muslim
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 1,419
Loc: USA West Coast Flag
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13201000 - 09/15/10 07:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

A dollar a day is a lot of money actually.  It can go a long way even here.  22 cents for a pound of wheat.  Or 2.99 for a loaf of bread?

Rent is free overseas if you live in a shanty or farm shack or above a manufacturing plant.

Shelter expenses in the US start from 400$ / mo / person to 10,000 and up... /mo / person.

You got to keep things in perspective...

It seems we spend more on taxes and housing than we do on food here... Where if you are dirt poor you spend on food 90-95% and just be.

There is no doubt an obesity epidemic in the US.

A lot of it has to do with the environment of food and people using food as entertainment.

I applaud Prisoner #1 for his moderation.  A lot of people including myself can easily get carried away and eat to try and reduce stress or avoid problems just like any other addiction.  We live in a place where that is an easy addiction to fall into.  Where in other places it isn't necessarily an available escape due to the cost involved.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13201331 - 09/15/10 08:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
A dollar a day is not decent income. It is enough income to survive. Look at the places of the world where the average income is ~365 dollars a year. They are plagued with poverty and starvation. 




in Burundi the average wage is $80/yr, in Cuba it's $200/yr and I hear
life there is great according to Micheal Moore, Kyrgyzstan $250/yr Georgia is $270/yr

Tblisi is such a shithole



but these countries are not other countries, these are normal wages
there, obviously enough to support a family on in these nations, how can
you say it's poverty, simply because their paycheck doesnt match yours?

Quote:

hundreds of millions of people are living on no money each day and doing so quite nicely

They still have assets (i.e land for farming) worth more money than the 2 billion people I'm talking about would dare to dream of.




how do you know those 2 billion dont have land for farming, dont they
have dirt under their feet, do they have mo means of acquiring food
other than UN Aid shipments?

I have an idea, lets stop feeding them, they'll die off and we wont have
to worry about the poor any longer, it's not like I care especially when
people that dont make any money can afford a trip to europe to look for work


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Raw]
    #13201422 - 09/15/10 08:43 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Raw said:
Rent is free overseas if you live in a shanty or farm shack or above a manufacturing plant.





in some areas homes are passed through generations of family, again pretty
much rent free, many have no electricity or running water, I knew places
like that here in the US just 30 years ago, I used to stay over at some
friends house and they had no bathroom, their kitchen opened onto a porch
where their water was drawn from a well... and there's still places like
that here, some people choose to live that way and are happy with it

in still many other areas, there's no ownership or rental of homes, it's
communal living, I mean how much could these folks possibly be making
each year? they dont look like they're starving



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13201479 - 09/15/10 08:55 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

With every picture of a nice city there is a slum within a few miles. I spent a semester at the UN, spent time with the UNDP, and let me tell you there is a thing called variation in income. A small elite can offset those average wages. There are people starving all over the world, in every country. Have you ever seen pictures of the coal mining areas in the Appalachian mountains, here in the U.S? Take a look at Africa. My point still stands that a large portion of the world does not have the opportunity to gorge themselves with food.

I have an idea, lets stop feeding them, they'll die off and we wont have
to worry about the poor any longer


I think that's pretty arrogant coming from someone who was born into one of the wealthiest and educated countries in the world...

Here is another picture of Tbilisi:



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13201609 - 09/15/10 09:20 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
With every picture of a nice city there is a slum within a few miles.




well yeah, even in the wealthiest nations in the world there's poverty
but why should I care about whether 2 billion people are starving in the
world, I didnt take them to raise and there's not a damn thing I could
do about it even if I was so inclined

why do you think many of these people live in poverty? if you live in a
desert where no food grows why not move from the desert, if you decide
not to move then why should I care of you starve, if you receive UN aid
in the form of grains to plant in your region, why should I give a shit
if you die from starvation later because you ate the grain today instead
of planting them


Quote:

There are people starving all over the world, in every country. Have you ever seen pictures of the coal mining areas in the Appalachian mountains, here in the U.S? Take a look at Africa. My point still stands that a large portion of the world does not have the opportunity to gorge themselves with food.




I have family in the Appalachians, have you ever been to an indian
reservation, not one of these casino towns but on a reservation, like
many other nations some are forced into poverty by their own government,
what's the solution, send aid that will be seized by that government and
never reach the people... the UN is good at feeding governments

Quote:

I have an idea, lets stop feeding them, they'll die off and we wont have
to worry about the poor any longer


I think that's pretty arrogant coming from someone who was born into one of the wealthiest and educated countries in the world...




I work for what I have, I work to feed my family, last year my earnings
were under $4000, this year it'll be less than $2000 in a nation where
the average is 40 times that and yet I still make sure my family is
still fed without any form of government assistance... why? because I
wouldnt qualify for something I've paid into for years


here's a picture in the US, they need my help more than someone 7000
miles away, I dont need to donate money to a program that sucks 95% of
that money in managing it and of the 5% that is used in assistance, 75%
of that never gets to where it's going. lot those in zimbabwe help those
in zimbabwe, let them oust Mugabe and invite those that had the capital,
and the assets and ability to feed the nation do what they did best,
after all, it wasnt poverty that put many of these nations where they
are, it was corrupt government that ushered in the poverty, maybe
instead of food we should be sending bullets so they can fight to free
themselves from those that put them there



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13201648 - 09/15/10 09:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with you man, the situation is fucked up. I'm not advocating donating money, just trying to point out people are capable of being victims of their environment. I think we can solve the poverty problem. As of now, it simply isn't in the interest of the world elite, the mass ego, the machine - whatever you want to call it. I think it starts when we stop buying useless commodities. I believe these economic woes we are experiencing as a world are a blessing in disguise. When the machines comes grinding to a halt it will give us a chance to look around and say, "Hey, what do we actually need to sustainably survive?" This may sound optimistic, but hey, optimism is all we have, aye?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13260565 - 09/28/10 05:44 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/t-colin-campbell/low-fat-diets-are-grossly_b_740543.html

Quote:

For more than two decades, many commentators have discussed and cussed so-called low-fat diets and gotten away with talking nonsense. It is time to look at some facts.

Virtually all of these discussions are based on recommendations of reports of the National Academy of Sciences during the 1980s when the initial suggestion was made to reduce total dietary fat to 30 percent (from the average of 35-37 percent of calories) -- I know because I co-authored the first of these reports on diet and cancer in 1982. Then, during the next decade or so, this 30 percent benchmark became the definition of a low fat diet. A myth was born because this diet did not lead to obesity, as claimed.

During the next 10 years when this low fat myth was growing, average percent dietary fat barely changed -- maybe decreasing a couple percentage points to about 33 percent, at best. In reality, the amount of fat consumed INCREASED because total calorie consumption also increased. Furthermore, during this same period of low fat mythology (1980s-1990s), obesity incidence increased.

Now, enter Robert Atkins and other writers who argued that obesity was increasing because of our switch to low fat diets. By going low fat -- so the mythical story went -- we were consuming more carbohydrate, an energy source from plant-based foods. This was a serious misrepresentation of the facts.

By falsely blaming low fat, 'high carb' diets for the obesity crisis, these writers were then free to promote the opposite: high fat, low 'carb', high cholesterol and high protein diets rich in animal-based foods, a so-called low 'carb' diet. During the initial discussions of this 'low carb' diet, no distinction was made between the refined carbohydrates (sugar and white flour as commonly present in processed foods) and the natural carbohydrates almost exclusively present in plant-based foods.

Later, some attention was given to refined carbohydrates (sugar, white flour) as a contributor to obesity, but by then the damage due to this obfuscation had been done. 'Carbs' were out, protein and fat were in. By initially demonizing 'carbs' and so-called 'low fat' diets and emphasizing increased protein and fat consumption, the intended path was clear: consume a diet rich in animal-based foods instead of a diet rich in plant-based foods.

Obesity continues to climb but not because of a switch to a plant-foods rich diet naturally low in fat and high in carbohydrate (TOTAL carbohydrate, that is). Rather, obesity increases as physical activity decreases and as sugary, fatty, salty processed food consumption increases.

More serious, however, is the effect that this mythology has had on suppressing information on the extraordinary health value of diets that are truly low in fat (10-12 percent). I am referring to a whole foods, plant-based diet that avoids added fat and processed and animal-based foods. This diet contains about 10-12 percent fat, sometimes pejoratively referred to as "extremely low fat". Call it what you will, but this diet (also low in total protein, about 8-10 percent) produces, by comparison, "extremely low" incidences of sickness and disease. In fact, it now has been shown not just to prevent these illnesses but to treat them. Importantly, this dietary lifestyle cannot be dismissed by the mythological argument that so-called low fat diets have been proven to be questionable.

Professional medical researchers and practitioners also repeat this same mantra as if it is real. It has been shown for example in the very large Nurses' Health Study at Harvard over an observation period of at least 14 years that reducing dietary fat from about 50 percent to about 25 percent of total calories has no association with breast cancer rates. Based on this and related studies, the sole manipulation of fat within this range does little or nothing when the diet still contains such high proportions of animal based and processed foods. Total protein remains very high throughout this range and worse, the proportion of protein from animal-based sources, already high when fat is high, if anything, increases even more when fat is independently decreased.

It is time that we seriously consider the health benefits of a whole food, plant based diet, which is naturally low in total fat, animal-based protein, and refined carbohydrates but rich in antioxidants and complex carbohydrates. The health benefits that are now being reported for this dietary lifestyle are unmatched in scope and magnitude of effect. It is time to discard the gibberish about low fat diets being responsible for the obesity epidemic. This demonizing of low fat diets does not apply to whole food plant-based diets, even lower in fat, because this dietary lifestyle really works. Just try it, but stay with it long enough to allow your body to overcome your taste preferences for fat that arise from its addictive nature.




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13260874 - 09/28/10 06:43 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

you should read the Kroeker analysis of T. Colin Campbell's work, The China Study

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study#Criticisms


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13260930 - 09/28/10 06:51 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I read it, bit it's only two lines on wikipedia. Do you have any other sources I could go though? Is he using the same dataset? As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, a vegan diet does not imply a healthy diet, nor does an carnivorous diet imply an unhealthy diet. But this does not mean that they can be in general otherwise.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13260946 - 09/28/10 06:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13261137 - 09/28/10 07:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Actually I did read through the other stuff. Most of them just come out and call the author a "crusader" to get people to eat vegan without any conclusive data of their own - What are their motives? Is an Amazon message board really the best you have? How do I know this random guy is not skewing data for his own agenda? I'm taking a look at the variables and it really doesn't make any sense to me.

Takes these lines for example:
-46.6 81 276 D050 REDMEAT diet survey RED MEAT (pork, beef, mutton) INTAKE (g/d
-40.7 89 263 D037 RICE diet survey RICE INTAKE (g/day/reference man, air-dry
-38.0 84 237 D011 TOTCAROT diet survey TOTAL CAROTENOID INTAKE (retinol equivale
-36.0 84 277 D051 POULTRY diet survey POULTRY INTAKE (g/day/reference man, as-c

Does this suggest that red meat is healthier than rice, which is healthier than carrots and poultry? How is any of this conclusive?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13263311 - 09/29/10 08:00 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMisterMuscaria
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 27,646
Loc: Flag
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy]
    #13263330 - 09/29/10 08:09 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I went vegetarian about 5 years ago, vegan about 3 years ago, raw about a year ago and then because I couldn't gain weight for the life of me (wasn't getting enough calories, cholesterol or fats) I started eating dairy and seafood again.
I still strive for macrobiotic, but I was dangerously underweight and had to binge for the past few weeks to get healthy again.

It wasnt even like I "did it wrong" or something, I ate tempeh, seitan, almond milk, spirulina, hemp protein, avocados, all the healthy fatty, high amino acid, high protein, and complete protein stuff you are supposed to have in a vegan diet and it still wasn't enough.

I was not a french fry, salad and candybar vegetarian.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #13264358 - 09/29/10 12:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
It wasnt even like I "did it wrong" or something, I ate tempeh, seitan, almond milk, spirulina, hemp protein, avocados, all the healthy fatty, high amino acid, high protein, and complete protein stuff you are supposed to have in a vegan diet and it still wasn't enough.

I was not a french fry, salad and candybar vegetarian.




I find it hard to believe you weren't getting enough calories eating those highly fatty foods. The problem is you were getting the all the wrong calories. According to the 80-10-10 raw diet, you "did it wrong." The diet recommends low-fat, low-protein foods such as tropical fruit. The high fat foods like nuts and avocados are where raw fooders turn a vegan diet into a diet with as much fat as the standard American fast-food diet (30-40% fat as opposed to the 10% recommended).


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMisterMuscaria
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 27,646
Loc: Flag
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13264416 - 09/29/10 12:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I ate plenty of fruits, vegetables and other things too.
I added the avos and whatnot because I wasnt getting enough fat


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #13264446 - 09/29/10 12:16 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

What makes you think you need a diet with more than 10% fat?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13264706 - 09/29/10 01:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I find it hard to believe you weren't getting enough calories eating those highly fatty foods. The problem is you were getting the all the wrong calories. According to the 80-10-10 raw diet, you "did it wrong." The diet recommends low-fat, low-protein foods such as tropical fruit. The high fat foods like nuts and avocados are where raw fooders turn a vegan diet into a diet with as much fat as the standard American fast-food diet (30-40% fat as opposed to the 10% recommended).





no clue where you get your information but 20%-35% is reccomended

http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/fat/index.html


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13265097 - 09/29/10 02:18 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

20-25% for men is the limit... and we wonder why 65%+ of our country is overweight

btw, these are the same people that brought you the food pyramid


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13266589 - 09/29/10 07:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

the ever changing food pyramid, unlike these fad diets


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelovecheese
observer
Male


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 682
Loc: n. illinois
Last seen: 8 months, 23 hours
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13266839 - 09/29/10 08:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
What makes you think you need a diet with more than 10% fat?



animal fats > plant fats


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13266886 - 09/29/10 08:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
the ever changing food pyramid, unlike these fad diets




Yep, the food pyramid is doing us well. :lol:



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13266970 - 09/29/10 08:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

do you honestly think that woman follows dietary guidelines?

do you honestly believe that even half of america does?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13267321 - 09/29/10 10:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Well it's apparent about 68% doesn't, but can you even call this a guideline? I'm sure the dairy industry had no say in this.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13267421 - 09/29/10 10:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

and what's so bad about dairy products?

cows love it



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13267657 - 09/29/10 11:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
20-25% for men is the limit... and we wonder why 65%+ of our country is overweight



Mostly because of carbs, not fat.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13268099 - 09/30/10 01:28 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

More modern:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMoody Vaden
Strangler

Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 141
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Shroomism]
    #13268508 - 09/30/10 04:55 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
More modern:





:thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13268741 - 09/30/10 07:40 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

> and what's so bad about dairy products?

Mainly the length of time that casein (dairy protein) takes to digest.  It tends to block the uptake of other proteins.  The bulk of the vegetable proteins, when eaten with dairy, get flushed through your system rather than being absorbed/digested because they cannot compete with the dairy.

(Edit: The above comes from discussions I have had with a friend that is an MD and PhD/chemistry that does research with sports medicine and sports dietary supplements.  I don't have sources available, and may be mis-representing what he actually said.  The above is accurate, per my understanding of our conversations.)

> do you honestly think that woman follows dietary guidelines?

I don't think it really matters.  What counts is calories in vs calories out.  She obviously consumes a lot more calories than she expends.  Portion sizes rather than food type ratios is the primary cause of obesity.  Malnutrition is the result of ignoring the food type ratios.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Edited by Seuss (09/30/10 07:49 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Seuss]
    #13269409 - 09/30/10 11:06 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> and what's so bad about dairy products?

Mainly the length of time that casein (dairy protein) takes to digest.  It tends to block the uptake of other proteins.  The bulk of the vegetable proteins, when eaten with dairy, get flushed through your system rather than being absorbed/digested because they cannot compete with the dairy.




it takes an average of 4hrs for any foods to digest and outside of water
most foods and drinks block the uptake of other nutrients, soy blocks
many minerals from being bioavailable as does many of the other foods we
eat, too much protein can cause a loss of calcium which is then leached
from the bones, caffeine also contributes, fiber bonds with calcium
preventing the body from making use of it as do the Oxalates in those
green leafy veggies we need and from what I understand, soy blocks the
trypsin enzymes which hinder the hydrolysis of proteins preventing
bioavailability more so than milk




Quote:

Portion sizes rather than food type ratios is the primary cause of obesity.




to some degree but with the addition of heavily processed foods into our
diets proper nutrition is difficult to attain and obesity increases


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinelillFish
Daydreamer
Female User Gallery


Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Recliner Flag
Last seen: 9 days, 11 minutes
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13274303 - 10/01/10 09:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Well, America is mostly fat because portion sizes have increased vastly. And people be GREEEEDY. When you go to a restaurant, they want you to enjoy your food so they butter and salt it up so you're like DAMN this shits good and you eat all of it (a meal that 2 people would be satisfied with in the 70's). People who can't afford good food end up eating shit like McDonald's which is made with the cheapest ingredients possible. It's about what is convenient.


--------------------
My Wish & Trade list


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: lillFish]
    #13274433 - 10/01/10 10:01 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

in 20 years I've seen the size of portions at fast food shrink by about
30% and to claim you cant buy good food for the price of McDonalds is
ridiculous


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinelillFish
Daydreamer
Female User Gallery


Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Recliner Flag
Last seen: 9 days, 11 minutes
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13274853 - 10/01/10 11:40 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Im talking about restaurants, not fast food joints. I don't remember there being a 'super size' back in the day. I remember what a SMALL drink looks like, now it looks like the large size of that time. Please learn me about that 30% percent decrease you are talking about cause' I am thinking that makes absolutely no sense. Maybe I should have rephrased that ignorant people who are fucking lazy don't want to buy good food because it's inconvenient.


--------------------
My Wish & Trade list


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: lillFish]
    #13275213 - 10/01/10 01:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

french fries, the went from small, medium, large to regular, large and
supersize, supersize is the same size as large used to be, they charge
more for the same size with a new name and quite a few places were
offering larger drinks back in the day


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,587
Loc: To the limit! Flag
Last seen: 43 seconds
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Seuss]
    #13278021 - 10/02/10 12:55 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> and what's so bad about dairy products?

Mainly the length of time that casein (dairy protein) takes to digest.  It tends to block the uptake of other proteins.  The bulk of the vegetable proteins, when eaten with dairy, get flushed through your system rather than being absorbed/digested because they cannot compete with the dairy.

(Edit: The above comes from discussions I have had with a friend that is an MD and PhD/chemistry that does research with sports medicine and sports dietary supplements.  I don't have sources available, and may be mis-representing what he actually said.  The above is accurate, per my understanding of our conversations.)

> do you honestly think that woman follows dietary guidelines?

I don't think it really matters.  What counts is calories in vs calories out.  She obviously consumes a lot more calories than she expends.  Portion sizes rather than food type ratios is the primary cause of obesity.  Malnutrition is the result of ignoring the food type ratios.




Only if she is gaining weight. Most obese people have reached an equilibrium, and are not gaining or loosing weight.


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   North Spore Injection Grain Bag


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Raw Food - as a lifestyle aig 1,373 12 09/04/05 06:12 PM
by GabbaDj
* Raw Food Eating MrShroom 3,239 17 06/05/05 07:16 AM
by mattymonkey
* ATKINS diet
( 1 2 3 all )
the man 10,704 43 02/21/04 01:59 AM
by the man
* How to drink on the Atkins Diet MrBump 1,874 1 05/18/04 09:02 PM
by Le_Canard
* Subway Diet.
( 1 2 3 all )
CaRnAgECaNdYS 6,058 48 09/15/06 08:31 AM
by Ramlaen
* 28 reasons not to eat meat
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
ShroomismM 10,815 82 11/07/05 01:15 PM
by absolute zero
* Diet and Nutrition Question Elvish 909 1 09/23/03 11:24 PM
by daussaulit
* Salad - First or Last? daimyo 2,332 19 10/24/05 04:03 AM
by daimyo

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: trendal, geokills, feevers
16,071 topic views. 0 members, 2 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.083 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 12 queries.