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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13260565 - 09/28/10 05:44 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/t-colin-campbell/low-fat-diets-are-grossly_b_740543.html

Quote:

For more than two decades, many commentators have discussed and cussed so-called low-fat diets and gotten away with talking nonsense. It is time to look at some facts.

Virtually all of these discussions are based on recommendations of reports of the National Academy of Sciences during the 1980s when the initial suggestion was made to reduce total dietary fat to 30 percent (from the average of 35-37 percent of calories) -- I know because I co-authored the first of these reports on diet and cancer in 1982. Then, during the next decade or so, this 30 percent benchmark became the definition of a low fat diet. A myth was born because this diet did not lead to obesity, as claimed.

During the next 10 years when this low fat myth was growing, average percent dietary fat barely changed -- maybe decreasing a couple percentage points to about 33 percent, at best. In reality, the amount of fat consumed INCREASED because total calorie consumption also increased. Furthermore, during this same period of low fat mythology (1980s-1990s), obesity incidence increased.

Now, enter Robert Atkins and other writers who argued that obesity was increasing because of our switch to low fat diets. By going low fat -- so the mythical story went -- we were consuming more carbohydrate, an energy source from plant-based foods. This was a serious misrepresentation of the facts.

By falsely blaming low fat, 'high carb' diets for the obesity crisis, these writers were then free to promote the opposite: high fat, low 'carb', high cholesterol and high protein diets rich in animal-based foods, a so-called low 'carb' diet. During the initial discussions of this 'low carb' diet, no distinction was made between the refined carbohydrates (sugar and white flour as commonly present in processed foods) and the natural carbohydrates almost exclusively present in plant-based foods.

Later, some attention was given to refined carbohydrates (sugar, white flour) as a contributor to obesity, but by then the damage due to this obfuscation had been done. 'Carbs' were out, protein and fat were in. By initially demonizing 'carbs' and so-called 'low fat' diets and emphasizing increased protein and fat consumption, the intended path was clear: consume a diet rich in animal-based foods instead of a diet rich in plant-based foods.

Obesity continues to climb but not because of a switch to a plant-foods rich diet naturally low in fat and high in carbohydrate (TOTAL carbohydrate, that is). Rather, obesity increases as physical activity decreases and as sugary, fatty, salty processed food consumption increases.

More serious, however, is the effect that this mythology has had on suppressing information on the extraordinary health value of diets that are truly low in fat (10-12 percent). I am referring to a whole foods, plant-based diet that avoids added fat and processed and animal-based foods. This diet contains about 10-12 percent fat, sometimes pejoratively referred to as "extremely low fat". Call it what you will, but this diet (also low in total protein, about 8-10 percent) produces, by comparison, "extremely low" incidences of sickness and disease. In fact, it now has been shown not just to prevent these illnesses but to treat them. Importantly, this dietary lifestyle cannot be dismissed by the mythological argument that so-called low fat diets have been proven to be questionable.

Professional medical researchers and practitioners also repeat this same mantra as if it is real. It has been shown for example in the very large Nurses' Health Study at Harvard over an observation period of at least 14 years that reducing dietary fat from about 50 percent to about 25 percent of total calories has no association with breast cancer rates. Based on this and related studies, the sole manipulation of fat within this range does little or nothing when the diet still contains such high proportions of animal based and processed foods. Total protein remains very high throughout this range and worse, the proportion of protein from animal-based sources, already high when fat is high, if anything, increases even more when fat is independently decreased.

It is time that we seriously consider the health benefits of a whole food, plant based diet, which is naturally low in total fat, animal-based protein, and refined carbohydrates but rich in antioxidants and complex carbohydrates. The health benefits that are now being reported for this dietary lifestyle are unmatched in scope and magnitude of effect. It is time to discard the gibberish about low fat diets being responsible for the obesity epidemic. This demonizing of low fat diets does not apply to whole food plant-based diets, even lower in fat, because this dietary lifestyle really works. Just try it, but stay with it long enough to allow your body to overcome your taste preferences for fat that arise from its addictive nature.




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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13260874 - 09/28/10 06:43 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

you should read the Kroeker analysis of T. Colin Campbell's work, The China Study

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study#Criticisms


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13260930 - 09/28/10 06:51 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I read it, bit it's only two lines on wikipedia. Do you have any other sources I could go though? Is he using the same dataset? As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, a vegan diet does not imply a healthy diet, nor does an carnivorous diet imply an unhealthy diet. But this does not mean that they can be in general otherwise.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13260946 - 09/28/10 06:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)



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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13261137 - 09/28/10 07:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Actually I did read through the other stuff. Most of them just come out and call the author a "crusader" to get people to eat vegan without any conclusive data of their own - What are their motives? Is an Amazon message board really the best you have? How do I know this random guy is not skewing data for his own agenda? I'm taking a look at the variables and it really doesn't make any sense to me.

Takes these lines for example:
-46.6 81 276 D050 REDMEAT diet survey RED MEAT (pork, beef, mutton) INTAKE (g/d
-40.7 89 263 D037 RICE diet survey RICE INTAKE (g/day/reference man, air-dry
-38.0 84 237 D011 TOTCAROT diet survey TOTAL CAROTENOID INTAKE (retinol equivale
-36.0 84 277 D051 POULTRY diet survey POULTRY INTAKE (g/day/reference man, as-c

Does this suggest that red meat is healthier than rice, which is healthier than carrots and poultry? How is any of this conclusive?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13263311 - 09/29/10 08:00 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Heffy]
    #13263330 - 09/29/10 08:09 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I went vegetarian about 5 years ago, vegan about 3 years ago, raw about a year ago and then because I couldn't gain weight for the life of me (wasn't getting enough calories, cholesterol or fats) I started eating dairy and seafood again.
I still strive for macrobiotic, but I was dangerously underweight and had to binge for the past few weeks to get healthy again.

It wasnt even like I "did it wrong" or something, I ate tempeh, seitan, almond milk, spirulina, hemp protein, avocados, all the healthy fatty, high amino acid, high protein, and complete protein stuff you are supposed to have in a vegan diet and it still wasn't enough.

I was not a french fry, salad and candybar vegetarian.


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #13264358 - 09/29/10 12:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
It wasnt even like I "did it wrong" or something, I ate tempeh, seitan, almond milk, spirulina, hemp protein, avocados, all the healthy fatty, high amino acid, high protein, and complete protein stuff you are supposed to have in a vegan diet and it still wasn't enough.

I was not a french fry, salad and candybar vegetarian.




I find it hard to believe you weren't getting enough calories eating those highly fatty foods. The problem is you were getting the all the wrong calories. According to the 80-10-10 raw diet, you "did it wrong." The diet recommends low-fat, low-protein foods such as tropical fruit. The high fat foods like nuts and avocados are where raw fooders turn a vegan diet into a diet with as much fat as the standard American fast-food diet (30-40% fat as opposed to the 10% recommended).


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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13264416 - 09/29/10 12:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I ate plenty of fruits, vegetables and other things too.
I added the avos and whatnot because I wasnt getting enough fat


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #13264446 - 09/29/10 12:16 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

What makes you think you need a diet with more than 10% fat?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13264706 - 09/29/10 01:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I find it hard to believe you weren't getting enough calories eating those highly fatty foods. The problem is you were getting the all the wrong calories. According to the 80-10-10 raw diet, you "did it wrong." The diet recommends low-fat, low-protein foods such as tropical fruit. The high fat foods like nuts and avocados are where raw fooders turn a vegan diet into a diet with as much fat as the standard American fast-food diet (30-40% fat as opposed to the 10% recommended).





no clue where you get your information but 20%-35% is reccomended

http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/fat/index.html


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13265097 - 09/29/10 02:18 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

20-25% for men is the limit... and we wonder why 65%+ of our country is overweight

btw, these are the same people that brought you the food pyramid


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13266589 - 09/29/10 07:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

the ever changing food pyramid, unlike these fad diets


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Offlinelovecheese
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13266839 - 09/29/10 08:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
What makes you think you need a diet with more than 10% fat?



animal fats > plant fats


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13266886 - 09/29/10 08:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
the ever changing food pyramid, unlike these fad diets




Yep, the food pyramid is doing us well. :lol:



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13266970 - 09/29/10 08:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

do you honestly think that woman follows dietary guidelines?

do you honestly believe that even half of america does?


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13267321 - 09/29/10 10:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Well it's apparent about 68% doesn't, but can you even call this a guideline? I'm sure the dairy industry had no say in this.



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13267421 - 09/29/10 10:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

and what's so bad about dairy products?

cows love it



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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13267657 - 09/29/10 11:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
20-25% for men is the limit... and we wonder why 65%+ of our country is overweight



Mostly because of carbs, not fat.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13268099 - 09/30/10 01:28 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

More modern:


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