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OfflineMephistophelian
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Fridge Spawn
    #12128442 - 03/02/10 03:09 PM (14 years, 2 days ago)

I put spawn in my fridge of a variety of species several months ago. Now its not exactly ideal form of having things work...but there was some issues that came up long ago and didn't permit me growing so I just stored the spawn away in hopes of pulling it out and using it again.

Now, the results have been mixed. I have my thoughts and theories but I wanted to bump it off you guys so I don't let paranoia get the better of me. I had a spawn bag of oysters sit there for a while and I used it, it ended up stalling in the bag (used sawdust since straw wasn't an option).

I have some H. Abeitis that was only about 2-3 months old, which hasn't moved. My enoki (two seperate jars) 1 took off like a banshee and is very healthy where the other one is slower and kind of hit and miss at the moment.

I also had a few other species colonize to about 80% mark on some pasteurized sub only to stall miserably.

My guess is senescence (of sorts) since the subs smells exactly like they should. This sound familiar with anyone who has refrigerated spawn before? The lids were still the same as before (filter + holes), so I know they dried out to some extent...but by the time I had thought of it, it would have been pointless to try to fix it (perhaps saranwrap the jar? idk)


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OfflineHumbled
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #12132398 - 03/03/10 02:35 AM (14 years, 2 days ago)

It does sound a bit like senescence. I am having the same stalling happen with my Blue Oysters right now on WBS.

Moreover, I think it's just the variability in genetics.

The LC's I made with this sporeworks strain took off really fast. Then I PC'd the same batch of WBS in 2 mycobags and Quart Jars. Well, the mycobags lit up and the quarts stalled out for the most part with some done the same time as the bags.

Oysters seem to be like that. At least for me anyways.

But seeing as you are having the same problems with several of your species, that cant be the case. Something else has to be the constant. I'm just thinking out loud here I guess.

To me, this either has to do with the temperature your spawn was stored at, your recipe/procedures for substrate, or just straight up old spawn.

Hope this helped a little.:sunny:


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Invisiblefrankenstoen

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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: Humbled]
    #12132615 - 03/03/10 05:00 AM (14 years, 2 days ago)

Stored spawn will always be weaker, as the mycelium has entered a "rest state", and stopped it's explosive cell division. Nutrients have been used up, and waste products have accumulated.

Stalling after showing some growth suggests perhaps a lack of fresh air - low oxygen and elevated waste gasses. Or maybe the substrate isn't completely sterile, and competitor organisms are able to compete against the weakened spawn. (Just a guess.)

Enoki will continue to grow and even fruit inside of a refrigerator, so perhaps it isn't surprising that it would still perform well.

My own experiments with stored spawn are quite limited but in general it has always been much more slow to colonize than fresh spawn.

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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: frankenstoen]
    #12132698 - 03/03/10 05:57 AM (14 years, 2 days ago)

I figured alot of those things you guys mentioned as well. But, it spans across both sterilized subs & pasteurized subs, different types of materials, different species, so it definitely feels like its a matter of either drying out because it didn't colonize fast enough or it was just so tired from being in the fridge that it doesn't want to finish colonizing.

The grains could have been dry enough to soak up some of the moisture in the sub too. All in all...I'm going to avoid stored spawn from now on and try to keep to fresh stuff.


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Invisibleratdog
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #12133062 - 03/03/10 08:39 AM (14 years, 1 day ago)

interesting!

i do this on a regular basis with Shiitake and oyster.

in the case of the oyster i see the result of what i consider infection on jars that do not proceed fast. but in the end of a month in storage the oyster does win 90% of the time. the others that do not make it i chuck as i feel it might be yeast. i still need to culture the unused sub to find out for shore but it has to be something like that.

the Shiitake does well just a bit slower in the cold. and i sometimes get the "yeast" thing too but not as often.

i use Millet and sun seed in spawn jars.

now i must say i have not seen any stalling etc but i use only the 100% jars and they seem to take off fast for me.

it might be that my genetics are good but the Shiitake i do not know about as it came from the store.

again i still need to test the uncolonized seed by culture to find the true reason but it has not become that great a problem for me. i do like the spawn i get from the fridge and find it to show less contam down the line.

i read a book ???? which book i do not remember but the author spoke of growing mushrooms in the cold months and found the same as i have that contam is driven way down.


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some people just don't get it:spank:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11241796
so here is a video or two or three for you guys:rolleyes:

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OfflineNeo Mithrandil
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: ratdog]
    #12133858 - 03/03/10 11:37 AM (14 years, 1 day ago)

I've used oyster spawn after as much as 6 months in the fridge, it started to grow again just fine...

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Offlinesolumvita
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: Neo Mithrandil]
    #12134345 - 03/03/10 12:42 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

i have had varying results, sometime there is no discernible difference after 6 months and other times, it is like it has hit a brick wall and just will not grow.


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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: solumvita]
    #12135229 - 03/03/10 03:11 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

glad i ran across this. i've got some overgrown oyster and shitake spawn bags i just put in the fridge and 2 more oyster bags that are 95% that will go in the fridge tomorrow. i'm going out of town for a week or so. the first 2 got way over colonized. the shitake on WBS is actually browning and blistering + 2 jars are actually fruiting


those invitro fruits are pretty big now. didn't thik that was possible.:shrug:

i thought i'd get to spawn something that could colonize while i was away and don't wan't the next 2 to get that far since i probobly wont get to anything for another few weeks.

i'll post some results here after i get going again.:flowerchild:


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #12136298 - 03/03/10 05:29 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

Are you using a frost free refrigerator? There is more temperature variation with them than with those that are not.

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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: falcon]
    #12136461 - 03/03/10 05:51 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

Honestly I'm not sure...I do know that I have condensation build up and from time to time I've had frosty syringes if there in the top back area of the fridge.

Would fluctuating temperatures make a difference?


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #12136707 - 03/03/10 06:22 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

Yep, depending on how well you had the jars insulated from moisture loss and temperature fluctuation, could effect how well you're spawn keeps.

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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: falcon]
    #12136850 - 03/03/10 06:39 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

i actually put mine in a plastic bag just for protection from contamination since i haven't got a dedicated myco fridge yet. mephistophilian, are you using your regular fridge or a seperate one?

will the bag help with moisture loss?

also i won't be home opening it all the time. i guess i dedicated fridge will keep the temp flux down.

btw, what temp settings are best? i was thinking like 40f, or is it species specific?

sorry, not trying to thread jack here, just learnin' with ya.

:flowerchild:


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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: artizen]
    #12137263 - 03/03/10 07:38 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

No no, ask away artizen!

Regular fridge...so just regular use. Using a plastic bag would definitely help with moisture. Good idea.


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OfflineTexasMyco
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #12137846 - 03/03/10 08:56 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

I used a wine chiller for my spawn, and Ive had success with jars that have been in for over 6 months.

It all depends on substrate,water content and strain

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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: artizen]
    #12140197 - 03/04/10 05:19 AM (14 years, 1 day ago)

40 sounds good, I don't know the best temperatures. A plastic bag is good, as is some insulation around the jar.

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Invisibleratdog
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: falcon]
    #12140410 - 03/04/10 07:28 AM (14 years, 1 day ago)

i also mix up 15 to 20 bags of sub and store them in there too till i have time to pc them .

i have some going on 2 months now we will see if they make it to the pc.


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some people just don't get it:spank:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11241796
so here is a video or two or three for you guys:rolleyes:

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: ratdog]
    #12143006 - 03/04/10 03:52 PM (14 years, 16 hours ago)

That has to be getting stinky. Sometimes I'll store substrate in the freezer.

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Invisibleratdog
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: falcon]
    #12147121 - 03/05/10 07:19 AM (14 years, 37 minutes ago)

if its stinky get rid of it


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some people just don't get it:spank:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11241796
so here is a video or two or three for you guys:rolleyes:

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OfflineBuckeye Oysters
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #12148306 - 03/05/10 12:28 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Never keep spawn in the fridge for later use.  It is bad practice.  Condensation will promote bacterial growth which may not be apparent but will cause problems down the road.  As they say,... use it or lose it.


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Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise.  Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated.  For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.

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OfflineHumbled
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Re: Fridge Spawn [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #12151766 - 03/06/10 12:21 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm with Buckeye on that one guys. I've had way too many bad scenes with old spawn soaking, sitting, and/or forgotten that went south really fast.

I am quite the stoned subject though hehe:tongue2:

I will make up some sub from time to time and use it as I go. Usually within a couple days though and I have never had bad results that way.


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