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hermeticfool
Stranger



Registered: 11/21/09
Posts: 117
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Shad0w]
#12155669 - 03/06/10 07:24 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shad0w said:
Quote:
EyelessVagabond said: With only those two options I can't really answer your poll. I believe in emergent consciousness; as someone joked up above maybe some collection of stars is consciousness or even the whole universe at some level? I don't even know if I'd classify this as God though and surely wouldn't say it has an all powerful influence; still bound by known physical laws and such.
I believe in the possibility of a universal sort of intelligence, though doubt it cares about humanity as a whole. I equate it to a person caring when a neuron dies in their brain. Still plenty left and overall intellect stays intact.
So am I monotheistic or ashiest? I'll likely change my mind within a couple months so why's it matter.
I voted for Jehovah and His Son Jesus. 
It was either that, or vote for being a close-minded hippy. 
I actually dis-like the poll questions, I feel it has a biased slant against a SPECIFIC monotheistic religion. Why?
The answer to that is probably more revealing than anything that could be gained from finding out what drugged out forum junkies think about it.
Why not Islam? Are we sure Budhhism isnt monotheistic.
"we are all one and One is Divinity" Something like that?
How come "self-spiritual" and atheist people get the same footing......
Now, I believe in G-d. But, dont even think for a minute that you know what that means.
Put simply, You dont know me homies, and there is either: One Judge , or... no judge.
( slowly draws his pistols casually from his waistband )
And we can play that game anyway you want to...... I am not that particular.
* end scene * 
And even tho. I believe in a higher power than the human self.......
Doesnt mean I am not critical at all.
In fact, My strictly skeptical side, which will freely and happily allow the non-existence of anything supernatural, I am actually slightly disturbed that, "self-spiritual" folks get to be checked in the same catagory as an open minded yet skeptical nontheistic person who relies on the scientific method to divine truth from the universe.
I demand you give up your boxed in thinking and open your mind to the newer possibility that an atheist and a self spiritual person are not always on mutal footing against the major monotheistic religions, and specifically christianity.
There is no magic in the mushroom.........
It is a chemical.
A chemical that has evolved, just like everything else in the universe. A chemical that has a distinct and profound effect on the human brain. It is hard not to believe in magic when tripping..... Earth shattering, in the sense that up until now, you thought the world was everything you already thought it was, and now you know that it isnt.
So, while I dont believe in magic myself....... I do understand why someone would think it is , and have no problem using the term to express an idea.
And , really, it is magical. Pure unadulterated energy of the universe and begining of time, propelling life forward in a frantic race to escape death....................
Even agriculture wasnt a realistic social option , until the sun gods came along. 

Anyway....... I am too high, and dont remember if I had a 'point' or not.
This is one of my favorite posts ever. Don't know if buy all of it, but it is absolutely engaging. Thanks for this....
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civil twilight

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 512
Loc: Wisconsin
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users *DELETED* [Re: Believe]
#12155879 - 03/06/10 08:04 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by civil twilightReason for deletion: blah blah blah
-------------------- "You dropped your pocket..."
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4896744
Small Town Girl

Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 12 years, 6 days
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: civil twilight]
#12156209 - 03/06/10 09:10 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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My views that could be considered "spiritual" are pretty uncommon from what I have seen. I believe in the Universe as god in a way. I am like a Pantheist. I believe that everything can have a physical explanation. I also believe that much can be learned with psychedelics and even some other drugs. In a way i believe in reincarnation due to the fact that our energy is constantly recycled when things die and are born. However I don't believe that my conscience or "soul" will be preserved. This part i am more unsure of. I am not completely against the Universe having some sort of soul or my soul continuing. I just think it is unlikely. Lastly, i would say that there is a greater organization to everything than we currently know.
As for christianity, a good deal of christians i have met are very nice people who do a lot for their community. I believe the religion itself is rather ridiculous and if the bible was to be taken at face value it would be pretty horrible. However with most christians this is not the case. An example would be my grandparents. They are extremely devout protestants and some of the nicest and most loving people i know.
I could be considered an atheist. I think most people would classify my as that. It just seems that a lot of atheists are militant in the way that they denounce religion. They can tend to become full of themselves for having the simple reasoning skills it takes to be able to reject the teachings of most religion.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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ZenClarity
SpiralOfChange



Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 951
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Believe]
#12156230 - 03/06/10 09:15 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Believe said: In debate, the burden of proof is on those who are claiming the statement to be true. So athiests really have nothing to prove, although they have science to back them a lot of the way. And the only proof christians REALLY have is personal (objective) experiences and a book written by people who didnt even exist until 100's of years after the events that might have occured. It's easy to point to a book and say its "proof". But there are no other written accounts of the time period of jesus to confirm anything that the bible has to say. Don't you think if he was curing people and bringing people back from the dead it would be in more first-hand accounts?
I stated Christianity only as an example.. I refer to all religions of the world. There are many new things science is discovering every day, to say it doesn't exist just because it isn't scientifically proven is a cop out. Just as following some old philosophical manual is a cop out as well. Yes, I understand the scientific theory of evolution pretty much shits on creationism.... but intelligent design isn't ruled out of the equation.
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Odum
stress of babylon


Registered: 09/01/04
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: ZenClarity]
#12157046 - 03/07/10 12:14 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was raised a christian and had to go to church for my first 15 years. I havent believed in 'god' exactly in about 7 years. Im 22 now. I still have some desire in my head to want to believe that im not some random animal on a random planet. I dont know if its from me being indoctrinated or what.
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Kanker
Hides in tall grass



Registered: 07/16/07
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Odum]
#12157545 - 03/07/10 05:18 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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whoa whoa whoa... technically, the burden of proof doesn't exist, because a person's spirituality is their own, and neither lack of god nor presence of one is provable through any scientific means, and were proof to be presentable, it would be just as impossible to argue against the evidence. A theory that cannot be tested against is nothing.
Science does not seek to limit knowledge by defining the world, it claims to only accept what it knows and challenges what it doesn't know, and what is accepted as 'truth' constantly. Evolution theory is the commonly accepted 'knowledge', but Science doesn't just say "that's it: it's evolution, not God/creationism", only ignorant people would assume that by putting two pieces of the puzzle together you see the whole picture.
Also, I find your poll pretty shallow. Only two options? pfft. It dosen't even discuss spirituality, rather it asks only if you believe in monotheism or atheism...
-------------------- I'm ahead, I'm advanced I am the first mammal to make plans, yeah I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher 2010, watch it go to fire. It's evolution baby. -Pearl Jam
Edited by Kanker (03/07/10 05:20 AM)
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bazza
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/09
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Kanker]
#12157585 - 03/07/10 06:13 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am god.
and so are you
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curenado
73rd Man



Registered: 04/01/03
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Loc: North Central Arkansas
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: bazza]
#12157607 - 03/07/10 06:27 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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<<To me the trick of religious difference is encountering all people as 'just' people, in the thick of their own existences; if you start identifying them with their institutional allegiances first and their individual character second you'll quickly find yourself led astray. >>
This was really good. I look, crazy as it may sound, at everybody as their own testimony. Each person is their own "religion" and has to be, even if that religion is "I believe nothing that I can't see and touch". Because that too seems very sensible after it's fashion. Maybe what I mean is that no one's mouth is big enough to utter the whole thing but if you snatch people and hold them up to your ear you can sometimes hear the ocean...(heh) Awkward things to try and describe really...
-------------------- Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment! "The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...." "When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"
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Believe
Stranger

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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Kanker]
#12157922 - 03/07/10 08:52 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kanker said: whoa whoa whoa... technically, the burden of proof doesn't exist, because a person's spirituality is their own, and neither lack of god nor presence of one is provable through any scientific means, and were proof to be presentable, it would be just as impossible to argue against the evidence. A theory that cannot be tested against is nothing.
Science does not seek to limit knowledge by defining the world, it claims to only accept what it knows and challenges what it doesn't know, and what is accepted as 'truth' constantly. Evolution theory is the commonly accepted 'knowledge', but Science doesn't just say "that's it: it's evolution, not God/creationism", only ignorant people would assume that by putting two pieces of the puzzle together you see the whole picture.
Also, I find your poll pretty shallow. Only two options? pfft. It dosen't even discuss spirituality, rather it asks only if you believe in monotheism or atheism...
First off, the burden of proof does exist if christians insist to try to convert people to their religion. If they are going to try to convert perople, obviously they have the burden of proof. And no, it is easy to argue against so called "evidence". Christians have been pointing to things in the bible and claiming its true and using it to say its all true, for example Noahs Ark, and science has proven it untrue. Hence, making the infallible work inspired by God, wrong.
Second off, I only put two options because its the only thing im interested in investigating. I only want to know who believes in god and who doesnt. I could care less about the details regarding it or what EXACTLY your belief is, the survey is for purposes to answer one simple question, not to breakdown every world religion.
--------------------
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Edited by Believe (03/07/10 08:58 AM)
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Shad0w
In trouble again.


Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 3,639
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Believe]
#12158143 - 03/07/10 10:00 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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So you sponser the new world order? 
All we are is data to be processed and assimilated into various prospective groupings for the structured re-engineering of our entire species towards a more domesticated stock.
To what end, this beutiful anomaly? What hath science wrought?
Quote:
but if you snatch people and hold them up to your ear you can sometimes hear the ocean...(heh) Awkward things to try and describe really...
I heard ya. Good descriptions really.
-------------------- Nothing I write on Shroomery's message boards or in private messages are true. I am fucking crazy and I make all this shit up because I can. [quote]sploogepanz55 said: ^^^ haha what a bummer, shad0w. All this talk about dying. [/quote] [quote]psychoanomaly said: And so, I feel your intolerance and phobia towards rectal administration of psychedelics is a violation of the music of the spheres [/quote] [quote]shroom_sandwich said: I could have sworn I seen a thread about a guy saying his dog killed the neighbors chickens earlier....[/quote]
Edited by Shad0w (03/07/10 10:00 AM)
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Believe]
#12158241 - 03/07/10 10:25 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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poll fail
100 mg pharm grade STALamine
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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EyelessVagabond
Stranger



Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 159
Loc: Bellona
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: deCypher]
#12158400 - 03/07/10 10:58 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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People get too hung up on this. Always the argument that Christians, Muslims, Buddhist and whoever else you can think of are anti-science, anti-logic superstitious infants. On the other side is the pure logical and accepting atheist genius.
I mean really, how many above quote science as the anti-thesis of religion but have little to no knowledge of science. If I ask how do you know atoms exist, maybe you can quote the gold foil experiment and say hey there's proof, but it really is just a matter of faith in the scientist, you've likely never conducted it and only barely understand the science behind it.
Don't mean to bash anyone or seem high strung, my point is in science their is an abundance of loop holes and gaps to this day, beyond what we individually think we know (quantum physics, chemistry, biology, etc.). We, as society, may pretend we know everything but their is plenty missing and more than enough mystery remaining.
Quit quoting science as proof of no God, their is no relation. Science can also not prove that you are a couscous entity with emotions. As much as we pretend outside the fact, science can no more prove "you" and you subjective experience exist than it can prove God exist and without that philosophical/religious mantra that "you" does not exist the question remains.
End Rant
-------------------- Do what you will, this world's a fiction And is made up of contradiction -William Blake
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Shad0w
In trouble again.


Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 3,639
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: EyelessVagabond]
#12159778 - 03/07/10 03:51 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hm....
But maybe, "you" not existing is easier to swallow than a magic boogie man in the sky.
I think religion has done a lot of harm.... But, I dont think this says anything specific about the Big Question.
I think religion is an excellent scapegoat for our behavior as a culture on this planet , at least up until now.
Religion doesnt cause war.
Wicked people do.
Religion is a great political tool. God is on our side!
Religion is also a fantastic excuse for our own behavior and that of its adherants.
But..... religion.
A man seeking relationship with the Divine...... Does not cause war.
Science isnt an anti-thesis to anything except willful ignorance.
People cling to science like they do to their dying gods.
Does it make you sleep better at night to know that all the world is in its place?
What if it were, that someday , you awoke to find the end of everything you know, All of a sudden, none of the pieces fit anymore. Nothing was the same as it was.
Why would you be in a hurry to put all the pieces back?
And why, for when the universe has been destroyed with you in it....... What else is there to fear at all?
Sometimes, 'Life' seem like an honest inquiry which ends in a malicious joke.
-------------------- Nothing I write on Shroomery's message boards or in private messages are true. I am fucking crazy and I make all this shit up because I can. [quote]sploogepanz55 said: ^^^ haha what a bummer, shad0w. All this talk about dying. [/quote] [quote]psychoanomaly said: And so, I feel your intolerance and phobia towards rectal administration of psychedelics is a violation of the music of the spheres [/quote] [quote]shroom_sandwich said: I could have sworn I seen a thread about a guy saying his dog killed the neighbors chickens earlier....[/quote]
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ZenClarity
SpiralOfChange



Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 951
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Shad0w]
#12159838 - 03/07/10 04:04 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not to mention on the quantum level... there are things that scientist are baffled by. Something that should be solved on a mathematical level is altered simply by a shift in conscience. In theory this makes some of reality subject to a level of conscience focused rather than scientific fact. I don't believe we are even close to understanding what's really taking place on a scientific level.. and so we're left with what we do know about it.....
Either way... the books still being written..
There is no absolute truth found anywhere currently... thus making it somewhat of a pointless argument...
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Kanker
Hides in tall grass



Registered: 07/16/07
Posts: 738
Loc: On a Long dead-heart.
Last seen: 13 years, 2 days
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Believe]
#12160469 - 03/07/10 06:07 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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So because someone is trying to convert or persuade someone then there MUST be a burdeon of proof to prove whether that belief is incorrect or correct? When someone says "i like pizza" to which another replies "hamburgers are better" do you tell them to prove it?
also, there are numerous major religions which are non judeo-christian and aren't monotheistic, so basically you just want to see if people are christian or not. Pretty weak poll, as stated.
-------------------- I'm ahead, I'm advanced I am the first mammal to make plans, yeah I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher 2010, watch it go to fire. It's evolution baby. -Pearl Jam
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ZenClarity
SpiralOfChange



Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 951
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Kanker]
#12160527 - 03/07/10 06:22 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I see what you're saying... It's just that some... not most.. but some.. try and push it on you a little to much for my liking.
I remember one coming to my door one time, asking if id have been saved and so forth. I basically told them that i didn't really believe in christianity... and so they assumed for whatever reason I was an evolutionist/atheist. So they proceeded in saying something to the effect of. " You don't really believe we came from monkeys do you?" I think my response was "You don't really believe we came from some magic man in the sky do you?" We all see things as we will... but yeah.. if you come to my door trying to convince me of such.. you'll need more than what you've been taught by your philosophy book.
So I can see what you're both saying... Like I said.. some of the coolest most honest people I know are christian. They leave me to my beliefs... and I leave them to theirs.
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Supreme Slammage
Time Traveler



Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 1,666
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Believe]
#12160563 - 03/07/10 06:29 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Believe said: Greetings shroomers,
I am here to take a poll of you self-thinking individuals on what your personal belief is on religion. In this poll I would like it if you could pick if you believe there is a central "god" out there (Doesnt have to be the christian god)or if infact there is no overbearing "God" watching over us. This can include things like Buddhism, Atheism, Self-Spirituality, etc. As long as you dont believe in basic christian/monotheistic teachings.
Im just personally curious about religious belief differences between hallucinogenic drugs using individuals and those who dont. Your participation in this poll would be greatly appreciated so i can further myself in discovering what I believe to be reality.
This poll is invalid!!
STAL STAL STAL STAL STAL STAL STAL STAL STAL STAL
-------------------- Solar Layering METHOD!!! TO INFINITY AND BEYOND
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ILoveThomYorke
Oh Audrey!



Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 744
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Supreme Slammage]
#12170518 - 03/09/10 12:47 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't think they're necessary or even of great benefit to everyone - but they definitely do their job. The three major Abrahamic traditions are some of the most widespread and studied in the world, and I don't think it's a coincidence that they've taken strong roots in Western Capitalist societies in a way that some other major world religions (Particularly the Major Eastern and Indian faiths) can't; at least not in our culture, not with our linguistics.
I want to make it clear that I do not prescribe to any of the three major Abrahamic faiths, though I've studied all of them to at least a small degree. I feel their cultural achievements speak for themselves and their widespread devout following (more devout, I expect, than some of you will ever know) is a testament to the usefulness of the faith. Dogmatic? Maybe. Oppressive? Probably not. Clearly the Church has done things in the past that some find indefensible but it is not the duty of (certainly) Modern Christians to defend the churches actions, nor should they be apologists; Rather it is their duty to receive the tradition as they do and try and make the best of it. Repentance is a continual act, and likewise, the Church is in a state of constant flux.
It shouldn't be a secret to any of you that the church has changed an awful awful lot and this change is still going on today. If you're of the opinion that the modern Church is still the monster of times past then chances are you need to do some more reading on the subject; such views are as anachronistic as cowering in fear at the mention of 'Big Tobacco' (re: one of the most tax-subjugated industries in the world). In particular do some reading on Martin Luther and the English reformation; There is a common misconception in my country regarding Christianity that the English reformation took place 'Because the King wanted a divorce'. Not true; there are a whole world of cultural and political reasons why reformation was utterly necessary, the King getting his leg over coming pretty far down the list.
I'm conscious of the fact I'm rambling so I'll try and come to a stop here with this; If not for the European reformations we'd still be talking like fucking Chaucer OR living in some batshit monastery as celibate monks for all our days. I say this not as a Christian but as an intellectual - Christianity has done you tremendous favors as well as misgivings. It's not perfect, but nothing is.
"...with my whole heart" "White as snow" "Twinkle in his eye" "as good as dead" "The root of the matter" "eaten sour grapes" "A man after his own heart..." "The skin of my teeth" "How the mighty have fallen" "Fools paradise" "Measure for measure" "Chop and change" "put down" "let at liberty" "fell into a trance"
... just some of the many English phrases you might well use on a daily basis and can thank the Vernacular bible for. 
Peace.
-------------------- I M A B I R T H D A Y C A N D L E I N A C I R C L E O F B L A C K G I R LS F A L L E N O F F T H E B A C K O F A G I A N T B I R D T H A T S B E E N C A R R Y I N G M E F I N A L L Y I M F R E E F R O M A L L T H E W E I G H T I V E B E E N C A R R Y I N G A T T H E B O T T O M O F A G I G A N T I C C R A T E R A N A R M C H A I R C A L L S T O Y O U
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Shad0w
In trouble again.


Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 3,639
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: ILoveThomYorke]
#12171455 - 03/09/10 02:59 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Christianity has done you tremendous favors as well as misgivings. It's not perfect, but nothing is.
"...with my whole heart" "White as snow" "Twinkle in his eye" "as good as dead" "The root of the matter" "eaten sour grapes" "A man after his own heart..." "The skin of my teeth" "How the mighty have fallen" "Fools paradise" "Measure for measure" "Chop and change" "put down" "let at liberty" "fell into a trance"
... just some of the many English phrases you might well use on a daily basis and can thank the Vernacular bible for.
LoL
I like it.
There is a bright side to everything.
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