|
Chespirito
Stranger



Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#13129621 - 08/31/10 04:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunza_people
"The people of Hunza are by some noted for their exceptionally long life expectancy,[5] others describe this as a longevity narrative and cite a life expectancy of 53 years for men and 52 for women, although with a high standard deviation. [6] "
5: http://books.google.com/books?id=lMfSuHgabYoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=wheel+of+health&hl=en&ei=El9kTMHPAo3QcffGxJYF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
6: http://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/29/magazine/the-optimists-are-right.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2
From number 6 "The great Hunza secret to old age turned out to be its absence of birth records. The illiterate elders didn't know how old they were, and they tended to overestimate their ages by a decade or two, as I discovered by comparing their recollections with known historical events. Hunza didn't have an unusual number of centenarians, it turned out, and its traditional way of life was not a formula for good health."
|
c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Chespirito]
#13136114 - 09/01/10 08:58 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Log in to view attachment
I'm sure this has been posted in this thread before, but I'll add it just for good measure.
|
ReposadoXochipilli
Here, there, inbetween



Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 7,501
Loc: Sand and sunshine
Last seen: 18 days, 14 hours
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#13140046 - 09/02/10 07:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
i have 2 roomies that are vegetarians, and although both are intelligent people, they seem to clutch to ideas about food and health that just are not true, and follow it up it a bunch of chips and pre packaged foods while thinking they are more healthy.
raw foods must work for some people but my modern lifestyle would not allow me to do much more then eat in my free time and work, thats it.
I for one always love food, food is love, heat it up 
the entire better then thou meatless thing blows me away...
--------------------
|
fugazi32
Hardcore Raver & Junglist


Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Milton Keynes, England
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
#13149518 - 09/05/10 06:56 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Knewnews said:the entire better then thou meatless thing blows me away...
Being a vegetarian, which is something I keep to myself and not enforce on others, I often find it is the meat eaters who wave it my face instead with the not-so-true arguments. My father-in-law in convinced humans are meant to eat meat, due to the fact we have canines - when so do gorillas! Our biology points towards more of a herbivore/vegetarian diet. (Length of intestines, we chew our food, no claws, etc). But he still won't accept it! Some people don't like having their reality tunnels and vices challenged...
-------------------- “Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence." - Robert Anton Wilson It is so obvious: Psilocybin Mushrooms are living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: fugazi32]
#13150486 - 09/05/10 11:59 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
fugazi32 said: My father-in-law in convinced humans are meant to eat meat, due to the fact we have canines - when so do gorillas!
did you ever think to see if gorillas eat meat or did you simply choose to believe they were herbivores
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100305-first-proof-gorillas-eat-monkeys-mammals-feces-dna/
Quote:
Our biology points towards more of a herbivore/vegetarian diet. (Length of intestines, we chew our food, no claws, etc). But he still won't accept it! Some people don't like having their reality tunnels and vices challenged... 
probably because he's rights, it's been 4 million years since our ancestors were last strictly herbivorous, we evolved to what we are now, becoming carnivorous... why stay so stuck in the past, move into the future
|
Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion



Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#13150573 - 09/05/10 12:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
You really oughta read an article before you post it.
Quote:
gorillas are known to eat ants that scavenge the carcasses and bones of monkeys and other mammals. When gorillas eat the ants, they may also be ingesting—and later expelling—the mammal DNA in the ants' digestive tracts, the study authors speculate.
Another possibility is that the mammal DNA came from live monkeys or duikers that had been probing the gorilla feces for edible seeds or other leftover plant bits.
Or the mammals "might have just licked it, sniffed it, or peed on it," Schubert said.
"There's plenty of opportunities" for adding mammal DNA to gorilla scat after the fact, Schubert said. "I don't really think they're eating meat."
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
#13151096 - 09/05/10 02:36 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I did read it and the most plausible is that they do on occasion eat meat not to mention that eating insects excludes them from eating a strictly plant based diet
|
c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#13152344 - 09/05/10 07:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: I did read it and the most plausible is that they do on occasion eat meat not to mention that eating insects excludes them from eating a strictly plant based diet
Most humans eat FAR more meat than gorillas. The vast majority of their diet is fruit and plants. Same with Chimpanzees, who are the closest cousin to us. They are also about 5 times pound for pound stronger than humans. The homo sapien, originating from a tropical environment, evolved from and to eat a mostly fruit based diet - it is what our bodies can most easily digest and convert into energy. The 80-10-10 diet book I posted has some interested case studies which look at the people of our world who have the longest life spans. Guess what they eat!?
|
Tri High
Whigro


Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 11,769
Loc: Monaghan, Ireland
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#13152451 - 09/05/10 08:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
we're omnivores, anyhow. not carnivored.
-------------------- you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes
|
Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion



Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#13152479 - 09/05/10 08:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
So your conclusion, on a study you haven't even read, oppose that of the scientist who actually conducted the study.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
Edited by Senor_Doobie (09/05/10 08:06 PM)
|
Tri High
Whigro


Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 11,769
Loc: Monaghan, Ireland
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
#13152562 - 09/05/10 08:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
he's part of the secret service, man.
cointel pro. spread disinformation whereever however he can. I'd be willing to put money on that.
might as well disregard every opinion he has, unless he's making a quip.
-------------------- you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#13153133 - 09/05/10 10:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said: Most humans eat FAR more meat than gorillas. The vast majority of their diet is fruit and plants. Same with Chimpanzees, who are the closest cousin to us. They are also about 5 times pound for pound stronger than humans.
they also have the intelligence of a 5yo human, humans by the way are in fact not gorillas and chimps, the point being that we evolved as did your diets, studies show that the meat consumption is at least in part responsible for our greater intelligence
Quote:
The homo sapien, originating from a tropical environment, evolved from and to eat a mostly fruit based diet - it is what our bodies can most easily digest and convert into energy.
4 million years of evolution in our diet think that doesnt affect the way we've evolved, think maybe we're still meant to be on that 80% fruit diet, explain why Homo neanderthalensis ate almost exclusively meat
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC16602/?tool=pmcentrez
Quote:
The isotope evidence overwhelmingly points to the Neanderthals behaving as top-level carnivores, obtaining almost all of their dietary protein from animal sources.
Quote:
The 80-10-10 diet book I posted has some interested case studies which look at the people of our world who have the longest life spans. Guess what they eat!? 
you may want to check that lifespan claim, shown by country, which ones are dominantly vegetarian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
#13153167 - 09/05/10 10:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Senor_Doobie said: So your conclusion, on a study you haven't even read, oppose that of the scientist who actually conducted the study.
they suggested other ways that mammalian DNA could have been incorporated, why does occams razor apply to everything but what someone else opposes, sure it's possible another gorilla just came by and licked it and moved on but what are the odds every sample tested and showing DNA from other mammals were contaminated
Quote:
While some zoo specimens are known to eat meat, wild gorillas eat only plants and fruit, along with the odd insect-as far as scientists know.
|
lovecheese
observer



Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 682
Loc: n. illinois
Last seen: 8 months, 23 hours
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#13153182 - 09/05/10 10:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: I did read it and the most plausible is that they do on occasion eat meat not to mention that eating insects excludes them from eating a strictly plant based diet
Most humans eat FAR more meat than gorillas. The vast majority of their diet is fruit and plants. Same with Chimpanzees, who are the closest cousin to us. They are also about 5 times pound for pound stronger than humans. The homo sapien, originating from a tropical environment, evolved from and to eat a mostly fruit based diet - it is what our bodies can most easily digest and convert into energy. The 80-10-10 diet book I posted has some interested case studies which look at the people of our world who have the longest life spans. Guess what they eat!? 
there's one problem with this theory. the fruit we have around today was nowhere close to the fruit that existed millennium ago. all our fruit is "unnatural" in the sense that sweet, delicious, high sugar fruit is a product of selective farming since the invention of agriculture.
watch this video series for more info:
|
c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: lovecheese]
#13154939 - 09/06/10 12:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said: Most humans eat FAR more meat than gorillas. The vast majority of their diet is fruit and plants. Same with Chimpanzees, who are the closest cousin to us. They are also about 5 times pound for pound stronger than humans.
they also have the intelligence of a 5yo human, humans by the way are in fact not gorillas and chimps, the point being that we evolved as did your diets, studies show that the meat consumption is at least in part responsible for our greater intelligence
Quote:
The homo sapien, originating from a tropical environment, evolved from and to eat a mostly fruit based diet - it is what our bodies can most easily digest and convert into energy.
4 million years of evolution in our diet think that doesnt affect the way we've evolved, think maybe we're still meant to be on that 80% fruit diet, explain why Homo neanderthalensis ate almost exclusively meat
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC16602/?tool=pmcentrez
Quote:
The isotope evidence overwhelmingly points to the Neanderthals behaving as top-level carnivores, obtaining almost all of their dietary protein from animal sources.
Quote:
The 80-10-10 diet book I posted has some interested case studies which look at the people of our world who have the longest life spans. Guess what they eat!? 
you may want to check that lifespan claim, shown by country, which ones are dominantly vegetarian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
Homo neanderthalensis ate almost exclusively meat because he did not live in environments prone to tropical fruit. I really don't see the connection between intelligence and how sustenance contributes to bodily health - You see very few overweight primates. In fact, most of the are in ideal shape. 4 million years of evolution aside, we are still physiologically nearly identical to the first humans (other than growing in size) - who evolved from and to eat fruit.
I'm not talking about case studies of countries (which obviously have other contributing factors other than what is ate, i.e healthcare). I'm talking about studies that have been done on indigenous tribes, whose diet was the main contribution to life expectancy. I'll look up the page in the book I posted when I have more time...
Quote:
chairlock3d said: there's one problem with this theory. the fruit we have around today was nowhere close to the fruit that existed millennium ago. all our fruit is "unnatural" in the sense that sweet, delicious, high sugar fruit is a product of selective farming since the invention of agriculture.
Tropical fruit, that is fruit indigenous to the tropics, is what I am saying humans are meant to eat. Every food you eat gets converted to sugar eventually - sugar is what our body uses for energy. There are bad sugars and good sugars. The micronutrients, nutrients and good sugars found in tropical fruit is idea for our human bodies. Fruit has special chemicals in it which allow this sugar to be released over prolonged periods of times (giving you sustained energy) as opposed to the sugars you find in your sweet snacks and soda.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#13160779 - 09/07/10 04:52 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said: Homo neanderthalensis ate almost exclusively meat because he did not live in environments prone to tropical fruit. I really don't see the connection between intelligence and how sustenance contributes to bodily health - You see very few overweight primates.
there was little tropical fruit anywhere in the world as most of what we know as edible only came about in the last 12,000 years, with the birth of agriculture, in fact the video that chairlock3d posted is quite interesting because it covers this very topic
human intelligence and meat go hand in hand http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s6549.html
why is it that every herbivorous gorilla I see has a pot belly, in fact why do most primates have big bellies including the simians, maybe the distended belly is from malnutrition like with those poor starving kids all over the world, and if that's the case, those malnourished gorillas are a prime example of why we should eat meat...

Quote:
4 million years of evolution aside, we are still physiologically nearly identical to the first humans (other than growing in size) - who evolved from and to eat fruit
.
we really should define 'first humans', if we take it back to 4 million years, then of course we were so very much the same, just like gorillas

so very few physiological changes in 4 million years

Quote:
Tropical fruit, that is fruit indigenous to the tropics, is what I am saying humans are meant to eat.
I'm saying you're wrong, the earliest of human ancestors were determined to be omnivorous
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/326/5949/69/DC2
Quote:
The micronutrients, nutrients and good sugars found in tropical fruit is idea for our human bodies.
really, what about complete proteins, what about fats which humans require to live healthy
|
Heffy
BrauMeister



Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: lovecheese]
#13161062 - 09/07/10 05:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
chairlock3d said:
Quote:
Heffy said:
Quote:
fugazi32 said:
Quote:
Silversoul said:Our species was already making fire and using tools when it first evolved. Thus, our bodies are well-adapted to the consumption of cooked food.
Hmmm....is that so??! Then why do the tribes that still eat raw/whole foods live longer and have no cancer rates or heart disease? 
Read: Raw Perfection - it might clear things up some what... 
Raw food diets are total BS. I'm not going to read a stupid book espousing raw food diets when I know enough about them already to know that they offer no real health benefits over a well balanced diet that includes cooked foods.
Most of the outrageous claims made by the raw foodist(who clearly know nothing about proteins, enzymes, and carbohydrates) have been thoroughly debunked.
If you think that your "tribes" live so large with no fire or tools, I say go join them. At least it wold get this raw food pseudoscience tripe off the internet.
ok mr. king of knowledge, teach me.
and your statement REEKS of ignorance. in fact, it reminds me of this article http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-already-knows-everything-he-needs-to-know-abou,17990/ so you're either a troll or ignorant (and there is nothing wrong with ignorance if you seek to educate yourself)
What information have you provided me that I am ignoring?
I'm not going to buy and read a whole book, on a subject that I'm pretty much completely convinced is trash, just to prove you wrong and refute the ideas in it.
Have you given me any information that suggests a raw food diet is more healthy than a balanced, all inclusive diet?
Most raw foodies have a piss poor understanding of nutrition. Especially the interaction of enzymes seems to baffle them. I constantly hear raw foodies saying the most absurd things about enzymes.
I am currently pursuing a career in brewing chemistry, so enzymes, carbohydrates, proteins, amino acids, etc, are things I am studying in some depth. Most of the things I hear raw foodies saying about nutrition demonstrate a complete lack of understanding.
Prove me wrong.
-------------------- I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
|
c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#13161337 - 09/07/10 06:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I agree fats and proteins are necessary, just not in the magnitude found in the average American diet. It is called the 80-10-10 diet because it recommends a caloric intake consisting of about 10% fats and 10% protein as well.
By first human, I meant strictly homo sapien. I understand its estimated they came about only about 1 million years ago? So in the past 1 million years the physiological changes haven't been too profound. And humans didn't start farming in the agricultural sense until about a small fraction of that time.
To be honest, I don't really watch you tube videos that people post. I find them to be a slow and often inaccurate source of information. What exactly is the video proposing - that all tropical fruit has only evolved recently? I'm no expert on evolution, but I was under the impression most of the fruit and plants on our planet has been here for a long time. Humans are essentially the newest thing walking on Earth, no?
I don't think you can equate the pronounced stomach of the gorilla with that of a malnutritioned child. The gorilla, or chimpanzee for example, is about 5 times pound for pound stronger than a human being. Pot belly or not, they are in peak physical shape being able to scale trees and fight off enemies. Their muscles are not degenerating like a child facing malnutrition.
|
daussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#13162319 - 09/07/10 09:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:Most humans eat FAR more meat than gorillas. The vast majority of their diet is fruit and plants. Same with Chimpanzees, who are the closest cousin to us. They are also about 5 times pound for pound stronger than humans. The homo sapien, originating from a tropical environment, evolved from and to eat a mostly fruit based diet - it is what our bodies can most easily digest and convert into energy. The 80-10-10 diet book I posted has some interested case studies which look at the people of our world who have the longest life spans. Guess what they eat!? 
Of course humans eat far more meat than gorillas. Gorillas spend hours and hours eating plants and it takes a very large amount of energy just to chew and process all that vegetation. Who cares if gorillas are 5 times stronger pound per pound when compared to humans. I am incredibly more intelligent than a gorilla. I can fashion tools with my opposable thumbs, sharpen sticks, and throw it at high speeds with my evolved shoulder and long arms. We eat meat because of the 2,000,000+ years of eating meat, we have no need for a large vegetation processing gut. With these extra calories our brains grew larger and instead of having to gnaw the rinds off fruits and vegetables, there were tools fashioned to process food, making it easier to consume. Which is why our jaws got smaller. 100 grams of raw beef contains more than three times as many calories as 100 grams of pineapple(Source). I'm just eating more efficiently.
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:Homo neanderthalensis ate almost exclusively meat because he did not live in environments prone to tropical fruit. I really don't see the connection between intelligence and how sustenance contributes to bodily health - You see very few overweight primates.
Let me explain it to you then. The brain in an average human is about 2% of total body weight, however the brain uses about 25% of the body's oxygen and energy(calories). Honestly, I'm not sure if I could survive on plants alone. The total weight of food that I would need to consume is more than what my digestive tract has been evolved to handle.
As far as these "fit" primates? Where are you seeing these primates at? In the jungle or rain forest where they spent most of their day searching for food? How about the zoo? Those animals in the zoo have their diet monitored and their food weighed. If someone was monitoring and weighing all the food that everyone ate, no one would be obese.
Edited by daussaulit (09/07/10 09:40 PM)
|
c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
|
Re: I think that raw food diets are a bunch of garbage. [Re: daussaulit]
#13162391 - 09/07/10 09:39 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
You should check out the amount of fat in 100 grams of raw beef as opposed to that in tropical fruit. If you think efficiency is based on mere calories to mass ratio, we should simply eat a cup of olive oil a day. Fruit is actually more efficient considering it is raw energy for the body (the body does not need to break it down). A person eating a 2000 calorie a day diet would only need to eat about 20 bananas a day to sustain themself. A larger weight training person like myself needs to eat about double that, which isn't unreasonable in my 5-6 meals daily - I eat about 2500 calories of fruit each day and supplement my the other 1000 calories or so with meat and other foods. Animals in the wild, whose diet is not monitored, are more fit than the animals being fed by humans in the zoo. I'd reckon this is because they get much more exercise (which people in our country also lack).
|
|