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Offlineamanita3
Rumplestiltskin
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 69
Loc: High Desert
Last seen: 21 years, 5 months
FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE
    #1221510 - 01/15/03 12:48 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Noticed at http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ -- http://www.gooff.com/news/read.asp?ID=1754THE FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVEBy: Robert Gaylon Ross, Sr.January 15, 2003 Globalization
The conspiracy facts are that Elite inner circle members of the Bilderbergs (BB), Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), and Trilateral Commission (TC) are conspiring to politically and economically dominate the entire world under their New World Order, more recently called Globalization, or Global Union, Global Economy, Global Order, Global Environment, and like terms. When President G.H.W. Bush used the term New World Order in several of his speeches, it aroused suspicion and concern among the public. So, the Elite selected a generic term "Globalization" to use, and now Americans are no longer alarmed, because the business world uses this term daily, so it must not be so frightening. But, you cannot change a tiger's stripes. We're still talking about the New World Order.

American Union

The Elite plan to create the American Union by the year 2005. This will include all of the nations of North, Central and South America and the Caribbean Islands, and will function just like the present European Union. There will be only one monetary system, one central bank, one (unelected) governing body, one military force, one judicial system, no borders, and no Constitution and Bill of Rights. The Elite have invented a new term for expanded NAFTA, which they now call FTAA, or Free Trade Area of the Americas. The Council of the Americas, at the Quebec City conference in March, 2001, stated very clearly that they plan to complete the FTAA by the year 2005.

Vice President Dick Cheney was thanked for his remarks at the Council of the Americas conference on May 6, 2002, by founder and Honorary Chairman, David Rockefeller. Cheney said that the FTAA would be completed by January, 2005.

(Reference paragraph 18 of Cheney's speech at http://207.21.242.176/coa/events/2002-CheneySpeech.html and

Paragraph 12 of Otto Reich's speech at http://207.21.242.176/coa/events/2002-ReichSpeech.html)

It is obvious that they are really talking about the American Union which they plan to complete by 2005. That's just over two years away, my friends (as of mid November, 2002). Just when are you planning to get concerned?

The American Union follows the first step, the European Union, in the Elite's plan to control the entire world. Next will be the Asian Union, the African Union, and the Soviet Union, all to be completed between the years 2010 and 2015. This is not my speculation, it's their stated plans, as detailed in a UN document titled "Our Global Neighborhood" (available in any bookstore, on special order).

Venezuela Resists the American Union

Since President Hugo Chavez took office on February 2, 1999, the common people of Venezuela have backed him and his reforms. His strong will may just be a stumbling block to the completion of the American Union. The CIA has backed coup attempts to oust this radical leader, and the public has turned out by the thousands to protest these attempts. (http://www.narconews.com/)

Fast Track Legislation

On August 6, 2002, President Bush signed into law the Trade Act of 2002 (or fast track legislation). This is also referred to as Trade Promotion Authority (TPA). This means that he can complete the American Union on schedule, because Congress will now only be allowed an up or down vote on treaties that he presents. The Elite will publicly shame and humiliate anyone in Congress who votes against their treaties. They have reduced their opposition greatly by making sure that Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, and Congressmen Earl Hilliard, and Bob Barr were defeated in recent primaries. They had already ousted Jim Trafficant earlier. Congressman Ron Paul is next on their list.

Senate Majority Leader

Now we really know why Senator Trent Lott was replaced. Not because he made an improper statement (and it was improper), but because he was NOT a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. The Elite need to do many things within the next two years in order to complete the American Union, so they MUST have one of their own heading the U.S. Senate. The perfect replacement is Senator William (Bill) H. Frist, who was made a member of the CFR just this year. Did they make him a member because they knew that he would be the likely replacement for Trent Lott? Very likely.

Success out of Fear

"Today Americans would be outraged if U. N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all people of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government." - Henry Kissinger, in an address to the Bilderberg meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992. Transcribed using a concealed tape recording made by one of the Swiss delegates. Henry Kissinger is an inner-circle member of the Bilderbergs, Council on Foreign Relations, and Trilateral Commission, and a long-time right-hand-man of David Rockefeller, who aspires to be the Czar of the Global Union. Only Rockefeller has attended more Bilderberg meetings than Kissinger.

Terrorism

Is the current fear of terrorist what Kissinger was talking about? All of the evidence is not in yet linking the Elite to the Trade Center and Pentagon tragedies, but you can rest assured that they are using these crashes and terrorist threats to tighten up, and eliminate many of our rights that are guaranteed by our Constitution and Bill of Rights. The next step is to destroy the Second Amendment to our Constitution - our right to private ownership of firearms.

Bush had appointed Kissinger to head up the commission to investigate the 9-11 terrorism tragedy. However, he withdrew from this position when the law required that he reveal his customer list at Kissinger & Associates. Kissinger is under indictment from several nations for his past crimes, including Italy, Chile, Spain, France and possibly others. He cannot travel to these nations without being arrested and brought to trial.

Gun Regulation

Amendment II to the U.S. Constitution

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

A major obstacle to the completion of the American Union is the fact that we have the right to private ownership of firearms. No dictator has ever taken control of his country without first confiscating the citizens guns. The Elite know this, so they have created the organization called "The Department of Homeland Security", which was formed with the expressed purpose of defending this nation against terrorist attacks from the outside. In reality, this is the beginning of a "police state", which will be used to "handle" the militias that will protest the confiscation of firearms owned by Americans. Every time that a firearm is used in an incident, the mainstream news media, and several members of Congress, such as Senator Dianne Feinstein (BB & TC), demand that we have much more restrictive control of weapons.

Will we find out twenty years from now that the "DC-Area Sniper" was actually a member of one of the CIA's black-operations organizations, or was under CIA mind control as he shot his victims? There is no doubt that Timothy McVeigh was under CIA mind control when he bombed the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City.

Australia was once a penal colony for the British Empire, so many of the citizens of this nation are descendents of convicted criminals. Most U.S. citizens are not aware of the fact that Australia immediately outlawed private ownership of firearms after Martin Bryant, a so-called "mad murderer", killed 35 and wounded another eighteen people on the public streets of Port Author, Tasmania, in April 28, 1996, using an AR-15, .223 cal. assault rifle. Within twelve months after the outlawing of guns were passed by the Australian government, 640,381 guns were bought off the streets at the cost of over $500 million, Australian. Twelve months later, a study was made of the effects of such radical gun control, with the following results:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%.
Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%.
Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44%.
In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%!
The steady decrease in homicides-with-firearms that occurred during the previous 25 years became an increase in the last 12 months.
The steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-firearms that occurred during the previous 25 years became an increase in the last 12 months.
There has been a dramatic increase in breakins-and-assaults-of-the-elderly.
At the time of the ban, the Prime Minister said "self-defense is not a reason for owning a firearm".
From 1910 to present, homicides in Australia have averaged about 1.8-per-100,000 or lower, a safe society by any standard.
The ban has destroyed Australia's standings in some international sport shooting competitions.
The membership of the Australian Sports Shooting Association has increased by 200% in response to the ban and in an attempt to organize
against further controls, which are expected.
Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to explain why no improvement in "safety" has been observed after such monumental effort and expense was successfully expended in "ridding society of guns". Their response has been to "wait longer".

During the years 2001 and 2002, armed robberies, Australia wide, increased 34.1% over the period just before the elimination of private ownership of firearms.

Concentration Camps

The Elite have already established "concentration camps" on military bases in the U.S. to house the militia members and other protesting citizens once they have outlawed private ownership of weapons.

Los Angeles Times, Wednesday, 14 August, 2002

Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft's announced desire for camps for U.S. citizens he deems to be "enemy combatants" has moved him from merely being a political embarrassment to being a constitutional menace.

Ashcroft's plan, disclosed last week but little publicized, would allow him to order the indefinite incarceration of U.S. citizens and summarily strip them of their constitutional rights and access to the courts by declaring them enemy combatants.

Martial Law

The Elite cannot accomplish their American Union (New World Order) without declaring Martial Law. In order to justify such a drastic measure, there must be a major crisis, such as a violent and widespread internal dissent or national opposition against a U.S. military invasion abroad, resistance to the outlawing of ownership of guns by U.S. citizens, or a major financial crisis. We are now on the verge of all of the above, with the impending invasion of Iraq, constant demands for tighter gun control to stop terrorist acts, and the Wall Street melt down. Opponents of this action would without doubt file civil action to stop Martial Law from being enacted, which means that it would doubtlessly end up in the U.S. Supreme Court. You might surmise then that this court would rule in our favor, until you learn that three sitting judges on this court are members of the CFR; Stephen G. Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sandra Day O'Connor. This is not a majority of the nine justices, so within the next three to twelve months at least two sitting justices will retire, giving President Bush the chance to nominate replacements from the CFR. You might say that the chances of this happening are slim, until you learn that during the last change in this court, on the short-list of five candidates, "only" CFR members were considered for the vacated position.

Spying on U.S. Citizens

There is now a proposal to open all snail-mail sent to Congress, digitize it, and make it available to the recipient by E-mail. The stated purpose of doing this is to protect members of Congress from anthrax, and to save their staff time in opening the mail. The REAL reason is to snoop the correspondence to see what is inside. All electronic means of correspondence are now being monitored by NSA's operation ECHELON. Once they have digitized the snail-mail, there will be no secrets between members of Congress and their constituents. They now snoop every electronic transmission (fax, E-mail, telephone, Telex, radio, etc.) by the N.S.A.'s Operation ECHELON. For details check out the following web sites: (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/ECHELON/echelon.html) and (http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pspoole/echelon.html)

Now they are considering establishing a spy agency to monitor all U.S. citizens, just like the MI-5 spy agency does in Great Britain. This group of spooks will probably be positioned within the new Homeland Security Agency.

The National Security Act of 1947 established the CIA, and prohibited it's operations within the United States. However, the CIA was granted legal authority to spy on U.S. citizens by Executive Order 12333, dated Dec. 4, 1981, signed by Ronald Reagan. This E.O. reads: Article 1.8 (c) Conduct counterintelligence activities outside the United States and, without assuming or performing any internal security functions, conduct counterintelligence activities within the United States in coordination with the FBI as required by procedures agreed upon by the Director of Central Intelligence and the Attorney General; Article (i) Conduct such administrative and technical support activities within and outside the United States as are necessary to perform the functions described in sections (a) through (h) above, including procurement and essential cover and proprietary arrangements. (http://www.cia.gov/cia/information/eo12333.html)

Nanobots

Now, you are going to say that I've really gone crazy! But, what if the Elite invented a very small robot, or nanobot, and injected it into your bloodstream when you get your next injection, and when the time is right, they send a signal to your body activating these little devils to do their programmed duty? This duty could be either beneficial or detrimental - who knows? There are frequent scares about anthrax and other biological agents threatening our lives. Could this be an opportunity to inject these nanobots into your bloodstream? Now if you don't believe me, do a web search on Nanobots, or check out one of these sites: (http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/review/crh275.htm) or (http://www.spacedaily.com/news/nanotech-02a.html) or (http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/expressnews/articles/news.cfm?p_ID=2275)

Bohemian Club

Many of the Elite leaders are members of the Bohemian Club, who meet annually at the Bohemian Grove in Northern California, where they worship their Moloch, in the form of a giant concrete owl, as they march around the sacrificial table in their medieval robes, uttering their pagan chants. Alex Jones secretly took a video camera into one of the Bohemian Grove meetings, and recorded a very disturbing ritual. Check it out at: (http://www.infowars.com)

International Bankers as the Ruling Class

There are several terms used to describe those in the inner circle who direct the Elite, such as central bankers, international banking families, world banking cabal, and the like, but the two families who really are in charge are the Rockefellers, headed by David Rockefeller, and the Western European and United Kingdom's House of Rothschild. In 1998 the Rockefeller family was worth $11.48 trillion, and the Rothschild family was worth over $100 trillion. When they need money, they just print it. They create their money out of thin air, and it is backed by nothing. You cannot trade it in for gold or silver. These International bankers own the Central Banks in every nation in the world, except the so-called seven rogue nations. The U.S. State Dept. defines "rogue nations" as any nation that harbors of supports terrorists. The present nations that meet this definition are/were: Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Cuba, North Korea, and Sudan. There is no evidence that Cuba or North Korea harbor or support terrorist, so the only common thread between these countries is that none of them allow the International bankers to control their central banks.

Oil & Gas

The world's total oil reserves are around 928 billion barrels (Gb), with about 63% resting within the Middle Eastern nations. Saudi Arabia has about 280 Gb (about 25-30%) of this oil in its reserves, with about 8.3 million barrels a day (mbd) of production, while Iraq has about 102 Gb in reserve (or about 11% of the worlds total supply) and produces about 2 million barrels a day. The typical cost to lift a barrel of oil to the surface in the Middle East is about $3.00 per barrel, while the cost to lift a barrel in Iraq is about $1.00 per barrel. According to Mike Ruppert, of "From The Wilderness" newsletter, the total world "conventional" production of oil peaked around the year 2000. As new wells are completed, many others are abandoned for lack of economic production. The world's consumption rate, in 2001, was 22 Gb/year, and the current discovery rate is about 6 Gb/year. There is no significant substitute for oil on the horizon. This means that whoever controls oil, controls the rest of the world. As the available supply diminishes, the price will climb (a simple supply/demand reality).

Global demand for oil is increasing by between 1.5 and 2 mbd each year, and could grow from the current 77 mbd to 120 mbd within the next 20 years. OPEC production is expected to grow from 28 mbd (in 1998), to 60 mbd by 2020. Saudi Arabia supplies around 1.7 mbd of the roughly 10 mbd imported into the U. S. at present, and sells its oil for about $1.00 per barrel less to the U.S. than it charges other nations of the world.

Russia is gaining on Saudi Arabia as the world's greatest producer. In 1996 the Soviets production amounted to about 7 mbd, but just before the Soviet collapse, they produced around 12.5 mbd. The estimated Caspian Sea reserves have been disappointing after recent studies. There were a number of pipelines planned in order to deliver this oil to the consumers.

Bosnia

The war in Bosnia was simply to gain a possible route for an oil and/or gas pipeline from the Caspian Sea oil fields to the West to a salt water port.

Afghanistan

The war in Afghanistan was simply to establish a route for oil and/or gas from the Caspian Sea oil fields through Pakistan to a salt water port to the South, and oil and/or gas pipelines from these same fields to China.

(http://www.worldpress.org/specials/pp/pipelines.htm)

Iraq

The current plans to invade Iraq are simply to gain control of its massive oil reserves. When Sadam Hussein says this, the Elite's puppet news media scoff at him, and keep on demanding that the reason is to destroy his weapons of mass destruction.

Is it a coincidence that President Bush I and II, and Vice President Cheney are from the oil industry? In fact, Bush I was partners with Saddam Hussein in the oil business before the Gulf War.

Skull & Bones Society

One stepping stone into these secret societies is the Skull & Bones Society at Yale University, as well depicted in the movie "The Skulls". Who's Who of the Elite names all of the members of this shadow government, and reveals where they work, the secret societies that they belong to, and their job titles, so that you can see the stranglehold that they have on our federal government, the mainstream news media, industry, labor unions, universities, foundations, the Supreme Court, and all facets of the financial world. Senator Prescot Bush, President G.H.W. Bush and President G.W. Bush were all members of the Skull & Bones Society, a stepping stone into the main secret societies.

Freedom of the Press

BILL of Rights - 1st Amendment
Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So, Congress cannot destroy freedom of the press, but the Elite can, and have done so since the beginning of the twentieth century. If they are to be successful in establishing their New World Order, or Global Union, in enhancing their wealth and securing this wealth, they must maintain absolute secrecy concerning their organizations and activities. Therefore they must control the newspapers, news magazines and the television networks. Then, they must swear all their members to absolute secrecy. They can easily enforce this secrecy by threatening, or implying threats of, financial ruin to, and character destruction of, anyone who divulges the contents of any of their meetings, or discussing their activities.


Article II of the by-laws of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) states: ?It is an express condition of membership in the Council, to which condition every member accedes by virtue of his or her membership, that members will observe such rules, and regulations as may be prescribed from time to time by the Board of Directors concerning the conduct of Council meetings or the attribution of statements made therein, and that any disclosure, public, or other action by a member in contravention thereof may be regarded by the Board of Directors in its sole discretion as grounds for termination or suspension of membership pursuant to Article I of the by-laws.?

Is it not surprising then that the anchors of all of the major television networks remember this by-law very vividly as they report the daily "news". Members of the secret societies who bring us this "news" are: Peter Jennings (BB), Dianne Sawyer (Director of CFR '98-99), Garrick Utley (Dir. of CFR '93-), Barbara Walters (CFR), George Will (TC), Lesley Stahl (CFR), Ed Bradley (CFR), Marvin Kalb (CFR), Dan Rather (CFR), Jesse Jackson (CFR), Bernard Kalb (CFR), Frank Sesno (CFR), Tom Brokaw (CFR), John Chancellor (CFR), Elizabeth Drew (CFR), Bill Moyers (BB), George Stephanopolos (BB, CFR), Michael Beschloss (CFR), and inducted in 2001-2002 - Paula Zahn (CFR). Other prominent Elite in TV who are/were: Roone Arledge (CFR), Laurence Tisch (CFR), Thomas Wyman (CFR), Thomas Murphy (CFR), David Brinkley (CFR), Carl Zelnick (CFR), Barbara Cochran (CFR), Roland Evans (CFR), Joan Richman (CFR), Joan Cooney (CFR), Wyatt Johnson (CFR, TC), Carl T. Rowan (TC), Jane Pfeiffer (CFR), Herbert Schlosser (CFR), Robert Frederick (CFR), Sharon Rockefeller (CFR), and Michael Eisner (CFR). You can find out who else in the mainstream news media belong to the secret groups, BB, CFR and TC, in our first book, "Who's Who of the Elite".

Neither Sam Donaldson, nor Cokie Roberts (ABC's This Week, Sundays) were members of the CFR, so to make sure that they had control, the Elite replaced them with George Stephanopolos (BB, CFR). Now we see more members of the CFR on his show.

An example of how the Elite deny us the facts was during the 32nd Washington Conference of the Council of the Americas, held May 5 - 7, 2002. I was watching CNN at the beginning of the hour when they show brief 1-2 second snippits of what will be covered in the following hour. On this occasion they showed David Rockefeller shaking Secretary of State Colin Powell's hand after introducing him as the next speaker. I watched CNN for the next 3-4 hours without seeing this event being covered. Some CNN executive saw this on his TV monitor, and probably ran to the control room and told them NOT to show this event. All mainstream news media have been carefully instructed to NEVER cover any event that David Rockefeller, or the Rothschild family are involved in. Now, I ask - why is this?

You can read Colin Powell's speech at: http://207.21.242.176/coa/events/2002-PowellSpeech.html

Voting Scams

Our current voting procedures are a sham. In an effort to speed up the vote counting process (or so "they" would like you to believe), they have, in most instances, gone to computer assisted voting. Once the votes have been digitized, they are easily manipulated, and in most cases a recount is impossible. Is this how the Elite have swung the 2002 Federal elections to favor the Republicans? Now they control the White House, The Senate and the House of Representatives. Is this by accident, or was this accomplished by rigging the voting process?

(http://truthout.com/docs_02/09.21G.landes.crooks.htm)

Senator Paul Wellstone's Death

Was Senator Paul Wellstone's death an accident? Many, including some members of Congress, are concerned. If you have not learned it by now, there are many in our elected offices who will do ANYTHING to reach their goals, or to protect their interests.

(http://nuance.dhs.org/lbo-talk/0012/0044.html), (http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2000/12/irp-001201-col.htm), (http://www.counterpunch.org/pipermail/counterpunch-list/2000-December/004162), (http://www.americas.org/news/nir/20001210_herbicide_douses_u_s_senator.asp)

Legislative Oversight

Many of our nation?s problems are caused by the lack of adequate Legislative oversight. This failing has gotten worse since around 1980, and regardless of which party is in control. Below are my suggestions of what they should be investigating:

1. Great Depression of 1929 - The Federal Reserve System deliberately caused the ?29 depression by manipulating the U.S. money supply. From 1915 to early 1929, the money supply was very loose. You could get a loan to do almost anything. The Standard & Poor?s Index followed the same pattern during this same period. Both went into free-fall from ?29 to ?33. The Fed drastically tightened the money supply, and loans were almost unavailable, resulting in a panic. Unable to pay their massive debts, many committed suicide. Those who try to cover for the Fed say that the depression was caused by the Glass-Spiegal Act, which is far from the truth.

2. The Attack on Pearl Harbor - President Franklin D. Roosevelt knew that the Japanese Navy was heading for Hawaii twelve days before the attack on Pearl Harbor, and he failed to warn the military stationed on this island. His purpose was to create an excuse to declare war against Japan during WW-II. Expert witness ? Gregory Douglas, author of "Gestapo Chief".

3. The Vietnam War ? The U.S. State Dept. said that at 3:40 a.m. EDT (3:40 p.m. Saigon time), August 2, 1964, the destroyer Maddox, on patrol in the Gulf of Tonkin, reported that it was "being approached by high speed craft with apparent intention of torpedo attack. Intend open fire in necessary self defense." (Message 020740Z to Commander Seventh Fleet; Department of State, Vietnam Working Group Files: Lot 72 D 219, DeSoto Patrols, August) Twenty-seven minutes later, the Maddox reported that it was being attacked by three North Vietnamese patrol craft and had opened fire. (Message 020807Z to Commander Seventh Fleet; ibid.) In the ensuing engagement, the Maddox and aircraft from the U.S.S. Ticonderoga damaged two of the patrol craft, which retreated to the North, and left one dead in the water. Reports on the incident reached Washington shortly after 4 a.m. U. S. military escalation was justified on the basis of the Gulf of Tonkin attack against U. S. ships. We know today that this incident was fabricated purely to deceive the American people in order to win their support for additional military action. Expert witnesses ? 1970?1971 Emmy Award winning, CBS?s "60 Minutes" anchor, Morley Safer and his producer, Joe Wershba, blew the whistle on the phony Gulf of Tonkin attack tale, the start of the domino effect in Vietnam.

4. Operation Northwoods ? March 13, 1962, L. L. Limnitzer, Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, proposed that a bevy of lies be spread upon the U.S. public to justify the invasion of Cuba. Typical lies that were to be spread:
??.We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba.
?We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in Cuba waters
?.We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington. ?We could sink a boatload of Cubans en route to Florida (real or simulated). ?.Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement?
?Use of MIG type aircraft by US pilots could provide additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type planes would be useful as complimentary actions. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were to announce such fact.
? Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft could appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the government of Cuba.
? It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil aircraft??
Luckily, this plan was shot down by President Kennedy before it could take place, but this was a clear example of the top military commander at the time, Limnitzer, losing control of his senses and risking war with the Russians. Expert witness ? James Bamford, author of "Body of Secrets".

5. Assassination of President John F. Kennedy ? This tragic murder directly involved Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson, Director of the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover, and many other prominent men of the time. The Warren Commission was used to keep Congress from doing it?s own investigation.
Expert witness ? Robert Gaylon Ross, Sr., author of "The Elite Serial Killers of Lincoln, JFK, RFK & MLK".

6. Assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy ? Those involved in the JFK killing were also involved in this murder. Lyndon Johnson made sure that Congress looked the other way on this one as well.
Expert witness ? Robert Gaylon Ross, Sr., author of "The Elite Serial Killers of Lincoln, JFK, RFK & MLK".

7. The assassination of Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. ? The same people who planned the killings of the Kennedy brothers were also directly involved in the murder of King. J. Edgar Hoover?s efforts were exposed by the Senator Frank Church Select Committee to Study Government Operations in 1976, which laid out Hoover?s and the FBI?s efforts to discredit MLK. Expert witness ? Robert Gaylon Ross, Sr., author of "The Elite Serial Killers of Lincoln, JFK, RFK & MLK".

8. The Gulf War ? Ambassador April Glaspie told Saddam Hussein - ?But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait.? This was President George Herbert Walker Bush?s direct invitation for Iraq to invade Kuwait, so that he could become a hero by saving Kuwait and Saudi Arabia from the invading Iraq army.
"THE NEW YORK TIMES INTERNATIONAL" SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 1990, quoted from the transcripts of the meeting between Hussein and Glaspie.

9. War with Yugoslavia ? The Elite needed to change the government of Yugoslavia so that they could run pipelines from the Caspian Sea oil fields to the West to a salt water port.
Expert witnesses - William F. Hagel, author of "The Hidden History of the War Against Yugoslavia".

10. War in Afghanistan ? The Elite needed to change the government of Afghanistan so that they could run pipelines from the Caspian Sea oil fields to China, and South to a salt water port, without going through Iran. The wars in both Yugoslavia and Afghanistan were necessary to protect the interests of big oil, big banking, money laundering, and illegal drug trafficking.
Expert witness ? Michael C. Ruppert, Publisher, "From The Wilderness" newsletter.

11. The 9-11 attacks on America - There is no evidence (yet) that the Elite were directly involved in the 9-11 attacks, but they certainly have used this event to destroy our Bill of Rights and Constitution. Expert witness ? Michael C. Ruppert, Publisher, "From The Wilderness newsletter".

12. Executive Orders ? The powers of the Presidency have been greatly enhanced through the use of Executive Orders, to the great loss of control by Congress. Laws must originate in Congress, not the White House.

13. The Secret Elite have taken over the U.S. ? Members of the Bilderbergs, Council on Foreign Relations, and Trilateral Commission have quietly taken over almost all key positions within our government, the news media, the Labor Unions, academia, banking, foundations, and industry. Their goal is to subvert the Bill of Rights and Constitution, to destroy the sovereignty of this nation, and to bring it under the control of the Global Union. Those who participate in this conspiracy are committing Treason. Expert witness ? Robert Gaylon Ross, Sr., author of "Who?s Who of the Elite".

"Today Americans would be outraged if U. N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all people of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government." - Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberg Conference at Evian, France, May 21, 1992. Transcribed from a tape recording made by one of the Swiss delegates. Henry Kissinger has attended most of the Bilderberg Conferences, and is a long-time member of the Council on Foreign Relations, and Trilateral Commission.

It is absolutely necessary that both houses of Congress hold extensive hearings on the above, as soon as possible, and before the United States becomes the second phase of Globalization - the American Union.

Quotes That You Should Remember

The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushes its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks. . . will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. . . the issuing power should be taken from the banks, and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. - Thomas Jefferson

History records that the money-changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent plans possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money, and its issuance. - James Madison

I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me, and causes me to tremble for the safety of our country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the republic is destroyed. The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency, and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government, and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principals, the taxpayers will be saving immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master, and become the servant of humanity. - Abraham Lincoln

If Congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations. - Andrew Jackson

The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astonishing piece of slight of hand ever invented. Banking was conceived in iniquity, and born in sin. Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again. Take this great power away from them, and all great fortunes like mine will disappear. And, they ought to disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in. But if you want to continue to be the slaves of the bankers, and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money, and control credit. - Sir John Stamp (former governor of the Bank of England)

No man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent. . . . These United States of America can never be destroyed from forces outside its borders. If America falls, it will fall from within. Brought down by apathy. When good people do nothing, Anarchy reigns.
- Abraham Lincoln in a 1854 letter to Congress

We the people are the rightful masters of Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

The aim of socialism is not only to abolish the present division of mankind into small states, and all national isolation, not only to bring the nations closer to each other, but also to merge them. The merging of states is inevitable.
- Lenin in his Imperialism and the Right to Self-determination

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ? Ephesians (6: 12)

Expose the works of darkness. - Ephesians (5:11)

With this knowledge, you will be better prepared to interpret the news media's reporting, and the governments actions as time moves on toward the completion of the American Union.

You be the Judge visit http://www.4rie.com

CLICK BELOW FOR ADDITIONAL ARTICLES

Written by Robert Gaylon Ross, Sr.--Posted 1/15/2003
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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: amanita3]
    #1221681 - 01/15/03 02:09 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Want to buy a bridge? I have one for sale. It's in Brooklyn.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Anonymous

Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: amanita3]
    #1222392 - 01/15/03 11:12 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for posting that. Excuse my ignorance, but how is it that with guns outlawed there is more violence?

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Offlinethetom
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: ]
    #1222398 - 01/15/03 11:19 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

yeah here in australia guns are outlawed and the ammount of gun related deaths has actually gone down, but hey maybe were just werid  :smirk: 


--------------------
I dont reccomend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but they have always worked for me.

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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: thetom]
    #1222445 - 01/16/03 12:12 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Same in UK - shhhsh! Dont tell pinky or luvdem! -  :grin: 


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: thetom]
    #1222488 - 01/16/03 01:01 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

****yeah here in australia guns are outlawed and the ammount of gun related deaths has actually gone down, but hey maybe were just werid ****

Violent crime went up though i believe. (i could be mistaken)


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineDr. Slavic
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1222609 - 01/16/03 02:24 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

In England crimes with guns increased after they were made illegal. Take the guns away from the peaceful citizens and the only ones left with guns are the criminals and the government. That scares the shit out of me.

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Anonymous

Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1222903 - 01/16/03 05:00 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Exactly, it's pretty narrow minded to only look at gun related deaths in this "war against freedom." If deaths by shooting go down but overall violent crime goes up, I'd hardly say that's an achievement.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: GazzBut]
    #1223388 - 01/16/03 09:14 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Same in UK - shhhsh! Dont tell pinky or luvdem! -



Not according to this guy, gun crimes have gone up....

"While we already have some of the toughest gun laws in the world, there has been an unacceptable increase in the flagrant use of guns in crime across the country," Home Secretary David Blunkett said. "Introducing a tough minimum sentence ... will send a clear message that serious, violent offending will invariably be dealt with in the strongest manner."

Same article.....
Many experts say firearms have flooded into Britain from the Balkans over the last decade. The number of crimes in which handguns were used increased by 9 percent in 2000-2001 from the previous fiscal year, and newspaper reports say government crime statistics due out later this week will show a further jump.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA68Y7UMAD.html

But don't let facts stand in the way.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (01/16/03 09:17 AM)

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: amanita3]
    #1223405 - 01/16/03 09:23 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

This is silly, and without any real basis.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineVoodoo Doll
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Phluck]
    #1223544 - 01/16/03 10:25 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

I never minded guns as a matter of fact I come from a hunting family we all own guns. I put my picture up in the Cill Out Zone wanna see... :grin:  

Edited by Voodoo Doll (01/16/03 10:26 AM)

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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: amanita3]
    #1223790 - 01/16/03 11:43 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Your right about all of that, but not the nanobots thing.

Call it a hunch but they have better technologys, then to just stick robots in people. I do believe however, in the future we will have to take a implant, or die.(in service to a false god of course :wink: )


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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Anonymous

Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: amanita3]
    #1223834 - 01/16/03 12:05 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Hi, I just did my own search on gun use figures since the stricter gun control laws came to Australia and I found an article out of National Territory University law department which says the statistics are out of context or and some are outright lies. It states the ABS (Australian Bureau of Statistics) figures which say murders are slightly down though attempted murders are slightly up and armed robberies that use a firearm are also down.

http://www.ntu.edu.au/faculties/lba/schools/Law/apl/blog/stories/liberties/12.htm

Most of the articles on the net that report an increase seem to report the bunk figures. I don't think the rest of the post is necessarily wrong.... Though while I have read some stuff on the internet about the illuminati and their control of world finance, and I believe the motives for war are different to what the American Govt says they are, and the terrorist spiel is obviously a crock, I dont know how much to believe of this big conspiracy theory partly because it is conspiracy theory.......... Scary to contemplate though.

Now that drug use goes up with prohibition I believe and the reasons for that are clear.:)


Edited by Eno_ (01/16/03 01:57 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: amanita3]
    #1223866 - 01/16/03 12:37 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

everyone...watch bowling for columbine. gives great perspectives on gun issues in the US.

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OfflinePenguin
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: ]
    #1223991 - 01/16/03 01:28 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

yea, do what sean says.


--------------------
The fear of loss is always greater than the desire for gain

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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Penguin]
    #1224001 - 01/16/03 01:32 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

I third, it was a great movie, a little skewed, but still great.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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OfflinePenguin
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Skikid16]
    #1224094 - 01/16/03 02:33 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Did anyone happen to catch Moore on Conan? He was talking about this war on Iraq is to deteer the American public away from homeland problems like the loss of thousands of jobs and the failing economy. He has lots to say. People want him to keep his yapper shut. This may become another " Steal This Book" scenerio.


--------------------
The fear of loss is always greater than the desire for gain

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1224102 - 01/16/03 02:36 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

"Your right about all of that, but not the nanobots thing."

You would know about these things first hand, I suppose.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Anonymous

Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: amanita3]
    #1224306 - 01/16/03 03:52 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Conspiracy theories are fun! I bet you're into all that NESARA bullshit too.

Does the gov't pull the wool over our eyes about a lot of things. Hell yeah. Do crackhead conspiracy theories like the NESARA shit discredit those who legitimately inform people about real deception taking place? I think so.

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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1224785 - 01/16/03 07:35 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

ok so it may have increased but whoose to say how much it would have increased if they had kept guns legal?

You know, would it have been successful at lowering gun crime as it is in the US?  :grin: 


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: GazzBut]
    #1224872 - 01/16/03 08:59 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

If you look you'll find several studies showing gun crime drops markedly in states where concealed carry laws are passed. Florida is a good example of this. A few years back carry permits in Florida were not easy to get. The Florida legislature passed what can be called "must issue" carry permit laws. The crime rate dropped. It's also easy to find stats showing the states that don't let you carry concealed have the highest gun crime rate.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1225142 - 01/17/03 01:30 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Ive changed my mind, I think guns should be legal. You cant really prohibit anything anyway, its just the same with drugs. So perhaps it is better out in the open, then maybe we can start moving on from the fear and paranoia that fuels the desire to carry them or we can have ourselves a good ole shoot out! :grin: 


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: GazzBut]
    #1226359 - 01/17/03 09:30 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fear and paranoia



I don't carry a gun because of fear and paranoia. I can one because it's a tool. Sort of like carrying a jack in case you get a flat. I'm 45 and have been carrying since I was 21. Never pulled it, hope to never need to. However, you can't use what you don't have with you.

Besides that, thanks to the 2nd ammendment.... I can!

And one of the best reason for gun ownership, they're fun.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1226865 - 01/17/03 12:39 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

And one of the best reason for gun ownership, they're fun.


I'm just curious how a gun is fun, I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I've just never owned, shot, or even held a gun, and I'm wondering what could be fun about a leathal weapon?
Quote:

Besides that, thanks to the 2nd ammendment.... I can!


Just because you can, does it mean you should?

I don't have a real problem with guns and gun owners, besides the fact that most seem to ignorant to admit that guns can and do cause problems, but if you are responsible with your firearms, more power (quite literally) to you.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Anonymous

Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Skikid16]
    #1226925 - 01/17/03 01:09 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

How can a gun, in itself cause any problems? Likewise, how can a drug cause a problem on its own? These are inanimate objects we're talking about, not anti-huminoid robotic destroyers.

If you were to go shooting, 99-1 chance you'd love it. I really can't think of anything I enjoy more than going up into the mountains and shooting.

Edited by stonedfish (01/17/03 01:10 PM)

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1227570 - 01/17/03 06:37 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Besides that, thanks to the 2nd ammendment

Still pushing this load luvvie? The 2nd amendment says nothing of the sort. Even the NRA knows that.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1227594 - 01/17/03 06:47 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Not according to this guy, gun crimes have gone up....

Try and put it into perspective. Gun crime in the UK accounts for around 0.003% of all crimes the police deal with. When you have a handful of crimes a year it's easy to produce alarming statistics. If 4 people die one year and there's a drug war the next year and 8 people die you could produce statistics saying "There has been a 100% rise in gun crime", however the average person would still be more likely to die from a meteorite falling on their head than being a victim of gun crime.

Legalise drugs and see what happens to gun crime when the gangsters have nothing left to shoot each other for.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,871132,00.html


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1227603 - 01/17/03 06:54 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

however the average person would still be more likely to die from a meteorite falling on their head than being a victim of gun crime.




Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Skikid16]
    #1227844 - 01/17/03 09:14 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

In Britain there are usually something less than 30 gun murders a year. There are 60 million people in the country. The odds are pretty astronomical.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1227864 - 01/17/03 09:44 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Not as astronomical "getting hit in the head by a meteorite".


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1227950 - 01/18/03 12:31 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Stop the lying Al. I've given you links to show you. I can't help it if you either haven't read them or just simply can't understand them.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1227959 - 01/18/03 12:42 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

No shit Alpo? Gun crime would go down if drugs were legal? Think that one up all by yourself did you? It would also go down if you could walk up to a pile of money or jewels and just help yourself. It would also go down if the good fairy came down and waved her magic wand and peace spread out across the world.

The fact is that the great experiment in gun control in your country has not, and will not, bring about the hoped for decrease in gun crime.

Quote:

the average person would still be more likely to die from a meteorite falling on their head than being a victim of gun crime.



Maybe in the 25 or so % of the globe Great Britian controlled.
Care to back that up with a link?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (01/18/03 12:44 AM)

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OfflineViveka
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: amanita3]
    #1228628 - 01/18/03 09:09 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

"In 1998 the Rockefeller family was worth $11.48 trillion, and the Rothschild family was worth over $100 trillion. When they need money, they just print it. They create their money out of thin air, and it is backed by nothing. You cannot trade it in for gold or silver. "

I've got news for you pal. The gold standard went away a long time ago. The wealth in this country is all based on debt, between people and banks, and banks and the government.
The Rockefellers and Rothschild's have more clever ways of obtaining and keeping wealth than just printing more money. If they were to do this, the value of their money (and everyones) would decrease.

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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: amanita3]
    #1229038 - 01/18/03 12:17 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

In 1998 the Rockefeller family was worth $11.48 trillion, and the Rothschild family was worth over $100 trillion.



Bullshit. The richest man in the world is Bill Gates. He had close to 100 BILLION, sadly for him he has sunk to the 60 BILLION range. (poor bastard) NO-ONE has a trillion dollars. No family has a trillion dollars.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1229858 - 01/18/03 06:57 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

I've given you links to show you

You've really got to start reading something other than NRA sites. Even the NRA arn't stupid enough to take their interpretation of the second amendment to the courts because they know they would lose.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1230138 - 01/18/03 11:19 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Alpo, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.... so stay thirsty Al.

It has been taken to court. I provided the link to the decisions themselves. The actual written decisions by the courts, not to an NRA site.

Quit lying. For someone so quick to call others liars, you don't seem to mind doing it yourself.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1230226 - 01/19/03 01:31 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Nope, you found one redneck judge who went against the supreme court as far as I can remember. Certainly the NRA have never even attempted to take the second amendment to the supreme court as they know they havn't got a chance in hell of getting their interpretation taken seriously.

Try again  :smirk:


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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1230231 - 01/19/03 01:36 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Then you remember wrong.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1230361 - 01/19/03 04:09 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

You saying the supreme court agree with the NRA's interpretation of the second amendment?


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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1230393 - 01/19/03 04:43 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

I'm saying the ONLY ruling the Supreme Court has made AT ALL on the second ammendment was in US vs Miller, in which the decision was that SAWED OFF SHOTGUNS had no military use at the time and as such was not covered by the second ammendment. This decision is plainly wrong anyway, however they did not rule on the whether the ammendment applied to people or to the states. They have not made any other second ammendment rulings that I'm aware of. If you know of any post the link so I can read it.

Also, most constitutional scholars agree the second ammendment is an individual right.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1230445 - 01/19/03 05:21 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

"Every federal appeals court in the country, except two judges on the Emerson panel, has rejected the NRA view, and has held that the Second Amendment does not provide individuals with a right to possess firearms absent a relationship with a state militia. With today's actions by the Supreme Court, the gun lobby continues its unbroken string of defeats in Second Amendment challenges to gun laws."

http://www.bradycampaign.org/press/release.asp?Record=404


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Anonymous

Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1230556 - 01/19/03 06:10 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

And he quotes the Brady campaign. Alex, try searching for facts, not quotes from sources that are as ignorantly biased as you are.

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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Anonymous]
    #1230589 - 01/19/03 06:25 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Stonedfish, the George Bush fan with his finger on the facts  :smirk:

I thought i told you to remind me never to waste my time on you again?


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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1230819 - 01/19/03 08:24 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

"Gun Control" by the Quincy Punx

357 or sawed off shotgun
You've got a right to choose your weapon
Outlaw guns, only outlaws'll have 'em
While I can, I'm gonna go and get me some

-Chorus-
Want me to give up my gun?
You gotta pry it from my cold dead hand
Want me to give up my weapon?
Ya better be a better shot than I am

Gun control means hitting your target
Fuck with me, lets see how far you get
This is the time, this is the hour
For peace through superior fire power

-Repeat Chorus-

-Bridge- Guns dont kill people, I do! 4X

I've got my sixpack and my trusty handgun
Waiting around for world war three to come
Gotta have protection out on the freeway
The person with the biggest gun has got the right of way

-Repeat chorus- 2X
-Repeat second verse-
-Repeat bridge-



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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1230929 - 01/19/03 09:28 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

"For peace through superior fire power" ????????? :confused: 


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Always Smi2le

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Anonymous

Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1230972 - 01/19/03 09:57 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

I have a big stone wall to hide behind and shoot the Russians from in the event of WWIII.

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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1230987 - 01/19/03 10:03 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

So let's see Alpo....
The NRA is biased but the Brady Bunch isn't? Refused to hear a case is not the same as making a decision on a case. Do you even have a clue how many cases the Supreme Court doesn't hear each year simply because there isn't enough time?

Maybe the Brady Bunch thinks England controlled 75% of the earth as well.

Does the word "people" mean something different in this ammendment than it does in the rest? Also, languge experts have broken down the wording and come to the same opinion any thinking individual does, it's an individual right.

You are sadly obtuse.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (01/19/03 10:08 AM)

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1232069 - 01/19/03 06:15 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Does the NRA have any examples of federals courts backing their position? (except the two judges on the emerson panel?)

Does the word "people" mean something different in this ammendment than it does in the rest?

Unfortunately for you and the NRA, they also used the word "militia". That's something you can't wriggle out of and why the entire federals court and supreme court dismiss the NRA's ludicrous interpretation.


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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1232433 - 01/19/03 09:38 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Alpo, look up the definition of the word militia at the time of the writing of the bill of rights. If you take the time, which would surprise me since facts don't seem to phase you, you'll find every able bodied man was considered to be a member of the militia. Just because the definition is considered by the gun grabbers to mean the National Guard does not make it so. A lie is still a lie no matter how many times it's told.

mi?li?tia ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-lsh)
n.
An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.
A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency.
The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service.

reg?u?late ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rgy-lt)
tr.v. reg?u?lat?ed, reg?u?lat?ing, reg?u?lates
To control or direct according to rule, principle, or law.
To adjust to a particular specification or requirement: regulate temperature.
To adjust (a mechanism) for accurate and proper functioning.
To put or maintain in order: regulate one's eating habits.


Quote:

and why the entire federals court and supreme court dismiss the NRA's ludicrous interpretation.



You know that's wrong Alpo. Why do you continue to lie even after having been presented with the evidence? Is it so painful for you to admit you're wrong?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1232796 - 01/20/03 03:23 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Just because the definition is considered by the gun grabbers

The supreme court and every federal court in the land arn't really "gun grabbers" are they? They have the finest legal minds in the country working for them. A militia isn't the same thing as an individual no matter how many times you say it.

You know that's wrong Alpo.

Well, I asked you if the NRA's position had any backing from the supreme court or federal courts except the two judges on the emerson panel. I'm still waiting.


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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1234115 - 01/20/03 11:30 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

A militia isn't the same thing as an individual no matter how many times you say it.



I not the only one saying it. The Supreme Court did in US vs Miller.

I provided the links to the 1 (one) 2nd ammendment supreme court case. Try reading it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (01/20/03 03:00 PM)

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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1234275 - 01/20/03 12:57 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Since reading obviously isn't your strong point, here you go. If you don't believe me the US vs Miller decision is easily found online.

----------------------------

In United States v. Miller,\4\ the Court sustained a statute
requiring registration under the National Firearms Act of sawed-off shotguns. After reciting the original provisions of the Constitution
dealing with the militia, the Court observed that ``[w]ith obvious
purpose to assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness
of such forces the declaration and guarantee of the Second Amendment
were made. It must be interpreted with that end in view.''\5\ The
significance of the militia, the Court continued, was that it was
composed of ``civilians primarily, soldiers on occasion.'' It was upon
this force that the States could rely for defense and securing of the
laws, on a force that ``comprised all males physically capable of acting
in concert for the common defense,'' who, ``when called for service
. . . were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of
the kind in common use at the time.''\6\ Therefore, ``n the absence
of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a `shotgun
having a barrel of less than 18 inches in length' at this time has some
reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-
regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees
the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not
within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary
military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common
defense.''\7\
---------------------------------


Satisfied? Or do you wish to continue lying?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (01/20/03 01:01 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1234848 - 01/20/03 05:36 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Bullshit. The richest man in the world is Bill Gates. He had close to 100 BILLION, sadly for him he has sunk to the 60 BILLION range. (poor bastard) NO-ONE has a trillion dollars. No family has a trillion dollars.

The Rothschilds have a policy of not publishing their earnings. So it is possible that they are worth more than Gates. If you read about the companies they own accross the world, which includes the major banks in many countries, you would guess they would be worth quite a bit. Though since they dont publish their earnings, those figures on their worth must be an estimate.

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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1234903 - 01/20/03 05:56 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

LOL. Are you that desperate? Do you have any other support for your case or is one renegade decision your only hope?

Try a few facts. I know they're alien to you, but with a bit of study you might just understand.

The Second Amendment in the Courts

As a matter of law, the meaning of the Second Amendment has been settled since the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in U.S. v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939). In that case, the Court ruled that the "obvious purpose" of the Second Amendment was to "assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness" of the state militia.

Since Miller, the Supreme Court has addressed the Second Amendment twice more, upholding New Jersey's strict gun control law in 1969 and upholding the federal law banning felons from possessing guns in 1980. Furthermore, twice ? in 1965 and 1990 ? the Supreme Court has held that the term "well-regulated militia" refers to the National Guard.

In the early 1980s, the Supreme Court addressed the Second Amendment issue again, after the town of Morton Grove, Illinois, passed an ordinance banning handguns (making certain reasonable exceptions for law enforcement, the military, and collectors). After the town was sued on Second Amendment grounds, the Illinois Supreme Court and the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that not only was the ordinance valid, but there was no individual right to keep and bear arms under the Second Amendment (Quillici v. Morton Grove) . In October 1983, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear an appeal of this ruling, allowing the lower court rulings to stand.

In 1991, former Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren Burger referred to the Second Amendment as "the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word ?fraud,' on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.. .[the NRA] ha(s) misled the American people and they, I regret to say, they have had far too much influence on the Congress of the United States than as a citizen I would like to see ? and I am a gun man." Burger also wrote, "The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon...[S]urely the Second Amendment does not remotely guarantee every person the constitutional right to have a ?Saturday Night Special' or a machine gun without any regulation whatever. There is no support in the Constitution for the argument that federal and state governments are powerless to regulate the purchase of such firearms..."

Since the Miller decision, lower federal and state courts have addressed the meaning of the Second Amendment in more than thirty cases. In every case, up until March of 1999 (see below), the courts decided that the Second Amendment refers to the right to keep and bear arms only in connection with a state militia. Even more telling, in its legal challenges to federal firearms laws like the Brady Law and the assault weapons ban, the National Rifle Association makes no mention of the Second Amendment. Indeed, the National Rifle Association has not challenged a gun law on Second Amendment grounds in several years.

The Renegade Decision: U.S. v. Emerson

On March 30, 1999, U.S. District Judge for Northern Texas Sam R. Cummings restored a domestic abuser's firearms, citing the Second Amendment as guaranteeing an individual right to keep and bear arms. This decision flies in the face of years of precedence and jurisprudence and can only be viewed as a renegade decision. In his opinion, Judge Cummings was unable to follow usual judicial practice and cite legal precendents that undergird his decision because there are none. This ruling has been appealed and since that decision, two federal courts, including a higher Circuit court, have ruled that the Second Amendment does not guarantee an individual right to keep and bear arms (Gillespie v. City of Indianapolis).


As for the meaning of militias try this.

When the U.S. Constitution was adopted, each of the states had its own "militia" ? a military force comprised of ordinary citizens serving as part-time soldiers. The militia was "well-regulated" in the sense that its members were subject to various requirements such as training, supplying their own firearms, and engaging in military exercises away from home. It was a form of compulsory military service intended to protect the fledgling nation from outside forces and from internal rebellions.

The "militia" was not, as the gun lobby will often claim, simply another word for the populace at large. Indeed, membership in the 18th century militia was generally limited to able-bodied white males between the ages of 18 and 45 ? hardly encompassing the entire population of the nation.

The U.S. Constitution established a permanent professional army, controlled by the federal government. With the memory of King George III's troops fresh in their minds, many of the "anti-Federalists" feared a standing army as an instrument of oppression. State militias were viewed as a counterbalance to the federal army and the Second Amendment was written to prevent the federal government from disarming the state militias.



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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1235182 - 01/20/03 09:33 PM (21 years, 8 months ago)

Keep trying Al and try reading the decisions you quote. I have. The entire thing, not the Brady Bunch version of Cliff notes.

And it's funny that even after I pasted the link (in a prvious post) and a portion of US vs Miller right here, and after you criticize the decision, you keep using it as your proof.

Not even up to your usual sad efforts.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (01/20/03 09:35 PM)

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1235500 - 01/21/03 03:28 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

In other words you lost.

One renegade decision does not a debate make.


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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1236719 - 01/21/03 11:20 AM (21 years, 8 months ago)

What a surprise to see that you see it that way.

Near as I can tell, no-one here has lost a debate to you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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