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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: GazzBut]
    #1224872 - 01/16/03 08:59 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

If you look you'll find several studies showing gun crime drops markedly in states where concealed carry laws are passed. Florida is a good example of this. A few years back carry permits in Florida were not easy to get. The Florida legislature passed what can be called "must issue" carry permit laws. The crime rate dropped. It's also easy to find stats showing the states that don't let you carry concealed have the highest gun crime rate.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1225142 - 01/17/03 01:30 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Ive changed my mind, I think guns should be legal. You cant really prohibit anything anyway, its just the same with drugs. So perhaps it is better out in the open, then maybe we can start moving on from the fear and paranoia that fuels the desire to carry them or we can have ourselves a good ole shoot out! :grin: 


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: GazzBut]
    #1226359 - 01/17/03 09:30 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fear and paranoia



I don't carry a gun because of fear and paranoia. I can one because it's a tool. Sort of like carrying a jack in case you get a flat. I'm 45 and have been carrying since I was 21. Never pulled it, hope to never need to. However, you can't use what you don't have with you.

Besides that, thanks to the 2nd ammendment.... I can!

And one of the best reason for gun ownership, they're fun.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1226865 - 01/17/03 12:39 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

And one of the best reason for gun ownership, they're fun.


I'm just curious how a gun is fun, I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I've just never owned, shot, or even held a gun, and I'm wondering what could be fun about a leathal weapon?
Quote:

Besides that, thanks to the 2nd ammendment.... I can!


Just because you can, does it mean you should?

I don't have a real problem with guns and gun owners, besides the fact that most seem to ignorant to admit that guns can and do cause problems, but if you are responsible with your firearms, more power (quite literally) to you.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Skikid16]
    #1226925 - 01/17/03 01:09 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

How can a gun, in itself cause any problems? Likewise, how can a drug cause a problem on its own? These are inanimate objects we're talking about, not anti-huminoid robotic destroyers.

If you were to go shooting, 99-1 chance you'd love it. I really can't think of anything I enjoy more than going up into the mountains and shooting.

Edited by stonedfish (01/17/03 01:10 PM)

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1227570 - 01/17/03 06:37 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Besides that, thanks to the 2nd ammendment

Still pushing this load luvvie? The 2nd amendment says nothing of the sort. Even the NRA knows that.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1227594 - 01/17/03 06:47 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Not according to this guy, gun crimes have gone up....

Try and put it into perspective. Gun crime in the UK accounts for around 0.003% of all crimes the police deal with. When you have a handful of crimes a year it's easy to produce alarming statistics. If 4 people die one year and there's a drug war the next year and 8 people die you could produce statistics saying "There has been a 100% rise in gun crime", however the average person would still be more likely to die from a meteorite falling on their head than being a victim of gun crime.

Legalise drugs and see what happens to gun crime when the gangsters have nothing left to shoot each other for.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,871132,00.html


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1227603 - 01/17/03 06:54 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

however the average person would still be more likely to die from a meteorite falling on their head than being a victim of gun crime.




Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Skikid16]
    #1227844 - 01/17/03 09:14 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

In Britain there are usually something less than 30 gun murders a year. There are 60 million people in the country. The odds are pretty astronomical.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1227864 - 01/17/03 09:44 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Not as astronomical "getting hit in the head by a meteorite".


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1227950 - 01/18/03 12:31 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Stop the lying Al. I've given you links to show you. I can't help it if you either haven't read them or just simply can't understand them.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1227959 - 01/18/03 12:42 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

No shit Alpo? Gun crime would go down if drugs were legal? Think that one up all by yourself did you? It would also go down if you could walk up to a pile of money or jewels and just help yourself. It would also go down if the good fairy came down and waved her magic wand and peace spread out across the world.

The fact is that the great experiment in gun control in your country has not, and will not, bring about the hoped for decrease in gun crime.

Quote:

the average person would still be more likely to die from a meteorite falling on their head than being a victim of gun crime.



Maybe in the 25 or so % of the globe Great Britian controlled.
Care to back that up with a link?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (01/18/03 12:44 AM)

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OfflineViveka
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: amanita3]
    #1228628 - 01/18/03 09:09 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

"In 1998 the Rockefeller family was worth $11.48 trillion, and the Rothschild family was worth over $100 trillion. When they need money, they just print it. They create their money out of thin air, and it is backed by nothing. You cannot trade it in for gold or silver. "

I've got news for you pal. The gold standard went away a long time ago. The wealth in this country is all based on debt, between people and banks, and banks and the government.
The Rockefellers and Rothschild's have more clever ways of obtaining and keeping wealth than just printing more money. If they were to do this, the value of their money (and everyones) would decrease.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: amanita3]
    #1229038 - 01/18/03 12:17 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

In 1998 the Rockefeller family was worth $11.48 trillion, and the Rothschild family was worth over $100 trillion.



Bullshit. The richest man in the world is Bill Gates. He had close to 100 BILLION, sadly for him he has sunk to the 60 BILLION range. (poor bastard) NO-ONE has a trillion dollars. No family has a trillion dollars.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1229858 - 01/18/03 06:57 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I've given you links to show you

You've really got to start reading something other than NRA sites. Even the NRA arn't stupid enough to take their interpretation of the second amendment to the courts because they know they would lose.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1230138 - 01/18/03 11:19 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Alpo, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.... so stay thirsty Al.

It has been taken to court. I provided the link to the decisions themselves. The actual written decisions by the courts, not to an NRA site.

Quit lying. For someone so quick to call others liars, you don't seem to mind doing it yourself.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1230226 - 01/19/03 01:31 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Nope, you found one redneck judge who went against the supreme court as far as I can remember. Certainly the NRA have never even attempted to take the second amendment to the supreme court as they know they havn't got a chance in hell of getting their interpretation taken seriously.

Try again  :smirk:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1230231 - 01/19/03 01:36 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Then you remember wrong.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1230361 - 01/19/03 04:09 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

You saying the supreme court agree with the NRA's interpretation of the second amendment?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: FACTS THAT PUT THIS WHOLE MESS INTO PERSPECTIVE [Re: Xlea321]
    #1230393 - 01/19/03 04:43 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I'm saying the ONLY ruling the Supreme Court has made AT ALL on the second ammendment was in US vs Miller, in which the decision was that SAWED OFF SHOTGUNS had no military use at the time and as such was not covered by the second ammendment. This decision is plainly wrong anyway, however they did not rule on the whether the ammendment applied to people or to the states. They have not made any other second ammendment rulings that I'm aware of. If you know of any post the link so I can read it.

Also, most constitutional scholars agree the second ammendment is an individual right.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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