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Invisibleblahblahblah
Mad Scientist

Registered: 10/24/01
Posts: 1,022
Loc: South America
potency of mushrooms grown on straw
    #1222155 - 01/15/03 06:37 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I was just wondering if anyone had any experience with the mushrooms on straw being unusually weak? I had a friend that grew them out a year or so ago and the potency was very low compared to birdseed or rye in my opinion. I know clubb99 said that he noticed it in his grow (though he had a dung to straw ratio of 70/30 I believe)
Any comments?

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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: blahblahblah]
    #1222228 - 01/15/03 07:58 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

straw makes a good casing, i have not tried it as a substraste .
but the pan subbs i have found on rotting hay where just as good as the ones growing in manuere :grin:
not sure if this helps . i think its kind of a subjective thing . 

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Invisibleblahblahblah
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: deanofmean]
    #1222995 - 01/16/03 05:55 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

This is encouraging. I have a container with straw that I spawned last night. Maybe it was the strain of mushroom and not the substrate. The mushrooms that I had were pink buffallo, they were not as potent as the other strains I had taken even when they were on birdseed. These were also the mushrooms that Club99 grew on his straw.
Thanks, any comments are still welcome

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OfflineSnobrdr311
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: blahblahblah]
    #1223094 - 01/16/03 06:40 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I'd like to know this as well..  I can't see any reason why they would be.  Straw is full of nutrients and an excellent substrate.  It either has to have somthing to do with heat or genetics I would think. 

I have never grown on straw, but I plan on ordering some soon for some Pan Cyans.  Can't wait..  :smile:

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OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: blahblahblah]
    #1223680 - 01/16/03 11:02 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Are you talking about straw, or hay?

I would bet that manure would have a lot more nutrients per pound then straw.

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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: Snobrdr311]
    #1223687 - 01/16/03 11:04 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I havent experienced any lack of potency from straw grown mushies..so i think it might be a "feature" of that particular strain... :wink:

peace...

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Invisibleblahblahblah
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: On_the_Down-Low]
    #1223707 - 01/16/03 11:13 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I am pretty sure it is straw. I think the hay was a green color it seemed like. Hay is alfalfa isn't it. Pretty sure this is wheat straw and the stuff it was grown on before was wheat straw.

I bet that the straw vs manure thing is probably true but I wouldn't expect that it would be too different. A lb of straw vs a lb of manure there is alot more straw than you would think in a lb. Not only that but alot of dairy and farm animals eat straw and grass, and I don't think the digestive tract of the animal would add nutrients. It may break down the nutrients in the straw so it is easier for the mushrooms to digest though.
I dunno maybe it was just the strain. Oh btw I made a typo with Clubb99 strain, they were GT's which I have also heard weren't that potent either anyway.
Thanks, mas comments?

Edited by blahblahblah (01/16/03 11:17 AM)

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Anonymous

Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: blahblahblah]
    #1224674 - 01/16/03 06:20 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)



This PR mycelium seems to like the straw (wheat). Day 9 after spawning with 3, 1/2 pint jars of wild bird seed.
(one gallon container)

Edited by AverageWhiteGuy (01/16/03 06:22 PM)

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Offlinekayaman9
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: ]
    #1228008 - 01/18/03 02:17 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Straw is a great substrate for a lot of cubes but it doesn't have the same nutrient value than if you mix it with dung or you grow off of birdseed or other grains. I've noticed lots of variations with the straw and potency. Personally, I like Birdseed substrate for potency, but for weight, definitely the straw. It's always better mixed with poo though. It's all about the poo

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OfflineSnobrdr311
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: kayaman9]
    #1229849 - 01/18/03 06:53 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I still don't see why they'd be any less potent. I wish Anno would get in on this, he has grown a ton of shrooms off Straw. His Pans grow better on straw than dung.

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Offlinekayaman9
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: Snobrdr311]
    #1230269 - 01/19/03 02:21 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah but pans are different, they prefer a more straw to dung ratio to fruit off of. I'm not saying it's a HUGE difference in potency but you could sure tell the difference between cubes grown off of straw and cubes grown off of birdseed. Cubes off of straw will be bigger but less potent than the birdseed ones. There is just not enough nutrients in it to make more alkaloid content I think, but there are always varations in everything. just my 2 cents, peace

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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: kayaman9]
    #1232035 - 01/19/03 06:00 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I would say there is nutrient there but they may not be availble to the shrooms in a form so that they can break it down in the same way as, lets say dung or birdseed.
Just a thought, don?t know if its true though.

peace..

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OfflineWaldarbeiter
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: blahblahblah]
    #1232720 - 01/20/03 02:42 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

hello fellow shroomers,

I use only wheat straw (pelletized, I get it at petshop)
and the results are... always different.
One of my srongest trips ever was from shrooms grown on straw.
I'm talking about cubensis,
trying trops and cyans soon.

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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: Waldarbeiter]
    #1233851 - 01/20/03 10:08 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I've personally never been able to get consistent variations in potency based on substrate. Meaning that I've seen lots of variation in potency over the years, but never one substrate or another consistently being the strong or weak one. Straw is not as nutritious pound for pound as grains, and it may lack certain precursers that are found in other substrates. My simple solution to this problem is to simply use high spawn rates, in effect using the colonized grain as a nutrient supplement for the straw. Colonized faster, gave more flushes, and I felt better by thinking that potency potential had been maximized.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.

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OfflineSnobrdr311
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: mycofile]
    #1235000 - 01/20/03 06:46 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

See I always thought Straw had more nutrients than grains. The flushes on Straw are always larger and more abundant on straw than grains it seems.

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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: blahblahblah]
    #1235097 - 01/20/03 07:46 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

hi..bro

I'll let you know in a little while.
I'm trying straight straw right now just to see the outcome.

Allen strain on straw....day 3.




--------------------
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You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.


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Invisibleblahblahblah
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: Roadkill]
    #1236680 - 01/21/03 11:06 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Hey, havent heard from you in a while. My tubs are comming along too, slowly but they are comming along. I think the moisture content may be a bit too high. Good to hear from you though roadkill, pm me when you get a chance

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OfflineSnobrdr311
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: blahblahblah]
    #1236906 - 01/21/03 12:38 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Are you going to case your tubs BBB?

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Invisibleblahblahblah
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: Snobrdr311]
    #1237921 - 01/21/03 05:54 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I think so, I am going to try a different approach to it this time if I do though as I believe that I have been casing wrong in the past

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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: blahblahblah]
    #1237991 - 01/21/03 06:31 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

In my experience with straw..they do alot better cased.
Basic 50/50 will do great.
peace...

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InvisibleLuciferX
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: stonErollEr1]
    #1262708 - 01/30/03 04:06 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

in my experience straw alone provides lots of fiber and produces many large mushrooms, but the potency has always been lower. mixing dung in with it usually helps and using a unusual amount of grain spawn will definitely increase potency. although strain differences may account for some of it. the TC's i grew on straw alone did ok, but many of the other strains were weaker for sure. i always throw in some dung now, just in case.


--------------------
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Offlinerawtoxic
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: blahblahblah]
    #1263028 - 01/30/03 06:15 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

my friends mom has grown on 100% straw, cased with 50/50... b+ seemed noticeably weaker on straw than buffalo shiat she had..

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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: rawtoxic]
    #1263401 - 01/30/03 08:12 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)



Edited by Hermes_br (12/13/04 09:02 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: Hermes_br]
    #1263619 - 01/30/03 09:47 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting stuff Hermes_br. Biochemistry isn't my strongest field but I do find it interesting. I would love to see more information like this circulated on this board. I don't exactly know what resarch has been done out there. In particular I would like to know more about the biochemical process that produces the sought after components of the mushrooms we are all so interested in. I am also interested in finding out more about the nutritional requirements of these same mushrooms. Great stuff Hermes_br.

I'm nobody.

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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: ]
    #1264205 - 01/31/03 02:51 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

.

Edited by Hermes_br (12/13/04 09:20 PM)

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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: Hermes_br]
    #3494368 - 12/13/04 09:04 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

.

Edited by Hermes_br (12/13/04 09:20 PM)

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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: Hermes_br]
    #3494474 - 12/13/04 09:23 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

guys, I'm sorry for the bump, i've made a mistake here.

:tongue:

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Offlinesinfull7
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: Hermes_br]
    #3506920 - 12/15/04 11:15 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

personally .i prefer straw over any substrate there isn't a def in potency that i can see. i always get a plus or minus 10 . on the how high scale from birth to bath . and wheat straw is all i grow on .the yield makes up for any potency that (might ) be lost .

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Invisibleagar
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: sinfull7]
    #3507581 - 12/16/04 05:45 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

This beats STRAW ALONE - hands down:

Potent like a rattlesnake bite.

IF YOU HAVE A PC, this is an easy blend of quasi/compost SYNTHETIC BULK SUBSTRATE.

Finely chopped ground aged /leached horse manure & presoaked finely chopped wheat straw, fortified with a small percentage of home ground BRF & some pre/soaked PC?ed WBS, as a delayed nutrient - source, with a little verm added -to increase its moisture retention capacity.

No exacting magic formula.
For instance, a 5 or 10 gallon size tote tub w/lid. Fill halfway with aged chopped (as fine as you can get it) horse manure. About a 20% portion of pre/soaked finely chopped wheat straw (the finer, the better). A couple pounds of home ground BRF. 3 or 4 quarts of pre/soaked PC?ed millet based WBS (PC?ed will not germinate). About a gallon size volume of vermiculite. Just toss it all in & mix well.

When you want to use it, take out however much you intend to use & add spring water until at field capacity (meaning - when you squeeze it - just a few drops of moisture - drip from it). Then PC the prepared mix (@ 15 psi 60 - 70 minutes) in a autoclave, turkey or tinfoil baking bag.

Allow to cool to room temp & spawn ASAP (sooner the better) @ about 15 to 20 % rate with colonized WBS.

Saran wrap top of container, poke some (10 or 15) pinholes in Saran wrap (for gas exchange), then cover container top with aluminum foil applied crumpled & loose over top & bent over edges a few inches (to keep it in darkness - but still allow some gas exchange).

That is a simple inexpensive bulk blend, that requires no science, or brain surgery to make. If you can find the ingredients (which isn?t tough, if you are tenacious & look for them). Think Feed & seed store for wheat straw & horse stables for horse poo.

Incubated & 80/85F & high rh, so it will not dehydrate. Once fully colonized, case with pasteurized or PC?ed 50/50 Verm - Coir mix , with sprinkle of finely crushed oyster shell (chicken grit - think feed store) to balance & maintain ph of casing mix.
PC'ed substrate mix is in a BAG & easy to protect.

WBS spawn is in 100% colonized quart jars, or autoclave filter/patch bag.

So - both are clean & good to go.

Use 12 quart / 11.4 liter STERILITE dishpan (or similar container).
($1.69 at Walmart)

Bake a few feet of rolled tinfoil in oven @ 350F - 10 - 15 minutes.

In as clean as possible surrounding conditions (cleaned Lysol?ed bathroom - G/B, or flow-hood).

Wear dust or surgical mask, cover hair, have clean hands, if using bathroom.

Spray tub with white VINIGAR
Then, spray with hydrogen peroxide (3% H202).
Wipe dry with sterile gauze pad.
This will KILL any contam on it.

Add sterilized tinfoil to tub BOTTOM & SIDES, if light shines through it.(so light doesn?t penetrate sides & bottom & cause bottom pinning - later).

Open Substrate bag & empty into lined container.

Open spawn jars - or bags & mix into substrate.

Pull out a couple feet Saran Wrap & spray with H202 (no need to wipe off).

Cover container TOP with Saran Wrap, H202 side down.

Pinhole Saran Wrap with alc swabbed needle.

Cover Saran Wrap with prepared & crumpled Tinfoil.

Bingo, you have a CLEAN & self contained substrate - ready to incubate.


--------------------

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OfflineAuroricDistortions
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: agar]
    #3509007 - 12/16/04 02:11 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

:thanx:, good info


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: blahblahblah]
    #3516185 - 12/18/04 02:30 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Straw has a low trytophan precursor content so i would expect low potency.
Grow with millet - its the best by miles...


--------------------

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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #3516360 - 12/18/04 05:16 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

""Straw has a low trytophan precursor content so i would expect low potency.""

what is the nature of this "trytophan precursor" ?

The chart I?ve posted above shows the biosynthesis pathway of tryptophan in bacteria.
glucose --> tryptophan

It is possible that the same goes for fungi, if not, then tell me were does tryptophan comes from in  the potent woodlovers ?

could  anyone shed a light upon this ?
tryptophan is a psilocybine precursor, but it does not answers the question, where does tryptophan comes from ?

Thanks  :wink:

Edited by Hermes_br (12/20/04 04:27 AM)

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Offlinefranco_on
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: Hermes_br]
    #3519047 - 12/18/04 11:33 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Could one mix in uncolonized pc'ed birdseed to straw and then colonized as per usual so that there is more nutrients to be found? My understanding from this log is that the straw is not inhibiting the production, but merely not providing the proper chemicals, right?
Does birdseed or other substrates have higher 'trytophan precursors'.

I need to research what 'trytophan precursors' are now, so please excuse my ignorance.

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Invisiblemicro
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: franco_on]
    #3519321 - 12/19/04 01:05 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I once ate a whole straw casing and I tripped my balls off.


--------------------
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Invisibleagar
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: micro]
    #3519486 - 12/19/04 02:33 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

:eek: I bet that was a CHEWY sumbitch :shake:

Did you ever find your "balls"? :grin:


--------------------

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Invisibleagar
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: franco_on]
    #3519493 - 12/19/04 02:38 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

This is an EASY substrate, that results in POTENT shrooms.

IF YOU HAVE A PC = quasi/compost SYNTHETIC BULK SUBSTRATE.

Finely chopped ground aged /leached horse manure & presoaked finely chopped wheat straw, fortified with a small percentage of home ground BRF & some pre/soaked PC?ed WBS, as a delayed nutrient - source, with a little verm added -to increase its moisture retention capacity.

No exacting magic formula.
For instance, a 5 or 10 gallon size tote tub w/lid. Fill halfway with aged chopped (as fine as you can get it) horse manure. About a 20% portion of pre/soaked finely chopped wheat straw (the fine the better). A couple pounds of home ground BRF. 3 or 4 quarts of pre/soaked PC?ed millet based WBS (PC?ed will not germinate). About a gallon size volume of vermiculite. Just toss it all in & mix well.

When you want to use it, take out however much you intend to use & add spring water until at field capacity (meaning - when you squeeze it - just a few drops of moisture - drip from it). Then PC the prepared mix (@ 15 psi 60 - 70 minutes) in a autoclave, turkey or tinfoil baking bag.

Allow to cool to room temp & spawn ASAP (sooner the better) @ about 15 to 20 % rate with colonized WBS.

Saran wrap top of container, poke a some pinholes in Saran wrap (for gas exchange), then cover container top with aluminum foil applied loose over top & bent over edges a few inches (to keep it in darkness - but still allow some gas exchange).

That is a simple inexpensive bulk blend, that requires no science, or brain surgery to make. If you can find the ingredients (which isn?t tough, if you are tenacious & look for them).

Incubated & 80/85F & high rh, so it will not dehydrate. Once fully colonized, case with pasteurized or PC?ed 50/50 Verm - Coir mix , with sprinkle of finely crushed oyster shell (chicken grit - think feed store) to balance & maintain ph of casing mix.


--------------------

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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: agar]
    #3519613 - 12/19/04 04:54 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Fruiting in higher temperatures can affect potency as well, in negative way....


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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3519766 - 12/19/04 07:38 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

check it out.



from this, one can infer that glucose and nitrogen are key factors for high potency.

Edited by Hermes_br (12/20/04 04:29 AM)

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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: Hermes_br]
    #3519990 - 12/19/04 10:16 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

yep people always talk about strains being very poten or much more potent then others.
Its more circumstances and the way they are grown and stored after harvest which influences potency.
All IMHO but I think that potency may vary slightly between strains (and between Isolated strains of the same variety) but most off all it is the grower who has most influence on it.


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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: Hermes_br] * 1
    #3520181 - 12/19/04 11:18 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

the whole thing..


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: potency of mushrooms grown on straw [Re: blahblahblah]
    #3520341 - 12/19/04 12:21 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I know that regular grasses contain indolamines, the precursor to all of the indole substances. I've personall found that using a cow manure / yard clipping compost to work fantastic when mixed with straw at about a 1:3 ratio (1 part compost to three parts straw). With PF cakes 3-5 grams were required to result in a potent trip, with straw/compost I've done 1.5 grams and had a level 3-5 trip. I really feel that straw and bovnie excrement is the way to go. Anyone know where I could find an analysis of the indoleamine or tryptophan content in regular straw?


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